Ideal Service (R Taylor & Sons)
1934
Gilford 168 OT
??? 32

This superb vehicle was supplied new to R Taylo & Sonsr, t/a Ideal Service, Cudworth, in May 1934. PSVC lists show this to be a Gilford 168 OT, chassis number 12181. It is shown as being a thirtytwo-seater of unknown make. I suspect that the destination aperture and domed peak will be sufficient to lead the OBP sleuths to a simple identification of the coach-builder responsible. This was with showman J Heyes of Norwich by 1950 and moved again in 1958 to WH Smith (non PSV), Salford.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson

05/12/17 – 14:14

Love seeing pictures of old Gilfords. Have connection with them through my grandfather who test drove the chassis when they were built in Bellfield Works, High Wycombe around 1930.

Andrew Stevens

07/12/17 – 08:45

Yes, I recall seeing a few of them when I used to tour the showmen’s vehicles at funfairs. Does someone know how the Gruss springs worked?

Chris Hebbron

08/12/17 – 07:12

About halfway down on the following web page is a description and picture of a Gilford, possibly a 168OT, of Ideal Service, Cudworth, and it is suggested that it might be YG 7518. Clicking on the thumbnail picture gets a slightly bigger view, which shows several differences from the fairground machine, notably the angular front destination indicator and the much lower build of the side panelling. If it is, indeed, the same vehicle, then these modifications might have been undertaken later in the life of the machine to modernise its appearance. //www.svvs.org/help49.shtml

Roger Cox

09/12/17 – 07:35

Roger, in his book ‘Independents in Western Yorkshire’ Neville Mercer writes that both Taylor and Wray had one Gilford each, the Wray one being registered HE 5684. I think the one in your link is more likely to be that of H Wray and it looks shorter than the one above but apparently their seating capacities were the same at 32.

Chris Barker

10/12/17 – 06:22

I am sure that you are right, Chris. The vehicle on the svvs site is clearly different from YG 7518, and must be the Wray example.

Roger Cox

11/12/17 – 06:57

The one registered HE 5684 is shown in PSVC lists as chassis 11668, also a 168OT with 32-seat body of unknown make and delivered new in April 1932 to H.Wray (Ideal)

Les Dickinson

12/12/17 – 08:39

To answer Chris H’s last question, I have no personal knowledge of Gruss air springs, but have found https://www.google.com/patents/US1692035 which is the patent description registered in the USA in 1924. I haven’t had the patience to read through all the print with its OCR errors, but the images give the general idea!

Geoff Pullin

15/12/17 – 07:25

Gruss air springs were auxiliary front suspension units working in concert with standard leaf springs. The travel of the air springs must have occurred at the base of the units, similar to the Hydragas units on my Rover 100 (aka Metro) cars. Looking at this picture of a 1920 Haynes touring car, it shows that the front ends of the leaf springs were attached not directly to the chassis but to the bases of the Gruss units, which were themselves rigidly fixed to the chassis. Whilst acting as a complementary springing medium, the air springs would have also offered a degree of damping action and roll resistance in the days of otherwise unsophisticated suspension systems. www.shorpy.com/node/

Roger Cox

Copyright Unknown

Ideal Service (R Taylor & Sons)
1949
Leyland Titan PD2/3
Brush L27/26R

New to Ribble Motor Services (No 2691) in 1949 passed to Delaine Bourne in 1961 as their (No 54) where it served 5 years when it then passed to R Taylor & Sons Cudworth in February 1966 (No 16) part of the Ideal Service When Taylors sold out to Yorkshire Traction in 1967 this vehicle passed to H Wray & Sons of Hoyle Mill Barnsley and remained in service until 1969.
Photographed outside Taylor’s garage at Cudworth.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Brian Lunn

26/09/17 – 06:45

Twenty years service from one of these vehicles who’s Brush bodies were said to be of questionable durability was a good innings.
Delaine’s beautiful livery must have inspired Taylors to replicate the V arrangement on the upper deck front panel and the application of the IDEAL name on the (illuminated?) glass panel is a nice touch. The large fleetname on the side is just visible and the whole thing looks very smart indeed, a worthy transformation from blue to red!
I can’t help thinking that H Wray & Sons might not have gone to the same trouble!

Chris Barker

26/09/17 – 14:23

Judging by the rubber window mounts I would guess this vehicle’s bodywork was rebuilt/refurbished somewhere along the way. In 1949 except for ECW this type of window mounting was rare. I seem to recall hearing or reading that at this time ECW had this type of window mounting patented. I am sure someone will comment.

Philip Halstead

27/09/17 – 06:22

Pictures of this bus in Delaine’s ownership are seen here:- //www.delaineheritagetrust.org/54.html The windows had already acquired the external flush rubber glazing at that time, so a body refurbishment took place either under Delaine or earlier. Full details about Delaine, including a historic fleet list, may be found on this web page:- //www.delainebuses.com/fleet.html

Roger Cox

Picture R F Mack

Ideal Service (R Taylor & Sons)
1934
Leyland Tiger TS6C
Roe B36R (1949)

Parked in Beastfair Pontefract awaiting for the return journey to Barnsley is DJ 6058 which was a Leyland TS6C new to St Helens corporation in 1934 with an English Electric B32F body. Acquired by R. Taylor and Son Cudworth who ran the Ideal Service with H. Wray of Hoyle Mill Barnsley. Re-bodied in 1949 with a Roe body, the entrance was changed to the rear and four extra seat were added making it a B36R.
When Taylors sold out to Yorkshire Traction, Wray’s continued to run the service until they too sold to Yorkshire Traction. Stagecoach ran the service Barnsley to Pontefract via Upton until the 29th January 2017 and they have terminated the service at Brierley. The service from Hemsworth to Pontefract via Upton in now run by M Travel with a vastly reduced service.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Brian Lunn

17/02/17 – 06:48

To see what it looked like originally, there’s an official picture of a sister vehicle when new at: //davidbeilby.zenfolio.com/

David Beilby

17/02/17 – 08:54

Thanks for the picture David, it is interesting to see the difference. I don’t remember it any different to the Roe body, so it may have been re-bodied soon after Taylor’s bought it.

Brian Lunn

17/02/17 – 08:55

David – thanks for the link to the official photo of the St Helens version of this TS6c. However, what amazes me is the sign in the back window stating "Dick Kerr Coachwork". I realise they had an historic link with English Electric but I don’t think I’ve ever known of, or seen, reference to a Dick Kerr bus body before.

Paul Haywood

17/02/17 – 14:40

Yes, Paul, an interesting observation. I knew of the ‘Dick Kerr’ connection to trams, and the English Electric connection to both buses and trams, but it appears (if we believe Wikipedia) that the DK operation was a member of the EE group, and that the name is not a variation of Richard Kerr, but a combination of Mr Dick and Mr Kerr, so "Dick, Kerr".

Pete Davies

17/02/17 – 14:41

By the time of this picture DJ 6058 seems to have lost its torque converter, as there is no long tank visible on the front bulkhead. I guess the conversion to normal gearbox would have been made at the same time as the rebodying.

Ian Thompson

17/02/17 – 14:42

According to the Peter Gould fleet list, this vehicle (and one other of its type) were rebodied while with St Helens, and lasted until 1954 with that fleet.

David Call