Photograph by ‘unknown’ if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Blue Bus Services
1962
Daimler Fleetline CRG6LX
Northern Counties H40/33F

Blue Bus Services was the operating name of Tailby & George who were located at Willington in Derbyshire.
This bus was the 54th Fleetline chassis built its sister vehicle registration 324 YNU was the first production Fleetline chassis built numbered 60003 the three chassis before were all owned by Daimler and were number 60000 a demonstrator registration 7000 HP, 60001 an experimental chassis and 60002 a demonstration chassis. Blue Bus Services actually purchased the demonstrator 7000 HP after it had done its rounds but unfortunately it and many other buses were destroyed when the Willington bus depot burnt down in 1976. 

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07/03/11 – 09:22

Yes a great loss, I have a rare ring binder bound book on Blue Bus by a small long gone concern known as Morley’s Bible and Book shop, Nottingham Rd, Ilkeston. from about 1978.

Roger Broughton

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07/03/11 – 16:09

Yes, I remember visiting the shop and knew the proprietor – John Moorley (spelt that way if I remember rightly).

Stephen Ford

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18/03/11 – 07:55

I worked for Blue Bus for 4 years as an apprentice engineer and left to go to Nottingham City Transport in 1971. It was a fantastic, varied fleet that always looked smart in the hand painted argyle blue and cream livery. Buses were properly cleaned and mopped almost daily, a standard that was probably higher than many current operators achieve nowadays.
If I can help anyone who wants to know anything about the company or their buses I will, just ask, as I was proud to work there, and it set the scene for the vehicle standards I have worked to achieve ever since as an Engineering Director.
Incidentally, my last role was the accountability for engineering and maintenance for a 70,000 bus and coach fleet in the USA and Canada, including the ubiquitous Greyhound fleet. Not bad for a Blue Bus lad from the wilds of Willington!

John Ashmore

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18/03/11 – 09:16

Big trees from little (blue) acorns grow! Perhaps you could write a potted history for the ARTICLES section – I’m sure we’d all be interested, especially in any amusing incidents.

Chris Hebbron

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19/03/11 – 07:59

I think that 325 YNU was one of 10 pre production chassis, another of which was PMT L899 which had a virtually identical low height Northern Counties body and was delivered in 1962. L899 had chassis number 60027 which seems a bit high for a pre production chassis but that was what I was told whilst at PMT.

Ian Wild

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07/05/11 – 18:43

Moorleys shop is certainly long gone but the company survives as a Print and Publishing company. I have retired but still take an interest in the business. Visit //www.moorleys.co.uk for both company history and current titles published.

John Moorley

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28/01/12 – 08:46

Hi, I wonder if someone could help me. In this thread you mention a bus with the registration 7000 HP. I have found a photo of this bus and my Mum and I believe it could be my Dad driving it. (really exiting if it is as I only have one photo of my Dad)
The bus is in a Street in Sunderland, it is the number 23, destination Roker.
I am just trying to find out what year’s this bus was on the road, and if possibly find out when it was in Sunderland, then we can see if we can match it to the years my Dad was a driver.
I hope someone can help me a little with this.
Many thanks in advance

Lorna

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28/01/12 – 17:35

Hi Lorna – well, 7000 HP was a Daimler "demonstrator" – ie one loaned to any interested operator to see if they would like to order some after a short trial. If your picture is in Sunderland it is likely to have been on loan to the Corporation for a very short spell – it was new in 1960 and was sold by Daimler in 1966 so the Sunderland loan must have been sometime in that very wide window.

Can anyone narrow it down to a closer date?

Chris Youhill

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29/01/12 – 16:46

Just to add to Chris’s comment, indeed this vehicle was a demonstrator and went to many operators and spent a considerable time with Birmingham City Transport. The picture here: //www.flickr.com/  and date in text may help further.

Nigel Edwards

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29/01/12 – 20:21

Lorna, Chris: As 7000 HP was a demonstration vehicle, and the first of Sunderland’s own Fleetlines arrived towards the end of 1962, I would suggest the photo could have been taken in 1961 or 1962.

Bob Gell

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20/02/12 – 08:54

Hi Lorna
I also have a photo of 7000 HP in Sunderland on route 23 (Thorney Close). It’s in it’s demonstration livery similar to Birmingham Corporation’s, but has Sunderland Corporation showing on the top of the near side windscreen. Unfortunately it is not dated but looks to be 1961 or 1962 as suggested. The engine bonnet cover does not look to be the extended one fitted when a wider Cummins engine was installed as a mobile test bed, so I do not think it was 1965/6, at least.

John Ashmore

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Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

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24/04/12 – 06:42

There is mention several times in these files of Geoff Hilditch. A former boss of mine (in Southampton City Council) once told me a story regarding the advent of the Dennis Dominator. My boss and Mr Hilditch had both worked for the same Council at one time and appear to have still been in contact when the Dominator entered the arena.
I’d have put this entry under the Dennis Dominator, but it doesn’t seem to appear in the menu on the right, so I’ll file it under Daimler instead.
Any readers who want something approaching the truth about how we came to have the Dominator, can find a suitable story on the "Encyclopaedia" website. There are some detail differences between what appears there and what my boss told me, but you’d expect that! Suffice to say that the Dominator was virtually a clone of the Fleetline.
Leyland, for their own reasons, didn’t want to sell Fleetlines to Mr Hilditch in the numbers he wanted to buy, and over the number of years he wanted to buy them. Leyland’s arrogance has been mentioned in these files, and it isn’t just relating to their bus production.

Pete Davies

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24/04/12 – 09:07

…..but the sad thing is that we all use Leyland as a short hand for British Leyland Motor Corporation who made the proud and historic marque a toxic name and a laughing stock. Even through the bleak years, really good vehicles were produced AN68s, Leopards and Reliances to name but three. Any problems with these were mainly as a result of BLMC ownership which starved Leyland Bus of money for R & D – and possibly quality control. [Tigers, Titans and Olympians were all delayed years because of this starvation.] We can only gasp in astonishment at the arrogance and ignorance that forced the Leyland National Mark 1 on an unsuspecting market and public – and at the expense of the Bristol RE!

David Oldfield

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24/04/12 – 16:29

Mention of the Dennis Dominator brings to mind the Dennis test bed for this model which was a former Leeds Daimler CVGLX/30 517 7517 UA Dating from 1959 and carrying a Roe body the bus was finished in a red livery and toured operators prior to production commencing.
In its new guise it was re engined and given Voith transmission and a Loline rear axle. It was eventually bought by Leicester for spares.
A fake Dominator visited 10 Downing Street as a publicity event. It was fake because it was actually an East Lancs bodied Atlantean of Brighton with a Dennis nameplate on the front! Of course South Yorks PTE had the largest fleet of Dominators in the UK with 349 buses and the solitary Dennis trolleybus which survives at Sandtoft Museum

Chris Hough

Bournemouth Corporation
1965
Daimler Fleetline
Weymann CO43/31F

As is with tradition on the south coast of England most open toppers were named, this bus was named ‘Northumbria’ which is a county in the North East of England. All the the other open toppers of the same batch were also called after counties of England, I would be most upset if there wasn’t one called ‘Yorkshire’ as registration CRU 180C was called ‘Lancashire’. If you know, let me know, please leave a comment.
It would appear that all this batch of Bournemouth open top Fleetlines except this one were sold to London Transport for sightseeing duties I wonder why not this one where did it go? If you know, let me know, please leave a comment.

"Yorkshire" was the next bus in the batch, CRU 181C.
Wasn’t this livery with the green-edged maroon band much classier than the messy blue and brown daubings on an overall yellow bus which replaced it?
But, have you noticed the absolutely miniscule fleet number just above the offside headlamp? These always looked like they’d been done in Letraset and were virtually unreadable at any distance; the previous shaded gold style might have been a bit Olde Worlde but at least they were practical.

David Jones

05/07/11 – 06:40

The names chosen by Bournemouth Corporation for the convertible Fleetlines were a curious bunch.
Bournemouth was in "Hampshire" (no 186) in those days of course, and "Dorset" (no 185) was next door. "Warwickshire" (no 182) and "Surrey" (no 189) may have been chosen in honour of the chassis- and body-builders respectively. Many of the town’s summer visitors may have come from "Staffordshire" (no 183), "Cheshire" (no 184), and possibly "Lancashire" (no 180) and "Yorkshire" (no 181), but "Northumberland" (no 188) and "Durham" (no 187) would seem to be pushing it at bit.

Michael Wadman

17/09/11 – 17:29

Mention has been made of the bright green lines outside the maroon bands on BCT buses and trolleybuses.
I remember the older brown line, best described as "dark mud brown" (that’s from memory) which had been used previously. I will try to establish when the brown was changed to green, but am not hopeful – my best guess is around 1960 as I seem to remember that the first MF2B trolleybuses had the brown lining when new, although it might have been earlier when the wartime brown roofs were repainted yellow.
The open-toppers (in fact convertibles with removable fibreglass roofs) were Bournemouth 180 to 189 CRU180C to CRU189C, and became London DMO class as follows:
182 – DMO1 Stockwell Princess
183 – DMO2 Southern Queen
184 – DMO3 Britannia
185 – DMO4
186 – DMO5
187 – DMO6
189 – DMO7
I will try to find out what happened to the ones that did not go to London.

Bill Nichols

21/11/11 – 09:22

I’m a 40 year old bus enthusiast lifelong resident to Bournemouth. Regards the fate of 180, 181 and 188, obviously CRU180C was preserved in the collection of the Bournemouth Passenger Transport Association 181 and 188 were withdrawn from service in Bournemouth circa spring 1979 and exported to Hong Kong (Source: Transbourne News, circular of BPTA, March 1986)
Obviously I have no idea whether 181 and 188 still exist I somehow doubt it, sadly!

Patrick O’Connor

11/12/11 – 07:05

Just to confirm that 181 and 188 no longer exist. According to PSV Circle fleet history on Hong Kong operators, they entered service with Citybus Ltd in 1979; they were among the very first vehicles acquired by Citybus, along with similar, but closed top ex Bournemouth Fleetlines 190-3. By 1984, all six were in use as open toppers on tourist work. They were all withdrawn and scrapped in 1986 (181/8/90/2/3) or 1987 (191).
Of those that went to London, 184 subsequently operated for many years for Guide Friday, mainly in Stratford on Avon. Does anyone know if this survives in preservation?

Bob Gell

11/12/11 – 16:06

I have a feeling, Bob, that 184 went to Ensign Bus when they took over Guide Friday and is in store with them. That was the position a few months ago, anyway.

Chris Hebbron

23/02/12 – 12:41

The similarities to the Alexander bodied Fleetlines and Atlanteans we had at Northern General are remarkable, the front panel and windscreen would appear to be to be identical, so who copied who, or was one built under licence to the other?

Ronnie Hoye

23/02/12 – 14:00

Both Newcastle and Leeds had batches of identical bodies on Atlantean chassis. However the Newcastle ones did not have engine bustles and neither operators bought open top versions! I think it may have been Newcastle who were the first customers for this design as it was very similar to their Alexander bodied examples.

Chris Hough

24/02/12 – 07:08

Chris. Newcastle did have two open top Atlanteans, but they were the result of accident damage, both had been involved in arguments with bridges and unsurprisingly in both cases the bridge won. One of them went to Percy Main depot and was used on a Sea Front service operated by Northern on behalf of what was by that time the Tyne and Wear PTE, I think the other vehicle went south of the river and ran from South Shields to Sunderland. I seem to remember that in for the Queens silver Jubilee in 1977 one, or possible both of them were painted silver and had either the Royal Coat of Arms or a Crown on them.

Ronnie Hoye

25/02/12 – 07:25

The answer to "who copied who" is that Weymann optionally put the Alexander front end on to their standard body. Roe did something similar with windscreens but not the dash panel (see www.sct61.org.uk/gy57 ). But whether anyone paid Alexander for the privilege I wouldn’t know.

Peter Williamson

25/02/12 – 08:56

…..but it’s always been the case. East Lancs had their R type clone, but the earliest Alexanders were Leyland (Ribble) and Weymann (Glasgow – and Liverpool?) bodies built under licence. The Leyland Royal Tiger Alexander coach had more than awhiff of the Leyland as well.

David Oldfield

26/04/12 – 06:22

Four of this batch of Fleetlines certainly survived until 2011 – and hopefully still do. 180 and fixed top 197 ex-B’mth Museum are now at the West of England Transport Museum, 187 is in private preservation nr. Southampton and 184 is with Ensign bus. The detachable roofs actually combined the same amount of metal and glass-fibre as the permanent version – only 180 still has one.
The first MCW bodies to this style for Bournemouth were built on Atlantean chassis in 1964 (170 survives), the last on similar chassis in 1966 (none remain). Very similar MCW Alexander lookalike bodies were delivered to Newcastle, Leeds and BOAC.
It was the inability of MCW to build a further Bournemouth batch in 1968 that led to the genuine Alexander product finally arriving in 1969. Happily the resultant delay allowed the trolleybuses several months stay of execution! The relationship with Alexander then continued for over one hundred buses until 1990!
The lining issue is simpler than it seems, a dark olive green was used between yellow and maroon from the first trams until 1962 when it was replaced by lighter shade ‘Buckingham’ green. The first vehicles so painted were the last nine Sunbeam trolleybuses. Future repaints used this colour green although the old scheme could be seen until 1969 – lastly on trolleybus No.280.
The description of muddybrown arises because the varnish used in those days to finish off the brush applied paintwork would tend to yellow badly, combining with the olive green to become chocolate in colour – the maroon discolouring to dark chocolate and the yellow oddly brightening with age! The lighter green seemed to escape this process.

mf2b

17/07/13 – 07:00

I can clearly recollect a lengthy article, complete with photographs, in the Bournemouth Evening Echo when these buses were introduced. It mentioned the novel concept of the detachable roofs and the fact that the buses would be in the general-use fleet during the winter months. I wish I still had the clipping!
It no doubt survives in the ‘Echo’ archives. The general travelling public would have been probably unaware that they were travelling on a ‘convertible’ in the winter, but the names were a giveaway as the rest of the fleet did not carry any.

Grahame Arnold

04/08/13 – 14:56

I took a few shots on the 29-03-1975 to record the passing of the traditional Bournemouth livery with the 2 red/green bands. Already by this time the rot was setting in, with adverts on the exteriors and the traditional Bournemouth large yellow bus stop signs being replaced with ‘standard’ ones. However, note that the driver is still smartly turned-out, even on a Sunday! AEL177B was one of the 1964 batch from Leyland with Alexander bodywork. They were comfortable buses, but noisier than the ‘CRU’ Fleetlines which followed in 1965.

Grahame Arnold

28/03/15 – 14:33

I know the messages have gone quiet on this. But just on the off-chance that someone reads this that knows the current owners. I’d like to speak to them. This summer these attractive and well designed, comfortable vehicles are/would have been 50 years old. CRU 180C was delivered new on 29/6/65 and 188 on 3/8/65. It would be great if someone knew if one was still roadworthy as I’d like to have a ride on it again?

Geoff Clarke

06/05/15 – 07:17

Geoff, 3 of these survive for sure they are 180, 187 and my 184. E-mail me through this site I can explain further.

Nick Jackson

06/07/15 – 06:36

Buses Magazine September 1983 Issue Page 410
DMO 2 and DMO 5 (CRU 183/6C) exported to California by Ensignbus

David Rawsthorn

20/03/17 – 13:55

As an update, my Bear Cross Bus Company now owns 187 as well as 184. 187 now has a current MOT and it’s due to be repainted at the end of April. All being well it will make an appearance at the Bournemouth Bus Rally in June. Unfortunately it won’t be fully restored though.
On the subject of painting, could "mf2b" please advise me what shade the crimson/maroon band should be? I have two thoughts on the subject but can’t decide what the post-1962 lighter shade should be and have nothing to compare against. Thanks.

Nick Jackson

21/03/17 – 06:16

Tim Salter had made quite a lot of progress recently but it’s been a mammoth task to restore it. I believe it might see some new paint this summer but don’t quote me on that!

Nick Jackson

21/03/17 – 08:43

Nick
Martyn Hearson at Reliance Bus Works has a history of painting Bournemouth vehicles both for himself and Daniel Shears – he may know.

Roger Burdett

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

18/04/17 – 07:40

I know Martyn and his excellent standard of workmanship. Tim Salter will be painting FEL216 himself, as he retires this summer and will have more time for the project.

Nick Jackson