Yorkshire Traction
1961
Leyland Titan PD2 
Roe H35/28F

Here we are in Huddersfield again on the road where all the non Corporation buses had there terminus, although the odd one did sneak in now and then. I think it was Lord Street and the building on the left is the Parish Church, this is where I think all the buses to surrounding towns i.e. Wakefield, Dewsbury and Barnsley for example started there journey.
Anyway this is a very interesting bus, I have titled it as a Leyland Titan PD2 as it was listed in my ‘British Bus Fleets’ book but actually it was a re-bodied Leyland Tiger PS2/1.
I found in the Roe body list on the ‘Bus Lists on the web’ website that the original Leyland Tiger registration was EVH 211, knowing that VH was an Huddersfield registration I thought I would try to find out who owned it originally. I ruled out the corporation as they were more into AEC single deckers, no way would it be ex Hanson they would have re-bodied it for themselves several times. Then I remembered that Yorkshire Traction were part owners of the Huddersfield based County Motors, so onto the ‘Huddersfield PTG’ website and sure enough there it is EVH 211 fleet no 83 a 1949 Tiger PS2/1 with a Roe B34F body. If you would like to see what it looked like originally there is a link here you will have to scroll half way down the page to find it.

Tracky rebuilt and refurbished many PS1 and PS2 Tigers – so much that they merited new registration numbers. They were always referred to as Tigers, not Titans, after their rebuild and re-registration.

David Oldfield

YTC indeed did rebuild a significant number of obsolete half cab single decks, not all of which were for themselves – for example Stratford Blue had a similar bus to the one shown.
The chassis were, more accurately, built using PD2 chassis rails with running gear and other components salvaged from the donor vehicle.
YTC had an honourable tradition of rebuilding/re-bodying, as an example look no further than the preserved Tiger number 492 with its’ post-war body.
The last vehicles to be rebuilt were the three Leopards in NBC days – Numbers 153/4 and 386.
The first two were, in principle the same format as the PS2s i.e. the donor vehicles (ex Yorkshire Woollen in this case) were simply donors of components as the vehicles had updated chassis rails to PSU3E spec. They received Plaxton Supreme bodies with new registrations. Interestingly they had YTC chassis numbers. The 3rd vehicle in the exercise was very heavily rebuilt utilising the original chassis and body frame with updated running gear, it also gained a new registration.

Andrew

I worked for YTC when 153/4 were in for rebuild. The original chassis rails were retained, also no change to the O600 engine and keeping the original 4 speed gearbox made the outcome very predictable. There was no consideration given as to what type of service these buses would be used on. End result, underpowered and lack of top speed.

Trackyman

29/08/12 – 12:17

If ever there was a box on wheels then this was it It must be amongst the top three ugliest buses ever So bad were these that YTC adopted a modified livery for them to improve their looks but to no avail.
Similar conversion with NCME bodies were very attractive in contrast.

Chris Hough

29/08/12 – 14:55

I agree, Chris, but what are your other two? They certainly did Roe’s reputation no good at all. [People would see the name Roe, not realising it was a PRV design.]

David Oldfield

29/08/12 – 16:38

David my other personal two are Northern Counties Nottingham style bodies supplied to A1 Lytham and Stratford Blue and the ECW bodies supplied to South Yorks PTE complete with peaks fore and aft. I think Colchester also bought some like the Roe rebuilds how could they sink so low.

Chris Hough

29/08/12 – 18:56

I think the ECWs were, essentially, a SYPTE "design" improvement which (sorry, here I go again) ruined the balance and symmetry of the original. They also resulted in some atrocious blind spots which were cured by cutting holes in the pillars to provide better vision. Why on earth Colchester then bought them, goodness only knows. Did anyone else?

David Oldfield

13/05/15 – 06:50

I worked in the body shop at Yorkshire Traction for nearly 50 years from 1956. I had a hand in lifting the old single deck bodies off before the mechanics took over and did a full strip down. The Leyland PS1s were sent to Charles Roe and were fitted with light weight double deck bodies. They were fine for the first few years , but when the metalastic bearer end brackets became tired they creaked and groaned like an old sailing ship when cornering.The PD2s were sent to Northern Counties and the last batch went to Charles Roe, but were built to a design by Park Royal. They certainly looked a little strange. In later years on having passed my PSV all types driving test I had the pleasure of driving on service most of the Leyland conversions.I think of all the various types of buses I drove at Yorkshire Traction my favourite without doubt was the PD2.

Barrie Micklethwaite

18/06/15 – 16:45

To confirm the location, it is Lord Street, Huddersfield where most (all?) the Tracky and County routes terminated.

Tim Jackson

30/05/20 – 06:50

The comments about these re-bodied buses have made interesting reading, I drove these many times in the late 60`s and early 70`s, the crews called them "Banana Boxes", among other things, and you certainly needed to be aware of what type of bus you were driving when it came to these, the body was very light, and when fully loaded they rolled alarmingly on bends, the Vacuum braking system needed thought too, nothing seemed to happen for ages when you pressed the brake, so stopping accurately needed advance planning to allow for they delay, like all the PD2s and PD3s, being half cab they were warm in winter, during the summer it was nice to ride about with the sliding cab door open, and the full window clipped back over the bonnet to get plenty of air, If memory serves me the PD1s had hinged doors and had to stay closed, but you could still open the window.

busman25

Photograph by ‘unknown’ if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Leeds City Transport
1948
AEC Regent III
Roe H31/25R

This bus was one of quite a few Leeds City buses sold to or on loan to Halifax Corporation in 1964, they were never painted in the Halifax livery obviously not destined to stay long, in fact they were withdrawn one year later. I am not quite sure why they were at Halifax maybe they were short of buses as 20 Leyland Titan PD2s were delivered in 1965 if there is another reason let me know. I have headed this bus as Leeds and not Halifax as it actually kept its Leeds crest, I think only the fleet number and the destination blind changed.

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In 1964 Halifax acquired a small number of recently withdrawn AEC/Roe Regent IIIs from Leeds City Transport. This was to cover a delay in new chassis deliveries due to difficulties at the body builders Weymann who had a protracted strike at that time.

Chris Hough

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08/09/11 – 14:15

Hi Chris,
Did they call your dad Tommy, if so he had me as a trainee conductor in 1960, was his drivers name Burdett? I spent six years at Bramley as a conductor than driver. I became a ticket Inspector in 1968 and a depot inspector in 1969, spending my last 10 years as a depot inspector at Torre Road.
Happy days.

Ian Powell

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10/09/11 – 08:18

Hi Ian
My dad was called Tommy and he did spend many years working with a driver called Burdett whose first name was Arthur. Later he worked with Johnnie Calvert who was a character and drove the first one man double decker in 1969 His final driver was Dick Clough who was one of the last tram drivers. My dad retired in 1984 but sadly passed away in 1985 I still have his LCT cap badges and PSV conductors badge. Sadly as an outsider I feel that much of the fun enjoyed by bus people in my dad’s day no longer occurs.

Chris Hough

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04/11/11 – 07:12

Does anyone know where I can see or buy photos of Leeds City Transport Department buses in the BLUE livery which lasted certainly until about 1950, and possibly until the disappearance of the trams in the late 1950s? I particularly want a picture of a No 41 Colton bus. I live in Colton 1949-1951, and can still ‘smell’ the interior of these buses. I’ve sought these pictures in vain on all the websites I can find.

Harry Cockerham

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05/11/11 – 07:00

try the sales stalls at Dewsbury bus museum on 13.11.11

Ken Wragg

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05/11/11 – 07:01

The last buses delivered to LCT in the blue livery were twenty five Roe bodied AEC Regents numbered 601-625 NUB601 etc
Coloured pictures of Leeds buses in blue are not often seen There is a 1949 AEC Regent under restoration at Keighley bus museum which will carry blue livery Also there is a Roe PS1 in postwar blue and two pre-war AEC Regents in pre-war blue There are pictures of all these vehicles on www.sct61.org.uk

Chris Hough

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05/11/11 – 07:02

Chris Hough – after Arthur Burdett became an OMO driver he was also one of the first on the 49 route from Old Farnley to Hyde Park – and if I remember rightly he was also a TGWU official.

Chris Youhill

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10/11/11 – 17:05

Chris Hough – A thousand thanks for your response. I just can’t say how grateful I am, having found two photos of No. 41 Leeds buses in Colton on the website you gave details of. Will try to contact the copyright holders. Thank you again.

Harry Cockerham

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12/11/11 – 06:08

Glad to be of help Harry. The shot of the Leeds CVG6 in the snow at Colton was taken by me please feel free to use it for personnal use.

Chris Hough

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12/11/11 – 14:50

Ditto, Harry you can also use mine of VUG 547 in Colton for personal use.

Paul Haywood

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16/03/12 – 15:46

Leeds 441 is on a June 1965 tour, a few days before it was withdrawn from Leeds service. This tour took the bus and its enthusiast passengers to Bradford, then Halifax where it joined former Leeds 440 and a couple of others, in Halifax service as a stop-gap due to late delivery of new Halifax buses.
Photo I think is behind the railway arches at Stanningley Bottoms, parked just of Richardshaw Lane. I have similar photos in colour and black and white a spot of blind-twiddling was indulged in and quite a few tour participants had a go at photographing the bus here.
441 never became a Halifax bus; it was sold for scrap. Pity really. It and its sisters weren’t in bad shape considering their age-several years of life left in them for sure.

A. D. Young

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17/03/12 – 06:16

An interesting photo and if I may try to be helpful, certainly not critical, I can’t recognise the surroundings as being anywhere familiar near those railway arches. Top right of the view shows some multi storey flats nearby and I can’t think which they could be.

Chris Youhill

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17/03/12 – 07:07

The picture of 441 was taken on the spare parking ground at the top of the old Crossfield Bus Station in Halifax.

Philip Carlton

Rotherham Corporation
1964
AEC Renown 3B3RA
Roe H39/31F

There has also been a 1961 Rotherham Corporation Bridgemaster on site (link here) and the easy way to tell them apart was the front off side mudguard. It is easier to show than describe so the close up on the left is the Renown and the one on the right is the Bridgemaster.

          
As you can see the Renown’s mudguard follows through the body where as the Bridgemaster’s body goes over the mudguard and this was always the case with these two buses.
This Renown has the AEC code of 3B3RA which meant it had an AEC 9.6 litre six cylinder engine with a 4 speed synchromesh gearbox and air brakes. There was only one alternative the 3B2RA and the only difference was it had the Monocontrol direct selection gearbox. One thing I have noticed which I find strange is that this Renown’s drivers cab door slides backwards on the outside of the body to open it normally the door slid forwards inside the cab.

A full list of Renown codes can be seen here.

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If you look at the position of the cab door opening in relation to the front wheel it is obvious why the sliding door is external. If it was internal the wheel arch leaves nowhere for it to go, unless the door were made unreasonably shallow to pass over the top of the mudguard. For the same reason Lodekkas and other low-height buses always had hinged cab doors. The only exception seems to be the Albion Lowlander, as bodied by NCME and Alexander, where the coachbuilders raised the cab ceiling above the level of the main upper saloon floor (and raised the foremost seats to perch on top of the cab). That gave sufficient headroom to allow an internally-sliding cab door of conventional style.

David Jones

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I’m not absolutely certain but weren’t these the only Renowns bodied by Roe? (although obviously to a Park Royal design)

Ian Wild

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Yes, Ian. As was common in the sixties and seventies, whenever Park Royal was hard pressed, they subcontracted to their (smaller) Yorkshire partner. Geoff Lumb’s excellent book on C H Roe records in words and pictures that the Rotherham Renowns were built at Crossgates.

David Oldfield

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11/09/12 – 06:43

I think I have a photo somewhere in my possession that show an EYMS Renown at Roes too, or am I dreaming there?

Graham