Photograph by ‘unknown’ if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Blackpool Corporation
1959
Leyland Titan PD2/27
Metro Cammell Weymann FH35/28R

Blackpool were really into the full frontal look I think it was to make them look like the trams that Blackpool is famous for. Before these normal looking full frontal Titans they had other versions which they classed as ‘streamlined’. The bodies were built by Burlingham a local body builder, I think they were bought out by the better know company called Duple.
There is a photo of a ‘streamlined’ Blackpool Leyland Titan here.

A full list of Titan codes can be seen here.

This photo is clearly of 334 (PFR 334), not 344. Good pic, though. 334 was one of a batch of 30 numbered 331-350. The 1960 abc British Bus Fleets No.6 (Lancashire), shows the seating as 61, reduced to 59 in the summer (for increased luggage space?). Burlingham were based in Blackpool and after the Duple takeover, the factory was known as Duple (Northern).

A Woods

Thanks for that, new glasses required I think, I have altered the heading so it is now correct.

Does your 1960 abc book have the above vehicle as a PD2/27 as my 1965 version because the website ‘Bus Lists on the Web’ has it has a PD2/40?

The 1965 abc British Bus Fleets No.6 lists a batch of 50 as the following:-
301 – 310 PD2/21
311 – 350 PD2/27

The ‘Bus Lists on the Web’ site as the same batch of 50 as the following:-
301 – 310 PD2/21
311 – 330 PD2/27
331 – 350 PD2/40

Can anyone solve this anomaly.

Peter

There is certainly plenty of odd information about these buses. I quote from two sources:
In "Blackpool’s Buses", by David Dougill, the fleet list shows 301-305 as PD2/21 with Burlingham bodies, while 306-310 had MCW bodies. 311-350 were PD2/27 with MCW bodies. "Trams and Buses Around Blackpool" by the well-know duo Steve Palmer and Brian Turner gives the same detail. The only difference between 311-330 and 331-350 is that the earlier numbers were delivered in 1958 and the later ones arrived in 1959.

Pete Davies

The PD2/40 was an exposed radiator variant of the breed I would suggest that Blackpool had no exposed radiator buses delivered post war. Early ones had full font bodies to a Blackpool design by Burlingham while later examples both fully fronted and half cab had variations on the Leyland Titan tin front Some of Blackpools PD3s had an asymmetrical full front due to the revised "St Helens front" of concealed radiator PD3s

Chris Hough

Chris, I’m no Blackpool expert but do I recall in the murky recesses of the mind that sometimes "exposed" radiators with smaller blocks were provided for certain full-front applications? Does that clarify – or muddy – the waters?

David Oldfield

This bus survived longer than most of its classmates as, along with 337, it was converted for use a Permanent Way staff bus in which guise they were numbered 434/7 (346 also worked for the Electrical Services department).
From my time at Blackpool I have a 1978 fleet list which shows these as PD2/27s which entered service on 25th and 26th March 1959 respectively.

David Beilby

Blackpool 334 was a PD2/27 as David Beilby confirms. To answer David Oldfield, Leyland supplied the ‘exposed radiator’ version of the Titan for full front designs where the front grille was part of the body design rather than being one of Leyland’s standard fronts. Examples are Ribble’s PD3’s with Burlingham and MCW bodies and the Southdown ‘Queen Mary’ Northern Counties bodied PD3’s. They were PD3/4 and PD3/5’s. As Blackpool used both the standard Leyland BMMO and St Helens style bonnets in their full fronts these Titans were the concealed front chassis types, PD2/21,PD2/27,PD3/1 and finally PD3A/1. The latter had the asymmetrical front windows with the nearside windscreen ‘drooping’ down to follow the shape of the St Helens style bonnet. This arrangement was also used on PD3A/2’s operated by Bolton Corporation with both East Lancs and MCW forward entrance bodies.

Philip Halstead

02/02/11 – 10:00

I was the last driver of PFR 339, one of the buses mentioned in the above article. It was being used as a play bus for the Wisbech area and survived in a working state until 1982. It used to move from one school to another in this area to provide a base for play schools in village where none existed. Gradually these village were able to form their own playgroups in accommodation of their own so PFR 339 worked at achieving it’s own demise. Eventually in 1982 it stayed in one school for a few years as a permanent base, but was eventually replaced by a more suitable form of accommodation. Clement Freud and his wife Jill were instrumental in setting it up in the first place.

Peter Thatcher

04/11/18 – 07:21

When I were a nipper as the saying goes me, my sister took a day trip to Blackpool. We went by Ribble X61, a DP Leyland Leopard out and a White Lady Atlantean (RRN reg) back to Liverpool.
We had a ride on a Balloon tram (two 1s, two 6d). We kept the ticket for years,it was a TIM issue. From the tram ticket we got the date 8th August, 1968.
Note the date. I spotted a BRAND NEW gleaming Leyland Titan PD3A, which could only have been LFR 538/9/40G when a week old. Sadly they were Blackpool’s last such buses but they gave good service unlike many mid-late 1960s back loader of which only the Routemaster had a long life
In my opinion the St Helens bonnet didn’t suit a full front, which Blackpool Corporation recognised by specifying half cabs for 381-399 and 500-540. The 1950s Leyland Titans would have looked better with a Ribble style grille, but I guess BCT wanted to be different! .

Paul Mason

Yorkshire Woollen District Transport
1963
Leyland Titan PD2
Roe H63R

Now this gets interesting according to my book this is a 1950 Leyland Titan PD2/3 with a Roe H56R body. Well it is defiantly not a rear entrance that’s plain to see and the registration of just two letters I think came well before 1950. I think its time to get Googleing
Here is a result found on the SCT ’61 website the link takes you to a better photo of the same bus, the info found does make sense to me it is as follows.
“Yorkshire Woollen rebuilt a number of Leyland Tiger PS single deckers as double deck vehicles in the 1950s and 1960s. One such is HD8553, a PS2/5 given a Roe front entrance body in 1962 and numbered 699 – later renumbered 502 by YWD.
This bus and its brethren survived long enough to receive NBC livery.”

I think your history is wrong.
A large number of PS1s were rebodied. I saw one of the first which was painted "Poppy Red" in Frost Hill depot parked in the middle of the depot It looked terrible then. The new bodies were MCW Orion.
They weighed less after re-bodying than when original.
They were very noisy and cold as the new bodies were single skinned.
The photograph is one of a small batch of PS2s which were rebuilt much later. the chassis were rebuilt by YWD with new chassis sides, they originally had a bolt on chassis extension as the rules changed when they were originally built. I think there were only 8 rebuilt. A like number were sold to Yorkshire Traction for rebuilding the only difference was that the Yorkshire Traction rebuilds were reregistered. I never found out why.

E. Malone

I will investigate this further find my own information and get back, check with the ’Latest Comments’ page for any update.
Here are the details of a batch of six Leyland Tiger PS2/5 chassis that were re-bodied by Roe to H35/28F in 1963 Reg no HD 8551-4 and HD 8562-3 they went into service with fleet nos 697-700 and 708-9 respectively.
The above photograph is one of this batch and this information backs up the original article.
An extra piece of information I found is that the original Tigers were probable bodied by Willowbrook with a B38F body and were first built in 1950.
The PS1 chassis you mention were a batch of 24 originally built in 1948 the registrations are a bit haphazard but are late HD 7800s and very early 7900s the fleet nos are a bit the same but they all fall between 562-631. These were re-bodied by Metro-Cammell with H56R ‘Orion’ bodies in 1954-5.

Peter

Richard Malone is wrong about the colour. Poppy red only came in with NBC.  The closest to the original colour was Post Office red. I know this from a YWD Fleetline I owned at one time.
There were 75 Brush bodied Leyland Tigers PS1s, fleet numbers 558-632 registration HD7841-7915. In 1954 12 of these were rebodied as double deckers with fleet numbers (562/75/7/97/8/9/603/11/3/4/6/20) with a weight of 6.8.1 tons. A further 12 were rebodied in 1955 as fleet numbers (570/4/83/7/8/96/618/24/7/8/30/1) with a weight of 6.7.0 tons. It is interesting to note that they weighed 6.9.1 tons as Tiger single deckers.
I own the only survivor of the original batch of Brush bodied Tiger PS1s fleet no 622 registration HD 7905 which can be seen here.
The Willowbrook/PS2s, 697-725, HD8551-79 (and OPD2s, 728-733, HD8710-5) were built in 1949. They were originally 27’6" long with B32F bodies these were then lengthened to 30′ B38F by Willowbrook between June 1954 and June 1955. Six were rebodied by Roe as H63F (697-700/8/9) for YWD a further nine went to YTC (701/4/6/7/10/1/2/4/6) in 1962, rebodied by Northern Counties as front entrance double deckers. (One of these still exists.)

Gordon Brooke

The subject of re registrations of bus rebuilds is an interesting one. I was always curios about the batch of Leyland PS2s that were rebodied as double deckers by both Yorkshire Traction and Yorkshire Woollen. The Y W D ones kept their old 2 letter HD marks yet the YTC ones were allocated new YHE marks of the time. Another example of these double standards concerns County Motors of Lepton owned by YTC, YWD and West Riding. In 1955 they had two elderly single deckers rebodied as double deckers. They wanted to give them new registrations but Huddersfield CBC would not allow this so they were transferred to Barnsley where they were given new marks of the time.

Philip Carlton

Difficult to tell from the photo if the width of this vehicle, was a PS2/5 7ft 6in or 8ft wide? The original batch of re-bodies, from PS1 chassis were certainly 7ft 6in Orions. When Birch Bros had some PD1’s re-bodied with Orions by MCW a year or so later, they were virtually identical even down to the destination display. Maybe the same drawings were used!

Chris Barker

01/01/14 – 09:14

I drove these buses in 1965 at this time I lived in Heckmondwyke and worked at Becklane Depot I remember the P duties they worked Mirfield Bradford 65 service they seemed to be sluggish pullers..

Jack

03/01/14 – 10:00

I would like to comment on the "Hales Cake" vehicle shown in Colin Shears yard. It is a Leyland TS7 and was East Midland Motor Services No10 BAL 610. In the 1950s I worked at EMMS Chesterfield workshops at this time after I left school and remember this vehicle well it was one of eighteen rebodied by Willowbrook in 1948 it looked far better in EMMS livery of biscuit cream and brown picture shown in Mikes afterlifes.

Jack

26/10/16 – 06:41

I remember the forward entrance versions of these rebodies on B and C services from Ossett to Fir Cottage in YWD red and cream and then NBC poppy red not bad for a bus built as a single decker in the late 1940s and still in service in the 1970s we cannot say that today, by the way I liked them as much as AEC Regent Vs.

David Parkin

27/10/16 – 08:17

To answer Chris Barker’s question from way back, the PS2/5 was 8 feet wide.

Peter Williamson

28/10/16 – 07:37

Peter W, thanks for your answer, I’m certain that these vehicles reverted to their original length of 27ft 6ins. upon rebuilding as double deckers, the seating capacity of 63 seems to support this. However, when they ran as single deckers, presumably they had drop frame extensions to enable the provision of luggage boots and then they were extended to 30ft length, still with drop frame rears, so was the chassis itself extended? When they became double deckers, a drop frame extension would have been of no use on a front entrance d/d but if it was simply removed, the rear overhang would have needed supporting somehow, I imagine new chassis frames were the only answer. Perhaps it might have been easier to rebody them as 30ft double deckers!

Chris Barker

31/03/17 – 15:37

The registration of just two letters I think came well before 1950.
Dewsbury didn’t reach HD 9999 until November 1953 – while it took until April 1960 for Bootle to reach EM 9999 and August 1960 for Rutland to reach FP 9999.
And nine Scottish counties didn’t reach 9999 with two letters before the year suffix system was introduced in 1964/5 – Buteshire famously only getting as far as SJ 2860.

Des Elmes

06/09/17 – 06:44

Chris Barker, I think you will find that NONE of the PS1 or 2’s owned by YWD had luggage boots. The emergency door was in the middle at the back on both those models.

Ron Lake

Halifax Corporation Transport and Joint Omnibus Committee
1965
Leyland Titan PD2/37
Weymann H36/28F

Halifax buses with fleet numbers below 200 were owned by Halifax corporation, fleet numbers above 200 were owned by the Joint Omnibus Committee.
Photo taken 100 yards from where I used to live. Travelled miles on these Titans.

11/03/11 – 16:18

Nice shot made even better with the Yorkshire hills as a back drop.

Roger Broughton

11/03/11 – 18:58

Steep Lane terminus was perched on the apex of a hill with the reverse manoeuvre carried out by pulling up another hill to the left. There were magnificent views over the Calder Valley from the terminus. If you go there today you may well see preserved buses outside the premises of Yorkshire Heritage Bus Company down below adjacent to the railway line at Luddendenfoot. An unusual feature of Halifax buses pre Fleetline was that the double stainless top rails on the saloon seats had a timber infill with two long finger grips on each side. It’s not something I have come across anywhere else. One (or more?) small brackets were part of the stainless rails which located and secured the timber. Halifax used a rather pleasant ‘Autumn Leaves’ moquette for the lower saloon seating material. The short PD2/37 model was ideal for some of the narrow roads and sharp corners in the Calder and Ryburn Valleys.

Ian Wild

29/05/11 – 07:05

These vehicles did not have the wooden seat infill I think they were the last Weymann bodies as this factory went on strike and closed, some 10 chassis being diverted to Roe. A change away from the brown for double deck specification and removal of leather trim reduced the price and I think they had moquette downstairs and green plastic seats upstairs, I too travelled to school on these when new, they were much nicer than the 241-248 batch

Christopher

22/09/11 – 14:05

Regarding the wooden infill between the double top rails on the seats, I may be wrong here but I seem to recall seeing the same thing on the Bury Corporation PD3/6’s (with GEN registrations). If this was the case it would perhaps not be surprising since they were the last buses ordered by Richard LeFevre whilst GM at Bury, before he moved to Halifax and ordered similar, but forward entrance, PD3’s there. There is a Bury PD3 preserved, maybe someone involved with it could confirm or otherwise.

John Stringer

04/02/12 – 05:27

I seem to recall the earlier Bury Corporation Weymann bodied PD2’s also had the wooden seat infill which supports the theory that it was a LeFevre feature. These PD2’s also had the same destination display which Mr LeFevre took to Halifax. The Bury PD3/6’s had the Nottingham style ‘T’ shape destination display which infers they were actually delivered after Frank Thorpe had moved to Bury from Nottingham.

Philip Halstead

05/02/12 – 06:48

I said "I may be wrong here" – and I was! I met up with the preserved ex-Bury PD3 at the Nocturnal Heart of the Pennines Rally in Halifax last October, and it did not have the wooden seat infills, but I’m still pretty sure I did once see them on some Bury bus or other whilst on a bus club visit there. Do we not concern ourselves with the most obscure things ?

John Stringer

05/02/12 – 16:20

This last batch of Weymann bodied PD2/37 buses for Halifax was delayed by the strike at the Addlestone works. In January 1966, a contingent of staff from HPTD, including Geoff Hilditch himself, set off in Leopard 269 and collected the final few (nine, if I remember correctly) of this order, returning in convoy to Halifax. CJX 329C was one of these.

Roger Cox

05/02/12 – 16:29

This pic. captures very well how smart the Halifax livery could be and even enhance the looks of the Orion style body. If neglected and faded though this livery could look quite shabby.

Eric

06/02/12 – 07:37

It was the orange that faded badly in service, and matching the colour on replacement panels was virtually impossible. It seems that, on 8 August 1956, when Roderick MacKenzie was GM of Halifax, Daimler CVG6 MCCW H33/26R No 285 appeared wearing a reversed livery which had the orange at the top and the green on the lower panels. The negative reaction was so pronounced that the bus was quickly repainted, but the effect surely cannot have been that bad, being rather similar, I would think, to the old, attractive Chatham and District colour scheme. I suspect that good old Yorkshire traditionalism played a part in the antipathy towards the revised colour layout. I am a little surprised that GGH didn’t try this idea again. The maintenance savings would have made it worthwhile.

Roger Cox

06/02/12 – 07:38

Hope I don’t digress here. Whilst I don’t recall the Bury PD3/6’s having wooden infills I most certainly do recall that all the handrails on these buses were light green. Over time this coating wore off to expose the normal silvery metal. This was particularly so where the handrails were highly used by the doors etc. I agree that these buses were a Frank Thorpe style, not only Nottingham and Bury but Newport too. Similar style buses for all three undertakings had two track route number displays both with a small white rectangle to line up and give tidy displays. When viewed from outside the rectangle on the ‘tens’ display was on the right and that on the ‘units’ display was on the left – thus were both between the two displayed numbers resembling a decimal point of sorts so much so that a school chum of mine always referred to service 19 buses as ‘one point nine’

David Slater

06/02/12 – 13:37

Halifax buses generally looked magnificent when newly repainted, but as Eric says they could fade really badly.
By the time I undertook my PSV training in the Summer of 1973 the ex-East Yorkshire ‘Yellow Peril’ full-fronted PD2 Training Bus (403, MKH 81)) had been sold, and there was temporarily no ‘proper’ training vehicle. Instead two PD2 services buses were mostly used, both having expired CoF’s, and which were awaiting overhaul and recertification. These were 67 (DCP 67D) and 221 (MCP 221). Other spare PD2’s were used as well if they were available for a couple of hours or so. The first bus I ever drove was 67. New in 1966 it had reached the end of its initial 7-year CoF, had never been repainted during that time, and now looked really thoroughly down at heel and disgraceful.
Before Skircoat Garage was remodelled in the early 1980’s, there were two old bus side panels attached to the top of one of the rear outside walls just below roof level. They were painted in bands of different shades of green and orange, apparently as a long term trial of various different paint manufacturers’ products to assess their different weathering characteristics. How long they had been up there I never found out.
During the early days of WYPTE, those buses still in the old HPT livery mostly looked absolutely awful – not only very faded paintwork, and in umpteen different shades, but often with scrapes and dents that would never have been tolerated in HPT days. Some even had new panels still in unpainted aluminium, or in a reddish-brown primer, and were an absolute embarrassment to be seen driving, to be honest.
When I was a young child back in the late ‘fifties though, I can remember that the livery used to fade even worse, turning into almost matt pastel shades – the orange becoming almost pale yellow, the green a wishy washy dirty pale shade, and the cream more like off-white. This was probably due to the paint technology of the period and heavy industrial pollution, rather than neglect. Some of the worst were the Joint Committee’s ACP-registered Regent III’s, which probably never received the remedial strengthening work that some of the others had, and which were the first to be sold off in 1958/59.
I recall waking one morning in 1958 to find several of these and other types lined up along the road in front of our house, all with their coats of arms and fleet numbers painted out. Apparently they had been sold to a dealer in London (this would be A.M.C.C) and their drivers were partaking of a hearty breakfast in the nearby transport cafe before setting off on the long journey south. Eventually I watched them all fire up and depart in convoy, and felt really sad to see this shabby, faded and dejected collection vanish round the corner and out of sight.

John Stringer

07/03/12 – 08:43

It is correct to say that Bury had wooden fillets on some batches of its fleet this was a Richard LeFevre design which came about after a female passenger broke her wrist when she fell forward whilst trying to steady herself against the seat top after the bus pulled up sharp. The idea transferred to Halifax when Mr LeFevre became GM along with the Bury destination box too!

Richard McAllister

08/03/12 – 07:05

It’s worth noting that the current accessibility regulations for tramcars (and possibly other modes as well) recognise this issue and prohibit small apertures such as that between the top handrail and the seat frame, for this very reason. Bury and Halifax were clearly quite advanced!

David Beilby

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

04/04/12 – 16:29

I thought I had a picture somewhere showing the wooden infills between the top seat rails. Here is what was Halifax Corporation 73, by this time WYPTE 3073, near Mount Tabor on 17th January 1976. Note this batch came after the JOC ones such as 289 and both Weymann-bodied batches DID have these wooden fillers, I’ve checked with my photographs. However, the Roe-bodied ones did not.

David Beilby

05/04/12 – 18:21

Here is a link to another photo of the interior of a Halifax Leyland showing the wooden seat infills.  //www.flickr.com/  
On this site there are some really fascinating and atmospheric photo’s of Halifax and WYPTE Calderdale buses taken in service by former driver John Thompson in the 1970’s.

John Stringer

20/07/15 – 06:54

Bit late I know but the wooden I fills in the seat back rails were used on Burys Weymann PD2s and the two AECs, numbered 176-186. The earlier Weymann PD2s in the 151-175 number series may also have had them, but they were pretty much on the way out by the time I was old enough to identify the different types so I can’t say for certain.

David Pomfret