With – Halifax Corporation Transport and Joint Omnibus Committee
1965
Daimler Roadliner
Marshall B50F

I have listed this under Halifax Corporation has that is who the Roadliner was on loan to at the time the photo was taken. I went on this bus to Brighouse on the 49 route which was normally serviced by double deckers maybe the intention was to replace them with high capacity single deckers. Halifax didn’t buy any Roadliners or any similar single deckers so the route must of carried on being serviced by double deckers.
I have tried to research which operator the Roadliner finally ended up with but to no avail, if you know, let me know, leave a comment.

By 1975 this bus was with the Transport and Road Research Laboratory at Crowthorne Berks, and was used for "Guided Bus" experiments involving the bus being guided by a wire buried in the road.

Derek Lucas

———

It was the Daimler demonstrator, a deal was struck with Bob Crouch at Daimler to keep the bus in Halifax but it would be released back to Daimler when needed for demonstration purposes, it usually worked the 5/6 circulars and later had a green roof.
The Cummins VIM V6 engine was a poor unit and lead to the early demise of these buses.
In Halifax the poor roads lead to chassis body flexing and the long chassis severely restricted route availability, also with long routes such as 48/9 it meant too many unhappy passengers standing up.
Finally at this time – it had to have a Gardner 6LX – or it was out!

Christopher

08/03/11 – 15:44

I believe this bus was sold in the late 70’s through the Gov auction sales at the OSDD at Ruddington, Nottm., I was a fitter at the time, my apprentice and I had a drive around the perimeter, it still had the mountings for the experimental equipment and only about 4 seats were installed.

Roger Broughton

29/08/11 – 08:14

We had a number of batches with V6/V8 engines, with Plaxton Coach Bodies for express services, FAST/GOOD HILL EATERS, but required one driver-one coach, to keep them on the road.
The engine sound going through a urban area at 02.00 hrs. was out of this world!!!! Went back to LEOPARDS, after the 4th batch, that or buy a 2nd towing unit. [mind you all top management had Daimler cars by then, buy 9 get a free car?????]

Mike 9

29/08/11 – 16:31

Here is another picture of the Roadliner under evaluation in Halifax, taken, if my memory serves me correctly, near King Cross. Personally, I doubt that GGH seriously considered this vehicle as a contender for the Halifax bus orders. Knowing his fascination with all things in the bus world, I suspect that he wanted to try it out through curiosity alone.

Roger Cox

04/01/12 – 06:56

I well remember the Roadliner from my time with Eastbourne Corporation in the 1960’s. The demonstrator CVC 124C arrived in Churchdale Road depot one Sunday afternoon, I can’t remember when, it was not used in service only inspected and must have had an impression on Mr R R Davies the manager as one was ordered duly arriving in mid 1967 as No 86 (DHC 786E). I was the first driver to take it out on service as a additional bus on service 6, the seafront route, the first one man operated bus for the Corporation which I must say did not go down too well with the residents of the Meads section of the route. Two more similar vehicles arrived the following year as No’s 90/91 (EJK 890/91) all three having two door East Lancs bodies and fitted with the Metalastik suspension. As many others have commented they were very raucous both inside and out the suspension also I seem to remember chattered quite a lot but their performance was a revelation. I believe all three had to have new engines before they had covered 30,000 miles. I recall that when selecting 1st gear when stationary the N/S front corner dipped quite noticeably. My lasting memory of these buses is of stopping on the seafront to pick up passengers when the engine cut out for no obvious reason and would not restart I then noticed in the N/S mirror smoke coming from the engine bay upon investigation I found the main electrical control box and master switch had broken loose and was swinging on it’s cables with terminals shorting on the exhaust pipe after very carefully switching off the master switch I found the short circuit had burnt a hole in the exhaust pipe. Meanwhile orders had been placed for Leyland Panthers, I left the Corporation in 1969 and the Roadliners quite soon after, it has to be said the Panthers were only marginally better.

Diesel Dave

J Fishwick & Sons
1951
Leyland Olympic
Metro Cammell Weymann B44F

I took this photo as I have previously said on a trip to the Fishwick depot at Leyland in Lancashire considering there location it is hardly surprising what vehicles they favoured. There livery was and probable still is a Moss Green and Dark Green which was different but quite nice. Practically all there service routes are local and either start, finish or go through Leyland I think the longer distance routes in the area will be handled by Stagecoach Ribble.
I have read somewhere that the Leyland Olympic and the Royal Tiger more or less began the end of the vertical front engine single decker bus, as the AEC Reliance came along three years later then the article could have a point. The Olympic was built in conjunction with the body builder Metro Cammell Weymann and I think most of them went overseas rather than the home market.
I actually e-mailed J Fishwick & Sons for any information of the above bus, as the company is one of a very few original operators still in existence, and they would have information going back to year dot. They did not even acknowledge receipt of my mail never mind supply information, shame really. The days must have gone when you could write and ask an operator for a fleet list and by return of post it arrived along with a sample set of bus tickets an the odd photo of there latest arrival. The credit crunch must be squeezing quite tight up in Leyland.

Hi, came across this picture searching around for Fishwick bus photo’s, I am from the Leyland area and although I can’t shed any light on this bus, I do have a picture of an almost identical Fishwicks bus taken last week at a bus rally in Leyland. As for the company, I am quite surprised you received no response from your email, Fishwicks seem to be quite keen on the history and tradition and always send a number of buses to local rallies and have a downloadable fleet list on their website. Anyway thanks for the picture.

Graham Rutherford

When I was a lad of 16 years, I was an apprentice to the Jamaica Omnibus Company in Kingston Jamaica. This was in 1968 and the outgoing busses on the fleet at the time were the Leyland Olympic A, B, and C the "C" being the long chassis version. They were replaced with the "G" Busses. These were clutchless with pneumatic shift levers. This photo certainly brings back memories.

Albert Walker

I have tried to email J Fishwick & Sons with regard to the single decker Leyland Olympian twice. I have been ignored by the company on both occasions. Apart from being amazingly ignorant or perhaps not very good at email can anybody tell me anything about them and especially the single decker Leyland Olympian 521 CTF. Do they still have the bus, is it still running? What do you know?

Edward Cambridge

Edward, this is a video of the actual Leyland Olympian 521 CTF.

Terry Malloy

You may be able to get more info from:-
Leyland Commercial Vehicle Museum.
King Street
Leyland
Nr Preston
Lancashire
PR25 2LE

Keith

I went to school on Fishwick’s buses 1959-1961, usually coming home on the 4.30PM Preston Fox Street to "Seven Stars via Croston Rosd" (actually service 115 but Fishwicks had no number displays in them days. It was regularly no.13, NTC 232 on the 4.30, usually full especially on market days, with a standing load, and people left behind. Passengers for Croston Road were rightly annoyed when Penwortham passengers were on, as they had the frequent "Earnshaw Bridge" bus (111). All other Croston Road buses were double deckers, but never this one.
Fishwicks had 8 Olympics, and 6 Olympians at this time, mostly for the Chorley routes under Pack Saddle Bridge, and the Bamber Bridge route along Shady Lane.
I could go on….

Bernard Parkinson

Apologies for digressing slightly but where did Bamber Bridge Motor Services fit into this picture? Was their route from Preston to Bamber Bridge exactly same as Fishwicks and if so was there a co-ordinated timetable? Did BBMS operate one route only?

Chris Barker

Fishwick’s Bamber Bridge route was today’s service 117, but ran every 90 minutes then, all day incl evenings and Sundays, but went via Shady Lane before Clayton Brook village was expanded by Central Lancs New Town. As today it ran via Brownedge Road, so did not compete with BBMS. This service always displayed simply "Bamber Bridge" whichever way it was going, despite its destination being Preston or Leyland (Earnshaw Bridge).
BBMS just ran one service direct Preston (Starch House Square)-Bamber Bridge (Hob Inn), plus works services to Leyland and Lostock Hall, In its latter years one service deviated via Duddle Lane (service D), while the direct route became service P (via Pear Tree).

Bernard Parkinson

Olympian 521 CTF is preserved and appears at rallies, not sure who owns it.
Spent most of its life working 109 and 119 routes, but also worked regularly the Sunday morning Croston Road service, (115), 10.12 and 11.12 from Moss Side (Black Bull) to Preston (Fox Street), 10.43 and 11.43 return (Seven Stars via Croston Road), which service actually went beyond Seven Stars up Slater Lane terminating at the Black Bull, then back along Dunkirk Lane to Preston. There was no 12.12 service on a Sunday, but the 1.12PM service resumed with the regular Croston Road bus no.23, LTD 445, a PD2/1, and worked this run every hour until 11.0pm.
The last Olympic to survive was no 17, NTC 234, which was 21 years old when withdrawn, its regular job in its last days was the Vernons Mill to Earnshaw Bridge service, which needed a single decker to get through Factory Lane tunnel under the railway. In earlier days two Olympics together worked this job, such was demand, one just to Lostock Hall,the other working through to Earnshaw Bridge, as shown in the 111 timetable of the day.

Bernard Parkinson

29/01/12 – 11:14

521 CTF Leyland Olympian Single Decker was sold by Fishwick to a man called M.Hayes, Mark Hayes I believe.
He apparently has a private bus collection and does exhibit the bus. Does anybody know anything about him?

E. Cambridge

29/01/12 – 16:30

Yorkshire Woollen had a number of these buses. My wife was a clippie at Frost Hill at Liversedge and remembers these buses being on service 36 between Leeds and Elland. On one occasion a driver drove through very deep flood water quite fast and the water came up through the inspection floor boards.

Philip Carlton

06/03/12 – 12:10

I Found the 521 CTF Bus. It is in the British Commercial Vehicle Museum. I shall visit it this Spring. Thank You All.

Edward Cambridge

25/10/15 – 06:23

It has been reported in the local media that the company went into administration Tuesday and the last service on the 111 route will be today.
A sad ending to a company that had high standards and delighted many of us over the years with the one off and unusual Buses that they operated.
The end of an era and a sad day for the Town of Leyland.

Cyril Aston

26/10/15 – 06:49

Very sad news about Fishwick & Sons. Another old-established and well-respected operator ceases to trade. Is there any indication about what happens to their services, most of which were run in conjunction with Ribble?

Pete Davies

26/10/15 – 06:50

Philip – how interesting to read that your good lady was on the 36 route – in the early 1950s I used to travel on the nearly new Olympics from Leeds to the top of Wide Lane at Morley to visit a friend. That they were of "semi integral" or "chassisless" construction was obvious from the moment the driver pressed the starter as everything from floors to luggage racks and windows began to rattle and thud and the journeys were very uncomfortable – a great shame because they were handsome and lively vehicles, but there we are.

Cyril – what an awful piece of news you’ve had to break to us. Being a traditionalist myself, but fully accepting changes in the Industry, I have always held Fishwick’s in the very highest esteem. Their colours, criticised by many as "dour", "drab" etc, are a tribute to unashamed dignity and smartness and the demise of the Company is a very sad loss indeed. Presumably and hopefully any staff so wishing will be accommodated by other operators in the area, while those sadly wanting to call it a day will be able to do so voluntarily.

Chris Youhill

26/10/15 – 16:14

I understand from the "Lancashire Evening Post" that Stagecoach are taking over the 111 service, but that the others will be subject to the tendering process.

Pete Davies

27/10/15 – 06:38

Just picking up on a couple of points above.
Bernard P – it may have been that Fishwick’s were not authorised to carry through passengers on the 117 service. Such restrictions were rife in the decades following Road Service Licensing (1930) and only began to be seriously eliminated with the so-called County Council ‘agency agreements’ of the late 1970s. Or Fishwicks may have found that it caused less confusion to passengers to do things the way they did.
Are you sure there didn’t come a point on the route where the destination was changed to ‘Earnshaw Bridge’ or ‘Preston’?

Pete D – I think you’ll find that in recent decades the only route which was operated by both Fishwicks and Ribble (to a co-ordinated timetable) was the 109. The fact that most of the other routes were numbered in the Ribble series was a leftover from pre-deregulation days when services were technically ‘joint’ with Ribble (i.e. operated under a joint licence) even though Ribble may have never actually operated on particular routes.
This is how Pennine’s Skipton to Malham service was service 211, in pre-deregulation days the services was ‘joint’ with Ribble, even though I don’t think Ribble ever provided any vehicles. Funny thing is, I don’t think Pennine vehicles carried route numbers until well after deregulation anyway!
There were lots and lots of services where Ribble had a stake, but didn’t provide any vehicles, e.g. the 39 from ‘Manchester’ (actually Salford) to Liverpool, which was mainly (perhaps entirely) operated by LUT.
The converse applied too, the 130 (Bolton-Morecambe) was joint Ribble/Bolton Corporation, but Bolton didn’t operate, instead they did the 122 (Bolton-Southport).

David Call

28/10/15 – 13:25

Further to the above, further reflection seems to say that the Malham service was 210, rather than 211.

David Call

29/10/15 – 16:40

A real shame to hear that Fishwick has gone under. There will be no question of Stagecoach maintaining the brand name, unlike the situation in Nottingham where the South Notts and Pathfinder brands continue in use as a positive marketing feature.

Alan Murray-Rust

22/10/18 – 06:12

Birmingham City Transport also ran 5 Leyland Olympics. 4 where based at Selly Oak Depot, and one JOJ 261 was used on the Hall of Memory/Birmingham Airport service. This one was based near the city centre.
They were Leylands first under floor engined chassisless single deckers. I believe only 23 were built.
I remember being amazed at seeing a engine on its side apparently suspended in mid air as the lack of a conventional chassis gave the impression the engine/gearbox were not attached to anything,
They where very high floored not easy to board for the elderly or disabled.
They where known to as Geeps by the staff at Selly Oak. I loved them, they were very lively and my first speeding caution was in one of them.

John Hipkins

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

09/04/21 – 07:25

The bus in question is a integrated body with a Leyland engine fitted to a Albion box it is in a private collection cause my mates owns it.

Aidy Burrows

United Services
1957
AEC Regent V
Roe L27/26RD

W. Everett & Son United Services to give them there full name operated from the Yorkshire village of Kinsley which is between Barnsley and Pontefract they ran services to nearby towns such as Leeds, Wakefield, Barnsley and Doncaster.
This bus delivered new to United Services along with UWT 875 another Regent V had a lowbridge body. If you look at first side window on the top deck you will see it has been smashed not by a bridge though looking at the bodywork.
United Services had quite a collection of second hand vehicles including a Dennis Loline from Aldershot & District and a very flash looking Titan with a Preston registration so ex Ribble, Scout or Standerwick I would guess. 
A good place to see more United Services photos is on the United Services section of Huddersfield Passenger Transport Group website to view click here.

This particular United Services was in fact made up of three autonomous family businesses who operated stage carriage services from the late 1920’s/early 1930’s under the United Services brand but also ran their own coach and paddy bus operations.
Willie Everett, the founder of W Everett & Son was my Granddad and my uncle Harry is the ‘son’ in the company name. Their bus depot was in South Kirkby near the parish church. The Kinsley depot belonged to Bingley Brothers, one of the other United Service operators (who had bought the business from another family called Granters who had been the first bus operator in the area). Cooper Brothers was the third family business partly operating under the United Services brand and it had a depot at one end of Stockingate in South Kirkby. The bus pictured is almost certainly from the Bingley’s fleet.

John Wrightson

06/10/12 – 18:52

I’m no expert on buses, but I used to travel on the United Services regularly in the fifties. We lived in Morley and my grandma (maternal) lived in Hemsworth, so my mother paid a monthly visit carting me along with her! This involved catching the West Riding 57/58 to Wakefield and then the United Services to Hemsworth. In the days before Wakefield Bus station we’d get off the 57/58 in Wood Street and catch the United at the Springs bus stops. In those days many of the United buses were former coaches and had windows you could wind down, like a car – guess who made a nuisance of himself winding the windows up and down.
When the bus station was built it was just a matter of changing platforms.
If for some reason we missed the United, we’d catch the West Riding service from Leeds to Hemsworth – but this only went as far as Cross Hills and we had to walk the rest. I recall also another independent operator in Hemsworth – Ideal Motor Services – I wonder what happened to them.

Geoff Bragg

10/10/12 – 09:10

The ‘Ideal’ referred to would almost certainly be, coincidentally, another ‘co-operative’ (they weren’t all that common) – i.e. that of Taylor of Cudworth, and Wray of Hoyle Mill, Barnsley, both trading as ‘Ideal’ and sharing a service running between Barnsley and Pontefract. There is a section on Ideal on this very site.
Taylor’s ultimately sold out to Yorkshire Traction, but most of their vehicles passed to Wray’s, who, I think, finished up with more ex-Taylor vehicles than ex-Wray, so to speak. Wray’s continued for a few more years (presumably running in co-ordination with Yorkshire Traction) before themselves selling out to YTC.
Another service running between Barnsley and Pontefract (but by a slightly different route) was operated by South Yorkshire Motors, but I don’t know whether or not it ran via Hemsworth.

David Call

David I can help you there, as I worked for South Yorkshire and successors (several) from 1987 until I retired in 2001. Under the WYPTE excellent route numbering scheme the SYRT (joint with Yorkshire Traction) route from Pontefract to Barnsley became 245. The service was basically hourly between Pontefract and Barnsley, with "short workings" to Hemsworth (Highfield Estate) also every hour, making a half hour frequency between Pontefract and Hemsworth – the latter Monday to Saturday daytimes only. The route was via Featherstone, High Ackworth, Fitzwilliam, Kinsley, Hemsworth, Shafton, Cudworth and Lundwood to Barnsley. The SYRT share of the mileage was handed over to Yorkshire Traction, along with the three new SYRT Dennis Darts, late in 1994 after Caldaire Group (West Riding) took over Pontefract depot. There, I bet you wish you’d never asked !!

Chris Youhill

11/10/12 – 07:19

Not at all, Chris, I’ve read a great many of your posts and they’re all enjoyable.
One thing I certainly didn’t know was that the Pontefract to Barnsley service was joint SYRT/YTC. Having had a look at the current 245 timetable, and assuming that the Hemsworth shorts interworked with the through service, I would say that four buses were required to run the basic Monday to Saturday service – two SYRT and two YTC? What would have been the Hemsworth shorts look as though they now run through to Barnsley as service 244, and the ex-Ideal service is still recognisable as the 246.

David Call

11/10/12 – 09:05

Thank you David and, yes, you’re right in thinking on "interworking" lines – at least throughout daytime hours Monday to Saturday – and that four vehicles would be needed. The South Yorkshire vehicles (and presumably YT as well) did alternate trips from Pontefract to Barnsley and to Hemsworth Highfields, taking a little under four hours for each cycle. One particularly vicious journey with which we were faced (weekdays) was at 1810 from Pontefract to Barnsley which also diverted via Highfields, a narrow and tortuous estate where by that time of day there was flagrant double parking everywhere. I may be mistaken – its a long time ago now – but I’m pretty sure that South Yorkshire did all the Barnsley journeys on Sundays with two vehicles to balance the mileage agreement, and of course there were no "Highfields" on the Sabbath.
I do still visit friends in Pontefract and I think that the whole service network in the region has been considerably modified now, especially since Stagecoach took "Tracky", and the services running into Pontefract are numbered in the two digit "30s"

Chris Youhill

12/10/12 – 08:23

Indeed. When I checked back it seems that the timetable I had found was dated October 2006 – but still coming up on the internet, of course. What was the 245 has now become the 35, while the ex-Ideal service seems to have blossomed into the 46 and 47. I’m not saying the routes are exactly as they used to be, as you say services have generally been modified.

David Call

12/10/12 – 12:52

Both of the AEC’s, UWT 875/876 were delivered new to Bingleys in April, 1957. Out of curiosity, I looked at Bus Lists because T. Burrows of Wombwell had an identical vehicle, PWY 943. I’ve often wondered if they were ordered together but apparently not. The Burrows machine was delivered a year or so earlier and is listed as an MD3RV with the 7.7ltr. engine, the two Bingleys vehicles were D3RV’s with 9.6ltr. engines. The Roe bodies were identical though.

Chris Barker

13/04/13 – 07:23

Just a slight correction to the original text. The front window isn’t actually smashed – its the reflection of the gable end of the adjoining building – Bingleys only ever turned out pristine vehicles in service. Also they did not operate to Leeds and Barnsley as stated here. South Yorkshire Motors of Pontefract did and the confusion is because they also had a blue and white livery like United Services.

Mark B

31/05/14 – 08:01

Mention of the Ideal service, Barnsley – Pontefract, reminds me of the long service 70, operated jointly by Sheffield JOC and Yorkshire Traction, which ran from Sheffield to Upton. I often wondered why this stopped at Upton and didn’t run through to Pontefract. This would have required a fifth bus and a third operator.
The licensing system often made what seemed to be logical routes difficult.

Geoff Kerr

12/08/17 – 07:45

The "United" bus service was operated by a number of Companies in the area as stated. As I recall from growing up in the 50s Bingleys of Kinsley was known as W.R & P Bingleys. From memory I seem to remember that their buses were a darker blue than the one pictured. My Dad (Fred Stacey) did drive for them from time to time on a casual basis. As well as the Coaches used on "Trips" to the coast he would drive the "Mill Buses" which collected the Girls from the Mills and he often drove the Wakefield to Doncaster route along with Frank Bingley. They shared the duties for this using a Daimler Bus which I recall did something like 2 million miles in it’s lifetime. It was always the last bus out of Wakefield Bus Station at the weekend en-route back to Kinsley and if you missed it you walked.
Frank lived at the Upton Depot and operated from there. Albert Holmes was the Chief mechanic operating out of Gorton Street Depot in Kinsley and his Son (Paul) and I spent many happy hours playing in the garage known as Hunters Farm Garage. I also vaguely remember the Taxi they had which I believe was a Armstrong Siddeley.
These were happy times when life was at a different pace but I would bet journey times were no longer then than now.

David Stacey

30/08/22 – 07:02

I was looking for pictures of United Daimler/Duple (I think) GWW 49 and GWW 50 which I sometimes caught from Cross Hills to Wakefield for school (1949-1957). (Having come on an ‘Ideal’ to Hemsworth from Brierley). United had an elderly ‘high bridge’ double decker, ex-Leeds, I think. Great fun going round bends on the upper deck. One time, early 1950s (?) there was a strike, which didn’t involve ‘United’ crews, but we were made to get off on the outskirts of Wakefield.

John Lovett