Brighton Corporation
1939
AEC Regent I
Weymann H56R

FUF 63 is an AEC Regent I of the O661 variety, built in 1939. She is at Dunsfold on one of the occasions the Wisley event wasn’t at Wisley, on 10 April 2011. The second view is a close-up of the fleetname and Municipal Crest. I have memories of reading – many years go and probably in Buses magazine when it was still called Buses Illustrated – that the arrangement shown results from an agreement between these two local operators, but not Southdown, whereby the buses and trolleybuses run by the Corporation and by Brighton Hove and District had the same livery and fleetname. The distinguishing feature for most people was that the Corporation vehicles carried the Crest as well. I suppose they had different ‘legal lettering’. Histories of the Borough of Hove I have seen suggest there was some jealousy there, because Brighton was elevated to the status of a County Borough, while Hove – seen as more genteel – was not, and had to keep East Sussex registrations while Brighton was allocated its own. "So you live in Brighton?" and the response "No, I live in Hove, actually." seems to stem from this and some sources attribute it to Lord Olivier who did live in Brighton. A former colleague went to work for one of the Sussex Councils, and moved to Royal Crescent, Brighton. Lord Olivier lived next door on one side, and Dora Bryan lived on the other side.
The Titan 23 ACD next to 63 is a 1963 PD2/37 with a Weymann H37/27F body and was fleetnumber 23.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

05/11/15 – 06:41

What is most striking is how route information has been reduced over the years, especially important in a town with so many visitors. Bus operators should remember the old saying, ‘If you can’t tell, you can’t sell!’

David Wragg

05/11/15 – 16:49

Yes, David, I suppose there is ‘some’ improvement recently with the scrolling dot matrix display, but it’s still nothing like the London style or that shown on 63.

Pete Davies

06/11/15 – 07:05

But the London style is now just a single line display showing the destination.

Geoff Kerr

09/11/15 – 06:45

Of significance is that 23 ACD was the first double-decker operated as an OMO bus.

Dale Tringham

09/11/15 – 08:53

Ah, Dale! I bought some slides from your collection some years ago. Thank you for that piece of information. Was 23 "the first" in UK bus operations generally, or Brighton’s first?

Pete Davies

12/11/15 – 12:00

Brighton Corporation obtained a statutory dispensation enabling them to work this Titan driver -only in advance of general legalisation of double deck driver operation.
Great Yarmouth waited until the law changed to operate their PDR1/2s driver only, and were the second.

Stephen Allcroft

J Fishwick & Sons
1957
Leyland-MCW Olympian LW1
Weymann B44F

This is sad to say the last week of operation for J Fishwick & Sons of Leyland, Lancashire so I thought it would only fitting for one of their vehicles to be posted this Sunday the 1st November 2015. So here we have 521 CTF a Leyland Olympian LW1 from 1957. She has a Weymann B44F body. Am I right in thinking this was to the HR Olympic what the Tiger Cub was to the Royal Tiger? She’s seen in the museum in Leyland on 19 August 2012 and the second view is a close-up of the maker’s interesting badge.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

03/11/15 – 06:43

Everyone is rightly mourning the seemingly sudden end of Fishwicks. I never lived near it’s main operational area, but may have seen one or two when I lived in the Manchester area as a student in the late 1960’s. At the end of September this year, the wife and I took a short break from the south coast to Blackpool, using a Nat Express service, which went via Preston. So I did see several Fishwick’s buses then. I never though that within a month, that fine livery, and the services provided, would be no more.

Michael Hampton

03/11/15 – 15:04

It’s the age of some of these companies which is so sad, they’re not recent operators to the scene. At least, there is a book about them; David Prescott’s "John Fishwick & Sons 1907-2007: A Century of Transport".

Chris Hebbron

03/11/15 – 15:05

Yes, the end seems to have come very quickly. Other former operators have seen the end on the horizon and have managed to terminate contracts, and tell the public and the Traffic Commissioners in good time. I suppose we’ll find out eventually what went wrong.

Pete Davies

03/11/15 – 16:19

I’m totally baffled Pete by the badge on this vehicle, in particular the name "Olympian." I’ve had a brief scan of the splendid book "The Leyland Bus" and find no reference to such a model. There is plenty of description about the substantial body subframe of the Olympic, but no mention of a "proper chassis" vehicle.
The Tiger Cub and the Royal Tiger both had separate chassis, but differing in substantiality and specification, so please come anyone tell anything they know about the mysterious 1950s "Olympian."

Chris Youhill

03/11/15 – 17:21

Like Chris I too was confused linking this to the Double decker with the same designation. This link should explain origin of this hansom Tiger Cub based variant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyland-MCW_Olympian

Nigel Edwards

04/11/15 – 06:47

I’m still somewhat bemused by the Wiki link stating that it was an INTEGRAL single-deck bus built by Weymann’s for the MCW group, using Leyland Tiger Cub CHASSIS. The words in capitals show the contradiction. I wonder if they were long-lived vehicles? I have to say that the badge is very impressive.

Chris Hebbron

04/11/15 – 06:48

Thank you indeed Nigel for helping me out there, and I’m blushing at being unaware of such a model, or hopefully I did know all those years ago when it was "in the news." Mind you, the first line of the excellent Wikipaedia information throws another red herring into the mix, although correct data occurring thereafter in the piece – it says that the Olympian was an INTEGRAL model incorporating a Tiger Cub CHASSIS !! Obviously they meant Tiger Cub chassis COMPONENTS as correctly detailed from then in the item. Both models were fascinating players in the 1950s belief that "lighter will be economically better" – a theory which proved to be far from totally correct in subsequent decades – a fascinating process to study in depth.

Chris Youhill

04/11/15 – 16:05

According to Glyn Kraemer-Johnson’s authoritative book Britain’s Olympic Hope, the Olympian was unveiled at the 1954 Commercial Motor Show, two years after the last Olympic HR44 had been built. The new model was a lightweight version of the Olympic, using the 0.350 5.76-litre engine as fitted to the Tiger Cub.
Two examples of the Olympian were on show at Earls Court – demonstrator TPH 996 that was later sold to Jones of Aberbeeg, and JUH 469 of Western Welsh. Indeed, Western Welsh was the largest customer for the Olympian, taking 40 in 1956 with the same body as Fishwick’s example above. Fishwick bought six of them, 521-526 CTF. One other was exported to Ceylon and a further four went to Trinidad.
The immediate recognition difference of the Olympian was the lack of the deep aluminium rubbing strip around the entire body at floor level, which was a familiar feature of the Olympic (and many Tiger Cubs).

Peter Murnaghan

04/11/15 – 16:07

Thank you all for your comments, folks. It doesn’t help in resolving the confusion by asking ‘that well-known search engine’ for information on the Leyland Olympian, because that throws out only details of the double decker built after 1980 . . . One has to ask for the Leyland-MCW Olympian! And, yes, integral and chassis are opposite ends of the conventional spectrum. One problem with that encyclopaedia is that it is open to anyone to edit, unlike the traditional book version, which had a team of editors. I believe it’s called ‘progress’.

Pete Davies

05/11/15 – 06:38

Ah, Wikipedia. The concept is admirable, but accuracy often lags well behind. For the past two years I have been ferreting out as much information from as many sources as possible for an article on Tilling-Stevens. The Wikipedia entry on this manufacturer contains several errors that may be found, repeated word for word, elsewhere on the internet, though, like the conundrum of the chicken and the egg, it is impossible to know who copied from whom. Wikipedia should always be taken with substantial helpings of salt.

Roger Cox

05/11/15 – 06:37

Pete- there was no traditional book version of Wikipedia: you may be thinking of Encyclopedia Britannica which is in theory out of date the day after it is printed, and needed the easiest of easy terms to buy. There is a 2010 Edition, new, on Amazon I see for £1500. Wikipedia adds greatly to widening knowledge – I find it useful (especially whilst watching TV quizzes, documentaries etc) and no more slanted than anything else. If you put Leyland Olympian single deck into Google you get this bus- what do you think?

Joe

05/11/15 – 16:57

Joe, I must admit I’ve not tried the particular enquiry you mention. Must try it!

Pete Davies

When I wrote the Leyland-MCW Olympian article I said, Leyland Tiger Cub _units_. If it has been edited to _chassis_ I shall attempt to correct it.
Mr Kraemer-Johnson’s book is good but by no mean’s free from errors, one of which is he says HR with the Olympic stands for Home Range, which would be absurd when only one model was initially offered, and would mean presumably that EL stood for Export Lange?
The original error comes from David Kaye’s Blandford Pocket guide of 1968. So errors propagate as often in old media as in new. The difference is I can’t correct the book, nor can Mr Kraemer-Johnson unless it has sold enough for a second edition, which would be highly unusual for a bus book.

Stephen Allcroft

05/11/15 – 16:59

I’m no expert on bus construction, but "integral-ness" seems to be a matter of degree. It isn’t just a matter of the running units being attached to a strengthened body structure: there is often something resembling a chassis frame, and it’s often referred to as exactly that. I remember visiting Fishwicks once when they were working on the Olympian. They said "You can tell it isn’t a Tiger Cub, because the floor sits straight on top of the chassis." Another example was Sentinel’s so-called integrals, where bodyless structures could often be seen driving round the roads of Shropshire while they were in build.

Peter Williamson

06/11/15 – 07:08

At least YOU can change Wikipedia and you can see who changed it! Stephen has changed it back from ‘chassis’ (itself changed by "Mo7838" on 20/11/14) to ‘units’ today!

Geoff Pullin

06/11/15 – 07:08

Export Olympics could be either EL or ER, denoting (yes, you’ve guessed it) Left or Right hand drive. I do not think it wise to start a discussion on the definition of "integral", as one interpretation could include every double decker from the Atlantean and Fleetline onwards!

Allan White

06/11/15 – 16:42

Not all Olympic HR were built at Home and not all ER were exported from their country of manufacture. This is because some were built in South Africa by Bus Builders (South Africa) Ltd. They did export some too, to Rhodesia, and some Addlestone built RHD chassis in the HR series were exported too. BUSAF also built an SA version with a Cummins 220 engine and Twin-Disc transmission for South African railways. Leyland listed the Olympic and Olympian in a 1964 booklet, although the last Olympian had been built six years earlier. www.flickr.com/photos/

Stephen Allcroft

Eastbourne Corporation
1951
AEC Regent III 9613A
Bruce H30/26R

This AEC Regent III 9613A with Bruce H56R body was new in 1951 and our first view shows her inside the bus depot. Actually, that isn’t where we see her, as any Eastbourne enthusiast might tell you! She is, in fact, passing through the garage area at the back of Winchester Bus Station whilst taking part in the King Alfred Running Day on 1 January 2012. The second view shows her fleetname and crest.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

29/10/15 – 06:36

Thank you Pete Davies for letting us see this picture of Eastbourne Corporation, Fleet No.42 – AHC 442.
This bus brings back happy memories of my time at Derby Borough/City Transport from 1975 to 1980.
Why I hear you ask, should an Eastbourne Corporation bus remind me of Derby, as they never operated such vehicles.
Well the answer is this.
At that time, 42, was owned by the late Gerald Truran the Chief Engineer at Derby, and was garaged at either Ascot Drive Depot or Osmaston Road Depot, depending on where there was space for it.
During the Summer months of the Rally season, we used to take it to many a rally, and I used to share the Driving with Gerald. It was a superb bus to drive, the Driving position was second to none and Gerald kept it in first class condition, and it could achieve a fair turn of speed, (not just downhill), and the gearbox, once mastered, was a delight in itself. The body and paint work were superb and I recall leaving a few rally fields with silverware on board.
I left Derby in June 1980 to work at Darlington Corporation Transport, and whilst we had our own Daimler deckers still in service they were not the same as that AEC.
I never saw 42 again until a couple of years ago,when I was at the Worthing Seafront Bus Rally, and whilst I was allowed on board to take a few pictures, permission was not forth coming to climb up into the cab to sample that pleasure again (simple things please and amuse old Busmen).
It is nice to see her again if only in print, and brings back happy times, not just driving her, but of my 5+ years at Derby.

Stephen Howarth

29/10/15 – 15:45

A bit of serendipity as this picture comes on the day that I had a query from an ex-colleague as to whether there are still any instances of bus garages being used as bus stations. This arose from some pictures of Worksop where a new bus station has recently replaced the stands outside the former East Midland MS garage which doubled for many years as the town’s bus station. (I would have uploaded my shot of Tiger Cub R39 in this location except that it would more or less duplicate this existing picture on this site at //www.old-bus-photos.co.uk/?p=2817)  
I get the impression that at Winchester the stands are not inside the main building, but does anyone know of anywhere where a building is still shared by garage and passenger facilities?

Alan Murray-Rust

29/10/15 – 17:14

What memories there are in this photo as I began my 42 years on the buses with Eastbourne Corporation at Churchdale road depot in August 1961. In those days everyone started as a conductor and when the chance arose went on to the driving school, undertaken in your own time, where Leyland PD1/Bruce No 15 JK 9113 awaited your tender touch. Having passed my test at the first attempt in April 1962 I progressed to the drivers roster after some tuition on the various different types then in the fleet which of course included the Regent III’s like No 42.
At that time they were often referred to as the "Hampden Park" buses as they were used almost solely on the 7, 7a, 9 and 9a routes which were tightly timed and interworked as their lively performance was a great help with time keeping which made them very popular with all drivers and one of everyone’s favourites.
I have to agree with all Stephen Howarths favourable comments regarding these buses which were solid reliable and comfortable, No 42 is now owned by a group in the Portsmouth area one of who is a friend Clive Wilkin.

Diesel Dave

30/10/15 – 06:37

What about Marlborough St Bristol that used to be one.

Roger Burdett

30/10/15 – 06:38

I loves Eastbourne’s livery of this period. As bright as a seaside funfair and most ususual in keeping the under canopy and bonnet top the same colour as the sides – a very ‘thirties feature. All-round, a very attractive vehicle.

Chris Hebbron

30/10/15 – 06:39

Thanks for your comments, chaps. Alan, you are correct in thinking that, in Winchester, the garage is at the back of the Bus Station. Make the most of it, though, as redevelopment looms!

Pete Davies

01/11/15 – 05:59

Roger, "used to be one" is correct – now completely redeveloped as a bus station only. But, yesterday, I alighted from a trentbarton "seven" inside the "old" Belper bus station/depot – the (upper) maintenance bay is now used by a tyre company, but if buses still overnight in the (lower) bus station area . . .

Philip Rushworth

02/11/15 – 06:48

My first memory of these fine vehicles was as a child in 1953 somebody in my street in the old town area of Eastbourne hired a corporation bus to take us to a fireworks display on the seafront to celebrate the Queens Coronation and it was one of these 40 types as Diesel Dave has said these buses had a distinctive tone. As Dave has said every body on Eastbourne Corporation started as a conductor so when I started in 1968 it was the same for me when I entered the driving school in 1969 the training bus was 42s sister vehicle 47 that was the start of a very interesting career for me I followed Dave to Southdown though it was a NBC Southdown Dave and I worked the early days of National Express I’m now still driving Working for one of the major companies on a part time bases working in and out of one of our big cites I’m now just starting my 47th year as a bus driver.

Tony Grover

02/11/15 – 06:49

Last time I was there, Malton still seemed to be a combined bus station/depot

Michael Keeley

02/11/15 – 06:50

Yes, they do. I think it is still 7 ’55’ reg. Scania L94/Wrights for the "sixes" service, and 2 Solo for the "sevens" service. Recently, a new roller door has been installed, headroom stated at 14′, so no more highbridge double deckers!

Allan White