Copyright Ken Jones

Coventry Corporation Transport  
1940
Daimler COG5/40
Park Royal B38F

This bus was new in 1940, as fleet number 244, and sold on to Derby Corporation in 1949 where it took fleet number 47. Being non-standard in Derby, it was used mainly for driver training. Passing to Derby Museums, it was off the road from 1979 onwards. In 2009 it was placed on long term loan to Roger Burdett in return for restoration, and it returned to the road in the Spring of 2012. Roger has had the vehicle immaculately restored into Coventry Corporation Transport livery both inside and out and looks as good as the day it was delivered if not better. This is the first time in 63 years that it has carried this livery.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ken Jones

A full list of Daimler codes can be seen here.

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30/10/12 – 15:23

This vehicle is scheduled to be at the Lincoln rally this coming Sunday 04/11 along with Coventry Double Decker 334.

Ken Jones

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31/10/12 – 08:49

Coventry = Daimler buses (well, usually!) and Roger Burdett = outstanding restoration. What more needs to be said?

Pete Davies

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31/10/12 – 10:23

Bravo?

David Oldfield

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31/10/12 – 17:31

What a Wonderful livery, an Excellent paint job makes you feel you could put your hand into it. The interior is just as good with a lovely clean ceiling.

David J Henighan

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02/11/12 – 07:30

All of Roger Burdetts buses & coaches all excellently restored to a good finish
Also Ken Jones for his photographs he’s taken of Rogers vehicles.

Steve Jillings

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05/11/12 – 15:17

An excellent event at Lincoln yesterday, despite the cloudy and sometimes wet weather.

Geoff Kerr

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05/11/12 – 15:55

I meant to say I rode on it into Lincoln. Another website gives the seating as B38F, a high figure for a half-cab; 35 is more usual. but there wasn’t much legroom!

Geoff Kerr

Thanks Geoff I have filled in the ??s, it is a bit high isn’t it.
Peter

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15/11/12 – 14:57

Coventry were renowned for pushing seating to the limit. The CVAs from 1947 had 60 seats and CVGs in the late 50s were up at 63.
The COG seating is tight 38 seats in a 26ft vehicle is nearly unique. Lack of seat comfort is why I am unlikely to take it to rallies outside the Midlands.

Roger Burdett

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15/11/12 – 15:51

Is it not a COG5/40, the variant single deck Daimler with a very compact cab/engine section, so designed to gain maximum (40 = 40 seats) seating capacity, and only fitted with a Gardner "5"?
Coventry had finalised the design configuration for a 60 seat 4 wheel double decker by 1939, although Daimler were also developing a 6 wheel double deck chassis, the COG6/60 as a 60 seater (plus) for Leicester, when war broke out.
Back to the COG5/40 this was readily identified by its vertical radiator, when the contemporary deckers had sloping radiators, and was represented in several fleets, Lancaster being one.
One of the most attractive preserved buses I have ever seen, and I am still sorry I could not make the recent Lincoln event to see it!

John Whitaker

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15/11/12 – 16:52

A good number of North Western pre and immediate post war Bristols previously with 31 and 35 seats were rebodied by Willowbrook in the early 1950s and received 38 seats in their new bodies. Though the chassis were lengthened to 27ft 6ins they were hardly the most comfortable of vehicles.

Phil Blinkhorn

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16/11/12 – 15:42

In answer to John’s question it is a COG5/40 but I am not sure the 40 referred to seat numbers

Roger Burdett

I have changed the code adding /40.
Peter

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17/11/12 – 07:08

John Whitaker is correct. According to the ever reliable Alan Townsin in his book on the Daimler marque, the ’40’ did refer to the potential seating capacity of the COG5/40, but this optimistic figure was achieved only by two buses built for Lancaster Corporation in 1936, which had a rearward facing seat for five at the front. Several bodybuilders achieved a capacity of 39, however, though one imagines that legroom would have been decidedly constrained. As John has accurately stated, the engine was always a 5LW behind a vertical radiator which lacked a fan (the Gardner was always a cool runner), and the engine bay and bonnet assembly was thereby reduced in length to 3ft 11.5inches, a full 8 inches less than that of the COG5 double decker.

Roger Cox

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17/11/12 – 08:45

I thought Roger and others might like to see the attached photograph of a vintage line-up.
It was taken at Derby’s Ascot Drive depot on 29th November 1970. We had travelled down in preserved Oldham Crossley 368 (FBU 827) – a vehicle I was to later own for some years – to collect Derby Crossley 111 (CRC 911), which had just been bought for preservation by Mike Howarth. This was, with the possible exception of Joseph Wood’s example, the last Crossley double-decker in service and also had one of the last Brush bodies built.
A small hand-over ceremony was arranged with the Fleet Engineer at Derby, John Horrocks, who was himself an enthusiast and preservationist and owned Derby Daimler 27 (ACH 627), which is the fourth vehicle in this line up after Roger’s Coventry Daimler.
Happily all four vehicles still exist today although it saddens me greatly that Oldham 368 hasn’t been on the road since about eight months after this picture was taken. Fortunately for a 1950 bus I believe it has yet to spend a first night outdoors, remarkably it has always been kept under cover. The corrosion in this case started bottom up, with combatting the effects of road salt being the main focus of all the work I did on it.
Incidentally, the chassis numbers of these two Oldham and Derby Crossleys were just three apart.

David Beilby

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17/11/12 – 14:34

A splendid picture, David. I have a tremendous respect for those such as you who take on the huge task of bus preservation. Only those who have tried it can truly appreciate the effort, expense and dedication involved. We are all the richer for the results.

Roger Cox

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17/11/12 – 16:05

…..and so say all of us, Roger.

David Oldfield

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06/02/14 – 08:35

What a joy it was to see the photo’s of Coventry buses. As an ex employee before nationalisation, I’m now retired and moved back to COV after spending time with Midland Red and East Kent (Office & Platform) I am trying to obtain a fleet list for Coventry Transport for the period 1955 to when it became West Midland. If anyone can help I would be most grateful.
I will be posting an article on Pool Meadow in the 50’s and 60’s, which was where all bus enthusiasts of every age spent there leisure time. Anyone who was around at that time,I would be pleased to share our memories.

Scotty

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07/02/14 – 06:47

You can find a complete list of every CCT bus from 1914 to 1974 at //www.cct-society.org.uk/corporation/buses.htm.

Scotty

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16/06/20 – 06:58

Just wondering about two Coventry buses in Bangkok, one had been converted to a tow vehicle, the other was a standard Bus. This would have been 2012 I think, we were traveling down river on a water bus and I noticed the Coventry livery as we passed. Unfortunately there wasn’t time but I have often wondered how they came to be there. As I left Coventry in 1970 it did spark my interest but since then I have never had the chance to follow it up

Bill Ballington

 

Lancaster City Transport
1969
Seddon RU
Pennine B??F

Much has been written, on this website and elsewhere, about the Seddon Pennine. Most of such text is not complimentary. Southampton City Transport had several, with bids for their Gardner engines being far higher than bids for the complete vehicle when they were withdrawn.
TBU 598G was the demonstrator, which Lancaster acquired via Midland Red after that operator had taken over Green Bus of Rugeley. The wife of one of my office colleagues could not get out of her mind the thought that Rugelli [as she pronounced it] was in Wales so, whenever they went from Winchester to York, she would ask "Why are we going via Wales?" I digress!
It is clear that 598, to give her the Lancaster nomenclature, is in no condition for service in this view inside Heysham Road garage on 20 May 1975. Note the missing door for the engine compartment, and the cleaner’s broom, which is having a rest.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

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28/10/12 – 10:14

Perhaps the broom was propping the body up!
I had a ride from Huddersfield to Stocksmoor on it (the bus, not the broom) when it was on demonstration to Huddersfield Corporation.

Eric Bawden

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28/10/12 – 11:40

An apropriate time of the year to be talking about the broom.

Ken Jones

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28/10/12 – 11:41

Glad you clarified the means of transport Eric, given the time of year!!! As far as the RU goes, I had a connection with these as I sold some internal panelling to Seddon Pennine for the Crosville order which meant a good deal of shuttling between Crane Wharf Chester and Oldham. I worked for Huntley Boorne and Stevens of Reading and they, apart from making tin boxes for Huntley and Palmers – of which they were an offshoot, had a product range of decorative PVC finishes laminated to a variety of metals. Most ECW bodies from around 1967 had some interior panels in this material (as was the "wood" finish to the glove box on some Mk 3 Ford Cortinas and the "wood" embellishment on the side of the Mini Countryman) and Crosville wanted certain interior panels on their RUs to match as the material was easy to clean and impervious to tobacco.

There were great expectations for the RU. Those with Seddon Pennine (or to be exact Pennine Coachcraft) bodies fared worse than those from other bodybuilders though mechanical problems far outweighed those of the bodywork.

Phil Blinkhorn

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28/10/12 – 17:05

Indeed, Ken. My mother in law still rides hers, at 92!

Pete Davies

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29/10/12 – 07:14

What!!??
Pete, are you saying your 92 year old mother in law still has a 1969 Seddon Pennine RU?

Eric Bawden

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29/10/12 – 11:03

No, Eric! Just a broom.

Pete Davies

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29/10/12 – 11:03

Seddon seemed to drop the ‘Pennine Coachcraft’ name sometime in the late ’60s/early ’70s. Morecambe & Heysham AEC Swifts 1-7 (new in 1967) arrived with ‘Pennine Coachcraft’ bodies, but the bodies on Seddon RUs 11-6 (new c1972/3) were known as simply ‘Seddon’, as were those on similar-vintage Lancaster Leopards 116-21.

David Call

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The history of Pennine Coachcraft is, as far as I can make out from published information and my own records, as follows:
Seddon was producing its own cabs and later bodies for trucks and vans from the 1940s and throughout the 1950s.
It started to build bus bodies in penny numbers in the late 1940s and this grew during the 1950s, most going for export.
Pennine Coachcraft was registered as a company in 1960 and, for accounting and management purposes, was treated as a separate company in the group, though sharing Seddon’s truck and bus chassis site, building commercial vehicle cabs and bodies and bus/coach bodies.
From 1966 Seddon simplified its type names. Bus/coach production was based on chassis known as Seddon Pennines of various marques, of which the RU was just one. So a Seddon Pennine RU bodied by Pennine Coachcraft would be a Seddon Pennine RU/Pennine whilst one bodied by Plaxton would be a Seddon Pennine RU/Plaxton. Other chassis were bodied, for instance, an AEC Swift would become an AEC/Pennine.
When the RU was launched it was originally marketed as the Seddon Pennine RU/Pennine and certainly the Crosville order was couched in those terms but as orders came in for the type and other bodybuilders were specified, Seddon decided that the Pennine name would be linked only to the bus and coach chassis so sometime in the period 1970-1972 the Pennine Coachcraft badging was replaced by Seddon though the legal entity was maintained and Huntley Boorne and Stevens were still invoicing Pennine Coachcraft when I left in June 1971.

Phil Blinkhorn

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31/10/12 – 14:47

The Seddon Pennine RU was a grave disappointment to a bus operating industry utterly fed up with the take it or leave it attitude of the Stokes era British Leyland. Operators hoped that the RU would become a real challenger to the dubious Panther/Swift offerings, and become a vehicle comparable with the superb Bristol RE, which Leyland was determined to kill off to enhance the market prospects of the National. Unfortunately, the RU had serious design deficiencies, particularly the exceedingly short prop shaft between the gearbox output and the rear axle, which led to regular failures. Unlike all its other contemporary competitors, the RE took the drive forward to the gearbox set ahead of the rear axle, and then back again to the differential. Actually, this principle had been pioneered some years earlier by a tiny firm in New Addington, Croydon, called Motor Traction, which produced the Rutland Clipper in the mid 1950s. This had a Perkins R6 mounted vertically in line at the rear, and the drive was taken forward to an amidships mounted transfer gearbox that drove the prop shaft back to the rear axle. Only two were made, both with Whitson bodies, but, lacking a camera back in the days of my long gone impoverished youth (the youth is long gone, not the impoverishment), I have no pictures, though I remember seeing one about the Croydon area quite regularly at the time. There is currently a picture of the Clipper at this site:- www.ebay.co.uk/  but it may not be around for much longer.

Roger Cox

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31/10/12 – 17:38

The "take it or leave it" attitude Roger mentions led to the demise of Leyland’s trucks as well as their buses. Hauliers noticed that certain European manufacturers were producing lorry cabs with sleeping accommodation, but the BL attitude was that "British truck drivers don’t sleep in their cabs" and didn’t respond. My brother in law is a retired long-distance truck driver. Guess what makes he would normally be expected to drive, and sleep aboard, from about the mid 1970s . . . They weren’t UK-built!

Pete Davies

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01/11/12 – 07:05

I have endeavoured to copy the Rutland Clipper advert, and I attach it here. It isn’t very good, but it is possibly better than nothing. Pictures of this very rare machine are equally rare.

Roger Cox

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01/11/12 – 10:03

It looks as if the photo was taken at Northolt airfield. Whilst London Airport (Heathrow) was active at the time of the photo Northolt was the "home" of the BEA Viking and one is in the background. BEA eventually closed its Northolt base in 1954

Phil Blinkhorn

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01/11/12 – 11:29

I assume, Phil, that this was unrelated to RAF Northolt, or did they share or the RAF take over later?

Chris Hebbron

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01/11/12 – 16:50

I believe Northolt is still a joint civil and RAF field.

David Oldfield

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01/11/12 – 16:50

When London Airport (Heathrow) opened in May 1946 it was just a collection of runways, prefabs and tents. BOAC and other airlines moved in.
BEA was formed out of BOAC in January 1946 and was initially based at Croydon. With there being little room at the new London Airport and Croydon being seen as too restricted for expansion, the airline moved its base to Northolt in March 1946.
In 1950 BEA operated the world’s first turboprop service with one of the Viscount prototypes from Northolt to Paris Le Bourget.
Alitalia, Aer Lingus, SAS and Swissair all used Northolt before moving to Heathrow.
In 1952 Northolt was the busiest airport in Europe with over 50,000 movements
In April 1950 BEA operated its first service from what is now Heathrow and over the next four years gradually transferred its services there, the last routes at Northolt being domestic flights with DC3s and Vikings. The last BEA flight out of Northolt was a DC3 in October 1954.
Northolt was opened in May 1915 and the RFC/RAF has operated from there ever since, making it the RAF station with the longest continuous use. It was a fighter base in WW2 and fighters appeared again in 2012 as part of the exclusion patrol arrangements for the Olympics.
Currently the airfield houses RAF communications aircraft and helicopters as well as a range of admin sections. It also has civilian traffic again as a number of business flights operate to/from there.

Phil Blinkhorn

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02/11/12 – 07:26

Thx, Phil – very interesting.

Chris Hebbron

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26/11/12 – 08:34

In 1975, when the photo was taken the undertaking’s title was "Lancaster City Council Transport Department. The change took place after the Lancaster and Morecambe & Heysham fleets amalgamated in 1974.

Jim Davies

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11/12/12 – 11:38

Here’s a view of the bus while it was still a demonstrator for Seddon, at the Rugeley premises of Green Bus on 20 December 1970. Alongside it is one of the operator’s pair of Seddon Pennine 4 buses (20, YRF 136H) bought the previous year.

Alan Murray-Rust

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10/04/15 – 10:51

Although 598 is a demonstrator vehicle, as far as I’m aware, Morecambe & Heysham as then was, took delivery of all of 11-16 prior to the arrival of 598. They all worked the route past my home at the time, & I travelled on all of them regularly, along with the M&H Swifts. Once Lancaster took over the running of both fleets, they were all living on borrowed time, as Lancaster pursued an all Leopard/Atlantean policy – the whole fleet became common user, & there were probably understandable doubts as to the abilities of the Swifts & Seddons to climb some of Lancaster’s stiff gradients, especially on the slog up to Moor Hospital. For the same reason, whenever a M&H double decker was used on the joint University U1-U3 service, the vehicle was always one of the 5 Leylands (87-91), & never a Regent.

Andy Richmond

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10/04/15 – 16:59

Andy,
Thank you for your thoughts. I had moved south by the time of Local Government Reorganisation in 1974, and was only "visiting" when I took this photo. According to the PSVC listings, TBU came with quite a history. New in March 1969, she passed to Green Bus in May 1971, then to Midland Red in November 1973. They sold her to Ensign and Lancaster bought her from Ensign in October 1974. She entered service in Lancaster in March 1975. PSVC shows her as having been withdrawn in March 1977, passing via a couple of dealers to Northern Ireland.

Pete Davies

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13/06/16 – 05:52

When the U1 – H3 services started Morecambe regularly used one of the Regent V with Massey bodies numbers 82-86. The route ran past my parents house so I often saw them.
Incidentally 84 from this batch was the only M&H bus at that time to have platform doors supposedly for safety when used on school services !!!

Keith Wardle

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13/06/16 – 11:02

Thank you, Keith! Being a resident of the maroon and cream territory next door, I saw the green and creams only at irregular intervals and this particular one even more rarely. If this particular Regent had platform doors. It seemed so out of place when none of the others did!

Pete Davies

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13/06/16 – 11:03

Like Andy R, I can only remember Morecambe & Heysham using PD2s on the University services, the PD2s being of course Morecambe’s front line dds at the time. I’ll happily be outvoted, though, if anyone else has recollections from the period.
As for Regent V no. 84, I don’t recall it being used on school services, particularly, in fact the only time I remember it having a regular run was when, for a few years, it worked the White Lund Corner to Overton service, which had a vehicle requirement of one bus. In later years, however, it may have done the afternoon Morecambe Grammar School to Bolton-le-Sands extra, but I’m not sure. Does anyone know if platform doors were fitted from new? The answer to this question was probably contained in Lancaster’s 1978 jubilee booklet, a copy of which I no longer possess.
As to the ex-M&H Swifts being capable of climbing Lancaster’s hills, I think the Swifts would have had a power/weight ratio at least equal to that of Lancaster’s Tiger Cubs, and with the RUs it would definitely have been superior, the Tiger Cubs having been standard fare on the Moor Hospital service for several years. Size would have probably been a greater consideration, I can’t now remember whether anything bigger than 30′ ever ran to Moor Hospital (or Williamson Park).

David Call

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13/06/16 – 13:03

David, to answer your query about platform doors on Morecambe & Heysham 84 – YES. According to the PSVC listing, 81 to 83 and 85, 86 were H56R when delivered. 84 was H56RD.

Pete Davies

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14/06/16 – 06:01

The quote about 84 being ordered with doors for schools services was made by a member of the transport committee when the buses were delivered and was reported in the Morecambe Visitor. I never saw it used on such services although it might have prevented me and my mates leaping off the open platform several yards before the stop. None of us suffered any accidents from this daft behaviour.

Keith Wardle

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27/06/16 – 11:09

TBU 598G finished its’ days with Ardglass GAA carrying players to matches. It is seen here parked in Ardglass at the side of the Ulsterbus sub-depot there. This photo was taken shortly after its’ arrival – I am not sure that happened to it subsequently but would guess it was scrapped.
www.flickr.com/photos/  (The photo is my own and is watermarked as such)

Bill Headley

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28/06/16 – 06:24

Bill, Thanks for your comment. 598 is noted in the PSVC fleetlist as having arrived with Mulhall, Ardglas, in 2/78 and as having gone to Kidds (dealer), Maze, by 9/80. Your guess about what happened after that is almost certainly correct!

Pete Davies

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23/06/17 – 06:50

I drove her at Whieldons and always found her a great little motor, it was a popular bus and was very reliable, other a diff problem in 1971 which took a couple of weeks to arrive, but considering that TBU had been passed around many firms and had worked extremely hard, perhaps understandable. Its problems started at Midland Red Tamworth, when it was expected to be driven without having the water topped up, not the best idea perhaps!!! This was the first RU, what a shame it wasn’t saved.

Bryan Yates

Copyright Paul Haywood

CIE (Coras Iompair Eireann)
1970
Leyland Atlantean PDR1A/1
CIE/MSL H43/31D

Ireland’s national transport authority – CIE – came late to the rear-engine bus scene. Although they had been wooed by Leyland from an early date (and even trying a Guy Wulfrunian), the first buses from an initial order for 341 Atlantean PDR1/1′s did not enter service until late 1966, known as the ‘D’ type. Subsequent batches brought the total number of PDR1’s to an amazing 602 by 1974, followed by a further 238 AN68/1’s by 1977.
To reduce costs and to give work to CIE staff, all the chassis came in knocked-down form for local assembly and, because CIE were unimpressed with the box-like shape of early Atlanteans, they were fitted with these unusual CIE/Metal Sections bodies. The first 218 were fitted with a front-entrance 78-seat body but the remainder had 74-seat dual-entrance bodies in the certain expectation of one-person operation which, because of local union objections, never materialised until 1986, by which time many of the early examples had been withdrawn.
Leyland’s notoriously unreliable vehicle performance, spares availability and after-sales service during the 1970s finally exhausted CIE’s patience, and many Atlanteans (and Leopards) had to be re-engined by DAF and GM. In a desperate attempt to break away from their reliance on British supplies, and to create a totally home-grown bus industry, CIE came up with the unique German-designed, GM-engined Bombardier buses in the early 1980s which were built in Shannon – but that’s another story.
This photo of D353 shows one of the 1970 batch of PDR1A/1’s on Dublin’s O’Connell Street in 1984, two years before CIE decided to split its bus and train divisions into separate companies (Irish Bus, Dublin Bus and Irish Rail). It is seen wearing the thankfully short-lived tan livery which replaced the smarter blue and cream scheme, before giving way to a smart two-tone green as seen on the Bombardier in the photograph.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Paul Haywood

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26/10/12 – 07:37

A cast iron contender for the Ugly Bus page.

Phil Blinkhorn

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26/10/12 – 10:11

Exactly my reaction, too, Phil! Looks like CIE’s experience with Atlanteans mirrored M&D’s experience, also.

Roy Burke

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26/10/12 – 10:12

Yes, Phil, but how high would it be in the ratings, bearing in mind what ugly ducklings are on that page already?
Too new for this site, but I have a view of one of the tan-liveried ones (Van Hool/McArdle body) on parade in Southampton for "Committee Inspection", alongside the usual East Lancs product in July 1975.
I was under the impression that CIE had a green and cream livery – the one with the flying snail logo – before the tan, and then they went to the blue and cream one which I’ve seen at Duxford a couple of times, before going to two-tone green. Liverpool and Birmingham respectively spring to mind, but whose livery inspired the tan? More important, how far adrift from reality is my memory?

Pete Davies

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26/10/12 – 10:20

Amazing Phil – I read that bit about CIE/Metal Sections bodies, but I didn’t realise the metal sections were cast iron!

Stephen Ford

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26/10/12 – 14:26

Pete,
The double decker liveries were: pre war and into the late 1940s mid green with three white bands
Late 1940s to 1961 the green was much darker and the bands were painted light green.
From the 1961 the colour scheme was gradually changed across the fleet to a blue and cream one reminiscent of Birmingham’s, including the sandy coloured roof, though this feature was deleted on repainting. The first Atlanteans appeared in that scheme before the adoption of the scheme shown above, which was not applied to front engined double deckers.

Phil Blinkhorn

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26/10/12 – 17:27

Baffling, isn’t how in Dublin the buses were ever Black and Tan? This body had the bookends look with sloping front and back- a precursor of the Olympic "Routemaster"? Works no better…. but then a sort of nod to Liverpool with the peak. The side window frames slope one way, and the upper front deck the other. The strong (that’s the answer) green now looks good, as did the original green- with those Gaelic bus stop signs.The old CIE logo was (also?) a circle of segments (if you follow). If you want to see lots of buses (no wonder the fleet is huge) go to Dublin: the only way to get around is the bus.
Off topic but still Leyland: what were those two Titans tantalisingly in the background in the Antiques Roadshow last Sunday? Beautiful greeny/goldy livery on one, despite what I just said….

Joe

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27/10/12 – 06:23

Thanks, Phil.

Pete Davies

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27/10/12 – 06:25

The titans were a Massey bodied PD2 late of Birkenhead in blue and cream and the other one with an MCW body once belonged to Wallasey.

Phil Blinkhorn

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27/10/12 – 06:27

Sorry, Joe, I cant give you a definite answer as I didn’t see the programme. However, it came from Port Sunlight so the most likely answer is that the blue one would have been either one of the two preserved Leyland’s from Birkenhead Corporation fleet. Both are Massey bodied, BG 9225 is a 1946 Titan PD1/A and FBG 910 is a 1958 PD2/40. I don’t know where the green/gold vehicle would be from, unless of course it was both of them and one had been given a repaint for some special event and will be returned to its correct livery at a later date

Ronnie Hoye

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27/10/12 – 09:36

Joe, you’re right about the strange choice of liveries used by CIE over the years. The original green was logical enough considering their history, but to go black and tan for the buses (and – don’t forget – the railways) always seemed perverse considering the baggage that those colours carried. You say the only way to get around Dublin is by bus, but don’t forget their two superb tram lines and the extensive Dublin Area Rapid Transit railway which have transformed the city’s transport network in recent years.

Paul Haywood

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03/01/13 – 13:02

As an Irish person (and transport photographer) I feel I have to correct comments made here. We never had a black and tan bus livery anywhere in Ireland. The buttermilk tan livery, as shown in the picture at the top of this page, replaced a livery known as monstral blue and cream, which looked very similar to black and white, the blue was very dark and the cream was very light! Then of course when C.I.E was spilt in 1987 the Atlanteans took on red and white Bus Eireann livery or Dublin Bus Green, depending on which of the 2 companies they were working for.
As I can’t post links here check out my flickr page, under the name irishmanufan, in the collections fotopic rescue and rallies and preserved buses to see pictures of Irish Atleanteans in monstral blue and cream, butter milk tan and Dublin Bus Green. 2 are standard D’s (PDR1) and one is an AN68.

Linda

Just include the url if you want to post a link. Irishmanufan

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03/01/13 – 15:29

Fair point, Linda, but "black and tan" has been a description long used for this CIE livery (and particularly for the railways of this period) by many enthusiasts both British and Irish, rightly or wrongly. As you will know better than me, the shade of "tan" on the bus illustrated here varied considerably between batches and overhauls and some were distinctly darker (and more "tan") than shown here. The point of the postings is to say "good riddance" to this livery, regardless of how it’s described, when we consider the more attractive liveries that were used before and since this period.

Paul Haywood

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03/01/13 – 15:30

The blue CIE livery was in some ways a copy of the Birmingham livery and was applied in similar manner. No operator would dare to run buses in the Republic in black and tan!

Chris Hough

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04/01/13 – 14:07

I’m still baffled. If you were going to use "buttermilk tan", it is hardly tactful to team it with "Guinness black" wheels. The original West Yorkshire Metro livery was, if I recall, Buttermilk (lighter than this) with a gentle (emerald) green- and red wheels? That would have done the trick.
Fortunately, caramac clearly didn’t last long: could have been worse: pink & blue with fuzzy bits.

Joe

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08/02/13 – 06:40

This livery was NEVER described as Black & Tan on C.I.E buses…The correct livery was Middle Buff made by British Paints Ltd and its reference no. is BS 350…I know this as Liam Dunne, no less told me when I did stand work with him at the Commercial Motor Show in Earls Court in 1974 and later at the NEC in 1978..Liam was C.M.E of C.I.E Road Services and later M.D of Van Hool McArdle in Spa Rd Dublin.. Hope this helps..

David O’Connor

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14/04/13 – 08:02

Well I never heard the original D class Atlanteans described as ugly before. They were a significant advance on other bodies back in 1966.

tarabuses

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Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

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18/10/13 – 18:35

I’ve just bought a new scanner and got a far better scan of the CIE Dublin Atlantean. This shows a more accurate "tan" which may or may not settle the "black and tan" controversy.

Paul Haywood