Morris Works Band
1961
Morris Commercial FF
Wadham

14 LFC is another of those peculiar vehicles which was never a PSV. She is a Morris Commercial FF, new in 1961 with a Wadham RC27F body for use as the Morris Works Band transport. I suppose this explains the raised rear part of the saloon – popularly called the ‘half deck’ concept, though I understand that is a different species altogether. She’s seen on 4 July 2012 in one of the sheds at Long Hanborough.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

01/08/14 – 16:35

I had a short ride on this a few weeks ago at the Hertfordshire showground in Redbourn.
The word that springs to mind is "basic". I hope the band didn’t have to travel too far afield from Oxford!
Nice unique preserved vehicle though.

Andrew Goodwin

01/08/14 – 17:15

(tongue in cheek!) Maybe the raised portion was to allow the trombones to practice without injuring the rest of the band…

John Hodkinson

02/08/14 – 09:06

Thanks for your thoughts. Well, John, one never knows – "many a true word", and all that!

Pete Davies

03/08/14 – 07:53

…..especially if there were 76 of them!
The chassis would have been cheap, since it was made by Morris themselves, but one wonders how much Wadhams charged for a one-off body like this, probably Wadhams only attempt at such a body!

Chris Hebbron

12/09/14 – 06:15

Wadham had previously done a 35 seat bus on Morris FF for Liss and District. That was the only FF sold as a PSV in the UK although it did sell in Australasia and in Singapore.

Stephen Allcroft

13/09/14 – 06:33

Interesting, Stephen. I’ve never seen any mention of Basil Williams’ empire having such an unusual vehicle.

Chris Hebbron

14/09/14 – 07:23

Chris, I think we should remember that Liss and District had a life both before and after Basil Williams’ involvement era. Later, it was involved with Creamline of Bordon. I don’t know where the Morris FF/Wadham bus that Stephen mentions fits into this, though.

Michael Hampton

14/09/14 – 11:1114/09/14 – 11:11

Thx, Michael. Knew of its former life , but not its afterlife! Everything that Basil did was complex; I wonder if he, himself, ever kept fully au fait with his manoeuvrings! One of life’s characters, though, keeping the world from being a duller place, especially for the likes of us!

Chris Hebbron

14/09/14 – 17:23

Stephen’s reference to a Morris FF in the Liss and District fleet is of interest, but more information about his bus is proving rather elusive. Basil Williams’ interest in Liss and District ceased on 21 December 1954 when his Hants and Sussex empire collapsed. Liss and District was then sold to Empress Coaches of Stockbridge, another of Basil Williams’ former companies, though who owned that operator at that time is unclear. Liss and District later came into the hands of Creamline of Bordon who retained it until the proprietors, Charles and Margaret Wilkins, retired in 1967. The Morris FF of 1961 must have been purchased by them. Straying off the subject somewhat (do we ever?) Stephen has contributed an illuminating piece about British Leyland, particularly engine development, and sometimes the lack of it, at the following site:- //middx.net/aec/board/viewtopic.php

Roger Cox

15/09/14 – 07:00

The other vehicle in question was TOU 157. It was new in 1958 and I understand it was purchased by Creamline. There is a photograph of it somewhere on flickr.

Chris Barker

15/09/14 – 12:00

That Flickr photograph Chris mentions is www.flickr.com/photos/roadtransportphotos

Stephen Howarth

15/09/14 – 12:00

Thanks to Roger Cox for unscrambling the Liss and District history post Basil Williams. The Empress (Stockbridge) operation had gone to Holland Tours (Patrick & Brown, Oldbury) at first, and then sold to Buddens of West Tytherley. From the PSVC history I looked at it seems that Liss and District became a subsidiary of Empress when this was still owned by Hollands, and remained a subsidiary when Buddens came on the scene. Buddens then sold Liss and District to Creamline of Bordon as a subsidiary of that group. The sale to Hollands was in Dec 1954, the sale to Buddens in Apr 1955, and to Creamline Oct 1955. And we thought the deregulation era had quick sales! The Morris Commercial TOU 157 is pictured as indicated by Chris Barker, and this shows it to be an "ordinary" saloon, i.e. not with a half deck at the rear for the 76 trombonists(!).

Michael Hampton

16/09/14 – 09:52

The history of Liss & District, post-Basil, is as complex as Basil’s Empire (well, almost!). Being at Bordon, I imagine that Creamline benefited from the army weekend work in the way that Silver Star did, until the end of National Service and contraction/civilianisation at least.

Chris Hebbron

01/05/15 – 12:57

Chris Hebbron about Creamlines participation in weekend Forces leave services. They ran from camps in the Bordon/Aldershot area to London, Warwick, Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds and Sheffield (at least) and bought mainly AEC Reliances with Duple bodies seating 43 for this work. They usually kept them for 2 years and replaced them with new coaches. flickr has a group devoted to forces leave services with several Creamline photos.

Paul Statham

02/05/15 – 06:53

Thx, Paul. This work, nationally, must have been a lucrative source of income, since poverty-stricken National Serviceman, anxious to get home to girlfriends/families would use them to the full, until it dried up around 1962. Strangely enough, even though I was based at RAF Stafford, a large Maintenance Unit, in the late 1950’s, and one or two other camps, I never saw/noticed any coaches on these services. I always went home by train, passing through Liss Station on my way home to Portsmouth. I’ll look up Flickr.

Chris Hebbron

20/07/15 – 09:56

This vehicle was at the Alton Bus Rally Sunday 19th, and I attach two more views of this interesting vehicle.

Pete Davies

20/07/15 – 16:41

Thx, Pete, for the new photos, giving a much more rounded idea of the bodywork. This complex body design, must have been quite an interesting challenge for Morris employees, building just the one-off. It’s certainly not unattractive.

Chris Hebbron

21/07/15 – 06:16

Thanks, Chris. I can’t help but feel the folk in the back (raised) portion wouldn’t have had much forward vision. Was that to help them concentrate on their music?

Pete Davies

21/07/15 – 06:17

The body was built by Wadhams of Waterloovlle, a long-time favoured partner for Morris-Commercial PSV chassis

Philip Lamb

26/03/19 – 06:49

The large boot was for the percussion instruments and the larger brass instruments. Lord Nuffield loved his band.

Peter Hewis

27/03/19 – 06:45

Looking at the two above photos, I can’t help thinking that the narrow front wheel track was not a great help in cornering? I recall driving a Karrier/Commer Spacevan once or twice, which, with a narrow front axle compared with the rear one, had appalling cornering ability, digging in at the front, even at modest speed, which, on reflection, was the only speed it ever achieved! Even for the 1980’s, it was a dreadful vehicle!

Chris Hebbron

28/03/19 – 07:25

I dont think the track on the Morris FF was any narrower that on similar vehicles of the day such as the Bedford SB. The Commer FC ‘Spacevan’ was a much smaller vehicle.

John Wakefield

Court Cars of Torquay
1948
Guy Vixen
Wadhams C29F

KTT 689 is a 1948 Guy Vixen with petrol engine and C29F body supplied by Wadhams Bros. It is one of a pair supplied to Court Cars of Torquay. In later life it was preserved under cover at WETC for some 20 years before being bought by Ron Lucas. Upon his death it was acquired by the Black Country Living Museum where this picture was taken on 27/10/13. Repainted in 2012 it still has the original interior as supplied.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ken Jones

12/12/13 – 07:16

Another beauty that’s found its way to these pages via Ken’s camera!
Thanks for posting.

Pete Davies

13/12/13 – 07:34

Yes indeed, a real treasure. I too saw it at the Black Country Museum in mid August on a day out with grandchildren. It was in service but unfortunately didn’t get a chance to ride on it. Although nowhere near as numerous as the Bedford OB / Duple Vista combination, there seemed to be quite a number of this body style around once upon a time, in the late 50’s / early 60’s. I remember one in Portsmouth that looked a bit sorry for itself c.1961/62, painted all over matt grey, registered FRV 629. It was based on a Morris Commercial chassis, and probably of similar dimensions to the Guy. It was owned by a local contractor, Privetts. This contractor was building an office block on the site of the disused part of the Cosham compound by the railway gates – the one time terminal for the trams and trolley buses, before the smaller one was built c.1948. The new office was just a simple building, not the high tower that is there now. FRV 629 just sat at the edge of the site for most of the time, so on reflection now, I presume it was being used as an office / store, rather than staff transport. There were at least two others of this combination, FBK 569 and FBK 639. Although all three were new to other local operators, they all ended up with White Heather of Southsea from 1953/54 until 1960. All three went to United Service Garages as a dealer, but only the one I’ve mentioned saw further use with Privetts. I read somewhere recently (this site?) that Wadham bodies were not renowned for their longevity, so their use from 1950 to 1960 as PSV’s is probably typical of their type. So we have a rare gem now preserved at Dudley, and well done for those who have restored it for service.

Michael Hampton

14/12/13 – 12:11

I was surprised to note that it has a full width bulkhead behind the cab, the driver shut off from the passengers in splendid isolation. It must have been a bit like driving a van.

John Stringer

05/01/19 – 06:50

It is still at the BCLM but it really needs a lot of work.

William Parker

Copyright P J Marshall

Portsmouth Corporation
1939
Leyland Cheetah LZ4
Wadham B32R

Portsmouth Corporations fleet number 46 was the last of a batch of 6 Leyland LZ4 Cheetahs, 41-46 (BTP 941-946), with locally-built Wadham bodywork, new in 1939. 41 and 42 were withdrawn in 1941, after suffering war damage. This view of 46 at Eastney Depot was taken about 1954 when the remaining four of them were withdrawn from service and were awaiting disposal. Note the sad appearance, bald front tyres and single wheels only on the rear! Although I only holidayed in Portsmouth and Southsea from 1949-1956, I never recall ever seeing these buses in service.
Note the bus is surrounded by some of the nine 1944 Duple-bodied utility Daimler CWA6’s of which virtually no photos seem to exist. In 1959, the chassis were thoroughly overhauled and they were despatched to be re-fitted with Crossley bodies, some of the last Crossley bodies built, only to be scrapped in 1965! With only nine pre-selective gear change vehicles in the fleet, they were greatly abused, with inexperienced drivers using the gear change pedal as a clutch pedal, with lots of juddering. As a visiting Londoner, living in the Daimlerland Merton/Sutton area, it made me cringe!

Photograph and Copy contributed by Chris Hebbron

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The Cheetahs were bought for the Southsea Sea Front Service, but of course this ceased in September 1939. The bodies had sunshine roofs and a total of six destination screens to inform the tourists of the attractions on the route. The bodies were reportedly heavy for the lightweight chassis, which was fine for a ride down the promenade, but a problem on normal services.After the war they were used on peak time specials when the fleet was understrength, but very little else. Interestingly there is a record of No.43 running on mileage equalisation duties on Southdown Service 138 from Fareham to Cosham over Portsdown Hill. That would have tested its Leyland 4.7 litre engine.

Pat Jennings

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It’s true the bus behind is one of the CWA6/Duples, as all nine were withdrawn in 1954 to go to Crossley for new bodies, being returned in 1955. Thus they did 11 years with original, and 11 years as rebodied, being withdrawn in 1965/66. But those at the side of the Cheetah are Craven-bodied TD4s of the 131-160 batch. These would be either early withdrawals, or set aside for a work-shop rebuild. CPPTD carried out a lot of rebuilding work on the Cravens bodied TD4s and the trolleybuses from c. 1949-1957/58, although not every member of these batches received such work.

Michael Hampton

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I agree with ‘Michael Hampton’ with regards to the re-bodying of the ‘Daimler CWA6’. A rather elderly Bus Book I have from 1963 states that they were re-bodied in 1955 by Crossley.
I think it would have been a lot to ask, that a Double Deck ‘Utility’ body last fifteen years, (unless heavily rebuilt), with the dreadful quality Wartime materials allowed by the ‘Ministry of Supplies’ for Bus Bodies. Even the paint allowed was little better than ‘coloured water’!!
Credit must be give to ‘C.P.P.T.D’ for managing to keep the Utility bodies in service for eleven years. Before the eventual & inevitable – re-bodying process.

John

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Does anyone have a photo of the CWA6’s as re-bodied? I can’t think of any Crossley bodied Daimlers (with exposed radiators that is).

Chris Barker

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Oldham had fifteen Crossley-bodied CVD6 (322-336) and Manchester had fifty CVG5 with their characteristic body (4000-4049). Also Lancaster had a solitary (I think) CWG5 rebodied by Crossley.
However, it is possible you are thinking of the later Park Royal-designed Crossley body and I have to say I can’t think of any other examples.

David Beilby

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No, actually I was thinking of the earlier type of Crossley body of the style with the stepped rear windows, which may be called ‘true’ Crossley bodies. The Portsmouth fleet list on Classic Bus Links states that they were re-bodied in 1959, very late for a wartime chassis to be treated, I thought that T Burrows ex London Daimlers were the last to receive new bodies in 1957. Anyone know which date is correct? If it was 1959 as stated by Chris Hebbron above, they would of course have had the Park Royal style of body, still worth seeing with the exposed radiator and strange if they only lasted six years as such.

Chris Barker

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Chris Barker – I will post a photo of a re-bodied Daimler shortly. They were pleasant enough, but nothing like any other Crossley bodies I’ve seen. What I’m actually after is a photo of one of them BEFORE they were re-bodied! Such photos are be very rare. Any holders of one out there?

Chris Hebbron

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The date of 1959 cannot be correct for the rebodying as the Crossley factory had been closed over a year by then. In fact they entered service in September and October 1955.
It turns out there were not many batches of Daimlers bodied postwar by Crossley. In addition to those I listed the remaining ones were the nine Portsmouth examples, 250 for Birmingham (2776-2900 and 3103 to 3227) and 35 for Aberdeen (175-204 and 210-214).

David Beilby

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Thank you, David, for clarifying the revised date to 1955. I, too, took the Classic Bus Link date of 1959.
I notice that Birmingham’s Daimler CVG6 3225 survives and the Crossley bodywork gives only the merest nod to their standard Corporation design!

Chris Hebbron

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Chris Hebbron has actually sent me a shot of a Portsmouth Crossley rebodied exposed radiator Daimler CWA6 it will be posted in its own right Wednesday 19th January.

Peter

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