Copyright Ian Wild

Potteries Motor Traction
1960
Leyland Titan PD3/3
Willowbrook H39/34F

This was the last front engined bus delivered to PMT and was ordered by Baxters of Hanley who had sold out to PMT in December 1958. The Leyland PD/Willowbrook combination was clearly Baxters preferred design following on from the two Leyland PD2/20 supplied in 1955 and 1957. These two were of lowbridge layout (indeed as were all the double deckers taken over) and was also PMT’s preference due to the significant number of low railway bridges in the area. I wonder why then Baxters ordered this bus as a highbridge? The main batch of PD3s delivered to PMT had exposed radiators and this bus was one of only two delivered new with BMMO style concealed radiators. The other oddity was the vacuum braked specification which from discussions on this site about the stopping powers of PD3s would make this one even worse – but I can’t recall any driver complaints. It spent almost all its life operating from Biddulph Depot where I suppose the small number of drivers would be more likely to accept its idiosyncrasies. The bus is seen outside Stoke Depot in October 1969. It was withdrawn in 1971 and found its way inevitably to a Barnsley scrapyard.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

A full list of Titan codes can be seen here.

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21/11/12 – 06:51

I appreciate that ‘Bus Lists On The Web’ gives the seating as H39/34F, but 34 seems incredibly high for the lower deck capacity – the normal maximum for a 30′ front-engined forward-entrance double-decker being 31. Anyone any first-hand experience of this bus?
Another thing I find surprising is the statement that it ‘inevitably’ found its way to a Barnsley scrapyard – high-capacity front-entrance double-deckers were almost unknown on the secondhand market in 1971, and I can’t help but think that there must have been a reason for this vehicle’s early withdrawal and scrapping.

David Call

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21/11/12 – 14:47

I think you’re correct David, considering that PMT’s own PD3/4’s dated from 1957 and lasted a couple of years longer than this one. As you say, this would have made a sought after secondhand vehicle in 1971 and would perhaps have been snapped up by someone such as Berresfords of Cheddleton had it been sound. Berresfords did in fact acquire some ex-PMT PD3/4’s in 1973.

Chris Barker

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21/11/12 – 17:30

After an accident too serious to warrant repair, perhaps? Then either directly to Barnsley or after spares recovery. I’d imagine there’s something in an issue of BUSES ILLUSTRATED of the time, if anyone has a copy.

Pete Davies

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22/11/12 – 07:20

An even better source of information would be PSV Circle publication 3PD1 – PMT fleet history 1953-82

David Call

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22/11/12 – 11:55

According to the book ‘A Century of North Staffordshire Buses’ this PD3 was ordered by Baxters as a lowbridge vehicle in 1958. Baxters were acquired by PMT in December 1958 and they were in time to change the specification to highbridge. Presumably it was originally intended to be rear entrance because I don’t think Willowbrook ever produced a 30ft lowbridge front entrance body, so perhaps the vehicle that we see was the best option for PMT, if they didn’t want another back loader.
It appears to have been a normal withdrawal by PMT in December 1971 and after passing to Cowleys, was cut up for scrap. The ex-Becketts Northern Counties bodied Fleetline was withdrawn by PMT when only ten years old!

Chris Barker

Copyright Michael Crofts

Leicester City Transport
1966
Leyland Titan PD3A/1
MCW H41/33R

I became a bus driver in 1965 and was driving for PMT Stoke driving Regents, Guy, Daimler, Reliance and of course Leyland PD/3s. So as time went by I ended up working for Midland Red North. I was promoted to Driving Instructor in 1989 and to my delight was given a Leyland PD3 ex Leicester to do my training with. I would drive great distances with this vehicle for example Crewe to Oswestry to pick up trainee’s of course this was the best part of the day when I was driving. Happy days, Does anyone know if this vehicle was saved from the scrapman?

Photograph and Copy contributed by Michael Crofts

A full list of Titan codes can be seen here.

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06/11/12 – 17:11

1966 would make it an early example of a genuine MCW – as opposed to Met Cam or Weymann. Not bad looking but it would be even better in its genuine Leicester guise.

David Oldfield

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07/11/12 – 06:59

The registration looks to me like GRY50D – and checking it out has confirmed that is indeed the correct registration.
I’m a bit intrigued as to what David defines as a ‘genuine’ MCW product. MCW as a joint venture existed for decades (I presume similarly to ‘BUT’ of AEC & Leyland) – for many years the place of build being established by reference to the maker’s plate, Weymann bodied vehicles showing ‘Metropolitan-Cammell-Weymann’, and Metro-Cammell bodied ones showing ‘Metropolitan-Cammell Carriage and Wagon’. This changed sometime in the mid-1960s, when Metro-Cammell bodied buses started appearing with MCW builders plates, as the Weymanns. I can’t now remember exactly when this happened, but I do recall it as being well before there was any question mark over the future of the Weymann factory. At some point I think Weymann and the bus-building side of Metro-Cammell merged as MCW, but, here again, I can’t remember exactly when this was, but I do recall it as being before the losing of the separate identities, as you might say.
After a protracted strike the ex-Weymann works were closed and production concentrated at the former Metro-Cammell factory in Birmingham. I believe some bodies which were commenced at Addlestone (Weymanns) were completed in Birmingham.
Having lost significant capacity MCW then found itself unable to complete orders within the required timescales, the result being that some were cancelled (I presume by mutual agreement) and the intended customers were required to take their custom elsewhere. I remember one affected batch being Bradford 301-15 (which finished up with Alexander bodies) but I believe there were others. So at what point did ‘genuine’ MCW bodies appear?
In the example above, I notice that the lower deck seating capacity is given as 33 rather than the usual maximum of 32. Was there a rearward-facing seat for five behind the bulkhead?

David Call

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07/11/12 – 06:59

Michael, nice views but she isn’t mentioned in the 2012 PSV Circle listing of preserved buses. Unless there’s a gap, I suspect the answer to your question has to be ‘no’.

Pete Davies

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I have corrected the registration.

Peter

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07/11/12 – 08:48

David. MCW was a joint marketing company. Weymann and Met-Camm had entirely different owners until 1966 when Weymann went under and Met-Camm (Cammell-Laird) bought what was left. MCW plates were put under the stairs of both manufacturers products certainly from the ’50s – leading to the ongoing confusion. MCW as a manufacturer is post 1966 – despite industrial relations problems leading to many Weymann orders post 1963 going to Met-Camm (either before or even during the production run).

David Oldfield

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08/11/12 – 11:09

These MCW bodies always looked much better than the ones which tapered to the bonnet assembly which remained at 7ft 6ins wide, this gave the buses a severe look. The problem was overcome by adding around 6 inches to the front width of the bus on the offside as seen here.

Chris Hough

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08/11/12 – 15:00

Chris, wasn’t it 3 inches either side? As far as MCW and its constituents are concerned MCW was formed in 1932 to produce bus bodies from the Elmdon works of Metro-Cammell Carriage and Wagon Company and the Addlestone works of Weymann.
Both companies produced bodies to their own designs which they marketed separately and to joint designs where they saw markets which neither factory alone could supply in quantity, for instance BAT (later BET) which became a major customer.
The Weymann name and the Metro Cammell names were dropped after the 1966 closure of Addlestone, MCW becoming the new name.
Enthusiasts, (myself included), publications and the internet are sometimes guilty of calling pure Metro Cammell designs MCW as it became a short hand. I’ve done it on this site, referring to various Manchester bodies, supplied by Elmdon pre the arrival of the Orion bodies, as MCW when they (such as the post war Standard, the Phoenix and the unique 44xx batch of CRG6Ks) were pure Metro Cammell.
Interestingly few pure Weymann bodies are wrongly referred to as MCW.
For my own part, I’ve put myself on the naughty step for 15 minutes and have promised to be more careful in future!

Phil Blinkhorn

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08/11/12 – 15:01

The prolonged strike at Weymann was responsible for Halifax ordering Roe bodies for the 1965 PD2s. The chassis were driven from Weymann to Halifax and then despatched to Cross Gates. Leeds ordered 10 Weymann bodied Atlanteans for 1965 Nine duly appeared while the last one 340 CUB 340C was finished by MCW and eventually arrived in 1966. It had dual headlights and wrap around windscreens on both decks neither feature was on the original 9. It also had green window pans for the interior instead of the more usual aluminium finish. It was in many ways a one off and remained unique in the Leeds fleet Later MCW bodied Atlanteans had wrap round windscreens but single headlamps and standard interiors.

Chris Hough

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09/11/12 – 07:49

Whilst GRY 50D doesn’t seem to have survived to the present day, two of its sisters have.
Identical twin GRY 48D has been restored by the Leicester Transport Heritage Trust.
And Park Royal bodied GRY 60D is likewise saved for posterity at the Transport Museum, Wythall.

Peter Murnaghan

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23/11/12 – 15:18

I’m Vice Chairman of Taybus Vintage Vehicle Society in Dundee and we had a request from a lady in France a couple of years ago for a clutch for an ex-Leicester PD3 which still carried its original registration. I actually e-mailed the Leicester preservation Group and told them about it. From memory, I think the bus was GRY 55D, so it still survives. We were also able to point her in the right direction for a clutch so I’m hoping the bus is still running.

Mike Assiph

Photograph by ‘unknown’ if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Wakefields Motors Ltd
Leyland Titan PD3/4
1958
Metro-Cammell ‘Orion’ H41/32R

This 1958 Metro-Cammell Orion bodied Leyland PD3/4 was one of 12 in the Tynemouth and Wakefields fleet. They were AFT 924/35 fleet numbers 224/35; the last two carried the Wakefields name. The Northern General Transport group had quite a number of these and although ‘livery apart’ they all looked much the same, the Percy Main vehicles had a much higher interior spec. 235 ‘seen here parked alongside one of the earlier Orion Guy Arabs’, is for some reason missing a front wheel trim, most unusual for the normally very high standards of the depot. I started at Percy Main in 1967 and by then these vehicles were nearly 9 years old, but by all accounts they had lost none of their original sparkle. They weren’t the most handsome half cab I’ve ever driven, my vote for that title would go to the 1956 Park Royal Guy Arab IV’s, the 1957 Willowbrook PD2/12’s with the same O.600 Leyland engine were livelier, but the heavier PD3 was, in my opinion a much better vehicle. But lets not kid ourselves they were not perfect, the brakes left a lot to be desired, by todays standards they would probably be considered underpowered, and they didn’t have power steering. However, they were well maintained and regular application of grease to the steering linkage meant that it was always light and positive, they were also very forgiving and treated with respect they were fun to drive. To a young lad of 21 the thing I loved about them was that wonderful raucous throaty sound they had, and once you got them wound up they could clip on a bit, conductors liked them as well because they stayed reasonably upright, so they never had the sensation that they were at times practically walking on the windows when you went round corners. All things considered, apart from an occasional reluctance to stop, they were a good honest reliable workhorse, and many drivers, myself included, preferred them to the Atlantean PDR1/1.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ronnie Hoye

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02/11/12 – 07:32

Excellent. I worked in the North-East in the 1970s but, by then, Wakefield’s and several other subsidiaries of Northern General had disappeared. I think only Sunderland District and Gateshead were left.
Can you still shop at Binns?

Geoff Kerr

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02/11/12 – 10:48

BINNS were part of the House Of Fraser group, and there is still a store in Gateshead. No doubt one of the "local" readers can tell us if it still has the same trading name, but the group’s branch in Skipton is still called RACKHAMS.

Pete Davies

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02/11/12 – 15:22

The only proper MCW bodied NGT PD3 I ever saw was a late survivor in NBC "knicker pink" and white and it still looked good! My favourite Northern Group Titans were the Burlingham bodied ones of Sunderland poetry in motion.

Chris Hough

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02/11/12 – 15:23

As Geoff says, by 1970 all vehicles based at Percy Main were ‘Tynemouth’ by 1975 that name along with all the other Northern General subsidiary names and their liveries had also disappeared to become Northern which by then was part of NBC.
On the BINNS subject, they had outlets at most of the larger towns an Cities throughout the North and into Scotland, ‘including one in Edinburgh’ but as Pete points out they became part of ‘The House of Fraser’ group, and as far as I’m aware the BINNS name has also gone.

Ronnie Hoye

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02/11/12 – 15:24

When i was a youngster I went to stay with my sister and her husband who lived in Darlington. The Shop At Binns was on nearly every bus of the day, I have just googled Binns and all I got was The House Of Fraser.

David J Henighan

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02/11/12 – 15:26

Rackhams, Skipton: I bet that was once Brown, Muffs of Bradford, the K5G of the retail world. Alas! Rackhams were originally a Birmingham store, and the name was later transferred to Walsh’s in Sheffield.

Joe

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09/11/12 – 13:05

I worked at Percy Main as a conductor in 1971 and by that time the early Atlanteans had really lost their sparkle; they were very sluggish and the steering could be very stiff. The PD3s still gave a good account of themselves, though, even though they were older. PD3s were the end result of the long evolution of the front-engine half-cab, while early Atlanteans had hydraulics and other new features that were worn out after 10 years.
I think that there were 6 PD3s at Percy Main in 1971 because the other 6 had been transferred to other parts of the Northern group in exchange for single-deckers used on service 15 when it became OPO in 1968. When other routes became OPO in 1971 and other single-deckers got drafted in, the vehicles that were transferred out were Atlanteans, some of them to scrap. The PD3s carried on and, while some went elsewhere in the group, other PD3s came in.
They were stable and good for a conductor. They also did have a good turn of speed. There were a few duplicate trips on the New Coast Road that were often a PD3 and they could get up an impressive speed even with a full load. Fuel consumption was high though.

P Robson

26/06/13 – 06:00

Were the reds of Tynemouth, Wakefield and Northern during 1950/60s officially different. I was a regular user of all three then I have always been convinced they were. Certainly I remember seeing Tynemouths standing next to Wakefields at Northumberland Quay many times and they WERE different, all three of them. Or is this case like LNER Doncaster and Darlington Apple Green, the same – but different!

Don T

26/06/13 – 11:50

All NGT group vehicles came out of the same Paint shop, Don, so it may be a case of one batch of paint being a slightly different shade to the next. Percy Main vehicles, Tynemouth and Wakefields, were painted at three yearly intervals, and red is of course notorious for fading, add to that three years of going through the wash every night and that may be the answer.

Ronnie Hoye

29/06/13 – 07:34

I’m delighted to see Wakefield’s Motors getting their due recognition, thanks to Ronnie. As easily the most ‘obscure’ of the Northern Group subsidiaries, they are often forgotten. Tyneside was scarcely any bigger in terms of total fleet strength but Wakefield’s fleet included coaches – some of which have recently been discussed on here – and so their service buses were much rarer.
As an avowed Orion aficionado, I think this photograph is quite magnificent and, to me, the epitome of what a ‘proper’ bus should look like. I know that Orions are not universally popular but I’m particularly interested in Mr Robson’s comments vindication of Tynemouth’s in view of his experience ‘on the back’.

Alan Hall