Copyright both shots Bob Gell

ex Guernseybus
1950
Leyland RTL
Park Royal H29/23F

A couple of weeks back we had a question on the ‘Q&As’ page regarding front entrance ex London Transport Leyland RTLs. In response Bob Gell contributed the above shots which were taken at the North Weald Rally, 6 July 2008 and the following information of an ex Guernseybus converted RTL.
As can be seen it is now preserved and back to carrying its original London Transport fleet number of RTL 1004 but not quite the original livery. Bob is lead to believe that KYY 647 was converted by Guernseybus in their own workshops, for use as back up on inclement days to their open top RTs one of which was was RT 2494 registration KXW 123 with a Weymann body; it carried Guernsey registration number 54636. Guernseybus may have moved the entrance to the front, which I will come back to later, but as can be seen from the insert shot the staircase was only moved towards the centre of the bus and the stairs went rearwards.
The subject of the original query, JXN 366, the former RTL 43, new to London Transport in 1949 joined the A1 Services fleet in February 1958, owned by T & E Docherty of Irvine. A photo of that vehicle can be seen here. It is thought to have been converted ‘in house’ in this case, the staircase was moved to the front as per normal front entrance vehicles. In 1971, it passed to Duff, a fellow member of A1 Services, who operated it until December 1973. It is now in preservation.
Two questions arise out of this posting there is always at least one, firstly, KYY 647 carried two registrations 47312 and 995 during its time on Guernsey does anyone know why. Secondly whilst researching into these conversions other sites and documentation described the conversion of them to forward entrance not front entrance, Bob thinks that could spark a whole debate on its own, I think he could be right.

Photographs and Information contributed by Bob Gell

By common consent, Front entrance means just that – at the front, by the driver. Forward entrance means as far forward as possible – ie just behind the front axle (and engine) of a standard half-cab (or full-fronted) vehicle.

David Oldfield

I am guilty of using ‘front’ entrance for such vehicles but reading supports the use of ‘forward’ entrance. It seems that front entrance should be used for more modern vehicles, such as the Atlantean, Fleetline, etc. I think some confusion arises where fleet lists show anything not centre or rear entrance as a code ‘F’.

Scott Anderson

Not one, but two forward-entrance RTL’s from different sources. These were complete news to me. Thanks for the interesting post.

Chris Hebbron

The first picture gives the impression that the main object of the modification may have been one man operation – i.e. angled window on left hand side of cab, as was done to various half-cab single deckers by sundry operators.

Stephen Ford

I had quite a few enquirers regarding what the conversion of the rear entrance looked like, well, Bob obliged with the following shot.

Peter

Wow – art deco rounded glass at the rear – very expensive, I’d have thought. Better to see an off-centre rear view than full rear one, because the large rear pane of glass downstairs would be off-centre and the overall look quite asymmetric. Also the offside window ahead of the rounded one seems higher than its counterpart this side and the other side windows. In general, though, a neat job.

Chris Hebbron

Hi Chris I think the higher window you refer to is the new Emergency Door see the little shot inserted in the text.

Spencer

Ah Yes, Spencer, I missed the little photo: the door isn’t so clear on the upper photos. Thanks for clarifying.

Chris Hebbron

06/07/11 – 07:21

The team of inhouse coachbuilders at the then operating Guernseybus were tasked with relocating the rear entrance forward in order to allow the company to continue to operate its entire fleet with just a driver onboard – which was standard practice on the island.
As for the registration number changes, between 47312 and 995, it’s mainly to do with a relatively lucrative market for cherished number plates in Guernsey, which has numeric only registrations. The number 995 may well have been sold (or indeed bought as an investment) by Guernseybus during the double deckers tenure in the island. 47312 would, as a registration number have very little value.

Neil (Guernsey)

31/03/13 – 07:52

You have a photo of my guernsey bus I restored this bus in 1984 the reg on it was JPA 81V as this was the year it came over from the island it was sold for £65 and then it cost £110 pounds on the fery. I got Swansea to give me a reg for it’s year 1958 it was then LSV 748. Hope you find this of use.

John Sergeant

14/09/14 – 07:21

RTL 1004 was the Lambeth Safety Bus in the 1970.
The Abbots Langley Transport Circle bought it from a scape yard in Essex near Ongar. We had the bus for a number of years. We had to sell the bus on when we lost our parking space, and was unable to find another close to our base in Abbots Langley Herts’.

Stephen Norman

23/01/17 – 07:30

I use to own this bus wondered where it ended up and what is it doing now.

Alan Ullmer

Copyright Ian Wild

East Yorkshire Motor Services
1966
AEC Renown 3B3R
Park Royal H38/30F

This was taken at Flamborough on 12 June 1968 in glorious sunshine and about to head off on a Bridlington cross town service. The top deck has the characteristic East Yorkshire inward taper to allow safe passage through the North Bar at Beverley and what an elegant and distinctive livery!! This must have been the last batch of front engined buses for East Yorkshire.

A full list of Renown codes can be seen here.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

———

I know that the AV590/AH590 engines were a little suspect and that the Regent III/RT was better regarded but I still don’t think you can do much better than the Regent V. [Sheffield’s certainly acquitted themselves well in the mountains close to – and in – the Peak District.]
After the commercially unsuccessful Bridgemaster came the low floor Regent V – otherwise known as the Renown. I was particularly fond of the North Western beasts which batted down the A34 during my time as a student in Manchester. How true, though, about the elegant livery of EYMS.
The Bridgemaster was ungainly and almost ugly. The similar body on the Renown was just different enough that I think it avoided the vices of its big brother. It was the right bus at the wrong time, though. Time and the Atlantean overhauled it – and then came the Fleetline as well.

David Oldfield

———

Some of the 1966 East Yorkshire Renowns were swapped for some older Fleetlines with the Northern General Group in the early days of the NBC. Many of these ended up in NBC yellow as they ran in the Tyne and Wear PTE area. The sharp eyed may spot one in the film version of the Likely Lads

Chris Hough

———

Quite prescient, that. Many big fleets dual sourced and many, like Sheffield, went over to Daimler Fleetlines from AEC Regent Vs and Renowns. Although AEC deckers lasted to the end (1968/9), like most other half-cabs, they were a spent force by 1966 – very few being delivered in the last few years. [Regrettably, much the same thing happened with the Reliance about ten years later. Killed off for an inferior life-form. Tragic!]

David Oldfield

———

I always thought the Renowns bodied by builders outside the AEC/PRV group were very handsome buses. The East Lancs examples of Leigh Leicester and West Bridgford spring to mind The later NCME examples used by City of Oxford were also a smart vehicle.

Chris Hough

———

I remember reading, when AEC’s intention to build the Renown was first announced, that it was to replace the Regent V as well as the Bridgemaster. At a time of dwindling sales for front-engined buses, rationalisation did make a sort of sense. I imagine that the reason it didn’t come to pass was because, once built, the Renown was probably too pricey for operators who didn’t really need the low floor, and would have driven traditional Regent V customers to Leyland.

Peter Williamson

———

Chris. I couldn’t agree with you more about Leigh and W Bridgford’s East Lancs Renowns. very handsome.
Peter. You’re probably right about the expense. Bristol had a guaranteed customer base and so achieved it with the Lodekka.
Strange that Bristol managed two world beaters (Lodekka and RE) in particular market segments where the two giants (AEC and Leyland) could hack it.

David Oldfield

———

04/10/11 – 21:06

I was at Northern’s Percy Main depot at the time the Renown’s arrived. By that time most of our half cabs had gone, but we still had a few PD2’s & 3’s. They all had sliding cab doors on the inside that opened towards the front, however, the cab door on a Renown is on the outside and opens back over, a few drivers found to their cost that when going through the wash the cab door had to be held firmly shut or the brushes could quite easily open it and leave the driver a bit on the damp side.

Ronnie Hoye

Copyright Ian Wild.

East Yorkshire Motor Services
1961
AEC Bridgemaster B3RA 
Park Royal H45/28RD

One of East Yorkshire’s rear entrance AEC Bridgemasters. Just shows the Bridgemaster could look good given the right sort of livery, the Beverley Bar inward profile of the upper deck also helps. Photograph taken at Goole on 22nd February 1968.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

You are quite right. Why didn’t Park Royal think of it? The Beverley profile would have improved many of their 1960s offerings – not just the Bridgemaster.
But where are the number blinds? A strange omission for a normally very fastidious operator.

David Oldfield

I believe that East Yorkshire buses did not start showing route numbers until around 1963, although they were used internally and in the timetables. This was the reason that Hull Corporation had to renumber some of it’s routes in the 1 to 12 series in September, 1963.

Keith Easton

Yet another most nostalgic picture for me, as a lifelong admirer of EYMS, but from a different angle. Right up to my retirement in May 2001 I often worked this route from Arriva’s Selby Depot, and also from Pontefract. Despite quite an infrequent train service the confounded level crossing gates at Goole always seemed to be closed for an age, just so that the trains could enter and leave the adjacent station at walking pace !!

Chris Youhill

So was this a joint service between Arriva (presumably, formerly West Riding) and EYMS, or was it taken over from EYMS later? I don’t think EYMS operate to Selby today, do they?

Chris Barker

To be honest Chris B I’m not too sure about that as I only worked for Pontefract SYRT and the West Riding Depots from November 1987. Certainly though there was no sign of EYMS in Selby or Goole by then so presumably the 1986 De-regulation had caused that change. The intermediate destination blind on the Bridgemaster shows "Hemingbrough/Osgodby" and there was no EYMS presence on that road in my time, so this is an interesting query isn’t it ?

Chris Youhill

It was originally an EYMS service, but passed to West Riding, I believe in NBC rationalisation

Keith Easton

Thank you most sincerely for that explanation Keith – I’m somewhat embarrassed at not thinking of it as the NBC rationalisation scheme had some quite interesting effects here in West Yorkshire and nationally too. Its just another indication of how easily such dramatic changes can fade from the memory in the vast range of topics that are covered by we serious enthusiasts.

Chris Youhill

Yes, thanks for that. I’ve long thought that EYMS oozes interest, not only for its fleet but its history, operations, area of operation and not least the fact that it is still very much in business (independent business!) Long may it continue!

Chris Barker

The Hull to Selby route was numbered 4 by EYMS and was on licence BE3/15, so it must have been in operation prior to the 1930 Road Traffic Act, as it is in the original batch of licences granted to the company.

Keith Easton

28/06/11 – 06:29

Interesting comment on EYMS buses. I have just bought an EYMS bus a Yellow Peril MKH 84 for preservation need some work but will be worth it in the end.

Martin Chaplin

28/06/11 – 09:12

What a very enviable purchase Martin, and all the very best to you in your preservation work. My main memories of these magnificent vehicles is of travelling from Leeds to Bridlington in them when they were new and could be found on that route – with their fifty seats and enormous accommodation for holiday luggage. Later, when I was in the RAF at Patrington (Spurn Point) and occasionally "detached" to Bempton, one of these fine vehicles would appear on the last short journey from Bridlington to Bempton and, if memory serves, this journey operated at a different time almost every night of the week. What glorious days these were !!

Chris Youhill

29/06/11 – 07:00

Hi Martin, it will be great to see a "yellow peril" on the road again, the last time I saw one was in the late ‘seventies. I think that photos of the progress in the preservation would be most interesting and informative.

Keith Easton

13/02/12 – 07:29

I am also looking forward to seeing one of East Yorkshires most iconic vehicles in the shape of a "Yellow Peril " back on the road. Hull born in 1952, I had the pleasure of growing up with the Titans, Regents, Bridgemasters and Renowns – travelled many times on the Yellow Perils particularly when they were used as our school buses from Hessle to Beverley Grammar School in the early 60’s. A pictorial diary of the restoration progress would be excellent. I wish Martin good luck with his project, and hope to see MKH 84 in all its glory in the near future, maybe then we can persuade OOC or EFE to produce its first Beverley Bar model.

John Eggleton

02/05/16 – 14:00

EYMS do currently run Goole to Selby on a Sunday, having won the contract from the council about 18 months ago.

Sam Eyers

23/05/16 – 07:38

I thought I would send these along to add to the EYMS archive. One sunny Saturday in September 1961, when I was 14, we had a family day out (West Yorkshire excursion) to Bridlington and I’d been lucky enough to borrow my older brother’s Zeiss camera, with which I snapped these. It seems odd that I only took two pictures, but there were only 12 shots on a film and the processing cost me four weeks’ pocket money. How different it is now with digital. The single decker was buzzing backwards and forwards all the time I was there, and what a handsome vehicle it was!

David Rhodes

29/05/16 – 05:44

Ian Wild’s excellent print of Bridgemaster 4700 AT was, of course, taken in Selby Market Place not Goole.

David A

29/05/16 – 15:52

Two lovely pictures David R and Bridlington bus station was a real gem in those days. The double decker is, of course, on the famous number 12 route from Hull via Driffield, Bridlington, Butlin’s Filey and Cayton Bay. The route survives to this day. The very celebrated single decker is one of the AEC Regals taken over with the business of Everingham Brothers of Pocklington, hence the East Riding registration as oppose to Hull, the norm for EYMS

Chris Youhill