Kingston upon Hull Corporation Transport
1947
AEC Regent III 0961/2
Weymann H32/26R

This is quite a nice shot of an AEC Regent III just departing Hull bus station on route 50, although only the locals would know were route 50 went as there is nothing on display for its final destination. This I think would of been rather an annoying system if you were a visitor to the area as the only thing you could be sure of is that if you wanted to go to the ‘Market Place’ you were safe on this bus because that is where it is going via. I think this practice was more prevalent for some operators of mainly town services, operators of longer distance services usually had larger destination blinds showing places they went via. If you know of any operators who had strange practices regarding destination information please leave a comment.

Yet another cracking photo! Service 50 went to the pier via the old town were it connected with the Humber Ferry service which ran across to New Holland on the south bank. The service ran until July 1981 when the Humber Bridge was opened.

Paul Morfitt

Doncaster Corporation were even better on destinations: no route numbers and the blind often just showed the final destination with a single via if needed to distinguish different routes there: in at least one case (Skellow via Owston Park), the bus didn’t really go to Skellow, but stopped short at Owston Park: the via was patched out much later. Well… if you didn’t know where the bus was going, everyone would tell you!

Joe

The blind showing, Market Place, was what was known as a "via" blind showing one major part of the route, as there was only space for one line of text, this type of blind appeared during the war, as the larger figures on the blinds were the primary means of identifying the route. All native "Hullensians" knew which route they required by the number. These blinds also appeared until the advent of the "G" registered series of Atlanteans, when a true destination blind appeared.

Keith Easton

Interesting, Keith. I wonder if this was part of the wartime initiative to confuse enemy infiltrators – especially relevant in east coast ports. As you will know signposts and railway station nameboards were removed for this reason.

Stephen Ford

Yes, Stephen, I’m sure that there was an element of what you said, but the main reason for using large numerals was more mundane. As you may be aware, during the wartime blackout conditions, bus operators were required to reduce the brilliance of external displays, consequently the size of the numerals was increased in order to improve visibility at night from a distance. For the same reason trolleybus blinds, which were in black on white, were replaced by black blinds with white numerals.

Keith Easton

03/02/11 – 17:11

On the subject of uninformative destinations Eastern Counties with their use of the word Service as a destination took some beating just as useless was the use of the company title as a destination also a popular ECOC wheeze! Of course the SBG were a breed apart with their extensive use of paper stickers and nothing but a number displayed on the destination screen!

Chris Hough

03/02/11 – 20:04

Lincolnshire Road Car and Western/Southern National were also adept in later years at wasting the "via" screen on the company name or "Service No."

Stephen Ford

04/01/18 – 06:51

Another quirk of the situation in Hull was that at the time Hull Corporation showed only a route number and ‘via’ blind, the local country operator, East Yorkshire, showed a destination and (usually) ‘via’, but no route number! So Hull folk had to be adaptable, especially if they lived on one of the several routes that were shared between the two operators.

George R

06/01/18 – 06:56

Until about 1936, Portsmouth Corporation had only a small number box and destination box. After this, a larger via box/ route indicator, plus destination box appeared on the vehicles. Sadly, the destination box displayed PORTSMOUTH CORPORATION and the destination was relegated to the via box with all the places the same size letters. Postwar, the destination box actually showed the destination! Let’s remember, too, that both route letters and numbers were used, but these changed according to the direction. 17/18 or A/B, the latter very unhelpful to holidaymakers at a seaside resort!

Christopher Hebbron

Copyright Ray Soper

Chiltern Queens of Woodcote
1956
Dennis Pelican
Duple Midland B44F

This shot is from the Ray Soper gallery contribution titled "Chiltern Queens of Woodcote" click on the title if you would like to view his Gallery and comments.
The shot is shown here for indexing purposes but please feel free to make any comment regarding this vehicle either here or on the gallery.

04/07/14 – 07:46

This is the ex demonstrator which was tried out by LT in the Reigate and Caterham areas and also by A&D.
Dennis received no orders and 530BPG was purchased by Yellow Bus Services of Stoughton, Guildford in March 1957, following their vehicles in 1958 it went to Daisy Bus Service and the Trimdon Motor Services before moving to Chiltern Queens,
The body was removed and transferred in modified form to an AEC chassis in around the mid ’70s.
The Dennis chassis was seen on waste ground outside Charlton Queens garage in 1976.
Source: "Happy Family" "The story of Yellow Bus Services Stoughton" by N Hamshere and J Sutton. No ISBN number unfortunately.

John Lomas

04/07/14 – 16:24

The Reliance with this body on it was offered for sale in Bus & Coach Preservation a few years ago, and was stated to be "50% restored". Does anybody know where it is now?

Neville Mercer

05/07/14 – 17:32

David Kaye, in “Meccano Magazine” of February 1963, on his “Calling all Bus Spotters” page, said that the Pelican was designed to compete with UF single deck market, with vehicles such as the Leyland Tiger Cub, Royal Tiger and Olympic and the ubiquitous AEC Reliance, but was too late on the scene to achieve any success. After Yellow Bus were taken over by Aldershot & District, the vehicle went firstly to TMS and then Daisy of Brigg. With no mention of Chiltern Queens, it’s possible that that move took place after Feb 1963.

Chris Hebbron

06/07/14 – 08:19

As Chris indicates, the only problem with the Pelican was its late arrival, in the autumn of 1956, on a market already dominated by the Reliance and the Tiger Cub, and, at the lighter end, by Bedford. The boom years were already over, and Dennis simply missed the boat. The company recognised the reality of the situation by not putting the Pelican into production. The Guildford firm could not compete on price with AEC and Leyland, though it equalled, and sometimes bettered both on quality. In specification, the Pelican, with its 5.5 litre engine uprated to some 92 bhp and five speed constant mesh gearbox, seemed to be directed particularly at the Tiger Cub market. The Leyland had the 91 bhp O350H engine of 5.76 litres and, initially, only a four speed constant mesh gearbox was available, though a two speed axle was an option. Where driver acceptance was concerned, the Reliance beat all others hands down with its excellent all synchromesh five speed gearbox. It also had the more powerful 6.75 litre AEC AH 410 of 98 bhp, or the 7.685 litre AH 470 of 112 bhp, but these AEC wet liner engines proved to be decidedly troublesome. When bodied, all three competing models weighed about 6 tons unladen. Leyland captured much of the early BET business, but AEC soon worked its way into the company, municipal and independent sectors. There was nowhere for Dennis to go, and it wisely bowed out of the fray. (There was surely a lesson here for Guy with the Wulfrunian.) Nevertheless, the solitary Pelican then went on to a fully productive life of some eighteen years or so, which surely testifies to the initial quality of the engineering and also to the subsequent support by Dennis to keep this unique machine running.

Roger Cox

15/08/14 – 10:45

I was in Woodcote earlier this week and noticed a planning application to demolish the old depot / garage to be replaced by a small housing estate….
To be honest, I didn’t realise that it was still there and thought that it was long since converted to industrial units….
Those who might want final nostalgic visit have about eight weeks before demolition….

Stuart C

A. Mayne & Sons
1965
Regent V 2D3RA
Neepsend H41/32R

Another independent bus operator but this time from the other side of the Pennines, A. Mayne & Sons operated in the Manchester area. I must admit I know very little about A. Mayne & Sons but I have two photographs of AEC Regent Vs that are worth posting, so if anybody as any information about them please leave a comment and I will add it as an update.

This Regent had a body built by Neepsend formally Cravens of Sheffield South Yorkshire and the livery at the time if I remember correctly was a dark red body with three pale green bands, although I do stand to be corrected if you know better.

A full list of Regent V codes can be seen here.

Maroon with turquoise bands would be more accurate. In later years they adopted a red and cream livery which was much more modern-looking, but far less distinctive! Maynes sold their bus operation to Stagecoach four or five years ago, but the name is kept alive by the coaching operation based on Warrington, which is actually the former Barry Cooper business.
There is a nice story that back in the 1930’s Manchester Corporation offered to buy out the Maynes business. The reply was that this was an amazing coincidence, as Maynes were thinking of making a similar offer to MCTD!

David Jones

Another piece of interaction between Maynes and the Corporation may be worth recording. In the mid-1960s Maynes had a half-share in Manchester’s service 46 to Droylsden, as shown above, and also their own unnumbered service along the main road to Audenshaw, which ran in competition with Manchester’s trolleybuses. Since the trolleys operated under light rail legislation and were outside the Road Service Licensing system, this made Maynes the sole licensed operator of local (as opposed to limited stop) buses on the stretch of main road beyond the Droylsden turnoff. When the Corporation wanted to run motor buses on the trolley routes, they had to apply for a licence, to which Maynes objected on the grounds that it was their patch! This promised a real David and Goliath battle in the traffic court, but sense prevailed and a deal was struck instead. Maynes got the other half of the 46 (which they had always wanted) and both their objection and their Audenshaw service were withdrawn.

Peter Williamson

I’m not familiar with the "half share" referred to by Peter – but as far as I recall only Maynes operated the 46 from Stevenson Square to Droylsden [Sunnyside Road]. During the early Selnec years Maynes continued to operate the route which was renumbered 213.
The story I was told was that Maynes started the 46 route when Droylsden was still being built and the roads unfinished. When the roads were completed Manchester then wanted to operate the route as well.
Maynes are said to have objected and won their case with the only restriction being passenger pickup only between City centre and Ancoats – outbound and passenger drop off only from Ancoats to City Centre – inbound.

It is also interesting to note that up till the recent acquisition of Maynes local bus services by Stagecoach – Maynes original route 46 [subsequently 213] was their only local service which I think remained as such until the deregulation era. They then increased the number of routes between Manchester and the Ashton area. Of note is that ALL their routes went via DROYSLDEN, maintaining their original commitment to service this area.

Roy Oldham [Expat in London Ontario Canada]

According to "The Manchester Bus" by Eyre and Heaps, the 46 was jointly operated by Manchester and Maynes from its inauguration in 1958.  However, "half-share" wasn’t quite right, as I have found a table of joint services in 1962 which shows that the all-day service required 3 buses, of which 2 were Manchester’s and 1 Maynes. 
Maynes original route – started in 1926 – was from Newton Street to Kershaw Lane, Audenshaw, although inbound buses always showed "Dale Street" as that was where the alighting point was.

Peter Williamson

I cannot comment on what the "Official" arrangements were between Maynes and Manchester – all I know is that I travelled between Stevenson Sq and Pollard Street quite frequently in the late 50s to late 60s and if not using the 215/216 trolley bus would take the 46. Invariably the return trip would be on the 46 as the trolley buses didn’t return via Pollard Street. If Manchester was in fact operating two out of three vehicles the odds are that I would get one, whereas in reality it was always a Maynes bus that came.

Roy Oldham

What became of the 46 service started in 1933 as a shuttle service from Edge Lane to Manor Road which connected with the existing Audenshaw service. As that area of Droylsden developed the service was extended gradually until it reached Sunnyside Road. The inconvenience of changing buses at Edge Lane became an issue and in 1958 the service was extended into the City and was numbered 46 by Manchester Corporation who became a joint operator in the ratios previously described. Peak hour extras were additional and provided by MCT in summer and Mayne’s in the winter.
As Peter has already said above, the 46 became worked exclusively by Mayne’s following the abandonment of the Manchester trolleybus system.

David Beilby

Recently Buses Mag published an interview with Julian Peddle who at one time was Traffic Manager at Maynes, seemingly the financial arrangement with MCTD was that they paid Mayne’s a mileage rate who then paid MCT all their takings, an arrangement very beneficial to Mayne’s !

Andrew Critchlow

14/09/11 – 07:58

I was born and bred in Droylsden near the cemetery. I used the 2 Maynes services for many years until I went to London in 1959. When the Edge Lane to Sunnyside Road changed to no 46 Limited stop from Stevenson Sq I came home from work on it. I used the 215 216 to go to the City as the Maynes was usually full by the time it got to our bus stop. Sometimes I used it to go home until no 46 started as the walk from the stop on Manor Rd was shorter. When at school I used the 216 to Ashton and the Hurst or Smallshaw Circular or walked to school from Ashton market. My uncle Bill was a driver for Maynes and if I was on his no 46 going home he used to stop earlier than the bus stop so my walk was shorter. My Dad and Arthur Mayne were friends.

Alan Bevins

07/11/11 – 12:21

I use to use the Maynes bus in 1965 to get to work. I use to meet my father and we would go together on the bus from Sunnyside Road terminal to Stevenson Square and visa versa. Brilliant service and always full of people travelling in the early mornings and again at night.

Marie Mckenna

10/11/11 – 07:42

I now have a copy of the Maynes book by Venture Publications, and it gives a slightly different version from the Manchester book of the joint working arrangements on the 46, namely two Maynes buses and one Corporation rather than the other way round. Plus the peak hour extras referred to by David B.

Peter Williamson

12/03/13 – 14:05

In addition to the services listed above, Maynes also had a road service licence for the Droylsden to Audenshaw Grammar school bus which was operated as what would be known now as a commercial service. I travelled to school on one of the Regent V’s every day on this service in the 1960’s.
Later I found myself driving Fleetlines and VR’s for Maynes for a short while – very nostalgic with Ultimate ticket machines.

Bill Lear

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

12/05/13 – 06:53

In 1964 I co-organised a student- teacher PD1 Leyland decker trip to Moscow from Manchester and as I wanted to keep my PSV licence going, I drove part-time for Maynes Buses from 1965 until I left Manchester in 1978. At the time I was teaching first at Manor Road Primary and then at Bishop Greer Secondary in Gorton. I lived on Greenside Lane near the Clockhouse terminus.
My inauguration was on GUF 678 – a Leyland PD1 slow gear change, so I had no problems in satisfying the requirements. (the drivers used to say "You can light a fag in between gear changes")
Mr Palmer was the manager under Arthur Mayne Jnr. and Alex was the mechanic. I drove on the last Kershaw Lane route (Dec 31st 1965) when they changed the route from trolley buses and swopped it for the 46 Droylsden Route.
My first trip from Droylsden, Market Street to Mayne Road was a different story. I was given an AEC Regent II FT 571 with a quick crash box change and I could not find any of the gears. I got the timing wrong and could not stop with the vacuum brakes at Edge Lane Traffic lights. With the help of the passengers they directed me to Mayne Road. Phew! I thought my days of driving for Maynes were over, but they were just beginning.
Last journey was on a Bristol VR to Rochdale VJA 666S.
First new bus was on a Sunday morning in July 1965 Regent V CXJ 520C. It had air brakes and stopping was very fierce. I remember one man hitting the bulkhead as I braked for Market Street on route to Kershaw Lane, Audenshaw. Oh Dear !!
I could share many comments as I drove all the fleet of deckers. My favourite was Ex Oxford synchro 27ft 7194 H. The pre selectors were also good ECY 874.

John Brown

04/12/18 – 07:17

Just a very small correction to John Brown (above), 7194 H had, prior to Maynes, been an AEC demonstrator, but I believe it did carry City Of Oxford Motor Services livery at the time.

David Call