Copyright Ian Wild

Mansfield District Traction Company Limited
1954
Bristol Lodekka LD6G
ECW H33/25R

I always liked the Bristol Lodekka with the original long grille-thought it gave the bus a more purposeful appearance. A chance visit to Mansfield in August 1968 found this example which appeared to be in excellent condition for its age.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

29/06/11 – 13:03

In 1969 several of these early Mansfield Lodekkas moved north to West Riding to enable the ill fated Wulfrunians to be withdrawn They entered service in Mansfield green and were quickly joined by others from Midland General and Lincs. Later some twenty plus almost new FLFs came from Bristol to complete the exercise

Chris Hough

29/06/11 – 14:44

Ah! delight in Mansfield, one of my favourite places. Firstly I agree with Ian about the long grille Lodekka, I’ve always thought the same. Secondly, this is particularly interesting because it was Mansfield District’s first Lodekka, new in 1954, platform doors fitted in 1957. I’ve always tended to think of Mansfield District as a sort of Mansfield Corporation, with its history of tramway operation and lots of high frequency short distance services, a very good example of which was the 102 as shown. In 1964, the Saturday service was; first bus 4.40am then every 10mins until 9am then every 5mins until 6.20pm then every 10mins until 11pm (last) and this wasn’t the only service between Mansfield and Pleasley, a timetable wasn’t really necessary! I find it a little odd that this bus isn’t sporting a full blind display, Mansfield District, Midland General and Notts and Derby were normally very fastidious about such things and their inspectors would ‘have a word’ with the conductor if the blinds weren’t displayed perfectly! The correct display in the via box for the 102 would have been MANSFIELD CENTRE, CHESTERFIELD ROAD, PLEASLEY (some journeys carried on to New Houghton)
As Chris H rightly says, some of these vehicles were transferred to West Riding as Wulfrunian replacements and were apparently considered to be amongst the better ones so transferred, not surprising considering MDT/MGO’s excellent maintenance standards. Also unusual is that this vehicle carries no adverts of any sort and I think looks much better for it!

Chris Barker

30/06/11 – 05:29

I too much preferred the long radiator and the traditional Bristol shape of it to the later version, which always gave me the annoying impression of having been in a lower end collision and being amateurishly repaired by "chopping off the damaged bit and putting in a new straight lower shape." I also have an aversion, on all buses, to front square number plates with two rows of three characters – the normal long number plate with all characters in one line looks far tidier at the front and, in many cases, even at the back also.

Chris Youhill

30/06/11 – 05:35

This vehicle’s sister, RAL 976, did some sightseeing work here in Halifax, Nova Scotia in the early seventies, alongside an ex London RT, and at the time made a fine sight in its green livery, I think it had been with West Riding before export to Canada. It moved on years ago, to destination unknown, and I suppose it presumably could still exist, but more than likely has succumbed to the scrapman’s hammer by now.

Dave Careless

30/06/11 – 16:07

I am not at all surprised to observe the superb condition which the Mansfield Lodekka demonstrates! Ignoring any design preferences of individual enthusiasts, I struggle to define any ECW bodied vehicle as being "worn". Most would seem to be capable of completing a 40 year life cycle.
Undoubtedly the finest exponents of bus building which ever existed, the quality and innovation of which was, in my humble opinion, totally unmatched. It is to be greatly regretted that this wonderful company was allowed to disintegrate!
ECW bodies never failed to exude total quality, their obsolescence being defined simply in terms of "fashion".
I have no "axe to grind", and enjoy, as an enthusiast, other products than those from Lowestoft, but wonder if former professionals from within the industry are able to destroy this "illusion" of mine?

John Whitaker

01/07/11 – 05:19

Although I cannot fault the general impression of these vehicles, I was never that keen on the ‘hump’ below the driver’s cab, giving to me, at least, the impression that it had had a front-end shunt and was yet to be repaired!
AS Chris B says, the absence of adverts greatly enhances its looks. Were that they’d all been like this!

Chris Hebbron

25/07/11 – 21:01

The Photo of RAL 974 is not standing on the 102 Rank and as a driver for MDT I am suggesting that the vehicle will be driven round to Queen Street to duplicate the service 102 bus to Pleasley hence the via blind is left empty.

John Hellewell

I have put this comment on exact as I got it, I did not get the next to last word but had a good laugh when the penny dropped well done Mr A Non

15/08/11 – 13:01

old5oo thank you 44 sinse i drove her the fleet numbers500to 532 all back rsenders niceone

A Non

16/09/14 – 07:44

I used to be a driver for Mansfield District from 1968 and my father did fifty years for Mansfield it takes me back. I still am in the bus industry I’m a supervisor for West Coast Motors on the west coast of Scotland it was a good time at MDT. I was at Midland Travel as well.

Colin Steele

16/09/14 – 09:54

"ECW bodies never failed to exude total quality…"
Not quite, John. The B51 coach body was an absolute aesthetic and structural abomination, utilising large areas of unsupported glass fibre that simply collapsed in service. All the fittings were flimsy and the luggage boots leaked rainwater and road dirt. It was produced under the directives of the Stokes ‘led’ Leyland empire and so bad was it that it must have hastened the ultimate demise of ECW.

Roger Cox

16/09/14 – 12:08

Yes, but I think that it’s a given that any Stokes era history is a period not to savour and that John was thinking of "real" ECW in the same way that I differentiate between Leyland and British Leyland. You are absolutely right that the B51 was an abomination but its failings revolve around British Leyland trying to slap a body literally designed around a rear engined vehicle (the Bristol RELH) onto mid-engined designs without any thought to structural integrity. [Even the earlier, purer, versions on Leopards for SELNEC/GMT suffered similar problems but they were too embarrassed to mention it at the time.] Sadly, at the same time as the B51, Willowbrook offered its own abomination, the 003. Duple were not much better either and, as we all know, Plaxton eventually joined the slide into mediocrity or worse.

David Oldfield

17/09/14 – 07:13

I seem to recall that United took some Leopards with the plasticky B51 bodies for National Express work. The chassis did not have sufficient fixings to cater for the enormous boots required, worked themselves loose and at least one fell off, strewing luggage all over the motorway.

Chris Hebbron

19/09/14 – 07:03

None at all Chris. It was an unsupported boot. Originally the body was (semi) integral with the RE frame – and thus very rigid and strong. Here began its troubles.

David Oldfield

20/09/14 – 05:57

I wonder who dominated here, David O, engineers or accountants!

Chris Hebbron

20/09/14 – 09:27

No brainer Chris. Got to be accountants. Whenever there’s a choice between experts/professionals and accountants the outcome is chaos – just have a closer look at the accountants. You don’t have to look too far to see who is at fault.

David Oldfield

05/10/15 – 07:07

I’ve finally dug out my photo of RAL 974 taken in Newark in 1961, at which time it was wearing advertisements.

Roger Cox

06/10/15 – 07:11

Thanks Roger, for that wonderful photo, Mansfield District had several services between Mansfield and Newark but the principal ones were the 208/209 which combined to provide an hourly headway (even on Sundays) between the two towns by slightly different routes. On Saturdays the frequency was doubled up to half hourly for most of the day.
Although Newark had a bus station, for some reason all the MDT services at that time terminated at Northgate railway station which can be seen in the background. They did move into the bus station in later years.

Chris Barker

07/10/15 – 06:59

Here is a slightly more modern Mansfield District vehicle – but still in the traditional livery – a Bristol VRT/ECW Series 1, seen in Newark Bus Station about to return to Nottingham via the 209 route in 1971.

John Stringer

07/10/15 – 15:52

Slip of the fingers there John? It says "Mansfield" on the blind! Nottingham was the 215. The fundamental difference between the 208 (via Blidworth, Southwell, Upton – as shown on the Lodekka) and the 209 was that the latter ran via Rolleston and Fiskerton between Newark and Southwell. I fancy it was meant to substitute for the train following closure of the Rolleston Junction – Southwell branch line.

Stephen Ford

United Automobile Services
1962
Bristol Lodekka FS6B
ECW H33/27R

This photo was taken in the middle of July 1966 and is the Scarborough North Bay ‘Corner Cafe’ terminus of several routes. This photo apart from being a nearly decent shot of a ‘Short Lodekka’ is a flash back to when an English seaside resort had every thing going for it, doesn’t it look busy. I do like the Ford Anglia on the roundabout.
In the mornings on the way to our chalet (No 99) I used to buy a pound of pea pods from the fruit and veg shop at the other side of the road from this bus stop and boy did they taste good, nice and sweet, and in the evening on the way back to the our B&B I would have a waffle with cream and raspberry jam from the waffle shop around the corner from this view, those were the days. (Sorry about the over long sentence but got carried away in nostalgia).

A full list of Bristol codes can be seen here.

A full list of United codes can be seen here.

The Bristol FS in the picture is one of a small batch of five delivered in February and March 1962 for use on Scarborough town services only. The FS was a very rare beast in United colours – there were only seven in the entire fleet of around 1,200 buses. The Scarborough vehicles were also unusual – in an age of power-operated jacknife doors and front entrances – in having open rear platforms. I believe an agreement with Scarborough Town Council ensured the buses never strayed from the resort right up until their withdrawal some 14 years later. I also believe the vehicles operated mainly in the summer season and were garaged for half the year, so they must have had fairly low mileages. For this reason, it’s a shame one never made it to preservation. I understand they all disappeared at the end of the 1976 summer season although one example may have stayed on as a driver-trainer until as late as 1978.”

“If anyone has any more information about these buses, or any more pictures, I would be very interested!!!

Dorsetcol

I remember the other two Bristol Lodekka FS6Bs L55/56 both these had rear doors from new I think, they operated out of Darlington on the Stockton 21 or Hartlepool 24 service. The Bishop Auckland route was the preserve of the first Bristol Lodekka LD6Bs L1-5. L56 went to West Yorkshire in exchange for a front entrance model which united was by then operating.

Paul Fraser

When West Yorkshire and United did their swap the ex United bus took the FSFs number in the West Yorkshire fleet DX82. I may be wrong but I think West Yorkshire were the only BTSC fleet to end up with a wholly rear entrance double deck fleet until the advent of the VR in 1969.

Chris Hough

From when I first glimpsed West Yorkshire’s FSF6B DX82 in Bingley as a child, it always remained one of my favourite buses in the fleet. I had never seen a front-entrance double-decker before, so this was something special. Imagine the dismay when WY exchanged it for an ‘ordinary’ FS6B in 1967! Interestingly, the FSF lost its ‘T’ style destination layout on transfer to United for one of their side by side destination/route number display. Unusually, the ex-United FS retained its full three-aperture display after overhaul by West Yorkshire, rather than being converted to ‘T’ type layout. In later years the FS had the intermediate part of its destination display overpainted red. Such a quick fix seemed very un-West Yorkshirelike at the time!
Apart from West Yorkshire, I seem to recall that Red & White was the only other BTC/THC company to operate solely rear-entrance Lodekkas. However, whereas West Yorkshire became so once their solitary FSF had been exchanged, Red & White had only rear entrance Lodekkas from the outset, including a batch of rare 30ft FL Lodekkas.

Brendan Smith

Brendan I remember while on holiday in Bournemouth in the 1960s being very impressed indeed by the small batch of Hants & Dorset 30 foot rear entrance Lodekkas. Just momentarily they at first looked odd but quickly the superb lines began to appeal greatly. If there was any criticism of the standard short Lodekka, and I struggle to think of any, it was they had a slight "chunky" appearance from the side.

Chris Youhill

11/02/11 – 06:54

I remember the Lodekkas in York as the main stay of the York West Yorkshire fleet when I was a kid in the 60s and early 70s.

Jim Plant

07/11/11 – 07:49

I lived on Bradford Road, Riddlesden, when DX82 arrived on the scene in 1960, based in Leeds and operating route 31 to Keighley. Sometimes when I took a trip to Bingley, I would wait for it, having seen it heading into Keighley 20 minutes earlier. I was not impressed with the design, since it provided no more seats than an LD or FS and had cramped accommodation for the conductor. Apparently, Company management thought the same.
I was delivering evening papers nearby in 1961 when DX82 was rammed from behind at the Airedale Heifer stop by DX67 on the X67 Bradford-Keighley Limited Stop express. Damage was quite extensive, and two passengers were trapped in the lower deck rear seats, which wouldn’t have happened on any other WY double-decker! I bicycled home to get my camera, but I have no idea what happened to the photo I took. The Company was fined for having defective brakes on DX67.

Martin S

18/12/12 – 07:58

Good website, filled me with nostalgia. Remember when I’d walk the dog in Hartlepool and down at the bus station/depot there was a big sign on the wall, United a National Bus Company. I’d get Explorer tickets, managed as far north as Berwick, south as Bridlington [although it was an East Yorkshire in one direction] and west as Carlisle on United [with the odd Northern thrown in on joint runs].

Kevan Hubbard

18/12/12 – 10:11

The ex United Lodekka 456 LHN, which as mentioned above became DX 82 when it arrived with West Yorkshire, it was for a while after October 1967 allocated to the Otley depot taken over from Samuel Ledgard. Just one of those fascinating coincidences but thereafter it could often be seen on service 34 Leeds – Otley – Ilkley, the frequent hunting ground previously of the "real" DX 82 before it moved North east.

Chris Youhill

22/12/14 – 09:31

Am I right in thinking, what I have read, that the Lodekkas West Yorkshire got were FS code, and West Yorkshire got them they coded them as DX.

Stephen

22/12/14 – 12:31

Stephen, West Yorkshire operated LD and FS-type Lodekkas. The letters were Bristol chassis designations denoting (LD) Lowheight Double-decker and (FS) Flat-floor Standard length chassis. The West Yorkshire code you refer to relates to the alpha-numeric fleetnumbering system used by WY between 1954 and 1971, which used classification letters followed by numbers. For example ‘DB’ indicated Double-deck, Bristol engine; ‘SGL’ Single-deck, Gardner engine, Long chassis; ‘CUG’ Coach, Underfloor Gardner engine etc. Where the ‘DX’ classification came in relates to West Yorkshire taking delivery of Bristol’s second Lodekka prototype in 1950, (chassis number LDX002) – Bristol Tramways & Carriage Co having taken the first one in 1949. West Yorkshire numbered its vehicle 822, but in the 1954 renumbering scheme it became DX1 (Double-deck eXperimental). The next Lodekka to arrive was a pre-production prototype and this became DX2. From then on ‘DX’ became the classification for all future WY Lodekkas. West Yorkshire operated 238 Lodekkas (or should that be 239 if you count the TWO DX82s?), all but three having Bristol engines. The trio that ‘broke ranks’ had Gardner engines, these being DX3/4 and 48. DX3/4 were delivered new in 1954 with 6LW units, whereas DX48 originally entered service in 1956 with a Bristol AVW engine, but was converted to Gardner 6LX power in 1958/59. Interestingly, in 1956 DX3 was fitted experimentally with a Shorrocks-supercharged Gardner 5LW engine, but was converted back to 6LW engine some six months later. Despite their Gardner engines, the trio were not classified as DXG as might have been expected, but remained inobtrusively as simply ‘DX’ bless ’em.

Brendan Smith

Notts and Derby
1964
Bristol Lodekka FLF6G
ECW H38/32F

Yet another photo where I can not remember where I was when I took it same as the previous W Gash photo I presume, any clues anybody?
I do have quite a few photos of Nottingham City Transport yet to come so probable a club trip down that way. The photo doesn’t show it too well but bus is in a very dark green and cream.

Its Mount Street bus station in Nottingham. The buildings in the background are part of the old General Hospital. The bus livery is actually Dark Blue and Cream, the same as Midland General.

Patch

Thanks for that its nice to know where I have been. I am in two minds to change the shot to a black and white as it is very bad colour wise if that is supposed to be Blue, it was Ilford film should of stuck to Agfa perhaps.

Peter

My memory is probably faulty but I remember travelling on a light blue regal on Midland General’s E4 route and lighting in Crich village where I was to spend the weekend at the tramway museum.

I think that MG delighted us enthusiasts by the fact that it bucked corporate dictate from Tilling HQ by not having a Tilling red/green livery.

As I recall Midland General had a light blue livery.
It had two subsidiary companies Notts & Derby, including the trolley buses that came to Bradford, wore a dark blue livery whilst Mansfield and District wore non-tilling green. In due course al three fleets assumed NBC leaf green.

Don’t be too worried about the colour on the image. It is still a wonderfully evocative image

Charles

I think this very dark blue was a latter-day variation. The original was not actually "light" blue, but a very nice, almost royal blue. I think it was actually the same for both MGO and NDT. Have a look here //www.busslides.co.uk/search_bus_pictures_east_midlands.php (and scroll down) for a few examples.

Stephen Ford

Memory plays tricks doesn’t it, had I already said that?, but wasn’t the blue featured on the dual purpose vehicles (in reverse livery) a darker shade than the blue used on the service buses?
Nice photo by the way, very handsome vehicle

Andrew

Andrew, yes it certainly was – in fact it was so dark as to be almost, or perhaps actually, black – but only in the later years. The classic (bus) livery was, to my mind, "real blue". It was an honest to goodness full-bodied shade, and I judged all others (harshly!) by it, including the "washed out" blue that Cambus later used, and the ghastly fading "rail blue" that British Rail slopped all over everything in sight.

Stephen Ford

The blue used from pre war was Williamsons Azure Blue and Tilling cream. Earlier the vehicles carried a lighter blue relief. National bus days meant a change from the cream to white and more blue and so this looked a lot darker but all my investigation would suggest that this was indeed the same colour – it’s always a talking point at rallies between myself and other owners of ex MGO vehicles!
I have been involved with several preservation projects all being finished in this colour.
Hope this clears things up a bit.

Paul D Chambers

Used to use the old Notts & Derbys buses to Ilkeston and Cotmanhay 1969 & 70

Mickey Summers

02/05/12 – 17:19

I too can confirm that MGO and Notts & Derby Traction wore the same livery, at least post-war. I knew it was an Azure blue, was Williamsons Azure blue a reference to the one time general manager? Did he in fact choose the colours?
I have mixed feelings of Mount St bus station. The mix of MGO, NDT, Barton and Trent buses was exciting to me as a child, but I also suffered from travel sickness, so by the time we arrived there from Langley Mill I was feeling quite queasy.
Returning to the subject of the blue paint, I remember at one time my parents having a bathroom in MGO cream and a bedroom window in MGO blue. These things could happen when you lived near a bus depot.

Brian Yeomans

03/05/12 – 07:56

And when my mother and I moved from Surrey to Southsea, the house was almost battleship grey throughout, inside and out. It wasn’t long before a neighbour told us that the previous occupant worked in Portsmouth Dockyard and the guy was known in the street a Paintbrush Brill! When I got around to demolishing the ancient shed, it had been made from sailors’ packing cases, still bearing their names, ranks and numbers!

Chris Hebbron

03/05/12 – 09:02

I worked for the railway workshops in Derby, and certain senior managers were believed to have made a little freely with, shall we call them, "surplus materials" and "rail blue" colour schemes were not unknown. (Why anyone should have so little taste as to want their house painted that colour I do not know – now MGO blue, that’s a different matter!) Of one such manager I heard the comment that "It’s fortunate xxxx lives nowhere near the railway – If a train passed by and whistled the house would get up and follow it!"
As for Williamson, I seem to remember this was a fairly well-known industrial paint manufacturer.

Stephen Ford

03/05/12 – 14:09

I fear I may have mentioned this before but when we lived in Brislington, Bristol, our neighbour worked for Bristol Commercial Works and around 1957/8 brought home a "spare" 5 gallon drum of silver chassis paint which he then applied to the stonework of his house. It is still clearly visible to this day although I doubt the owners have quite worked out why their house has a fair amount of silvery flakes in the natural stone facings!

Richard Leaman

04/05/12 – 07:30

An NBC paint shop foreman once told me that all ‘leftovers’ of paint in tins used to be mixed together, this produced a sort of muddy plum colour which was used to paint under stairs, wheelarches, inside luggage boots etc. When the NBC issued it’s corporate identity diktat, it was ordered that a grey colour must be purchased and used for those areas (and indeed wheel centres) After that, all leftovers were thrown away. So much for the economies of a national organisation!

Chris Barker

04/05/12 – 14:41

No surprise there, Chris B!

Chris Hebbron

05/05/12 – 16:44

Williamsons are still in business from their Ripon Headquarters. They have supplied various colours of British Railways paint for projects underway at the Vintage Railway Carriages Trust Museum at Ingrow on the Worth Valley Railway. The quality of the paint is excellent – it is a pleasure to work with.

Ian Wild

05/05/12 – 16:46

You are right Stephen, T & R Williamson did, and still does, manufacture specialist paints and varnishes for the transport and industrial sectors. They are based up here in North Yorkshire, in the historic city of Ripon. Williamson’s were well known in the bus and railway world for their coach enamels and varnishes, which had a reputation for quality and durability. They have since kept pace with the modern demand for two-pack paint applications and the like, and the firm is well over two hundred years old. The original Williamson’s building greets visitors and travellers as they approach the city from the south on the A61.

Brendan Smith

08/02/13 – 06:15

Hi I remember this bus as I used to drive it from Riply to Nottingham Mount Street on routes b1 b2 c6 f1 f5 in fact it was a pain to drive very heavy steering but fond memory’s

Geoff Conway