Huddersfield Corporation
1959
Guy Arab IV
East Lancs H37/28R

This bus looked very dated for its actual age if you think about it most Arab IVs had the ‘Birmingham tin fronts’ as they were called which looked more modern. The Leyland Titan on the other hand could get away with the exposed radiator look probably because there was a bit more to it than the narrow un-shiny Guy version depicted here.
This bus passed to W.Y.P.T.E. on the 1st of April 1974 and became fleet number 4191 and no doubt was painted there green and white, which was OK when clean but terrible when dirty, which most of there buses were for about 90% of the time.

W.Y.P.T.E. stands for ‘West Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive’

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Huddersfield only had two of these Arab VIs this one and its sister, registration number PVH 990 fleet number 190 they both had Gardner 6LX 10.45 litre six cylinder engines.

Spencer

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Two really excellent buses, the 6LX gave them hill flattening performance, really desperate shame Guy decided to throw all it’s eggs in the Wulfrunian basket which along with the Warrior truck had them bankrupt, the GUY Big J was designed to be a Daimler truck and this kept the factory going but this model was gone and by the time sense returned it was too late, a last flourish with the Mark V was too late as rear engines and one manning were to be the way forward.

Christopher

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I couldn’t be 100% certain, but I don’t think either of these fine machines were painted into "buttermilk and emerald" by the PTE. I also seem to remember that they had two pedal semi automatic transmission as opposed to the more normal Guy clutch and gearbox system – can anyone remember for certain ??

Chris Youhill

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Yes, they were definitely semi-automatic. Huddersfield had no double-deckers with manual gearboxes at all.

Peter Williamson

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27/04/11 – 07:37

I had the pleasure of driving 191 during it’s short preservation career. I can confirm it was, as Peter says, a semi-automatic gearbox which had a very bad transmission oil leak. Apparently 190 had also suffered from this malady during its service days and the gearbox had been replaced by a one from a Daimler CVG6LX using a Leyland PD2 prop-shaft! Neither 190 or 191 received PTE livery both remaining in the later simplified Corporation livery. Sadly 191 was sold for scrap due to storage and other difficulties.

Eric

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27/04/11 – 18:07

Guy’s original problem, Christopher, was its ill-judged entry into financing vehicles sold on the HP in South Africa, rather than merely selling vehicles through local agents, as previously. This strained its finances at the very time the Wulfrunian’s lack of development/testing came to the fore, and then going under. It did fairly well under Jaguar control, but was never going to get the support it deserved with the dominant part of British Leyland. It certainly never got any money to modernise and continue to produce its excellent vehicles at competitive cost, hence it was shut down.
But it was the self-inflicted South African venture which initially sealed its fate, sad to say. The Wulfrunian was an aberration: usually its vehicles were well-designed, well-built and well-tested before being released to buyers. A good example is when London Transport first took delivery of its somewhat troublesome austerity Guy Arabs – Guy actually sent many of its engineers to London and even told them to ride on its buses to identify problems and iron out the problems! They were soon sorted!
As an amusing side-issue, when Guy improved its gearboxes on later austerity Guys, it finally changed the gate from the reversed way (that is with first & second to the right and third and fourth to the left, London Transport was faced with confused drivers where both types were based at the same garage. It chopped a couple of inches off the new model’s gear levers; a satisfactory solution, it seems. But I digress!

Chris Hebbron

 
Photo by ‘unknown’ if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

County Motors
1945
Guy Arab II
Roe L27/26R

This photo was taken at the Huddersfield terminus and the bus behind is a Guy Wulfrunian probable owned by West Riding. The Wulfrunian was said to be very advanced for the time, but I have read somewhere that the only advanced thing about it was the all round air suspension, lets face it the rather strange layout of the engine and stairs didn’t exactly catch on did it, if you disagree leave a comment.
But back to the County Motors Arab II this bus apparently has been preserved but at the moment I have not been able to come up with a link to a dedicated website, if you know, let me know.
It started life with a wartime utility body but was re-bodied in 1953 by C. H. Roe Leeds and ended up two seats less at the end of it.
Hard to tell which engine this bus had as all Arab IIs had the extended radiator to accept either the six cylinder Gardner (6LW) engine of 8.4 litre or the shorter five cylinder 7.0 litre Gardner (5LW) engine. Although knowing Huddersfield as I do then I think this bus would of handled the surrounding hills much better with the larger 6LW engine, either that or  the driver would have to be very good at changing gear, especially down.

“Anything—pictures or info—on Guy Arabs is fascinating. Greatly enjoyed pictures and comments.
In Reading we had utility Arab 5LWs and 6LWs until 1949-50, when they were sold on. No 27 seemed to be everyone’s favourite. How I wish one had been preserved…!”

Ian Thompson 

“I can confirm that County 70 has a 6LW engine. At the time of re-bodying in 1953 it was fitted with a transmission of contemporary (i.e. Arab IV) design, which makes it much easier to drive than the original twin-plate clutch and sliding-mesh gearbox of the Arab II. This bus is currently in the Dewsbury Bus Museum.”

Peter Williamson

10/02/21 – 07:13

County 70 is preserved and is now semi-restored at the Dewsbury Bus Museum awaiting a full repaint.
Can confirm it is a West Riding Guy Wulfrunian behind. The other advanced engineering on it was that Wulfrunians had disc brakes.

Graham Crawshaw

11/02/21 – 07:17

Graham’s post has drawn my attention to my earlier statement about 70’s transmission. Since writing that, I have discovered that the last Arab IIs to be built had the constant mesh gearbox from new, and so it may be that 70’s transmission is original. Sorry about that.

Peter Williamson

12/02/21 – 06:10

The transmission of the wartime Guy Arab consisted of a twin plate clutch and a four speed sliding mesh (crash) gearbox that dated from the 1920s, in which the gear selector operated from right to left for upward changes. During the summer of 1945 Guy began fitting the Arab with a single plate clutch coupled with its new all constant mesh gearbox, in which, unusually for the time, even first gear had constant mesh engagement. This gearbox, which selected gears in the by then conventional left to right sequence, was designed and developed during the conflict, but pressures of wartime delayed its appearance in service. This transmission proved to be immensely robust and reliable and remained an option right to the end of Arab production.

Roger Cox

12/02/21 – 12:12

I was for a time part-owner of Provincial 55 which has the reverse gearbox. The gear lever was fitted with a red knob rather than a black one to indicate this; I am not sure whether this was an original Guy feature, or fitted by Provincial, but I believe the former. I don’t recall the box as being tricky to master, other that having to remember where to put the stick!

Alan Murray-Rust

13/02/21 – 07:07

My Arab which also has a reverse gearbox has a black knob. Issue with the gearbox is that unlike Leylands or Bristols you have to place the gear lever the others allowing you to use the selector box sides for guidance.

Roger Burdett

13/02/21 – 07:08

The red gear lever knob was originally fitted to the later constant mesh box to indicate the correct left to right sequence. The old Guy gearbox had a black knob. No doubt things got swapped about in the course of time.

Roger Cox

13/02/21 – 07:09

I’ve not met any Guys with the reverse gearbox, but those with the constant-mesh box usually had maroon gear lever knobs. Even the Daimler CCG models, which had the same Guy gearbox, had maroon knobs.

Peter Williamson

14/02/21 – 07:00

London Transport lopped a couple of inches off their reverse gearbox Arabs., compared with the later ones.

Chris Hebbron

Yorkshire Woollen District Transport
1943
Guy Arab II 6LW
Roe H56R

Not the best photo but the subject is, this Guy was ex Maidstone & District. From my research there seems to some information that it was re-bodied in 1952 but nine years is not a long time to require a new body unless it was a single decker originally. Photo taken at Dewsbury bus station on a very dull wet day.
If you know about the re-body issue or have information about the bus when at Maidstone & District please let me know.

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The early re-bodying issue is simple. Almost all bus bodies built from the middle war years used unseasoned (green) wood and sheet steel. The austerity design only required semi-skilled labour, hence no panel-beating and the bodies were only single-skinned inside. Even the ‘green’ wood provided was not what the bodies would usually be built from, such as ash. Thus, the bodies rusted and the wood framing literally disappeared with the years passing. At least, this was the experience of London Transport, who gave up their usual high standard of body maintenance on these vehicles as too expensive and disposed of the vehicles with indecent haste around 1952-53! Ironically, the chassis would have lasted forever! Oddly, Northern Counties were given permission to continue building metal-framed bodies during the war, which did make their bodies more durable than the others.

Chris Hebbron

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Chris is right. Bodywork built during wartime was to a "Utility" design necessitated by the circumstances at the time, and most were clapped out by the early 1950s. This one was originally built in 1943 with a Weymann utility body, and was one of eight acquired by Yorkshire Woollen from Maidstone & District in 1945 as a direct swap for the same number of Daimlers which had been allocated, but not delivered, to Yorkshire. All the Guys were rebodied by Roe between December 1952 and January 1955, with this particular one being done in January 1953.

Dave Jessop