Daimler Transport Vehicles
1968
Daimler Roadliner SRC6/SRP8
Plaxton DP53F

The rear engined Daimler Roadliner powered by the compact and powerful Cummins V6-200 emerged in 1964, but production did not really get under way until 1966, with West Riding, Black & White and Potteries being early users of the type. Reliability problems with the engine and toggle link suspension soon became apparent, and operators began cancelling their orders in the light of service experience. In May 1968 Daimler became part of the British Leyland Motor Corporation, and the Roadliner was offered with the option of the Perkins V8-510 engine with hopes of improved reliability. A new Plaxton bodied Roadliner demonstrator, KKV 800G, still with the troublesome Cummins engine, was built in August 1968. This bus subsequently received the Perkins 8 cylinder power unit, probably before its appearance as shown in the Demonstration Park at the 1968 Olympia show. The Perkins option did not save the Roadliner and only some 33 SRP8 examples were built. KKV 800G subsequently entered the City of Oxford fleet in 1970 as number 639.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

Hutchings and Cornelius
Copyright Unknown

Demonstrator
1949
Jensen JLP1
Sparshatt B40F

In December 1949 the first prototype of the Jensen JLP1 passenger chassis visited the Manchester area while on an extensive demonstration tour. The vehicle was unregistered and its (presumed!) the trade plate had been removed for this publicity shot and replaced with the false registration mark 1 AEA – in real life this wasn’t issued until 1960. It was distributed by North-West area Jensen dealership J R Evans of Cross Street, Manchester 2. Despite a fondness for Jensens (and other lost causes) I’ve never seen a photograph of the prototype during its demonstration tour before. Are there any others?
The JLP1 was an extended (27ft 6in) version of the JP1 personnel carrier offered to industrial and social welfare users. Less than 50 of the JP1 were sold and only five of the longer PSV version. All had aluminium chassis frames to reduce weight to slightly less than 5 tons – not bad for a 40 seat vehicle but aluminium was an expensive material which resulted in a price-tag 25% higher than that of a comparable Sentinel STC4.
The bus version was offered as a semi-integral, bodied by Sparshatt as seen in this view. The only order came from Hutchings & Cornelius of South Petherton for two vehicles, the first prototype (as seen here) which became MYA 391 in July 1950, and a second vehicle (which had already been built as a "speculative" sale) as MYA 816 in August.
The coach version was slightly more successful, with three being produced in 1949/50 for small operators in London (with a Strachans body), the Isle of Wight (with a Reading body), and County Durham (with ACB bodywork). Jensen soon gave up on goods vehicles and PSVs to concentrate on its sports cars.

(With thanks to Mike Shaw and George Turnbull of GMTS for finding the shot and allowing me to borrow it for scanning)

Photograph and Copy contributed by Neville Mercer

20/08/15 – 05:57

Thanks for posting, Neville. Another ‘blast from the past’ as they used to say on a radio station of the mid to late 1960’s. I understand that it’s still with us (the radio station, I mean, not this gem) At first glance, it looks rather Beadle or MCW Olympic in origins, so it’s interesting that the price comparison is with a Sentinel!

Pete Davies

20/08/15 – 05:58

A very interesting photograph indeed Neville, and thank you very much for posting, and thanks also to Mike Shaw and George Turnbull for granting permission to do so. I must admit to not knowing a great deal about JNSN, apart from it being the commercial vehicle arm of Jensen Motors of West Bromwich at one time, and I believe the bus/coach model utilised a combination of Perkins engine and David Brown gearbox. The Sparshatt body looks quite neat, but there does not appear to be a door fitted at the unusually-shaped entrance, which must have made for a draughty ride. (That would have confined any cigarette smoke well and truly to the rear of the vehicle!). Use of aluminium for the chassis/underframe obviously led to the impressive unladen weight, and is reminiscent of Bristol’s two LS prototype buses, which also had aluminium alloy underframes. Subsequent LS production models had steel underframes however – steel lending itself better to welding techniques and also being less expensive than aluminium.

Brendan Smith

20/08/15 – 10:32

Interesting post – JNSN certainly lived a shadowy life. Much was against the success of this vehicle. As usual, conservatism in the industry and 1950 was a bit late, post-war, for the benefit of distressed purchases. I can’t make out the entrance at all. There seems to be a bulkhead behind the driver, but only a half-height partition in front of the front nearside passenger seat, making for an even draughtier journey!
Interesting that Sparshatts and Reading both get a mention above. They were physically next door neighbours at Hilsea, Portsmouth. Reading eventually sold out to Sparshatts, who carried on with Reading’s order book, but did not take over their building, which slowly decayed over the years.

Chris Hebbron

24/08/15 – 06:01

I always enjoyed the occasional glimpse of a Jensen lorry on the road but never saw a bus. Without those silly black shapes over the wheelarches this well-proportioned example would look very good: neat and businesslike. I’m surprised they didn’t manage to get the weight below 5 tons. Wonder what the fuel mileage was like? With the Perkins P6, perhaps not all that wonderful. In the yard outside the 1964(?) Commercial Motor Show in London there was a Dennis Pax demonstrator bus giving rides. It had much in common with the Jensen: entrance ahead of front axle, light weight, Perkins P6; but a Dennis gearbox instead of the Jensen’s David Brown. Good try…

Ian T

24/08/15 – 09:30

Ian T – I can remember going up the Great Orme once on a Dennis Pax bus, rather basic, but built for a challenging job. It didn’t have an entrance forward of the front wheels, however.

Chris Hebbron

26/08/2015 17:22:16

Jensen has popped up on this site before, but not in a form to be indexed. There was a question about them which provides a bit more info from David Oldfield and Peter Tulloch and some scratchbuilt models by Iain Simms. I am always intrigued by the radiator grille which seems the opposite of the discreet identities we are generally used to, and I wonder if it was OTT for some operators- RR might have been OK. I dimly remember seeing it on pantechnicons too?

Joe

23/11/15 – 06:31

My father worked for Martins the Cleaners based at Apperley Bridge Bradford. I remember they had a few Jenson pantechnicons and these were followed by Commer Avengers and Ford R226.

Geoff S

23/11/15 – 14:46

With Regard to Ian T’s comment, we at Glasgow Vintage Vehicle Trust recently were donated a number of mid 1960s editions of Passenger Transport courtesy Model Bus Federation Scotland. In one of them Alan Townsin road tests a Dennis Bus for rural services. It was a Dennis bodied Dennis Pax IIA PSV model and had as you say a Dennis gearbox but the engine was a Perkins 6:308 the direct injection development of the P6.
It was photographed in Dennisville, Guildford carrying registration HPC 153C but that does not show on BLotW which has a list of all Pax IIA buses, the majority wheelchair accessible school buses for London Authorities.
AIUI the surviving Llandudno bus has a 6:354 and a David Brown Gearbox.

Apologies. I appreciate BLotW is an evolving site. HPC 153C does now appear if you search for it. but not in the Pax IIA list. NO chassis number is listed so it might be the one sold to Merseyside Fire Brigade on the other list.

Stephen Allcroft

28/10/17 – 17:11

I remember travelling on the two H&C JNSN vehicles many times, particularly to work in Taunton. In the winter they were rostered on the route via Isle Brewers because they were very good at passing through the floods in Isle Brewers and over the River Isle to Fivehead. I wonder if they were bought especially for their capacity to pass through deep water.
I recall one occasion when the driver stopped at the top of Fivehead hill, came round and changed into wellington boots and told us to take our luggage up off the floor. He set off through the flood which at is deepest was running through the sunken footwell to a depth of several inches.
There was a door to the passenger compartment which ran on rails behind the drivers compartment. When the buses were converted for one man operation an operating lever was fitted behind the drivers seat, which possibly caused injured backs amongst the drivers. At the same time the drivers seat was boxed in and a ticket machine and cash tray fitted.
By the mid 60s the aluminium body was becoming sloppy around the rivet holes and swayed from side to side on corners.
By the way Len Cornelius, son of the founder, taught my father and my self to drive and we both took and passed our test on the same day in 1965.

Richard Burton

16/09/18 – 07:20

A pity this almost unique vehicle is listed as a demonstrator. To list it by it’s operator would give Hutchings and Cornelius it’s only apparent entry on this excellent website

Richard Burton

16/09/18 – 07:20

Couldn’t agree more it is now listed to Hutchings and Cornelius as well.

Peter

With – Newcastle Corporation
1963
Daimler Fleetline CRG6LX
Alexander H44/34F

565 CRW; 1963 H44/34F Alexander bodied Daimler Fleetline CRG6LX demonstrator:
Over the years, Newcastle Corporation had quite a number of Daimlers, both double and single deck, with a variety of bodies from different coachbuilders, but with the demise of the half cab in favour of front entrance rear engine buses they stayed very firmly entrenched in the Leyland camp. However, that’s not to say that they didn’t dip a toe in the water. This Daimler demonstrator pictured at Tynemouth is on loan to Newcastle Corporation. The service 11 ran from Newcastle Haymarket to Tynemouth, and was shared by NCT and NGT’s Percy Main depot. When it first started in 1928, the operating licences were divided equally between Newcastle Corporation, Tynemouth and District Transport, and Wakefields Motors Ltd. Wakefields subsequently became part of the NGT group, but all their operators licences remained in their name, so officially, three Percy Main vehicles on this route either had to carry the Wakefields name, or display an ‘On hire to Wakefields’ sticker, needless to say, this was a formality that was frequently overlooked.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ronnie Hoye

24/02/14 – 07:50

Two Demonstrators were shown at the 1960 Commercial Motor Show, one was a chassis, the other a CRD6 model, with chassis No.60000, the well known 7000HP, in Birmingham City Transport livery, shown above.

This bus later ended up with the Blue Bus Services (Tailby and George) fleet at Willington in Derbyshire, and was totally destroyed in the disastrous fire in January 1976. See here:- www.stephenhowarth.co.uk/ 

Blue Bus Services (Tailby and George) also took 5 more Fleetlines one of which was the first production chassis – 60003, bodies by Northern Counties in 1962, 324 YNU. Seen here in the 3rd picture negotiating flood waters (just shows they are not a modern problem as the press would have us think), on the Derby to Burton via Etwall service, later to be numbered 46 by Derby Borough Transport on the takeover by that concern in 1974.

Stephen Howarth

25/02/14 – 14:42

Thanks for posting this, Ronnie. I found it rather intriguing! The vehicle shown is, indeed 565 CRW, and I have a bought colour shot of her in a livery with slightly more cream. What intrigues me is that I have vague memories of a Daimler/Alexander demonstrator with an awkwardly similar registration, namely 595 CRW. Were there really two of them, or is my memory card in need of replacement???

Pete Davies

25/02/14 – 17:14

Here’s another demonstrator on the 11 Tynemouth to Newcastle, arriving at the Haymarket. Photo by Bob Mack.
Atlantean SGD 669 started life as Glasgow Corporation LA91 then returned to Leyland for use as a demonstrator, afterwards moving on to the Fishwick fleet in Leyland as their no. 34.
IIRC it was in Newcastle during 1964, AFTER the Corporation had committed to this style of bodywork in 1963 on the first trolleybus replacement Atlanteans (1-12 JVK) so I’m not sure what it was demonstrating at the time! Or was it working with Tynemouth, Ronnie?
Does anyone know why this vehicle was chosen for its wider role? Did it initially have any features different from the Glasgow standard? I think (fatal!) that its green panels were changed to matching yellow for its time in Newcastle, so perhaps other modifications happened as well. Did it run in Glasgow colours while in Halifax?

Tony Fox

26/02/14 – 07:40

Glasgow had loaned different Atlanteans to Leyland for demonstration work. Theirs were 30′-8" long and with this stylish Alexander body would have conveyed the modern image of a bus that Leyland would wish to portray. Glasgow and Leyland came to an agreement to part with LA91, replaced later with LA202, presumably to make a vehicle immediately available to Leyland. A six-month wait would risk letting Daimler seize the opportunity. As a demonstrator its Glasgow livery was certainly changed to one more like the Newcastle one, without the green.
I am pretty sure there was no 595 CRW, or at least a Fleetline with that number, but 565 CRW certainly demonstrated in two liveries as it appeared at Halifax in both guises.

David Beilby

26/02/14 – 07:41

Can’t say for certain, Tony. I started at Percy Main in January 1967, so this was before my time, however, by 1963, T&D had 22 PDR1/1’s, which was roughly a quarter of the D/D fleet. In 1963, they took delivery of the first of two batches of Weymann bodied CRG6LX Fleetlines, followed by three batches of Alexander bodied versions in 65/7&8. I lived close to Percy Main depot, and took a keen interest in what went on. From memory, demonstrators were usually to be found working the very busy stop start Whitley Bay to Lobley Hill Gateshead service 1, which was a greater test of stamina than the equally busy but less demanding service 11. If you want my opinion, I would say that it was with NCT rather than Tynemouth.

Ronnie Hoye

26/02/14 – 07:43

Pete, there were no other Fleetline demonstrators around at the time of 565 CRW. I think it replaced 4559VC, a Northern Counties-bodied example which went on to spend many years with Procter’s of Hanley.
Tony, although SGD 669 is nowadays widely-referred to as being ‘ex-Glasgow’, I have to cast doubt on the notion that it actually reached there. Leyland had already, on separate occasions, borrowed two Glasgow Atlanteans, I think they were LA6 and LA83. It was then announced that Glasgow had agree to ‘sell’ LA91 – but it is my recollection that at that time deliveries had not reached that point, and, if that was the case, LA91 would still be in build. Also, it does seem unlikely that Leyland would buy back an already-delivered vehicle when identical ones were still being completed at the rate of, probably, two a week.
SGD 669 took up its demonstration duties in mock Newcastle Corporation livery – there again, why repaint a bus after a week or two in service, when one could be painted to order from scratch?
You’ll see that I said Glasgow had agreed to ‘sell’ LA91 – but it was ultimately replaced by LA152, which was effectively added to the next order for fifty similar buses. So the situation would appear to have been a bit more involved than a simple ‘sale’.
To the question of whether it ran in Halifax in Glasgow colours, I’m obviously doubting that it ever received those colours, and I’m pretty certain that it didn’t do any demonstrating in them.
There’s actually already a page on OBP devoted to SGD 669. www.old-bus-photos.co.uk/?p=581

David Call

26/02/14 – 07:45

When the Atlantean was demonstrated in Aberdeen it was painted yellow and cream Newcastle style.
From memory it had also been in France, the wording on the offside was "Ici Le Leyland Atlantean 78 places".
565 CRW saw service with both Grahams of Paisley and Moffat and Williamson of Gauldry.

Stephen Bloomfield

26/02/14 – 12:10

565 CRW demonstrated at Halifax three times. The first time, in April 1964, it was in a different livery to that depicted above, using a deep brownish maroon and a rich cream. It returned to Halifax in October 1964 to demonstrate to Hebble in the same livery. It returned to the Corporation again in September 1965, by which time it had been repainted in the Edinburgh style with a lighter, more Edinburgh-like red, but with more of an ivory relief colour, rather than Edinburgh’s white. It paid a longer third visit in August/September 1966, just prior to the Corporation’s own first Fleetlines being delivered, still in the same livery. I think much of its extended stay involved some engineering familiarisation.
SGD 669 demonstrated to Halifax in May/June 1964. It was in a Newcastle-style livery, and I recall the interior was rather plain with a lot of darkish green rexene. It returned to the area to demonstrate to Hebble in October/November 1964. There is a nice photo of it working for Halifax Corporation here: www.sct61.org.uk/hxsgd699

John Stringer

26/02/14 – 13:06

Something has just struck me regarding the Alexander body. On such a modern design for the period, why did they continue with rear mudguards when others had abandoned them? It looks particularly odd given the lack of matching ones for the front wheels.

Phil Blinkhorn

26/02/14 – 14:11

If memory serves, Phil, the rear wings were rubber, and so less prone to accidental damage when removing the wheels, especially the inners.

Ronnie Hoye

27/02/14 – 07:38

Here is Daimler Fleetline 565 CRW in King Cross Road, Halifax en route from Hebden Bridge to Brighouse when on hire to HPTD in the summer of 1965. The picture was taken late in the evening when I spotted the bus and just managed to get off a shot (with entirely guessed exposure settings) as I walked home, hence the indifferent quality of the picture.

Roger Cox

28/02/14 – 07:54

The hopper windows were uncommon in those days, I can’t recall any local Operators using them (ECW fitted them to Lodekkas etc). Was this body tagged on to one for regular Alexander users (Glasgow or SBG?) Maybe they specified them? They look much neater tan sliders.

Ian Wild

01/03/14 – 13:36

565 CRW had an A-type body with body number A/1363. Alexander’s body numbering was a bit erratic at the time as they kept changing the system, but the only other A-types ordered around the same time seem to have been A/1663 for AA, Ayr (XSD 430); A/1963 for McGill, Barrhead (AHS 16B); A/2063 for Graham, Paisley (HXS 864). Looking at photos of these three on the web show that all had normal sliding windows.

John Stringer

29/06/14 – 07:17

I am sure 565 CRW worked for Harper Bros (Heath Hayes) as a demonstrator for a while in the mid sixties, but if my memory is correct there was a lot more cream livery on it then.

Keith Harley

20/11/15 – 14:12

Significant information just published in Buses Mag December 2015 page 84 reveals that 565 CRW was shown at 1963 Scottish Motor Show in Glasgow Corporation colours, finished to Glasgow spec.
Having a life-long interest in Fleetlines I was not aware of this but Alan Millar confirms this was the case. Buses Illustrated January 1964 issue page 7 states "By the time this column went to press no order had been placed by G.C.T. for another Fleetline" (GCT already had SGD 730, new in May 1963) "But the Show model was finished in G.C.T. colours and to G.C.T. specification" Has anyone seen a picture of 565 CRW in Glasgow colours?

Jim Neale

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

25/10/16 – 14:22

I always liked that Alexander body style on Atlanteans and Fleetlines. Bury had 15 on Fleetline chassis, 117-131, later Selnec 6317-31. They were the only ones in the combined fleet after the PTE took over with the highbridge version of the body, although North Western had quite a few with the low height version. Bury had one of those for a short time, YJA 2, in overall advertising livery for Quicks for Ford.

David Pomfret