Provincial (Gosport & Fareham Omnibus Co)
1943
AEC Regal I/Regent I
Reading H??/??R

Doubt exists about the vehicle chassis type, but here is the story as of now.
In 1943, Mr Orme-White carried out his first (of many) vehicle re-constructions, involving an AEC Regal I (although recent research suggests it was a Regent I chassis), purchased from the War Department with the registration DK 7791. The original source of the chassis is unknown.
Provincial re-conditioned the chassis, fitted a 7.7 litre AEC engine and got Reading’s of Portsmouth to body it. It was their first double deck offering, of utility specification and painted wartime grey. It was also re-registered EHO 282 and numbered 15.
In 1952, it was rebuilt again by Reading and lasted in service until 1959. Its body was then donated to number 12 (FHO 604) and the chassis scrapped.
What is interesting is that a small and almost unknown bodybuilder was given permission to build an austerity body and it might well have been its sole effort. The year of build was after the initial austerity bodies had been built on ‘unfrozen’ chassis, but before full-scale austerity bodybuilding had got underway. Did Reading come up with its own design or use someone else’s austerity plans? If the latter, the question is whose does it resemble?

Photograph Reading Coachworks (from the website below).
Copy contributed by Chris Hebbron using material by Ray Tull and
Stewart Brett from the website //www.regent8.co.uk/regents.htm

———

08/09/11 – 14:27

What clue is there in the fuel pump on the bulkhead?

Joe

———

08/09/11 – 14:28

Probably of no significance at all, but the next registration to the original donor vehicle, DK 7792, was a Regal supplied to Yelloway in 1932.

Stephen Ford

———

08/09/11 – 14:29

The DK registration on the chassis was a Rochdale area plate.

Roger Broughton

———

08/09/11 – 14:30

Looks like a semi-floating hub at the back, so can’t be later than 1932. And what a well-proportioned body!

Ian Thompson

———

I lived in the Gosport area as a child from 1949 to 1952, and well remember the Provincial (Gosport & Fareham) Regents. These initially puzzled me as their sound was so unlike the London Transport AECs that I recalled as a very small boy from 1946, when I lived in Selsdon, Croydon. I personally much preferred the Guy/Park Royal bodied Guy Arab IIIs that served the Alverstoke and Haslar Route 11 on which I lived, and the Arab III is still one of my favourite bus types.
It is now thought that EHO 282 was a Regent. The Regal had a longer wheelbase than the double deck chassis. The photo indicates that the proportions of the bus are in keeping with those of a Regent, whereas a double deck body on a Regal would have necessitated a short length behind the rear axle to keep within the 26ft overall length limit of the time.

Roger Cox

———

10/09/11 – 07:42

One thing I didn’t mention originally was the bespoke double destination blind boxes, a Provincial’ feature, even then. All extra work in austerity times.
And are they safety rails high up on the upper-deck front windows? They don’t look like vents or the like.
It looks as if there’s a Regal/Regent badge on the radiator grill itself – pity it’s illegible.
Thx for the additional comments which have shed some more light on this intriguing bus.
And I think most of us echo Roger’s comment about proportion – austerity bus bodies have a charm of their own.

Chris Hebbron

———

10/09/11 – 07:43

And Roger could that also be the explanation as to why the Leon Lion had a centre entrance utility body fitted?

Chris Barker

———

11/09/11 – 08:18

I think that you have hit on the answer about the Leon Lion, Chris. Photos can be a bit misleading sometimes, but the picture of the Lion does seem to show that the rear wheel is located directly under the rearmost but one window on this five bay body. The centre bay is decidedly wider than the rest, so that all the other bays are obviously of pretty short length, and the rear axle seems to be located well to the rear of the bus. A centre or front entrance would have been the best solution in the circumstances.

Roger Cox

———

17/04/12 – 14:18

The original post mentions Mr Orme-White. I’ve no idea how true it is, but I have been told that Mr White of the Provincial Tramways group (Gosport and Fareham, Portsdown & Horndean among others) was the same Mr White of White’s Removals, and this is the reason behind the removal company’s "sponsorship" of some trams under restoration in the Portsmouth area.

Pete Davies

———

11/07/12 – 18:39

I contacted White & Co. (Removals) of Portsmouth, Pete, and, after a period of silence, while the family tree was being consulted, they’ve advised me that there seems to be no connexion between H Orme-White and their family.

Chris Hebbron

———

12/07/12 – 19:29

Now there`s a name to savour! This was a fleet just made for enthusiasts, and my early experiences of being a bus enthusiast are saturated with the delights of this wonderful fleet. I am just amazed that it does not enter these columns on a more regular basis. I remember they had an AEC "Mandator" petrol tanker rebodied as a bus, and have often been tempted to join the Provincial Society, but one cannot be "in everything"
Mention of Mr Orme White reminds me that the family were connected with the Imperial Tramways group, who had interests in Grimsby, Middlesbrough, and , pre Sir Clifton Robinson, with one of my favourite tram fleets, the London United! I think they also had connections with the ill-fated Mid Yorkshire Tramways too.
Lets have more Provincial content, and, in the meantime, may I recommend those who are able, to make the journey to Crich, where LUT No.159 is about to be unveiled after a beautiful restoration to its pre-Underground Group condition. As a TMS member, I do have an axe to grind, but it really is a wonderful expression of the art of vintage vehicle restoration, under the professional care of the TMS staff, and the "LCC Tramways Trust".
Sorry to go all "trammy"….it won`t happen again!

John Whitaker

———

John W is right to applaud the Orme-White family and their link with some great companies such as London United Tramways and the Provincial Tramways Group.
I believe the Gosport & Fareham Bus Company running under the name Provincial started in 1929 and replaced the trams. By 1936 they had bought several AEC Regents with Park Royal bodies. Some of these buses were still running in 1963 when I visited Gosport. I rode on one of these buses and this experience was magic, as the sound from the AEC crash gearbox was something never to be forgotten. The Provincial Company had some very interesting buses and hopefully someone has some photos to post on this web site.

Richard Fieldhouse

———

14/07/12 – 07:48

I probably feel about LUT’s ‘Diddlers’ the way John W feels about LUT’s trams. YouTube has a couple of short films about ‘Diddlers’ on their inauguration day in May 1931, but there are several antiquated (albeit covered-top) LUT trams putting in an appearance, too. It’s wonderful to see that long-gone world, 88 years ago. Little traffic, an open-top NS bus, steam roller, conductor punching tickets, driver’s white summer coat, evocative soundtrack…I feel the eyes watering now! Enjoy HERE: www.youtube.com

Chris Hebbron

———

14/07/12 – 10:56

I too, Chris, am captivated by that era of summer coats for drivers, with the odd steam roller about! I don`t quite remember it, but it is of extra fascination because it is close, but not quite akin to our earliest memories. I have always been fascinated by history, especially from the early 19C., when I like to imagine myself involved at the time of my (other hobby) family history characters!
I regard the Diddlers as part of the LUT story, and, as such, they have an appeal of their own. I do not think they were particularly attractive vehicles, but that is of no consequence; they were very much an "in house" product of the Underground Group, built "in house" by UCC, and were not intended, design wise, to appeal to the general transport "market", but more intended to resemble the "Feltham" trams.
This whole period of tram to trolleybus conversion, and the early days of London Transport provides enough material for years and years of OBP correspondence!
I should have mentioned earlier, that the White family, George White in LUT days, were also involved in the early days of Bristol Tramways, which had Imperial Group connections too.

John Whitaker

———

14/07/12 – 18:04

I shall look forward to seeing LUT’s 159 at my next visit to Crich, John. It must have been a huge task to recreate all that top deck ‘cast-iron’ alone. At the other end of the spectrum, I have a soft spot for Feltham MET 331, looking much sleeker and stylish than its mainstream cousins.
I hold no special brief for London Transport, but what it achieved from its 1933 creation to 1940 was amazing….with sliderules, but without computers!

Chris Hebbron

Margo’s of Thornton Heath
1937
AEC Regal I
Harrington  C33F

This picture, taken in 1960 or 1961, shows an AEC Regal of either late pre-war or early post-war vintage – the mechanical specification was virtually identical – with a straight stepped waistrail body of unknown (to me) manufacture. I would suspect that the chassis is of the usual 7.7/crash gearbox variety, but the front wing treatment is not of standard AEC pattern of the period. The number CPK 168 is a Surrey registration, and, when photographed, the coach was being operated by the once well known (certainly to the Traffic Commissioners!) firm of Margo’s of Thornton Heath, in whose Zion Place premises it is seen. Can our Forum experts supply more information?

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

---

29/08/11 – 08:00

Gut reaction – a pre war Harrington. Those odd flat plates in front of the wings I suspect is an operator addition.

David Oldfield

---

29/08/11 – 08:01

An observation… do you notice how the lack of a canopy gives you nowhere to put the wing mirror- it is, I imagine, that tiny thing on the wing…

Joe

---

29/08/11 – 08:02

The bodywork I am certain is by Harrington. It bears a very strong resemblance to some supplied to North Western on Leyland Tigers in the 1934-1937 period. Some of these were rebodied by Windover in 1950 and now I’m wondering if any of the original bodies were sold on for further use. Pure speculation of course, I don’t even know if this vehicle has its original body or not but although the mouldings are slightly different at the rear from the North Western ones, it is a faint possibility. The front wing treatment is obviously nothing to do with AEC, but an attempt to give a more up to date look, in fact, if the vertical part wasn’t so deep, it could almost be mistaken for a Regal III!

Chris Barker

---

29/08/11 – 11:07

Having had relations in nearby Streatham I have many vivid memories of seeing the Margo’s fleet in early postwar years – I have to say that the little quip about them being well known "to the Traffic Commissioners" comes as no surprise if casual observations are anything to go by !!
By the way Joe, I know it takes some believing but nearside mirrors were not legally necessary until a date which just escapes me, but well after WW2. I just can’t imagine how anyone managed to avoid a "crushing" nearside accident for even an hour let alone day after day, and I certainly wouldn’t have liked it.

Chris Youhill

---

29/08/11 – 16:07

Certainly in later years, Surrey Motors of Sutton were a consistent AEC/Harrington operator. Could it have originated with them?

Mike Grant

---

29/08/11 – 16:09

Chris- when you consider that there were then probably more bikes on the road, you had little way of telling who was coming up the inside- and on this photo but not pre mid fifties, no trafficator either. Your jacket may have had a white patch on the right arm for you to stick your arm out of the little window whilst getting 7 tons+ on to unassisted full lock…. but telling people on your nearside that you were turning left…? Perhaps that’s what conductors were for…?!

Joe

---

I do concur with the view that this is a Harrington body – the cab design in particular does have the look of that coachbuilder. I went to school in neighbouring Selhurst, and I often saw the Margo fleet, including this Regal, round and about in the area. Later, I used to pop round to the Margo yard to see what they had acquired, and it was on such a trip that I luckily managed to get this photo. Often the gates would be shut and barred, probably to keep the Traffic Commissioner’s inspectors out as much as the general public. The transport press back in the 1960s and 70s regularly gave hilarious accounts of the skirmishes between Margo and the authorities. The excuses for the absence of drivers’ hours and fleet maintenance records always fell into the "dog ate my homework" category. Later, Margo rebranded as International Coach Lines, and bought a number of the early Bristol VRL double deck coaches.
Chris’s point about nearside wing mirrors is correct. Even when they became obligatory some buses, including, surprisingly, those of London Transport, had miniscule postage stamp sized efforts on the nearside.

Roger Cox

---

30/08/11 – 08:07

That was a good idea about Surrey Motors: yes, it was their no 15, new in August 1937 and sold in May 1955 and it was indeed a Harrington body.

Michael Wadman

---

30/08/11 – 19:21

Many thanks for that information, Michael. I often saw the smart AEC Regals of Surrey Motors in their primrose/brown livery during my schooldays in the Croydon area, and I did wonder if CPK 168 originated with them, but couldn’t find out much about the fleet history. I am surprised that this coach dated from as long ago as 1937, and it is a tribute to the quality of AECs and Harringtons of that period that it was still around in the early 1960s. In fact, given the standard of mechanical care meted out by Margo, its survival was little short of miraculous.
Sadly, the Surrey Motors concern was taken over by Epsom Coaches (H. R. Richmond) in 1980. Tempora mutantur.

Roger Cox

---

01/09/11 – 07:42

Strictly speaking, Epsom Coaches only acquired the licences of Surrey Motors, not the business itself. Surrey Motors Limited also owned property and this became the primary concern after 1980. The original company (incorporated Feb 17th 1919) still exists as a subsidiary of the Stock Exchange quoted property company Panther Securities PLC but the only (and very tenuous) connection nowadays with the PSV world is that one of the shareholders in Panther also has shares in a number of bus companies.

Nigel Turner

---

Re Surrey Motors. I see two of their preserved vehicles every year at the Goodwood (Motor) Circuit Revival Meeting. Pictures are here at this link. I’m certain that you know these coaches well but they will remind readers of the livery. Both are in splendid condition.

Richard Leaman

---

06/09/11 – 07:28

Michael has dated the coach CPK 168 to 1937, but my records for it show it in fact to have been 2 years older, so new in 1935.
It was one of four such coaches delivered to Surrey Motors that year, with fleet numbers 13-16, and registered CPH 624/5 and CPK 168/9. Dates I have are 5/35 for the CPH pair, 7/35 for the CPK ones, and these are shown as such in the list of pre-war AEC Regal chassis published in 2010 by the PSV Circle (publication C1131). The earlier dates also match with Surrey registration issues – during 1937 they had gone on to issue all the F multiples (FPA to FPL) and moved on as far as GPC.
The Margo story is quite a complex one and starts with the activities of Nathan and Rose Margo who by 1920 had founded the business that was later to become Bexleyheath Transport. Several other members of the family ran other businesses later – I have some notes on the subject which I will look out and provide a summary during the next few days.

Derek Jones

---

28/10/11 – 14:40

Margos acquired the vehicle from Simpson of Penge in November 1960 who purchased it from Surrey Motors in May 1955. I believe it was finally withdrawn and scrapped in December 1961

Graham Wright

---

29/10/11 – 12:26

Was it not Margos who ordered a large batch of Bristol LH/Plaxton coaches and then cancelled them when they were built? I drove DWT 641H at Stanley Gath Coaches of Dewsbury and I recall that Moxons at Oldcoates had DWT 643H.

Philip Carlton

---

30/10/11 – 14:51

It may also be of interest that in February 1948 Surrey Motors sent CPK 168 to Watson & sons, Lowestoft for a complete body overhaul also adding one seat to become C33F.
Further refurbishment was carried out by Harringtons in 1951.
The vehicle was converted to diesel (probably 7.7 litre) by AEC in 1953. Articles about Surrey Motors of Sutton can be found in Buses Extra Nos 2 & 22 if that helps.

Graham Wright

---

02/11/11 – 16:10

The Margo story is worthy of a book on it’s own. I worked for Atlas Coaches of Edgware run by Michael Margo and his cousin Tony Plaskow. Michael was Cyril’s son who I believe was really called Isadore. Isadore and Gerald were the executors to Nathan’s will when he died in 1959. Louis (Lou) Margo owned Margos of Streatham, later renamed International Coachlines. He was assisted by his sons Nigel and Dudley. Bernard and Gerald Margo ran Bexleyheath Transport and I understand that Sally Margo operated as Paynes of Croydon. I am still in contact with Ronnie Dalton who still operates from the Nursery Road premises as International Coaches and worked for the Margo family for many years. There was also Malcolm Margo, these days known as Malcolm Morris with transport interests in the Channel Islands and another brother who I cannot recall who briefly worked as Transport Manager for Kirby’s of Bushey Heath in the 1970’s.

Chris Sullivan

---

10/01/12 – 07:27

It was Alan Margo who worked for Kirbys. Bernard is his brother and their father was Charlie Margo who owned Margos of Penge. Alan and Bernard ran that company with their dad and later became known as Europa Coaches of Penge

Ronnie Dalton

---

04/07/12 – 05:21

Margos of Thorton Heath? that brings back old memories like when I was driving out of Merton for London Transport during a 60,s overtime ban a few of us went to Margo,s at Thorton Heath with the intention of recouping some of our lost earnings (from OT). My mates made a B line for the AEC Regents (preselect versions) I was too slow and got left with an ex Eastern Counties high bridge Bristol K to operate a school shuttle to swimming baths in Chelsea. I made my way there via Streatham and I shall never forget the cheering and clapping from the crews and inspectors outside A K garage as I made a pigs ear of the gear changes, thank God I mastered it by the time I got to Chelsea.

Depot

---

15/07/12 – 17:17

Apart from Margo’s I remember (rather have dragged up memories from my schooldays over 60 years ago, 1948) Timpsons, Bourne & Balmer (Taken over by Timpsons) and much more ephemeral, Omnia coaches of Holmesdale Road Bromley. (grey matter now in gear), in particular not in own dark green were 2 ex LT (LTL) single deckers (Scooters) still in red with no signwriting petrol (still) used on schools work GO xxxx series from 1929-31. Can find little info on the latter company and even less photos (nil). I think (only think) they were taken over by Metrobus of Orpington.

Steve Oxbrow

---

06/10/12 – 07:36

This vehicle was used in the mid 1930s to show a device that if fitted to the front wheels would stop a person been crushed.
A few still images from a short film of the time can be seen at this link

Philip Howard

---

07/10/12 – 08:29

Thanks, Philip, and thanks also to Chris H who has put a link on Flikr to this site. Interestingly, the picture shows the Regal with its original Harrington front wing arrangement.

Roger Cox

---

11/12/12 – 10:01

Re comment 2/11/11 Paynes Coaches was owned and operated by Jack Payne from 1 Kemble Road Croydon packing up in the early 70s, and next door to him at number 3 was Taffy Thomas who ran just the one coach, the last being a Ford Plaxton 52 seater which he sold in November 1975.

Michael W

---

29/01/13 – 18:01

Margos provided a school coach from Mackenzie Road in Beckenham (just down the hill from their base) to Bromley Technical High School near Keston. I used it from 1960 to 1965 at 12/6d per term. My Mum would make me eat porridge in the mornings and what with being bounced around on the journey and the smell of the pig farm alongside the school, made for some interesting mornings!
The driver was a Mr Farminer who would make sure we all sat in our allotted seats. On occasions a smaller coach would arrive and there would be a bun fight for the fewer seats. Inevitably there would be 3 of us on a double seat and 6 across the back. The best bit was sucking Jubbly’s on the way home in the summer!!

Terry Hammond

---

24/02/13 – 08:21

My Father and Mother started the business known as Margo’s Coaches Streatham soon after their marriage in 1945, shortly after they purchased some land in Thornton Heath to garage the coaches. The main stay of the business was Workmen contracts School runs and Private hire. I joined the business straight after leaving school at the age of 14 when we expanded the business providing coaches for the incoming tourist trade, working with companies like Thomas Cook, Globus Gateway and Miki Travel.
During the period that I was managing director we had a number of related subsidiaries:
South London Bus Company
Trans World Coaches ltd
Margo’s Luxury Coaches Streatham Ltd
International Coach Lines Ltd
Trans World Coaches Ltd was sold to Trafalgar Tours International in 1981 at which time I severed all my connection with the business.

No name given

---

30/09/13 – 08:00

I met Malcolm Margo in 1990 where he replied to one of my advertisements. Here began a long friendship. From memory his brother Michael was the only member of the family operating coaches out of South London. Malcolm and his cousins by then had pulled out of operating coaches. By contrast Malcolm took more interest in buying, selling, swapping coaches, cars, trucks sometimes under hilarious circumstances. In later years he enjoyed Guernsey where he carried on trading. Unforgettable character.

Anon

---

20/03/15 – 09:21

Malcolm Margo/Morris legend lives on in West Africa. Bus operation, Trucking, Taxis, petrol stations.
One of his apprentices. Readers you would never understand and I don’t want you too! A good man that taught me a lot. Never understood! Margo coaches in West Africa
Not quite under a different guise….Anon too much history.

John

---

07/08/18 – 06:16

I am surprised there is no mention of Margo’s Coaches located next to Brentford railway station. They were certainly there from 1966 to 1972.
Their coaches four front wheels (singles) and the usual twins at the rear.
The coach colour was an attractive redish brown.
One of the Margo family was with me on National Service in the RAF in 1954 – 1956.

Colin Hodgson

---

08/08/18 – 06:03

Colin those would be Bedford VAls like this one which had been moved on, when photographed, to Blaydonian. //www.sct61.org.uk/zzvyt430g

John Lomas

---

28/05/20 – 07:18

When I was a lad of around 14 I worked at the Thornton Heath yard cleaning busses for the grand sum of one pound a week! If I remember they had the old Summer Holliday RT. Which eventually was sold without the front of its roof. This was removed to replace another that had low bridge damage. I was given by one of the mechanics, the AEC badge from its gearbox. Now, if the company is still running, you still owe me around four weeks wages!

Roger Josling

---

29/05/20 – 06:49

You’re right, Roger. They had RT316 from November 1963 to March 1966, when it went for scrap. They also had RT320 for much the same period. However, RT400 lasted from 1963 until 1969.

Chris Hebbron

---

24/01/21 – 06:30

I remember at least 2 of the RTs that were in Summer Holiday. It was painted grey I think and the other was red as in the film. The RTs in the film were RT2305, RT2366 and RT4326.

Dave Jell

---

 

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

---

18/08/21 – 06:02

I recently learnt of Ronnie Dalton passing. Probably a year or so out of date. A coach operator legend with pedigree. The Thornton Heath Depot a much smaller place without him. Steven has no doubt taken charge.

Mr Anon

Copyright Ian Wild

Potteries Motor Traction
1946
AEC Regal I
Brush B34F

This shot shows PMT S315 an AEC Regal I about to be towed away from Milton Depot for preservation by Hollis of Queensferry ex Western Welsh Leyland Royal Tiger FUH 424 on 10th October 1970 – wonder what happened to it?
The engineless vehicle had been in use as a canteen/mess room inside the depot for a number of years until modernisation came in the form of a block work structure in its place. The large protuberances on the roof are mains light fittings used in its mess room role. The bus looks remarkably intact although obviously would be short of some interior fittings.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

---

17/07/11 – 12:24

A most interesting vehicle – the removal of the awful "domestic wheel spats" and the restoration of the rear mudguards would be quite a useful start in its restoration.

Chris Youhill

---

17/07/11 – 12:29

Strange how unattractive the vehicle looks with ‘spats’ over the rear wheels. Were they an original feature, or an attempt to fool the mess’s customers into thinking it really wasn’t a bus at all! Where is/was Milton Depot? Funny thing about streamlining in general. IMHO, the LNER’s A4’s always looked superb with streamlining, but better without the their spats. Bulleid’s Southern Railway Battle of Britain and sister classes always looked much better after they were rebuilt as ‘proper’ steam engines! But I digress!

Chris Hebbron

---

17/07/11 – 18:30

Definitely not original Chris – notice how the bus is now fitted with only an inner single rear wheel each side. The new "spats" are built in with beading and there are no release catches to be seen. The routine changing of wheels would have been made impossible with such fittings, and the sooner they’re removed – maybe already have been by now – the better eh??

Chris Youhill

---

18/07/11 – 07:25

The rear wheel covers were definitely fitted when it became a static mess room. Milton Depot was on the northern side of Stoke on Trent, on the A5009 near its junction with the A53 Leek Road. It’s over forty years now since the bus was taken for preservation – I have never seen any reference to it since so I assume it has been scrapped – unless someone knows differently?

Ian Wild

---

18/07/11 – 11:35

Just a note to point out this bus is fitted with the pre-war style bonnet, radiator and front wings, so would be a Regal rather than the Regal mk.III that was introduced for the home market around 1947/8.

Eric

Thanks Eric I have corrected it, my mistake.

Peter

---

19/07/11 – 17:01

The "Surviving Single-Deck Halfcab Buses & Coaches" website gives this entry:-
Potteries S363 > S315 (in 1953), Regal {O6624981} / Brush B34F, 1946, KEH 608, Tom Hollis, Queensferry, N.Wales. Sold by 1992. Scrapped?

I think that we should fear the worst.

Roger Cox

---

21/07/11 – 07:34

I’ve been trying to find a little more information about the batch that this was from because I have a good memory for registrations and I remembered that Silver Service of Darley Dale had one. I have been unable to find a PMT fleet list anywhere so all I had to go on were old copies of Buses Illustrated for 1961. Silver Service bought KEH 602 in 4/61, KEH 603 and KEH 609 were reported withdrawn in 4/61 and KEH 600 went to Eagre (contractor) Scunthorpe in 7/61. The interesting thing is, all of these are recorded as having been lengthened to 30ft and having had Weymann 39 seat bodies fitted. The vehicle above, KEH 608 is correctly reported as being a mess room at Milton depot but no mention of the body. Does anyone know if this was the only one of the batch not to be lengthened and retain it’s original body?

Chris Barker

---

From the fleet history 2PD1 (price 10/6!) it shows that S306/7/14 were lengthened to 30 foot and re-seated. S309/10/2/6 had the chassis lengthened and were fitted with Weymann B39F bodies. This left S305/8/11/3/5 in original condition.
I won’t attempt to go into any more detail as the fleet history of PMT is far too complicated and I’ll end up tied in knots. It was a fascinating fleet!

David Beilby

---

25/07/11 – 08:54

The engineering feats accomplished by PMT make the fleet history somewhat complicated.
There is a fleet list (to 1977) within Geoffrey Smith’s 1977 history of the company, and the text explains to some extent (without identifying exactly which bus got what outcome). Unfortunately his 2011 book does not attempt to repeat/update this.
From the 1977 publication –
KEH 598 – 609 (AEC Regal / Brush B34F) were delivered in 1946 as fleet number 353-364, re-numbered in the post-1951 scheme to S305-316.
Between 1952-55 there was a re-bodying programme
Four of the batch received 1949 Weymann bodies (lengthened to 30ft) that had been new on a batch of Leyland OPD2 chassis (yes, single deck PD2s) which in turn received either new Northern Counties double deck bodies, or 1951 NC double deck bodies that had been fitted to pre-war Leyland TD4s.
Another five of the batch had their Brush bodies lengthened to 30 ft. This suggests that only three of the batch retained their original bodies unmodified. This contradicts what’s been quoted from the fleet history above. However, the 1977 book includes a photo of S313 in lengthened form. The one pictured above also looks lengthened – the original body style did not have 5 full length windows. The Milton garage was originally owned by the Milton Bus Company, which was taken over by PMT in 1951. Milton closed in 1980 as part of the ‘MAP’ retrenchment. The building seems to have been quite basic. Photos of past PMT garages including Milton can be seen on the Stoke Museums website here. The land around Milton Garage was occasionally used as a parking area for withdrawn vehicles, e.g. those taken over from independents and not used.

Jon

---

17/03/13 – 15:45

The Milton Regal was stretched. The fleet number had an 8 in a circle. I visited the Hollis collection to do an inventory soon after he acquired the Regal, sadly it had been kept in open storage on a old colliery and had been heavily vandalised and had been scrapped.

John Cooke