Western Welsh
1969
Leyland Leopard PSU3A/4RT
Plaxton C49F

Western Welsh buses ran in a maroon livery however this smart blue and ivory was applied to coaches for a period. OUH 177G is a preserved example of the Leyland PSU3A/4RT (900597) with Plaxton Panorama Elite C49F coachwork (693263). The batch of six delivered in April 1969 were fitted with a five-speed semi-automatic gearbox and two-speed rear axle. This one is seen at the 2016 Swansea Bus Museum Running Day.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson

25/04/16 – 18:05

I’m surprised nobody else has commented, Les. Very nice view, and thanks for posting. I’ve been doing battle with my computer system [going back to a Windows machine from an Apple] otherwise I would have commented before.
I’m still not finished and am currently trying to get some backup copies restored by my local photographic dealer. (Most have copied happily, some have been reluctant to do all their contents and a few won’t do anything!)
It’s very pleasant to see a Western Welsh coach in "proper" colours rather than the white paint carried by her sister 176G, which I had published one these pages some while ago.

Pete Davies

28/04/16 – 07:10

I have attached a photo of Western Welsh WKG 138, an AEC Reliance 470 with a Weymann C39F body new in May 1961. It was on hire to PMT in May 1970 along with several others of the batch and is pictured outside Stoke No 1 Garage. I think this body style was unique to Western Welsh and (to my mind) could hardly be described as attractive. Hope this is of interest.

(A rather younger version of IW is in the driving seat!!!)

Ian Wild

29/04/16 – 06:13

Ian, you described the looks of WKG 138 very tactfully, although it does have its charms despite (to my eyes) looking somewhat like a frog wearing safety goggles. It must be admitted that 177 certainly leaves it standing in the beauty stakes though. The Plaxton coachwork looks simply stunning in Western Welsh’s cream and blue livery. Interesting that the Company chose blue rather than red or maroon for the coach livery. I wonder what the reasoning behind it was.

Brendan Smith

29/04/16 – 07:55

Its a shame that they had to bend the windscreen panels to fit them in.

Joe

02/05/16 – 06:43

Brendan, I believe that "powder blue" was the livery of WWOC’s predecessor South Wales Commercial Motors – although why WWOC decided to adopt it as their coach livery . . .

Philip Rushworth

02/05/16 – 14:03

Brendan’s description "a frog wearing safety goggles" is brilliant ! I can see exactly what he means.

John Stringer

02/05/16 – 14:04

Thanks for the information Philip. It’s certainly an attractive shade, especially when matched with cream/ivory.

Brendan Smith

07/05/16 – 17:31

I was never lucky enough to drive an Elite like this – when I started PSV driving in 1979 it was Supremes that we had at Salopia and then Shearings.
But when I did my HGV training at Bassetts at Stone in the 1990s they still had a few Elites older than this one (ISTR a "D" registered one at least) running around on schools contracts. I asked if they would sell me one but they said "no" on the grounds that with them being 45 instead of 53 seats, they were easier to turn into school driveways.
But out of interest, where would anyone go (apart from eBay) to find something like this for sale these days. I’d love to have my own old "Plackie" to go on day trips out.

Eric Hall

08/05/16 – 05:58

Eric – your best option is probably to buy a copy of "Bus & Coach Preservation" and keep an eye on the adverts section. It is published monthly, and I think that Plaxton Elites come up occasionally (I cannot see any in the current issue). To the best of my knowledge, the earliest Elites were G-suffix registrations. I’m not an expert, but my understanding is that the structure is not always as good as the vehicle might look – and certainly not as solid as an ECW body!
The Western Welsh blue and royal ivory coach and DP livery was actually quite short lived. It first appeared in 1965, and all new coaches and DPs delivered from 1965 to 1971 were delivered in it, as well as the 1972 coaches. Older vehicles were repainted in the blue/ivory during that period, but by 1972, the company had reverted to dark red and cream for DPs. Towards the end of the period, the fleetname was replaced with a large block lettered variety. I seem to recall reading that the shade of blue was known as "peacock".

Nigel Frampton

09/05/16 – 16:49

I have just bought a J reg Elite. Certainly they were renowned for drooping behind the rear axle and mine was no different. 60 man hours and some steel later all sorted and MoT obtained.

Roger Burdett

10/05/16 – 06:47

When you refer to the solidity of ECW body designs, Nigel, I assume that you do not include the B51 in that description, though much of the blame lay with Leyland. The B51 was designed for the RE, but Leyland decided to fit it to underfloor engined chassis with no proper rear chassis support for the boot area.

Roger Cox

11/05/16 – 06:27

Well, Roger, I was thinking more of contemporaries to this Western Welsh vehicle, for example the first style of coach body on a Bristol RELH chassis. Those were definitely solid!
Unfortunately, under Leyland’s influence, and possibly a more general pressure to cut costs, the quality deteriorated in later years, and I have read somewhere that, for example, the second type of RELH coach body was also not as solid as its predecessor. But I agree, the B51 was poor – perhaps, the exception that proves the rule!

Nigel Frampton

11/05/16 – 06:28

The Elite is most correctly described as the ‘Panorama Elite’ although as time went by the ‘Panorama’ was dropped in everyday speak. The earliest examples were G-reg, restyling seeing the introduction of the Panorama Elite II and Panorama Elite III, the final examples being P-registered. When grant doors etc were specified, the word ‘Express’ was added to the body designation eg: Plaxton Panorama Elite II Express, which probably accounts for the general term ‘Elite’!

Philip Lamb

Hampson of Oswestry
1951
AEC Regal IV
Metro-Cammell B35F

"Yes, Jim, she is an RF, but not as we know them," as ‘Startrek’s’ Mr Spock might say. This AEC Regal IV of the normal RF specification has a Metropolitan Cammell B35F body and is seen in the livery of a later owner, Hampson’s of Oswestry, at Dunsfold on 10 April 2011, another of the rare occasions when ‘Wisley’ wasn’t at Wisley, before moving to Brooklands.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

17/04/16 – 06:52

Pete, I wouldn’t regard this as being a "normal" RF. This was one of 25 "Private Hire" RFs, the major differences between this and the standard RF being a length of 27’6" to the 30’0" length of the Standard RF and glazing in the roof.

David Revis

18/04/16 – 06:08

I always thought these stubby creatures looked somewhat unbalanced, compared with their grown-up cousins!

Chris Hebbron

18/04/16 – 07:12

Here are two in service with London Transport LUC 208 RF8 and LUC 225 RF25.

Anon

18/04/16 – 17:59

OOPS! Sorry, folks, but I hadn’t realised that, apart from the roof glazing, the dimensions of these vehicles were any different. I had always thought they were of normal length but with more legroom for the sightseeing public. There is a view of an RFW somewhere in the queue, another factoer in my description of ‘normal’ specification!

Pete Davies

18/04/16 – 17:59

At 27’6" long and 7′ 6" wide with only 35 seats and an unladen weight around eight tons (about the same as a 53-seat Leopard) these were not in high demand when withdrawn in the early 1960s, however two other firms who took to them Garelochhead Coach Service and Premier Travel, both of whom had narrow roads to serve. Both Mr Lainson and Mr Foy were also known to drive hard bargains.

Stephen Allcroft

18/04/16 – 17:59

LUC 213 survives in preservation with Wealdsman Preservation Group, Headcorn they are also listed as having LUC 212 & 216. Other survivors of the ‘Lucys’ as they were nicknamed are LUC 204, 210, & 219. 220 is also listed as a spares donor with Penfold of Meldreth, Cambs but may have been broken up by now since he sold LUC 204 to Dawes of Headcorn circa 2013.
Premier Travel of Cambridge bought& operated 8 of the LUC’s from LT in 1964 they were LUC 202/3/4, 206/7/8/9 & 211.

John Wakefield

20/04/16 – 11:17

The Garelochhead ones (courtesy Andrew Shirley’s GCS Bromley Garage website) were LUC214,215 and 224 numbered 39-41.

Stephen Allcroft

23/04/16 – 06:33

These private hire RFs were ordered before the legal maximum length was increased in 1950 to 30 feet. When the new limit became effective, it was too late to change the dimensions of the first twenty-five machines then under construction, and these, together with the Park Royal prototype UMP 227, became the only short wheelbase 27ft 6ins long Regal IVs ever produced. LTE quickly amended the specification for the subsequent six hundred and seventy-five RF deliveries. The short RFs were all withdrawn by LT during 1963, whereas the thirty footers ran on reliably for upwards of ten more years. The registration letters ‘LUC’ were carried by many members of the RFW, RT and RTL classes as well as the short RFs, and the name ‘Lucy’ was never applied in London service.

Roger Cox

23/04/16 – 13:27

Roger, I am quite relieved by your confirmation that "Lucy" was never used by LT staff. As a member of LT’s Bus schedules office at 55 Broadway in the late 1960’s and early 70’s I was surrounded by any number of feral bus enthusiasts and I’m sure that if that expression had been used I would have heard of it.

David Revis

23/04/16 – 17:47

The reason for their withdrawal in 1963 was a dire shortage of drivers at that time and the consequent need to concentrate manpower/overtime on keeping normal services going, causing LTE to abandon private hire work.

Chris Hebbron

24/04/16 – 07:05

David, I was a schedules compiler at Reigate at about the same time. We can preen ourselves on our skills in producing efficient duty schedules within the very tight constraints of the T&GWU agreements then prevailing. As an expatriate Croydonian in East Anglia, I don’t know about the current situation in London, but the present day schedules of the provincial big groups, unfettered by such agreements, are kids’ play to compile, and often inefficient into the bargain.

Roger Cox

01/11/17 – 07:14

I have read that the last ten of these 27 foot 6 inch long vehicles were modified to Green Line standards receiving route board brackets and overhead luggage racks. Quite when this was done I don’t recall.

Mike Beard

02/11/17 – 06:36

This vehicle is now back on the road having been repainted in original livery and mechanicals serviced as part of the Quantock Heritage Fleet.

Roger Burdett

Provincial (Gosport & Fareham Omnibus Co)
1957
AEC Regent V LD3RA
Park Royal H37/28R

Taken at Hoeford depot on 30/03/69 having been recently transferred from City of Oxford where it had been No H972 this photo shows newly painted Provincial No 60 an LD3RA AEC Regent V with a Park Royal H37/28R body registration number 972 CWL delivered to COMS in December 1957. As a fan of the AEC concealed radiator and the AEC marque in general I find this and the elegant 30ft long Park Royal body an irresistible combination, the only way the effect could be improved would be for it to be in the original superb Oxford livery. This was taken on the same occasion as my posting of the Guy Wulfrunian.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Diesel Dave

14/04/16 – 06:05

Very nice shot Diesel Dave. I too am a fan of the Regent V in all its forms and this is a most handsome version. It would indeed have looked the bees knees in City of Oxford livery, but at least in your photo it’s paintwork looks fresh – probably just repainted out of Provincial’s distinctive ‘jade’ green livery. (Don’t ask me the shade as I haven’t a clue as to what is was officially called!). The NBC leaf green and white also seems to emphasise the length of the AEC nicely, which brings me to the date of the photo Dave, as NBC corporate livery didn’t make its debut until late 1972 I’m afraid. The Regent is wearing the original white ‘Double N’ arrowhead alongside the fleetname. This was replaced some years later by the red and blue arrowhead within a white square. Sadly I did not get to know the Provincial fleet until the early ‘eighties, by which time the fleet was standardising on the Leyland National. Mind you I was fortunate in seeing Provincial’s Bristol-ECW RELL in the wonderful ‘Anniversary livery’ in Gosport a few times while staying with friends, which gave a tantalising glimpse of life before leaf green.

Brendan Smith

14/04/16 – 06:06

Very nice view, Dave. Thanks for posting.

Pete Davies

14/04/16 – 06:06

As the NBC corporate image was introduced in the summer of 1972, I don’t think the stated date in 1969 is correct.

Nigel Frampton

14/04/16 – 08:11

The "jade green" originally used by Provincial was… "Provincial Green"! When Provincial 35 (’36 Regent BOR 767) first came into preservation in 1969 and needed a repaint, Dulux were able to call up the code and make the correct shade of Dulux Coach Paint – for the first time in many years. Provincial later turned to a ‘stock’ colour (I don’t know the details of this) which was very similar, but different enough for some enthusiasts to say that the colour on 35 was ‘wrong’!

David Chapman

14/04/16 – 10:28

Very low seating capacity for a thirty foot double-decker, you would normally expect a bus of this size to be H41/32R. Must have had excellent legroom, unlike some modern buses!

Don McKeown

15/04/16 – 07:15

Yes, Don. That very discussion was included in members’ comments in respect of my contribution on the Hants & Dorset (ex Oxford Via Provincial) 975CWL.

Pete Davies

15/04/16 – 07:16

I suspect that the date is closer to 1973/4 as I seem to recall that 975CWL was in use by Hants and Dorset around then and may have been transferred around the same time.

Steve Barnett

15/04/16 – 07:17

All the Aldershot & District Dennis Lolines had 68 seat bodies by East Lancs, Alexander and Weymann, and were superb vehicles to ride in (and to drive). As Don suggests, modern buses with their closely spaced hard plastics "shaped" (but not to my contours) seating are excruciatingly uncomfortable.

Roger Cox

15/04/16 – 07:17

These buses were known as ‘Queens’ by their Oxford crews due to their sheer size. I seem to recall that the relatively low seating capacity had something to do with local union agreements, but I stand to be corrected. Sister bus H975 is preserved awaiting restoration.

Philip Lamb