Copyright John Stringer

South Notts Bus Co Ltd
1951
Leyland Titan PD2/12
Leyland L53R

A fine array of Leyland Titans caught in Loughborough Bus Station in early 1970. On the left is South Notts. 48 (MRR 338) a PD2/12 with Leyland L27/26R body new in 1951. Behind it is one of their PD3’s with unusual Northern Counties forward entrance lowbridge bodies. To the right is Barton 834 (DJF 349), a venerable PD1 with Leyland H30/26R body, new to Leicester City Transport as its 248 in 1946, and purchased by Barton in 1959.

Photograph and Copy contributed by John Stringer

A full list of Titan codes can be seen here.

27/01/13 – 11:49

That’s a lovely surprise on a Sunday morning! Loughborough was one of my regular haunts in the early 1970s and your photograph made me feel that I’d travelled back in time. South Notts were a classy act and one of my favourite independents. By 1973 I was living in Nottingham, got married there (on a very low budget) and travelled from the registry office to the reception aboard a South Notts Lowlander from Broadmarsh to Clifton. Fond memories.
If I ever get round to writing "Independent Buses in Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire" (should be around 2015 if I’m still compus menti by then!), I’d love to use this image on the front cover.

Neville Mercer

27/01/13 – 12:36

No problem Neville.

John Stringer

27/01/13 – 12:37

Neville, I didn’t know such a thing was in the pipeline. That’s a lovely surprise for me on a Sunday morning! Having been born and bred on the Derbys/Notts border, I have memories of some of the operators and a great fascination for the ones which were before my time. I wish you the best of luck with it and look forward to it very eagerly indeed!

Chris Barker

27/01/13 – 16:32

One of my favourite independents too, Neville, having lived in Loughborough and surrounds since 1968! I do vaguely remember riding on this bus, and, more vividly, the later Weymann bodied ones.
A truly fascinating and well run fleet, and a garage at Gotham which I could never drive past.
I do have a full fleet list for South Notts, should anyone be interested, and I would love to know of any progress on the (LT2?) Lion at Ruddington.

John Whitaker

28/01/13 – 13:35

The PD2 was almost certainly operating as a duplicate to the PD3. South Notts always operated a duplicates policy, rather than improving the basic frequency, with the result that at busy times one advertised journey could consist of five buses. The two from Loughborough would be joined by a further one from East Leake, yet another from Gotham and a final one from Clifton. When Nottingham City Transport took over the business, the frequency was increased to a regular 15 minute interval between Nottingham and Loughborough with no increase in the vehicle output required. What this view also shows is how attractive the final Leyland body design was even in lowbridge format. With other manufacturers, the lowbridge version looked too much like a squeezed version of the highbridge original.

Alan Murray-Rust

29/01/13 – 06:44

I wonder if the duplication policy was due to fact that in those regulated days they probably would have had any application to increase frequencies refused. Three different operators ran three different routes and although it’s unlikely that Barton, being a close associate, would have objected, perhaps Trent would have raised an objection on the grounds that increased frequency could have abstracted end to end users. I’m sure British Rail would have objected too. Nevertheless, for anyone wishing to travel from Loughborough to Nottingham, what a fabulous choice of vehicles!

Chris Barker

29/01/13 – 10:05

My word Alan, FIVE vehicles on one scheduled departure !! I thought we probably held the record at Samuel Ledgard’s with four (all double deckers as a rule) on the 5.30 pm weekday departure from Leeds (King Street) to Ilkley. First in line was the 5.27pm to Rawdon (app 8 miles) followed by the 5.28pm to Guiseley White Cross (app 10 miles) and 5.29pm and 5.30pm to Ilkley (16 miles), the latter being the normal service vehicle. All were very well loaded at the terminus stop and, once on the road, virtually a full load was carried on each. These were the days when, other than monthly contract tickets, almost every passenger paid the full fare, or used the homeward journey on Workman Returns, and operators knew where they stood as far as revenue and outgoings stood.

Chris Youhill

29/01/13 – 15:18

You’re so right, Chris B. They were not such halcyon days for small operators, with the Traffic Commissioners to contend with and protectionism reigning supreme, not always in the passengers’ interest. You only have to read the book about Basil Williams (Hants & Sussex) fights to see the difficulties. I know some folk dislike/despise deregulation, but the previous system was far from perfect. In modern parlance, we need a ‘middle way’!

Chris Hebbron

29/01/13 – 15:19

Chris B may well be right. I certainly don’t think Barton would have objected – their Nottingham to Loughborough 10 was too long and circuitous, and probably little used for through journeys.(The ex-Leicester PD1 is a Kegworth short working – the through service was invariably a coach). From Nottingham the route was Beeston, Chilwell, Long Eaton, Kegworth, Sutton Bonington and Hathern (with some journeys also diverting to serve Lockington, Hemington and/or Kingston on Soar). Overall journey time was about 1 hour 20. Trent with their route 66 (straight down the A60) was the competitor for direct journeys.

Stephen Ford

29/01/13 – 18:05

Chris H, we had a middle way. The Fowler Transport Act of 1980 was trumpeted for its deregulation of coach services, but this much publicised feature masked a much more important change – the presumption in favour of applicants for Road Service Licences, which replaced the often insurmountable bias towards existing licence holders. The old stranglehold of the big companies was removed at a stroke. Deregulation had nothing to do with improving the state of the bus industry. It was driven by Ridley’s rabid hatred of state enterprise, and his determination to inflict damage upon the large Transport and General Workers’ Union, and thus Labour Party funding. His motivation was totally political. Deregulation has been a disaster. Remember Darlington Corporation and similar instances of bullying by the big boys. We now have powerful regional monopolies that can do exactly as they please and charge the public whatever they wish.

Roger Cox

30/01/13 – 06:19

If I recall correctly, Roger, the Fowler Act did introduce limited de-regulation and with it introduced government subsidies for services for which reasonable fares were being charged, but which were unprofitable. However, certain very Left-Wing Labour authorities (GLC, Merseyside and South Yorkshire are three that come to mind) cynically ‘milked ’ the subsidy system by charging unreasonably low fares and producing loss-making situations and would not respond to government edicts to put the fares up again. The drain on the public purse was such that a government reaction was inevitable. And the rest, as they say, is history!

Chris Hebbron

30/01/13 – 06:20

I understand that under Road Service Licensing duplicate journeys could be operated up to five minutes in advance of a scheduled departure and up to five minutes after a scheduled departure without the need to register the additional journeys. This arrangement was used by Barton Transport in the late forties and early fifties, I further understand, on their Nottingham to Derby service thus turning a 15 minute service into a five minute service at various times on a Saturday.

Michael Elliott

30/01/13 – 11:29

As a regular on the Nottingham to Loughborough service in 1972-74 I can assure you that South Notts received very little "end to end" competition from the Trent operation – the fares at that time were almost double those of South Notts and the journey time almost the same. And people still wonder why I prefer independents!

Neville Mercer

30/01/13 – 11:30

I believe there was a legal requirement that vehicles operating duplicate journeys had to display a sign indicating such. Many operators simply displayed DUPLICATE on the destination screen, in the case of Trent, most of their half cab vehicles had a small hinged cast plate under the canopy which could be folded down when required. By the time of John’s photograph, does anyone know if this requirement had been rescinded?

Chris Barker

30/01/13 – 13:55

I was also going to mention Trent’s duplicate plates. Many operators just used the destination blind, which was fine as long as the bus was immediately behind the vehicle it was shadowing, but that didn’t always happen. I remember my mum having a row with the conductress after boarding a bus so destined at Ollerton, when returning to Nottingham. After presenting her (Trent) return ticket, the conductress asked "Can’t you read? This is the Mansfield bus." "Well that’s not what it says on the front." "Oh yes it is." "Oh no it isn’t" "Oh yes it is." "Well stop the bus and go and look for yourself then!"

Stephen Ford

30/01/13 – 17:34

Chris, there is nothing wrong in principle with the support of public transport with public funds. The rail system receives enormous sums in support, and Transport for London receives a hugely disproportionate subsidy in comparison with the provinces. The effect of deregulation upon bus patronage in metropolitan areas has been devastating, and having wreaked their damage in the cause of profiteering, several of the big groups are now withdrawing from major provincial conurbations and smaller urban concentrations. It isn’t that these areas cannot be run profitably. It is because the operators seek excessive margins to show eye watering profits in their annual reports to keep the City financiers happy and hence the share price high.

Roger Cox

31/01/13 – 06:01

Some of the half cab saloons of Yorkshire Woollen notably the large batch of Brush bodied Leyland PS1s had a pull down plate proclaiming Duplicate Car.

Philip Carlton

31/01/13 – 06:02

Well said, Roger! In addition to the demands of the shareholders, there’s the small matter of clowns like the OFT who object to a sale of depot from firm A to firm B because A isn’t making enough there to satisfy said shareholders. They say it’s uncompetitive, and A shuts depot anyway, thus saving firm B the agreed several £££££££. Can someone give me the date and time of the revolution?

Pete Davies

31/01/13 – 06:03

When Trent bought Barton’s "buses business" why didn’t they purchase Barton’s shareholding in South Notts? And then later, why did Trent allow South Notts to fall into the hands of NCT? Their actions with regard to the recent disposal by the Felix company of its stage-carriage service were completely different – and from what I’ve read above the South Notts operation must have been quite a money-spinner. Why did Trent (feel able to?) let this slip their grasp?

Philip Rushworth

01/02/13 – 06:14

By the time NCT acquired the assets, services and good will of the South Notts Bus Company but not the Company itself in March 1991, South Notts had been subject to severe and sustained competition, since May 1990, on its East Leake – Nottingham service and its Clifton Estate services from Kinch-Line. This competition caused both Arthur Dabell, the South Notts MD, and the Board of Barton Transport plc (Barton Transport plc having retained its shareholding in South Notts when it sold its own bus business to Wellglade Ltd in 1989) to say that action was needed to resolve the financial losses that South Notts was now suffering. The action was to sell out to NCT, with whom South Notts had maintained good relations since October 1986.
I’ve often wondered why support for South Notts on its service between East Leake and Nottingham gave way when Kinch-Line started to compete. As a former resident of Clifton, but way before Kinch-Line arrived, I can say that there was a tendency to catch the first bus that came along whether it was NCT, West Bridgford or South Notts so there was not the same brand ‘loyalty’ there. Maybe the money South Notts made on its Clifton services, always charged at NCT fares, which were not excessive, had for many years given it a financial cushion allowing support of its cheap fare policy on the main line service. Since the 1985 re-organisation of the Clifton services (allowing NCT to introduce 100% driver only operation on its Clifton services) South Notts had 100% operation of the 67 and 68 via Trent Bridge, and its was these two services that were subject to Kinch-Line competition. There was talk of privately expressed surprise by South Notts ‘management’ back in 1968, when West Bridgford sold out to NCT, that West Bridgford couldn’t make money on ‘Cliftons’.
We shall probably now never know why South Notts didn’t trade on its ‘good name’ and long tradition of serving the East Leake – Nottingham corridor to counter Kinch-Line back in 1990. Did Barton Transport plc want their money out while there was something left to sell?

Michael Elliott

01/02/13 – 06:14

Philip, An interesting question which I’m unable to answer but a perfect illustration of the old saying ‘What goes around comes around’ occurred this week. Trent abandoned their old Nottingham to Loughborough service many years ago but when Premiere Buses of Nottingham collapsed last Friday, Kinchbus, which belongs to Wellglade, who own Trent, stepped in and have now taken over operation of the No.9 service which was partly the old Trent service and partly the old BMMO X99. The difference is that the old Trent 65/66 used to deviate via Wymeswold and was basically every two hours between Nottingham and Loughborough, todays service which retains No.9 with Kinchbus is half-hourly and by operating direct between Rempstone and Loughborough, about twenty minutes has been lopped off the running time. So you could say the service has come back to Trent’s parent group and in response to Neville’s comment, I don’t think Wellglade will be charging the fares that Premiere charged for very long!

Chris Barker

20/05/13 – 16:52

Kinch (under its Wellglade ownership) was already running a Loughborough to Nottingham service via the A60 before Premiere travel came along. So although they took over the Premiere no. 9 service, they were already there.
The BMMO X99 service did not run through Loughborough but followed the route of the old A453 –
Birmingham/Sutton/Tamworth/Ashby/Nottingham.
This route number was later revived by Arriva on a service from Shepshed to Nottingham via Loughborough but was discontinued some years ago

Brian Binns

21/05/13 – 12:06

Brian The Kinch service 9 which competed with Premiere was withdrawn in March 2012; Premiere then had the route to themselves, until they ceased trading on 25 January 2013. Kinch reappeared on the route the following day.

Bob Gell

10/09/14 – 07:00

Digressing along the late, lamented X99 route for a moment, the diversion via Loughborough predated Arriva.
A basic summary is that when Midland Red was split in 1981, the X99 continued to be operated by Tamworth and Coalville garages, which were allocated to MR (North) and MR (East) respectively and thus the X99 became a joint operation.
Some time between around deregulation, possibly during the 1987 "Night of the Long Knives" MR (North) pulled off the X99, leaving what was by then Midland Fox in sole charge. Fox retrenched in turn, pulling the X99 out of Birmingham and reduced the service to Ashby to Nottingham, which it extended at one end to Coalville and diverted via Loughborough, pulling off the traditional route via Castle Donington.
I lost track of it by the 1990s, losing interest in buses for a decade or two, but I seem to recall the route ended up running as the 99 and didn’t last too long once Fox was Arriva-d and the money-men took over, turning the whole Arriva bus operation nationwide into First-with-a-prettier-livery.

Ross

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

31/01/17 – 07:22

Thanks for the memories.
My Mother was a friend of Chris Dabell’s wife and they often travelled together on the South Notts bus to Loughborough or Nottingham. Mrs Dabel would remark that "Chris would sooner see a bus filled with happy passengers enjoying the trip than putting up fares and having a lesser number of passengers.
I often booked South Notts for the Sunday School outings and sometimes got alternative quotes. The South Notts were always the best price, and obligingly picked up people in the village and dropped them of at different points on the return to East Leake.
South Notts also supplied busses to Skills on their Scarborough and Bridlington Saturday runs also a Yorkshire firm(?) Boddy’s would help on that run.
South Notts were always the last busses to stop running in bad weather (fog, smog, snow amd floods.) Other companies withdrew services early in the day which meant that the school passengers were allowed to leave school early. South Notts just kept running …… no early school leaving for us.
Duplicate busses, always on Saturdays. South Notts also "delivered" newspapers to villages on the Nottm to Lougborough route!. (and parcels collected at the various bus stops).
South Notts did have a rival during and after the war. A bus came from Nottingham to East Leake every morning and evening. This bus brought staff to the "Control Centre" at East Leake Station. This bus (can’t remember the operator) was some times a double decker and made the journey via Ruddington and Wilford Hill. A real treat for us as children to travel on a "foreign route".
I recall the first Double decker. Which had been repaired on the top half using a panel from a Wigan Corporation bus. The panel had been painted South Notts blue, but the Wigan Corporation logo was visible through the paint.
Happy memories

DaveM

 
Copyright Ken Jones

Blue Bus Services
1939
Daimler COG5-40
Willowbrook C35F

GNU 750 is a Daimler COG5-40 (8485) with Willowbrook (3208) C35F body, and dates from 1939. It is preserved in the livery of Blue Bus Services (Tailby & George) who were based at Willington in Derbyshire. You’ll find more history on this company at Stephen Howarths website.

The above site includes this paragraph
Since the untimely deaths of their spouses in 1955 & 1958 respectively, the company had been run by Mr. Tailby & Mrs. George. Percy Tailby died in 1956 leaving Katherine George as sole proprietor until her death in 1965. Tailby & George Ltd. then passed to Douglas & Bunty Marshall, the latter being the daughter of the Tailbys. By the 1970’s public transport was in a state of serious decline. The railways had been decimated by Beeching and the majority of the bus industry was either nationalised (i.e. Trent) or in the hands of the local council, as in Derby and Burton. Small independent companies like Tailby & George faced fierce competition from the bigger companies. On 1st December 1973, the then proprietors of the company,
Mr. & Mrs. Marshall made the decision to retire. After much speculation the operation of the Blue Bus Service passed from Tailby & George Ltd to the Derby Corporation.

This vehicle was part of The Quantock Motors collection but Stephen Morris is down sizing and selling many of his vehicles. This one was for sale in June 2011 for £25,000. It has been sold to Lithuania. You can see pictures of it in Lithuania here //fotobus.msk.ru/ It appears that the coach will operate from central Kaunas to Urmas, which is a massive out of town shopping complex.
The above picture was taking in April 2010 when the vehicle was in service on the Quantock Motors gala weekend. It is seen at Bishop’s Lydeard entering the Quantock Motors site. Note the Blue Bus Services badge on the radiator.

Photograph Ken Jones, Copy Ken Jones & Stephen Howarth

25/01/13 – 06:59

What a gem. For English on the link, press the little union flag top right.

Joe

25/01/13 – 09:48

What a beautiful coach. Strange, though, that it only had the 5-cylinder Gardner engine. I wish it well in Lithuania, but admit to some qualms about such loving care being lavished on it. Fingers crossed!

Chris Hebbron

25/01/13 – 12:36

The CVD6 was the most common post-war coach, and then the CVG6. How common was the COG6 before the war, though? Until the Regent III/PD2 era, the 7 litre 5LW was thought adequate for single deckers. Only Tilling parsimony allowed the 5LW to flourish after the war.

David Oldfield

25/01/13 – 14:58

It seems a shame that this gem as Joe calls it is no longer in the country where I presume it spent the last sixty odd years, another loss to the UK.
Very nice shot by the way, never seen that done with a bus before.

Trevor Knowles

25/01/13 – 17:27

A couple of other shots of this coach may be found in the 1968 Halifax Parade gallery, when the livery was slightly different. The 8.6 litre Daimler CD6 engine proved to be less than dependable for double deck work, and became instead the standard option for CV saloons up to the early 1950s. Post WW2, the 5LW engine was certainly not restricted to Bristol buses. Daimler offered a CVG5 variant which was taken by several operators. The 5LW was specified for many Guy Arab III machines, single and double deck, and it appeared in Dennis and Tilling Stevens buses also. In addition, this engine was offered in several makes of goods chassis, and for marine and industrial purposes. The 5LW did not depend upon Bristol for its post war survival. In its final form as the 5LW/20 it developed 100bhp at 1700 rpm, though, by that time, it was no longer offered in bus chassis.

Roger Cox

26/01/13 – 06:44

Bullocks of Featherstone (B&S Motor Services) – taken over by West Riding in 1950 – had five of this identical model Daimler (COG5/40), but managed to squeeze 39 seats into their Willowbrook bodies. The first, BWW 475 (202) was in fact a 1936/37 Commercial Show model. They were fine vehicles spoilt by the somewhat excessive engine vibration which necessitated body rebuilds after the war.

David Allen

26/01/13 – 06:45

Bodywork was generally lighter before the war than after, and the COG5 was Daimler’s most popular model for both single and double deck vehicles. Manchester’s COG5 double deckers were very successful, and so unsurprisingly their first postwar Daimlers were CVG5s. But with an unladen weight of around 8 tons these were less satisfactory, so CVG6s were then purchased until lighter bodywork became available in the mid-fifties (together with some lightweight chassis features arising from the development of the CLG5). CVG5s were then tried again, but were beaten by changed traffic conditions, so MCTD reverted to six-cylinder engines for the final batches.

Peter Williamson

Michael Elliott

GNU 750 as an example of the COG5-40 had a more compact engine compartment and cab that the standard COG5. The 40 in the designation denoted the ability to accommodate 40 passengers. GNU also had a five speed gearbox. I drove this bus on several occasions during the early 1970s when it was in the ownership of John Horrocks.

Michael Elliott

26/01/13 – 13:57

This is a very interesting view, Ken – thanks for posting. It reminds me of the "selective" tinting of school photographs in my primary school days. They were taken in black and white but could be enhanced on payment of a supplement.
I’ve heard of – but don’t use – Photoshop. Is that program how you achieved this?

Pete Davies

26/01/13 – 15:47

There are several programs that will do this sort of task, Pete. Photoshop is the top of the range product for professional artshops and advertising agencies, and is extremely expensive – around £600. Cheaper alternatives are available, including Photoshop Elements and a free program called GIMP. I have an old Photoshop version and also the latest Serif Photoplus X6, which will do most of the things that most of us will need.

Roger Cox

27/01/13 – 08:06

Thanks for that, Roger. The program I use came with the slide scanner I bought a few years ago when converting my slides to digital. It’s called Photoimpression 6. I still use it for editing the digital photos: no point in buying one when I have one in hand!

Pete Davies

27/01/13 – 08:07

Or you could download the free program Photofiltre or use online photo editor Sumopaint, Pete.

Chris Hebbron

04/02/13 – 11:52

I was present on the 1st of May for this running day at Bishops Lydeard and was delighted to see GNU 750 being started up and brought into the ‘bus station’. The run went to Hestercombe House and Gardens but most of the gentlemen aboard (some eight or so of us) preferred to stand around the coach rather than visit the house and gardens.

There was some playing around with the destination indicator and, as my photograph shows, some details of the coach were displayed. Would it have been usual practice – by Daimler, if no-one else – to include such information at the beginning or end of their destination rolls? Much as I enjoyed the run, a ride on the ex-Royal Blue Bristol L coach HOD 30 a little later proved to be a more luxurious affair.

Berwyn Prys Jones

05/02/13 – 07:05

The Daimler message on the destination blind will almost certainly have been added during preservation. In any case, the destination blind would not have been provided by Daimler, who only built the chassis.
Mention of "GNU 750 being started up" takes me back to Battersea Park May 1969, prior to the start of the HCVC London to Brighton run. GNU’s chief supporters were up bright and early, sprucing and polishing. I was tasked with taking the ‘tender vehicle’, ex Samuel Ledgard 2-stroke Foden ONW 2, across the bridge to pick up the rest of the party from their hotel. The only problem was that ONW’s exhaust pipe was pointing straight at the now gleaming GNU, and a cold start in that position would have resulted in a large deposit of soot! So GNU had to be started up and moved out of the way first. Funny how things stick in the mind.

Peter Williamson

05/02/13 – 17:42

A couple of shots of Foden ONW 2 may be seen on the ‘Halifax Parade 1968’ gallery. Sadly, this interesting vehicle has since fallen victim to the breaker’s torch.

Roger Cox

07/02/13 – 17:03

Thanks, Peter, I half-suspected as much, but hadn’t seen anything like it on the other preserved buses in the Stephen Morris collection. One wonders why it was put there and only there.

 
You mentioned starting up. I happened to be inside the depot when another of the Stephen Morris collection was being fired up (almost literally). Just out of sight, a driver had started the engine of the lovely ex-East Kent Leyland Tiger. The whole of the southern half of the shed was gradually enveloped in a fog of white dust (photo attached). As there was no wind, the dust hung round the place creating a rather eerie atmosphere with only the noise of the Tiger’s engine to remind me that I hadn’t been transported to an unhealthy underworld somewhere …

Berwyn Prys Jones

08/02/13 – 06:45

This picture reminds me of Percy Main depot on winter mornings. The garage staff had a cold start technique that required two men and a diesel soaked rag tightly wrapped around a stout piece of wood. The rag would be set alight, one of the staff would then turn over the engine while the other would hold the lighted rag at the end of the canister like air filter. Gardener engines are notoriously smoky when cold, and when you have several of them ticking over at once, the exhaust fumes would be billowing out of the open garage doors giving many a passer by the impression that the place was on fire.

Ronnie Hoye

08/02/13 – 09:07

I recall, in the early ’60’s, going on a fortnight’s course in Brum and staying in digs next to Harborne Depot. Come 4.45am, every morning, there would be the cacophony of bus engines being started, ticking over, then driving out. It’s a wonder I ever succeeded at the course with lack of sleep! I lived near a trolleybus depot for some years – what bliss!

Chris Hebbron

08/02/13 – 16:23

At the risk of going severely ‘off piste’, this photo of an ex-Crosville L parked just to the right of the vehicles in my previous photo may evoke the atmosphere at the depot even more vividly.

Berwyn Prys Jones

10/02/13 – 07:45

Berwyn, GNU 750 has been in preservation for a long time under several owners. Here it is in 1979 with the same blind. www.flickr.com/photos

Peter Williamson

08/12/17 – 07:08

In 2011 bought by private person and exported to Kaunas city, Lithuania: //busphoto.ru/photo/209576/

Andrejs

09/12/17 – 07:33

A nice photograph Andrejs but I note that it’s dated 2014. I wonder if the vehicle looks the same now!

Chris Barker

Worthing Tramocar
1930
Shelvoke & Drewry "Freighter"
Harrington B20R

Here is a picture (a small Box Brownie holiday snap dated 1935 from my collection), showing two Worthing Tramocars’ on the Seafront of that West Sussex town.
The rear of the two vehicles is a Shelvoke & Drewry "Freighter" chassis (No. 03:1059), with a Harrington B20R body. It was put into service in April 1930, given Fleet No.7, and had Registration Number PO 1748. It was issued Worthing Licence Plate 213.
The front one of the two is not identifiable but is one of a later delivery, again with Harrington body, this time of B26R configuration. PO 1748 was numbered B82 in the Southdown Motor Services fleet, when the company was sold to that concern for £15,750 on 1st April 1938. Southdown withdrew it in April 1941 and it passed to H. Lane & Co (dealer) of Chelsea, London SW3, it finally ending its life with Clymping Caravans, near Littlehampton Sussex, date unknown.
The Worthing Tramocar company was formed in 1924 by Walter Rowland Gates (41), a Londoner who returned to England from New Zealand, where he had operated a mineral water business. Residing at 141 Brighton Road he observed that elderly passengers were finding it difficult to board the high step platforms of the local Southdown buses, and, that no buses ran along the Sea Front. His answer was to apply for licences to run a service using vehicles designed with ‘low floors’ (nothing new in this world), and Mr Gates registered the name "Tramocar".
The new design of vehicle to operate the service was a dustcart chassis manufactured by Shelvoke & Drewry Limited of Letchworth, Hertfordshire, and know as the Freighter. A particular feature of the S&D Freighter was that its control was by a handle similar to a Tramcar control handle, hence the name ‘Tramocar’. This was situated to the left of the driver, and was used, to change speed, reverse, transmission, brake, and throttle. The handle to the right of the driver was the geared steering tiller. There was also an emergency foot brake operating on the front wheels only. The PSV Construction and Use Regulations of 1933, made this form of control illegal, and a steering wheel replaced the tiller. The first two vehicles (Register BP 9822 and PX 262 – Worthing Licence Plates 109 and 138) had specially designed bodies constructed by the Hickman Body Building Company, 8 Grove Road, Balham, London, SW12. These bodies had seating for 18 passengers in 6 rows of transverse seats. The service started running on Whit Monday 9th June 1924, and operated between 10am and 8pm, with a Single fare of 2d. There is a postcard image of a Worthing Tramocar – PX 1592, on flickr, it can be seen at www.flickr.com/ 
For readers of this website who wish to learn more of this remarkable concern I would recommend ‘An Anthology of The Worthing Tramocar’, published by The Southdown Enthusiasts’ Club in July 2002.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Stephen Howarth

22/01/13 – 14:14

Oh what a fantastic period shot – and remarkably clear at that. History coming alive.

David Oldfield

22/01/13 – 15:14

Thanks for posting this remarkable view. I have looked at the flickr reference mentioned in the posting and adjacent in the "index" is a view of Amberley Museum’s example.

I attach a further view of this device, during a rally in September 2009. It shows BP 9822 but the PSVC listing shows it to have started life as CV 784. The body it now carries was built in the Museum’s own workshops. I understand that the chassis was built for a dustcart.

Pete Davies

22/01/13 – 15:30

A wonderful period photo, full of action and people. How the sepia suits it and gives it the glow of a sunny day, which it appears to be, anyway. With all the flags and bunting out, what was being celebrated, I wonder.
I love the jaunty angle of the motorbike’s exhaust! It was taken some time after August 1932, when the Ford Model Y (third car along) went into production.
One thing I notice about the subject of the photo is that it has pneumatic tyres. Other photos I’ve seen always showed solid ones.
I wonder if this part of Worthing seafront is still identifiable today?

Chris Hebbron

With the aid of Google Maps, I’ve been able to pin this photo down to Marine Parade, with the side turning (where the lone lower height building by the first bus is) being West Street. The buildings and view are the same, even to there still being a shrubbery on the right! The pier’s only a few hundred yards further along.

Chris Hebbron

22/01/13 – 17:08

As it’s 1935, the flags are probably for King George V’s silver jubilee.
And in answer to the question, the buildings on Marine Parade/West Street have not changed much, (it would appear that the link to Google street view below only works for so long, if you manage to get a view please let me have a link) please be patient it takes quite a while to load the street view page – //goo.gl/maps/EIEPr

Jon

22/01/13 – 17:09

What a gem! Those really were "the days", especially for bus enthusiasts, as there was so much variety in both chassis and body supply, which created vast permutations of possibility. Our home resorts were thriving, and this photo captures the atmosphere of the time to perfection.
Blackpool and Bournemouth Corporations also operated the S&D "Freighter", as did White Rose, at Rhyll, later Crosville, so it was a bit of a "seaside special", and they were very popular in their more common role as Dustbin carts! Tiny little wheels, solid tyred, I think, at least with the earlier models, and a tramway type "Tiller" control! Delightful is the word!

John Whitaker

23/01/13 – 07:18

My fathers uncle drove one of these S&D "Freighter" as a dustcart for Dewsbury Corporation.I remember my father telling me that they were steered by rods.I have a vague memory of riding on a Lincolnshire Road Car one at Skegness .I think that they had a Bedford front grill.I would have only been about 5 years old but I remember them being replaced by Bedford OBs with the nearside cut away.I think that one is in preservation.

Philip Carlton

23/01/13 – 07:19

Although off-piste, it’s worth recording that S&D were almost wholly devoted to mundane war work for the duration of WWII. However, despite having no previous experience, they successfully developed and built 37ft miniature submarines, called the Wellfreighter. It was built for use by the Special Operations Executive, for the clandestine insertion and re-supply of agents behind enemy lines and suchlike! Amazing!

Chris Hebbron

23/01/13 – 09:15

Amazing what people and companies turned there hand to during the war – with a good deal of success, and probably not a single degree in sight!!!

David Oldfield

23/01/13 – 10:03

………..but a great deal of accumulated knowledge and common-sense, David!

Chris Hebbron

23/01/13 – 10:04

That looks like some close parking by the c1928/30 Ford Model A Tourer squashed between the 1932 Austin 7 saloon and that Ford 8. As has been said, Worthing has not changed a great deal over the ensuing years.
The name of Shelvoke and Drewry always reminds me of an old friend who worked as a motor mechanic for our local Council for a while and that included the hated job of working on S&D dustcarts. Any job was always such a nightmare of dirt and old rubbish so they were always referred to as working on "S— and Dust"! I’m sorry it’s so blunt but it takes me back to a smile from around thirty years ago!

Richard Leaman

23/01/13 – 11:21

Am I dreaming, or did we have Seddon chassis with S & D equipment on Sheffield dust-carts at one time in the ’60s?

David Oldfield

23/01/13 – 13:19

Since we seem to be wandering off into the realms of dustcarts, now may be an appropriate time to comment on one we had in Lancaster in the late 1950’s. From what I can remember of it, it must have had an underfloor engine, because the dustbins were emptied into an area next to the driver (poor fellow!) and unloading was at the back end. It didn’t seem to last very long, and I can only assume that loading was too slow: one bin at a time rather than two at a time when loading at the back. Was it on a bus chassis, I wonder? There is certainly no mention in the Lancaster City Transport fleetlists of any single decker being rebodied after service as a dustcart, and I don’t recall any lorries of the period having underfloor engines!

Pete Davies

24/01/13 – 11:15

Crosville also ran some of these engaging vehicles in Rhyl.
After the war S&D continued to produce dust carts and later fire engines. In the eighties an American firm Dempster Briothers took over the company, they were a major player in the US dustcart market and S&D built some front loading wagons using their Dumpster system they also built rear loading ones called Routechief. In the eighties Dempster pulled out and the remains of the company were bought by arch rivals Dennis.
Many second hand S&D dust carts ended up in Malta (sounds familiar!) Some of the fire appliances survive at various airports in the UK
One fire engine found fame in the TV series London’s Burning

Chris Hough

24/01/13 – 14:56

As a point of interest, the original Tramocar garage is still extant in Thorn Road (just along the seafront from this shot). It is now used as a Tyre fitters. The original S & D Freighters were later replaced, after the Southdown takeover, by Dennis Falcons with special low height Harrington bodies. I believe one of these (FUF 181?) still exists and is awaiting restoration.

Roy Nicholson

25/01/13 – 06:53

I seem to remember that S&D once built an airport bus that was used airside at Heathrow.Can anybody remember this?

Philip Carlton

25/01/13 – 12:29

Why low-height bodies, Roy?

Chris Hebbron

25/01/13 – 17:16

There’s a photo of the airport bus here: www.flickr.com/photos/

Michael Wadman

26/01/13 – 06:18

Hi Chris………..Should have said low floor rather than low height! This was to enable better access for Worthing’s elderly population. I have also made a faux pas with the garage in Thorn Road, as it now appears to have been converted into a private residence.

Roy Nicholson

26/01/13 – 06:19

The vehicles Philip Carlton remembers at Skegness were Vulcan VSDs dating from the 1920s. There were four of them – NR 6648, NR 7266, FU 5946 and FU 7549, which passed from Skegness Motor Services to Lincolnshire Roadcar in 1934. LRCC fitted the four buses concerned with Bedford petrol engines and radiators after the War and replaced them with Bedford OBs with converted Duple ‘Vista’ bodies during the late 1950s. There were four OBs concerned – HUO 692/LTA 752 ex Western National and ONO 88/89 ex Eastern National.

Michael Elliott

27/01/13 – 07:40

re Lincolnshire OB’s – LTA 752 is the survivor, now with Lodge’s Coaches in Essex – see www.lodgecoaches.co.uk/ it sold to them for a fairly high price at auction a few years ago, it had been in private preservation in Lincolnshire until about 10 years ago, then moved to the south coast (again in preservation.)
Lodges seem to have fitted a hinged door – this may have been a requirement to get PSV licensed again. In Lincolnshire service they ran without a door (and therefore presumably crew operated)

Jon

22/04/17 – 06:59

On 23.01.13 at 13.19 Peter Davis writes about a strange dustcart that he remembers from Lancaster in the 1950’s. I wonder whether it was a Dennis as in this picture?

On 23.01.13 at 7.19 Chris Hebron termed S&D’s war work ‘mundane’. Not a very flattering term for war work that included producing 56,000 sprockets and wheels for tanks, tank transporter trailers, 45,000 exhaust pipe manifolds for landing craft etc.,as listed on my website. He then credits S&D with developing the Welfreighter miniature submersible! This was designed at S.O.E. Station IX at Welwyn Garden City under Colonel Dolphin. It’s true that S&D built the craft towards the end of the war so that they were never used in active service. This reflects the quality of the engineering expertise S&D had at their Letchworth Garden City works. The somewhat eccentric design of the SD Freighter was in fact the result of some very creative thinking between Harry Shelvoke and James Drewry.

On 23.01.13 David Oldfield asked:- “Am I dreaming, or did we have Seddon chassis with S & D equipment on Sheffield dust-carts at one time in the ’60s?” As Secretary of the Shelvoke & Drewry Enthusiasts’ Club (www.shelvoke-drewry.co.uk ) I think it’s highly unlikely. A possible explanation is the confusion caused by S&D utilising modified Motor Panels cabs for their ‘N’; series of vehicles at a time when Seddon also used Motor Panels cabs. Or more likely as Seddons were more often seen as SAM’s (Seddon Allen Municipals ) with Jack Allen Colectomatic bodies based on the American Heil design.these are the dustcarts David remembers.

On 25.01.13 at 6.53 Philip Carlton starts a discussion about SD’s Airport bus. Only one was ever built. The chassis was shown at the 1980 Motor Show at Birmingham and the British Airport Authority ordered one with bodywork by Reeve Burgess. It was placed in service at Gatwick Airport on car park passenger duties but by 1983 had been relocated to Heathrow for internal staff transport. Details from David Kaye writing in Buses Extra No. 49 October 1987. This issue also carries a lot more detail about SD’s as buses.

Brian Carpenter

24/04/17 – 07:12

Thank you, Brian, for posting the photo of the Dennis dustcart. THe outline is much as I remember the one in Lancaster, but whether it was a Dennis is another matter!

Pete Davies

25/04/17 – 14:58

I’m pretty sure it must have been a Dennis if it looks much like the one Peter Davis [writing 24.04.17 at 7.12] remembers in Lancaster. It wasn’t a very clever design as the driver was situated right next to where the refuse was loaded into the vehicle. A full day’s work with the smells and the dust wouldn’t exactly make it an attractive job.

Here’s a photo of it as a demonstrator. The loaders travelled in a strange compartment at the rear of the vehicle.

Brian Carpenter