H W Hunter and Sons
1952
Leyland Royal Tiger
Plaxton C43F (1966)

Hunter’s were a family run business who went for quality rather than quantity. They bought well in the first place, and as we’ve seen before on this site, their vehicles were well looked after and meticulously maintained. ZV 2428 is probably an age related registration that was issued when the original was transferred to someone’s car. That number is on a vehicle that is part of the N.E.B.P.T. Ltd collection. The vehicle in question belonged to H W Hunter and Sons, and is a Leyland Royal Tiger that they bought new in 1952, it came to them as a Burlingham Seagull, and being 1952, I presume it would have been a centre entrance. In 1966, they had it rebodied by Plaxton as a C43F. This vehicle, EJR 791, has an identical history, so the question is, is this in fact the same vehicle, or was it one of a pair?

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ronnie Hoye

30/06/13 – 09:42

Ronnie, nice view!
I remember some vehicles in what was then the Les Gleave Group being lengthened and rebodied in the 1960s. Roman City in Bath did the same trick – using Harrington – on at least one Royal Tiger they bought from Ribble. EJR 791, according to the PSVC preserved bus listing for 2012 is indeed ZV2428, at that time with Universal, Portlaoise.

Pete Davies

I thought ZV and similar registrations are what are popularly known as "Paddy Plates" (I claim Irish blood and am allowed to say this) -Irish registrations with the great advantage of not revealing the (venerable?) age of the coach. These seem/seemed popular with small operators who used them as "personalised" plates.

Joe

01/07/13 – 07:18

The ZV2428 Number probably means that this coach spent some time in Ireland. The ZV plate is used here for imported vehicles that come under a "vintage" registration class which covers vehicles over 30 years old.

David Jones

01/07/13 – 07:35

Mention of the Les Gleave Group lengthening and rebodying a number of Leyland Royal Tigers brought to mind this photo of one of these coaches taken in Eastbourne in the mid sixties registered 2048 LG the body style indicates the work was carried out around 1961/62.
There is a photo of an identical coach at that time belonging to Campings of Brighton registered 501 WLG taken at the 1964 Brighton Coach Rally posted on the SCT 61 Photo Gallery section covering Plaxtons.

Diesel Dave

01/07/13 – 10:50

Only Northern Ireland plates can be used in Britain in the way Joe describes.
ZV is used in the Irish Republic, as David suggests, when registering a vehicle older than 30 years.

Geoff Kerr

02/07/13 – 07:35

It is the same vehicle. EJR 701 is a Leyland PSU1/15 which was new to Hunter’s in March 1952 as their no 19; it had a Burlingham C41C body. In January 1966 it was rebodied by Plaxton to C43F and renumbered 27. In June 1977 it was acquired by OK Motor Services. In January 1984 it was transferred to Lockey’s which had itself been acquired by OKMS in October 1983 and was functioning at the time as an OK subsidiary; EJR carried the ‘Lockeys Burn Line’ fleetname, but OKMS livery. In August 1985 it, together with the rest of Lockey’s extant fleet, returned to OKMS with whom it remained until June 1987.

Alan Hall

06/07/13 – 16:02

I like the zero-(or possibly negative-)offset front wheels on the lengthened Royal Tiger from Diesel Dave, which give the bus a real heavy-vehicle look. One reason that I dislike wheel-trims (especially those ghastly wobbling chrome things) is that they obliterate much of a vehicle’s identity and character, and can add difficulty to a historian’s job. Thankfully, no such nonsense with 2048 LG!

Ian Thompson

28/04/15 – 07:02

This vehicle (if it is the same one) now carries registration RCI 541 (a traditional Laois plate) and is still with Universal, Portlaoise (John O’Brien). https://www.flickr.com/photos/midlanddeltic/17225777661/
I have found a couple of pics showing it carrying ZV2428 which, as suggested above, is a "heritage" plate for imported / re-registered vehicles. //victoryguy.smugmug.com/keyword/ZV2428;zv2428/

Sean Marshall

13/11/21 – 06:09

Pete Davies: In your post of 30/06/13 you have implied that Roman City had an ex-Ribble Royal Tiger lengthened and rebodied by Harrington. The only Roman City vehicle I know to have been rebodied by Harrington was FRN 982, a Tiger Cub, not Royal Tiger, ex-Scout, rather than Ribble, and it retained its original length (more or less).
The ‘Wikipedia’ page on Harrington refers to the vehicle as being ex-Ribble, so that may be where you got the Ribble connection.

David Call

Copyright Pete Davies

Warwickshire Miners
1953
Leyland Royal Tiger PSU1/16
Leyland C41C

Here are two views of GJT 29 for your perusal. She is a Leyland Royal Tiger PSU1/16, with Leyland’s own C41C bodywork, and is seen at the Southsea rally on 17 June 1984. The odd feature about her is that she was never a PSV. She was built in 1953 (according to the PSVC listing) as a staff bus for a mining and/or quarrying firm in the Purbeck area of Dorset. PSVC lists the original owners as Warwickshire Miners and I’m supposing that the Dorset operation was a subsidiary. She was in use with a Scout group in the area at the time of the photographs.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

22/03/13 – 08:03

The Purbeck area of Dorset there is an Oil field still producing a lot of oil, so it is probably that site in which GJT 29 transported the staff.

David J Henighan

22/03/13 – 16:37

The mining industry had various convalescent homes around the country which were regionalised (S. Wales, Yorkshire, Warwickshire) and the latter had a home in Swanage (Durlston Court). This one was called the Warwickshire Miners’ Convalescent Home, which is the full title of the owner of the coach. I wonder if the coach had been pensioned off by then, but bought/passed on for the nearby oilfield’s employees.

Chris Hebbron

22/03/13 – 16:37

I believe the Royal Tiger was used by the Warwickshire Miners’ Convalescent Home (Durlston Court, Park Road, Swanage) to transport its patients.

John Stringer

22/03/13 – 16:38

Here she is in preservation. www.flickr.com/one  According to Preserved Buses (2006 Edition), she was owned by Massingham of Slough but that may have changed by now of course.

John Darwent

22/03/13 – 16:39

There is a Warwickshire Miners Convalescent Home in Swanage. I believe that it has since been demolished. This maybe the reason for the Dorset registration.
Also see the following picture on flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/two

Stephen Bloomfield

23/03/13 – 07:51

John…
Would you know where to look or search for if GJT 29 is still with us…
I’ve tried the usual Googling and nothing other than links back to this site and flickr…
These vehicles are one of my all time favourites but I haven’t seen one in the flesh for maybe 50 years now…We had a thread sometime during last year and I was asking if it would be possible to find one during our annual visit back to the UK and (I think it was) Neville Mercer, but apologies if I’m wrong there, suggested that there may only be two of these beauties left – one at the Scottish Bus Museum in Fife and another, perhaps, somewhere in Yorkshire…
If this one was in a preserved condition as recently as 2006, maybe it’s still in ownership somewhere and I’d love to be able to see it during this year’s visit…

Stuart C

23/03/13 – 09:02

Stuart, GJT is listed in the PSVC edition for 2012 as being with Massingham, Slough. I’ve no idea what condition she’s in!

Pete Davies

24/03/13 – 15:06

. . . and I forgot! Pennine still have the former demonstrator, MTD 235. My sources tell me she’s stored in the garage in Skipton (the former Ribble place in Broughton Road) but others say she’s at Barnoldswick. The Ribble Vehicle Preservation Trust used to have one, possibly two, but their website didn’t mention them when I looked last.

Pete Davies

26/03/13 – 06:35

Many quality vehicles ended their working lives as workmens or staff buses, but not many would have started that way. You would expect a new vehicle to have been from the lightweight end of the market rather than a Royal Tiger.

Ronnie Hoye

26/03/13 – 08:59

To be fair, Ronnie, it’s not clear that it did start as a workmen’s bus. But you make a good point that, even if the vehicle had been acquired by the convalescent home for patient use, why was it such a heavyweight? It’s all shrouded in mystery, as ever!

Chris Hebbron

26/03/13 – 16:10

Thanks very much….If I track down GJT later this year, then I’ll update everyone….Fingers crossed she’s still in one piece !

Stuart C

27/03/13 – 06:40

The various "Unions of Mineworkers" – Warwickshire, Durham, Kent etc (the National Union of Mineworkers [NUM] was a federation of the regional unions/areas) each had their own convalescent homes for sick/retired mineworkers. A coach would be required to transport residents around the local area, and also to ferry residents between the home and place of residence: I would assume that the coach would spend most of its time on "local" work around the home, with regular – but less frequent – trips to collect/return patients to the place of residence, so perhaps it made sense to register the coach in the area where it would spend most of its time (Dorset) rather than Warwickshire. I’m sure a lightweight could have done the job, but a heavyweight would have done it better and would make a "statement": don’t forget that until the mid-1980s the NUM areas were very wealthy bodies – a new heavyweight would make a powerful statement of "who we are" and "how we care for our members", both to those inside and outside the organisation.

Philip Rushworth

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

30/10/13 – 07:03

Ribble 377 the all Leyland Royal Tiger PSU/13 ERN 700 is with the Ribble preservation group and restoration is on going, though it is a 44 seat Bus variant.

Cyril Aston

Copyright John Stringer

Gore’s of Southport
1951
Leyland Royal Tiger PSU1/15
Burlingham Seagull C37C new – C41C ??/??

Gore’s Coaches was the trading name of the Southport & Birkdale Motor and Carriage Co. Ltd. of Southport.
I was quite taken aback to come across this late survivor of the Royal Tiger/Burlingham Seagull marque in such fine fettle outside Liverpool Lime Street Railway Station, whilst on an enthusiasts’ visit to Birkenhead and Wallasey on 13th June 1971. This one deserved to have survived into preservation – I wonder what became of it ?

Photograph and Copy contributed by John Stringer

17/02/13 – 07:34

Super picture and beautiful vehicle – doesn’t look twenty years old, more like twenty months.

David Oldfield

17/02/13 – 13:31

Very nice, John! Thanks for posting. Reading Corporation (I see you don’t list any from that fleet yet, Peter) had assorted single deckers, even into the RE era, with the Burlingham trademark on the front. Flattery gets you everywhere!

Pete Davies

17/02/13 – 17:31

Any Burlingham will do for me – apart from the hideous flying pig (c1959) on Bedford/Ford chassis!

David Oldfield

18/02/13 – 11:00

It would be a hard job to make one of these look bad, but no doubt some of todays ‘Corporate Image Experts’ would have a good try.

Ronnie Hoye

18/02/13 – 12:08

Yes Ronnie, but imagine one in National white – that would be bad enough!

David Oldfield

18/02/13 – 12:11

Pete D: There are a selection of Reading views in Roger Cox’s gallery Reading Corporation Transport

Alan Murray-Rust

18/02/13 – 16:24

Thank you, Alan, but Roger’s views (good as they are) don’t appear in the column to the left, so a newcomer to the site may not know there are any of this operator without a closer study. I’ve found a few to submit for consideration and will fire them off to our Editor in the course of the next few weeks.

Pete Davies

19/02/13 – 15:23

Very true, David, the National all white reminded me of the factory finish commercial vehicles were delivered in prior to painting. It’s not so much all one colour that’s the problem, choice of colour could make all the difference on what were very similar vehicles. Take a Plaxton body for example, National all white? drab and anonymous, Glenton on the other hand were quietly restrained and dignified.

Ronnie Hoye

19/02/13 – 15:23

PSVC gives this coach as withdrawn by Gore’s in 11/72, with no further owner recorded. Evidently reseated to C41C at some time prior to this photo, but recorded as C37C, as given above, when new.

David Williamson

22/09/14 – 14:37

I am not a bus or coach driver, just a casual visitor to this site, but it occurred to me that there is a serious front overhang on the coach above. Did it not make it difficult to drive? I once drove a 3 ton truck on a one off 20 mile trip. That gave me the sensation of being slightly drunk. I would have thought that you would have felt completely plastered, driving the above!

Martin Robinson

28/10/14 – 16:52

There is a Burlingham Seagull advertised on eBay at the moment. //www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201202508209?clk_rvr_id=721251652239
I don’t know how accurate the listing is.
It says 1958 Bedford SB8 Classic Vintage Coach yet further down it says it has a Leyland 350 engine.
Did they put Leyland engines in the Bedford chassis?

John Lomas

29/10/14 – 06:59

They did fit Leyland engines, John, but I doubt the Leyland 0.350 is original. I don’t think the SB13 (with 0.350) was available in 1958 – more likely an SB8 (with 0.330). The 0.350 was probably a retrofit. 1958 was actually very close to the end of SBO and introduction of SB5 and SB8. I’m not expert enough in this part of Bedford’s history to be sure of dates – I only know the specifications. The SBG morphed into the classic SB3 (300 Bedford petrol), the SBO became the SB5 (330 Bedford diesel) and the SB8 (0.330 Leyland diesel) was an addition to the range. I believe the SB13 (0.350 Leyland diesel) eventually replaced the SB8 but everything was outlasted by the SB5 which continued (albeit with a new, indecipherable code) until the bitter end in 1985.

David Oldfield

29/10/14 – 06:59

Yes, Bedford SB8 and SB13 models had Leyland engines.

David Hick

29/10/14 – 15:56

Forgot to mention the rare SB1 with 300 Bedford diesel engine.

David Oldfield

29/10/14 – 15:56

The Bedford dealer, Arlington, had begun offering conversions of the ‘Big Bedford’ S-type goods chassis with the Leyland O350 (5.76 litre) engine from as early as 1952. Bedford themselves began to offer a Perkins R6 (5.56 litre) diesel option in both that model and the SBO coach chassis from 1953. In 1957 Bedford introduced their own 330 (4.92 litre) diesel engine to replace the troublesome R6, resulting in the SB1. At the same time they began to offer the Leyland O350 officially as an option, resulting in the SB8. In 1961 they replaced their own 300 diesel with the increased capacity 330 (5.42 litres), resulting in the SB5. By 1962 Leyland had replaced the O350 and its larger bore equivalent the O375 (not used by Bedford) with the revised O370 (6.05 litre) and O400 (6.54 litre) units respectively. The O370 went into the SB as the SB13, and the O400 into the twin-steer VAL, and later the VAM as well as various goods models.

John Stringer

29/10/14 – 17:04

….. and of course Leyland then produced their own version of the SB13 – the Albion Victor VT41L, with the O.370. Those who ran them held them in high regard but, like many models, they were a little late on the market and only lasted about three seasons before the VAM/R192 style lightweights took over from the traditional SB style motor for independents.

David Oldfield

05/08/18 – 07:45

I have just come across the messages sent four years ago concerning Bedford coaches fitted with a Leyland engine & I would just like to vouch how good that combination was.
When Bedford deleted the option to specify a Leyland power unit in 1967/8 ie the Leyland O400 in the four wheeler VAM14 & "Chinese Six" VAL14 in favour of their own 466 engine to me it was a retrogressive step. The Bedford 466 engine was original developed for the introduction of the KM lorry in 1966. The 466 was not a bad engine, but not a patch on a Leyland unit especially VALs. With this disservice by Bedfords a good number of coach firms move onto the Leyland (& indeed Perkins) powered Bristol LH & its longer brother, the LHL.

Andrew Spriggs

07/08/18 – 06:03

Andrew. I think most people – and certainly most operators – agree that the VAL14 and VAM14, because of their 0.400 engines, were better than the VAL70 and VAM70, with the Bedford 466. The Ford R series began to catch up with Bedfords and, possibly overtake them (literally) from this time on. Bedford’s heyday was really from the OB through to the SB3.

David Oldfield

09/08/18 – 07:18

Yes I agree with you David, as the Ford R series really gave Bedford a run for their money especially with the turbo engine & six speed gearbox on Fords. In the later years of Glenway Coaches, Fords served the company well,drivers only complaints were the turbo would cut out for no reason & a sloppy gearbox (having to fish for gears). Fords would fly along on the flat on the motorway, get to a gradient & then old AEC Reliances would fly past in the middle lane leaving the modern Ford standing.
Going back to the original thread of Leyland Royal Tigers (bit before my time), the only one I recall was a 1952 model that had been rebodied in the mid 60s with a Plaxton Panorama body, my friend drove that one, he liked it apart from heavy steering & not too good brakes.

Andrew Spriggs