Copyright Victor Brumby

Courts of Nuneaton
1939
Daimler COG5
BRCW H30/24R – 1949 English Electric H28/26R

Another fine shot from Victor with the following comment which was hand written underneath the photograph.

“FOF 269 – Ex. Birmingham Corporation Daimler highbridge ‘sit-up-and-beg’ body. Birmingham no 1269. Operated by Courts of Nuneaton.
JVO 230 – Barton Leyland lowbridge no 507.”

Interesting information I have come up with for Birmingham 1269 is that in 1949 it received an English Electric H28/26R body from No.765.
765 was a 1935 Daimler COG5 registration AOP 765 with a B R C W H26/22R body but according to my British Bus Fleets 14 – Birmingham City Transport due to war damage 765 was rebodied with an English Electric (M C T D) body in 1943. I am guessing that the (M C T D) stands for Manchester Corporation Transport Department who kind of adopted what Victor calls the ‘sit-up-and-beg’ look. Hopefully someone out there will put me right if I am wrong.

With regards Barton 507 which is/was a Leyland Titan PD1 dating from 1948 which had very smart Duple L28/27F bodywork. The reason I use is/was is because there are a few shots of it on the net at various running days so it would appear to have been preserved.

Photograph and Part Copy contributed by Victor Brumby

———

01/12/11 – 07:31

Whatever the machinations – and whoever actually built it – that is a Manchester Corporation (style) body.

David Oldfield

———

01/12/11 – 07:32

The English Electric body is definitely of Manchester Corporation ‘standard’ pre-war design. The downward curving upper deck windows at the front and side-front are the main characteristics. In Manchester this design was painted in a ‘streamlined’ livery which featured swoops to match the body design features.

Philip Halstead

———

01/12/11 – 07:34

Coincidently, at a bus group meeting two days ago, I was talking to Trevor Brookes who was the first owner of JVO 230 in preservation. He bought it in the early 1970s, I think direct from Barton, and kept it for quite a few years before becoming an operator himself as Genial Travel of Colchester with rather more modern vehicles.

Nigel Turner

———

01/12/11 – 17:15

I seem to recall reading, some time ago, that the downward swoop of the front and side windows caused water to accumulate at the four low points and rot the two front pillars.

Chris Hebbron

———

02/12/11 – 07:25

The body was one of a batch built by English Electric for Manchester and intended for Daimler COG5 chassis. However, production of the chassis was stopped by bombing of the Daimler factory. The bodies were fully finished and lettered for Manchester as can be seen in the background of a photo in my gallery at: //davidbeilby.zenfolio.com
The finished bodies were moved to Manchester for storage and some of the surplus ones sold to Birmingham as seen in the photo above.

David Beilby

———

02/12/11 – 11:46

Thx, David for that info. and photo. It’s amazing what sometimes lurks in the background of photos, but it remains hidden unless someone observant/knowledgeable picks up on it, plus good fortune to see the photo in the first place!

Chris Hebbron

———

02/12/11 – 16:16

Some of these "surplus" Manchester Corporation bodies went on to Arab I chassis, and some went to other operators on unfrozen chassis. Examples were Sheffield, and Newport.
The English Electric variants must have been among the last bodies produced by that firm.
Alan Townsins work on the utilities outlines most of the detail.

David. The photo of the rear of the "Manchester" EEC body is absolutely fascinating! With the Aberdeen tram being a "Preston" product too, could the photo have been taken at Preston do you think, before the trams were delivered and before the Manchester storage occurred?

John Whitaker

———

03/12/11 – 06:44

The Sheffield bodies were MCCW and sent to Weymann’s to be finished – making them the only true MCW bodies before 1967.

David Oldfield

———

The photograph is definitely at Preston. This photo is part of the English Electric photo archive which I am gradually scanning and putting in my gallery for all to see. There’s some very good stuff in there and I’ll probably end up putting one or two more strategic links on this site in time.
I haven’t got the Manchester Bus book in front of me at the moment, but I believe all the English Electric bodies were fitted to either Manchester or Birmingham Daimlers. The ones you refer to were Metro-Cammell bodies, which also went to Coventry and one or two other places.

David Beilby

———

03/12/11 – 06:48

Well I really think that this is a Crosslly body, just look at the front windows and the last two side windows by the entrance very Crossley. Manchester and Stockport used them being local near Mc vites on Crossley Road at Heaten Chapel

Nigel Ganley

———

03/12/11 – 06:51

1269, (FOF 269) was numerically the very last Daimler COG5 delivered to Birmingham City Transport. It entered service along with 1262-1268 on 1 November 1939 and was fitted with one of the twenty English Electric bodies surplus to Manchester’s requirements after most of their order for COG5s were destroyed at the Daimler factory in 1940. The EE body was fitted to 765, (AOP 765) on 19 May 1943 making 765 the earliest BCT bus to have a Manchester style body. The original body on 1269 was built to BCT specification by BRCW but were not as robust as the more numerous MCCW equivalent bodies. As a result BRCW bodies were disposed of early,with 1269 getting the EE body as a direct swap on 31 August 1949 with 765 going for scrap. 1269 remained in service until31 October 1953 but remained in store until sold on 4 September 1954 to W T Bird of Stratford. 1269 was sold almost immediately to Lloyd, Nuneaton who ran it until January 1956 and then sold it on to Court of Chapel End whom it is with in the photograph. It lasted with them until September 1958 and was sold to Mayfair Garage of Fazeley who broke it up.

David Harvey

———

03/12/11 – 08:58

Nigel. You cannot make that assumption. Crossley, like everyone else, built the bodies to Manchester’s exacting, even quirky, standards. It was almost impossible to tell the difference. [You had to look at things like rain gutters!] It just happened that Crossley occasionally "borrowed" some of these Manchester signatures when building bodies for other operators.

David Oldfield

———

04/12/11 – 07:49

According to Paul Collins’s book on Birmingham Corporation, 12 of the 20 ex-Manchester English Electric bodies were fitted to Leyland TD6c chassis, 4 to Daimler COG5s and 4 kept as spares. One of the TDs, EOG 231, whose original body had been damaged beyond repair by enemy action, is illustrated in the book. Another, EOG 215, later turned up with Laurie (Chieftain) of Hamilton, sporting, would you believe, an extremely natty tin front whose postwar Foden-like profile matched those prewar Manchester curves beautifully. There’s a photo on Scran www.scran.ac.uk/ but it will cost you a £10 subscription to see more than a thumbnail.

Peter Williamson

———

04/12/11 – 07:50

What interests me is where the location could be. We now know that the date is pre Sept. 1958 but did Court’s have any stage services? the vehicle doesn’t appear to have a destination blind. I’ll hazard a guess at Leicester because Bartons reached there with their service 12 from Nottingham and used PD1’s on it but the destination shows Private so then again it could be on a private hire job somewhere. Very interesting selection of surrounding vehicles too, what appears to be a Plaxton half cab body to the left, a single deck COG5 behind, the rear end of a Plaxton Venturer body to the right and a BMMO S type, the presence of that and a Barton in the same picture points me back to Leicester though!

Chris Barker

———

04/12/11 – 16:43

Sorry, Chris – I didn’t note the location of the Barton Titan and the Birmingham Corp. Daimler. They are at Kettering, at Wicksteed’s Park, a sort of antediluvian Disney World which it pleased folk to visit from round the Midlands on a weekend during the 1950s and 60s. So – a private hire, as you opined.

Victor Brumby

———

04/12/11 – 17:33

Wicksteed Park is still going today and is frequently advertised as a ‘day out’ destination in ‘what’s on’ tourist leaflets etc. Have to admit I’ve never been.

Philip Halstead

———

04/12/11 – 20:34

Ah, the hazards of guessing! but what a fabulous pair of vehicles to use on an excursion or private hire, those were the days!

Chris Barker

                     Copyright Victor Brumby

Cape Town City Tramways
1949
Daimler CVG6/6
Weymann H70R

I thought you may be interested in this wide radiator Daimler CVG6/6 I think the second six stands for six wheels as it does have three axels. It lies in the James Hall Museum of Transport in Johannesburg, alongside some other interesting British psv’s, including RT 2634. For another shot that shows the two rear axels click on this link //www.jhmt.org.za/

Photograph and Copy contributed by Victor Brumby

———

09/11/11 – 18:36

Are we sure that it’s a CVG6? The only reason I ask is that it appears to have the same radiator grill used on CD650s (with the big Daimler engine). I don’t have any reference books on South African vehicles so perhaps the customer just specified the CD650 type radiator to aid cooling in the hot climate.

Neville Mercer

———

09/11/11 – 22:01

It looks like Victor is correct in describing this magnificent vehicle as a CVG6/6.
I have come across this website written by a Mr David Jones (but beware of irritating pop-ups on the pages), which has the following interesting insight; //www.freewebs.com/citytramway/index.htm
"Undoubtedly amongst the most impressive buses I have ever seen were the twenty 3 axle Daimler CVG6/6 double-deckers with Weymann 64 seat bodywork delivered in 1949. They worked the northern routes to Bellville and Kuils River – proposed trackless tram extensions – and made a most impressive sight as they rounded the Parade with their deep throated Gardner engines and fluid flywheels. Unlike the other Daimlers, these beauties were fitted with wide radiators, normally associated with Daimler’s CD650 model, thus adding to their aura of power and size. The chassis was essentially Daimler’s trolleybus chassis and along with thirty Guys built for Johannesburg from 1958, they were the only traditional three axle British half-cabs built after World War Two. Coming from a sober, God fearing home, I had my opportunities to ride these buses to and from Sunday school picnics. It almost made all that singing and praying worthwhile. As an aside, I am probably the only Welshman to be kicked out of a church choir for not being able to sing. A CVG6/6 has been preserved in Johannesburg’s James Hall Museum of Transport".

Paul Haywood

———

10/11/11 – 17:12

A wonderful posting of a Cape Town City Daimler CVG6/6 at the James Hall Museum of Transport in Johannesburg. I visited this museum in October and noted the Daimler is now exhibited in the main hall so is more difficult to photograph but I did manage to get part of the Cape Town 1935 Ransomes/Weymann D4 trolleybus and a small part of this Daimler CVG6/6 which I have posted here for interest.

I have found all the links most interesting and many thanks to Victor, Neville and Paul.

Richard Fieldhouse

———

11/11/11 – 13:15

Regarding 3 axle Daimlers, it is interesting to note that Leicester ordered a batch in 1939 to complement their fleet of Renowns. Unfortunately enemy action laid this order to rest, but what magnificent machines they would have been! Gardner 6LW engined COG6/6s
Perhaps the Capetown buses had the CD650 type of radiator to distinguish them from the front as 6 wheelers (?)

John Whitaker

Copyright Victor Brumby

Wesleys of Stoke Goldington
1945
Daimler CWA6
Duple L27/26RD

As Daimlers have such an enthusiastic and knowledgeable following here, I proffer this 14/6/1958 shot of from left to right VV 8931, ACK 781, and ASD 834 at a day-trip to Wicksteeds Park, Kettering, standing by for their return trip. ACK 781 & ASD 834 were with Wesleys of Stoke Goldington and VV 8931 served then for Priory Coaches of Leamington Spa.
I will leave it up to you chaps to come up with the original operators of the above vehicles.
Oh! the ‘decker far left just out of shot is an ex-London Transport. STD 44, DLU 354, another Priory Coaches excursion bus.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Victor Brumby

02/11/11 – 21:12

Wonderful photograph Victor! What is it about wartime Daimlers, and independents of this era?
Maybe the "VV" is ex Northampton: it looks like a Park Royal body which were quite rare on Daimlers. ASD is Scottish is it not, but from where, I leave to the more knowledgeable. CK is probably Scout Motor Services, but not 100% sure. A wonderfully evocative picture of another "classic" independent, Wesleys, which I remember from reading "Buses Illustrated" when I was a lad!
Many thanks.

John Whitaker

03/11/11 – 09:16

Wesley is probably best remembered for the Crellin-Duplex "half-decker" coaches it operated in the late 1950s. The two machines, KHO 178/179 had Mann Egerton bodywork on Crossley chassis and had been new to the Creamline group in Hampshire. Several other independents (including Butter of Childs Ercall and Pegg of Caston) used half-deckers on schools services, but as far as I know Wesley was the only company to use them on stage carriage operations available to the public. Can anyone think of any other such operations by Crellin-Duplex vehicles?

Neville Mercer

03/11/11 – 12:20

SD was a Glasgow registration, but of course that only narrows things down slightly!

Stephen Ford

04/11/11 – 07:08

ASD 834 was new to Western S.M.T in 1945. It is a Daimler CWA6 with a lowbridge Duple body. SD was an Ayrshire mark.

VV 8933 ex Northampton Corporation 124. A Daimler CWD6.

Stephen Bloomfield

04/11/11 – 15:35

Interesting that ASD 834 had a Duple utility body. Massey, at that time, was the only official builder of lowbridge utility bodies and London Transport used its influence and argument that its earlier CWA’s were bodied by Duple, to get its 1945 order changed to Duple, too.

Chris Hebbron

05/11/11 – 07:11

Not sure what you mean , Chris H, about Massey being the only builder of lowbridge utility bodies in 1945. There were several others.

I have just been consulting the "bible" on utility buses, namely Alan Townsin`s book, which details the quantity and type block allocation system for the production of utility buses.
Highbridge Daimlers, Guys, and unfrozen buses are quite detailed in regard to this matter, but lowbridge Daimlers seem to be relatively simple:
40 CWG5s were lowbridge bodied by Brush (there were 60 highbridge CWG5s, 30 by Duple, and 30 by Massey.)
Lowbridge CWA6 were all bodied by Duple or Brush, unless I have missed something, and I can find no reference to lowbridge Massey bodies on any Daimler utility chassis. Indeed, they were rare on Guys also.
I think the ACK registered bus in Victor’’s photograph is a Brush body if anyone can confirm, and, of course, Southend had several. Duple built a handful of low bodies on early wartime Bristol K chassis, but most of these were built by Strachan.
It would be fascinating to see the timings of all the combinations in a tabulated form if anyone wants to help me research it.

John Whitaker

05/11/11 – 07:12

Western S.M.T had lowbridge bodies on Guy Arab II’s and Daimlers CW’s by Northern Counties, Roe, Duple, Massey, Brush and Weymann. Hants and Dorset had lowbridge bodies by Strachan, Duple, Brush and Roe on Bristol and Guy chassis.

Stephen Bloomfield

05/11/11 – 07:13

Bradford Corporation Passenger Transport also received some Daimler CWA6s with Duple lowbridge bodies in January 1945. These were 487 to 501 (DKY 487 -501).
However they were glad to dispose of them as there was no requirement for lowbridge buses in Bradford. They were never popular with the passengers due to the wooden seats which were a challenge on the upper deck. All these buses were gone by the end of February 1952 and some went to Nottingham for further use.

Richard Fieldhouse

06/11/11 – 17:14

Well, of course, you polymaths cracked my Daimler trio without delay. My puerile notes of the period give: ACK781 = Ribble fleet no. 2427, ASD834 = Western Scottish Motor Traction KR225 and VV8931 = Northampton Corporation # 126. Living fairly near Northampton, I recall my admiration of that all-Daimler fleet in respect of the impeccable cleanliness of their buses. I surmise that Northampton’s Transport Manager was a something of a martinet, in full charge of all he surveyed and probably ex-military…….
I still perceive in 2011, that German- and Swiss-registered artics are always clean and dent-free as if they were followed by a valet service and a mobile bodyshop. Of the Euro-fleet, I opine that Albanian lorries are the dirtiest – and sadly, GB-reg HGVs frequently display Albion’s mud to the Eurohordes. Shame.

Victor Brumby

08/02/18 – 15:00

I was at Wicksteed Park that day on the Monks Park Club childrens annual outing. The bus parked behind is a Northampton Corporation Daimler, end one of a row of four that took us over that day parked behind.

Bob Perrin