Photograph by ‘unknown’ if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Nottingham City transport
1945
Daimler CWA6
Duple UL27/28R

Some months ago, June 2011 to be precise, there was a question on the Q&As page from Stephen Ford about the ex Bradford lowbridge utilities acquired by Nottingham Corporation Transport for the then new Clifton Estate services.
I have now come across the above photograph of 47 (DKY 496) at a somewhat embryonic Clifton Estate. I have been told that the shot is likely to be Green Lane, Clifton but I can not be certain.
One odd coincidence is that the Daimler utilities were NCT numbered 44-50, the same fleet numbers reappeared on Clifton services a few years later, 44/5 on 1959 Metro Cammell PD2s and 46-50 on 1962/3 Park Royal Daimler Fleetlines. If you are interested you can view Stephens original question at this link.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Bob Gell

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29/12/11 – 09:29

Re John Whitakers comment to Stephens original question Pigtroughs and the ‘Flat’ part (roof?) may be understandable, but why the ‘Harriet’ part?

Chris Hebbron

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29/12/11 – 14:58

Nice photo of one of my favourite batch of Bradford buses! Many thanks.
I honestly do not know where "Harriets" comes from Chris, but I think it was just a Bradford "rudery", one of many which former mill workers such as myself tried valiantly to disregard!

John Whitaker

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29/12/11 – 17:58

Doncaster had some highbridge Weymann CWA6’s which looked a bit uncurved like this and lasted much longer – ’43 -‘ 58 – and seemed indestructible, if I recall, rather agricultural.

Joe

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30/12/11 – 07:27

Bradford had highbridge CWA6s too, Joe, and these lasted until 1958, until replaced by 25 ex London RTs.The lowbridge ones were sold earlier, as there was no need for lowbridge buses in the city. Also sold by 1953 were 467, the solitary lowbridge Arab 1, 474/475, 2 Weymann highbridge Arabs, and 6 Massey bodied CWG5 Daimlers, 468 -473. 467 was retained as a "school bus" , BCPTs term for a driver trainer.
As a schoolboy, I loved the flat Harriets so much because they were so different. I always had a fascination for old and decrepitly scruffy buses as they contrasted so vividly with the "posher" stock.
I defer from going into further detail regarding the meaning of the phrase,except to say it was not graciously received if directed towards young ladies!
I never used the term myself!

John Whitaker

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30/12/11 – 07:31

Probably Green Lane, but could be either the junction with Southchurch Drive (in the centre of the estate) – route 61 terminus, or with Farnborough Road on the south eastern perimeter, which, I think, was the original terminus of the 61A (later extended to Glenloch Drive). Unfortunately, it is not quite possible to read the route number on the combined blind. "Clifton Estate" is just about legible, and my impression is that the number is too long for the simple 61, so could be 61A. Clifton was a council estate re-housing occupants from slum-clearance property in the city. Car ownership was low, and a decent bus service was indispensable from day 1. For a year or two the termini of the progressively extended services were building site locations – probably a big help to the construction workers too!

Stephen Ford

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30/12/11 – 08:58

As requested a closer view of DKY 496 minus the bus stop

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30/12/11 – 11:18

OK – I retract that. From the closer view it is very clearly 61.

Stephen Ford

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09/01/12 – 07:11

The picture was taken at the original Farnborough Road terminus. The vehicle having turned round at the Southchurch Drive junction. This stop was the site of the temporary wooden St Francis Church building. The Daimlers were delivered to Nottingham in BCT blue but were repainted before entering service.

Ray Pettit

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03/05/12 – 08:04

Bus 47 entered service with NCT in January 1953 (we moved to Clifton on 12th January 1953). I don’t think that this is at the original terminus at the north junction of Farnborough Road with Southchurch Drive as the Wimpey site huts situated at this location are not there (there was housing on the opposite side of the road)and the lie of the land looks wrong. Service 61 was extended along Southchurch Drive to its junction with Rivergreen from 28th June 1953 and further along Southchurch Drive to Ruddington Road (later renamed Green Lane) from 7th March 1954. Service 61A, which is partially visable on the close up of 47’s destination blind, commenced operation from 4th April 1954. Initially the 61A only ran Monday to Friday peaks and on Saturday.
The location of 47 isn’t the 61A terminus at Farnborough Road/Ruddington Road as there was already some housing at this location when the service started and Rudington Road isn’t visable in the background. Likewise,I’d rule out Southchurch Drive/Ruddington Road as Ruddington Road isn’t visable in the background (construction of what became known as ‘the top shops’ – at least in where we lived in Clifton – didn’t start until 1954/55). I’dgo with the location being Southchurch Drive/Rivergreen. The land at the side of 47 was subsequently occupied by the Clifton Methodist Church and the rising ground in the background would also be consistant with this location.
Service 61 started operation on Wednesday 29th October 1952 after a process via the East Midland Traffic Commissioner that started in September 1951. The process was often acrimonious and subject to unsuccessful appeals to the Minister of Transport by all parties when Road Service Licences were granted at a hearing on 24th September 1952 to NCT, WBUDC and South Notts. So this October will see the 60th anniversary of bus services to Clifton Estate starting.

Michael Elliott

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24/10/13 – 08:03

The location of your photograph is Southchurch Drive Green Lane Glapton Woods Whitegate Woods are in the background the woods are on a hill and yet with no houses yet built this would stand out.

Dean Smith

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06/08/16 – 06:24

I remember crashes and break-downs coming home from school at Attenborough up the Derby Road Hill to the stop before Canning Circus 1954 ’til 1959. What number bus would that be?
Then going to Mundella Grammar School for a year (1960), don’t remember the bus for that- anyone know?
I think it was a No. 45 bus that took me to Margaret Glen Bott School at Woollaton for the next 4 years.
After that, it was Clifton Hall Girl’s Grammar School- anyone know what bus that would be from Western Terrace just in the Park Estate (knocked down now!!! boo hoo) to Clifton !965-67?
I am writing my memories down so I would be glad if you could pass me on to anyone who is interested in those areas at that time.
Thank you very much, I include my e-mail address, just in case I might receive some helpful information. Like how long did the Park Estate use a horse and cart. I set up a petition to save the horse from redundancy. It was in the papers.

Pippa Robins

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07/08/16 – 07:03

Hello Pippa, Assuming these were all ordinary service buses and not school specials, this would be the scenario:
1. Attenborough to/from Canning Circus would be by Barton’s (red buses). There were a number of route numbers (and routes). The most usual route taken by the 3, 5, 5B, 10 or 11 was Attenborough Lane, Depot Corner, Beeston Square, Broadgate (or Queens Road), University Boulevard (or Beeston Lane through the University campus), Gregory Street, Church Street, Lenton Boulevard and Derby Road. The 5X went along the Chilwell by-pass and Queens Road, missing Beeston Square, but otherwise as above. The 5, 5B and 5X were usually double deckers, the others always single deckers.
2. Mundella was near Trent Bridge, and would almost certainly have been a 43 trolleybus from the stop at the top of Alfreton Road – they ran about every 3 minutes throughout the day. Down to the Old Market Square, then Wheeler Gate, Albert Street, Lister Gate (now pedestrianised), Carrington Street past the Midland station, and Arkwright Street (also now pedestrianised), terminating at the Embankment, although I think Muskham Street – the last stop before the terminus was slightly nearer to Mundella.
3. Margaret Glen Bott was on Sutton Passeys Crescent, Wollaton Park estate, and a 45 trolleybus from the Canning Circus stop on Derby Road sounds right, although a bit less frequent than the 39 trolleybus from the Canning Circus stop on Ilkeston Road.
4. Finally, Clifton Hall Girls Grammar. There were several services to Clifton estate (61, 61A, 66, 67 and 68) run jointly by Nottingham City Transport (green buses) – via the new Clifton Bridge opened in 1958, or West Bridgford UDC (brown buses) and South Notts (dark blue buses) – via Trent Bridge and Wilford village. These started from Broad Marsh bus station, but all of them turned into the housing estate at Farnborough Road, quite a long way before reaching Clifton Hall. You would get a good half mile closer by using a South Notts bus heading out to Gotham and Loughborough. This started at Huntingdon Street bus station and by passed the estate, continuing straight along Clifton Lane past the bottom of the drive to Clifton Hall. From Canning Circus, you would take a 43 trolleybus, changing either at Broad Marsh for the joint service, or Trent Bridge terminus for the Loughborough bus, or possibly a 39 to the Central Market, King Edward Street, for Huntingdon Street bus station.
For more general memories, you might like to try the www.nottstalgia.com  forum.

Stephen Ford

Blue Bus Services
1959
Daimler Freeline CD650H
Burlingham Seagull C37F

The above photograph was given to me by the ex Blue Bus Inspector the late Ken Baker, when I worked for Derby Borough Transport, and was in charge of the Blue Bus operation at Willington, before the fire.
He had no idea where it was taken, but he thought it was in the Derbyshire Peak District somewhere, where as I thought it was in Yorkshire. Perhaps somebody will be able to identify the location?
120 JRB was unusual for a 30ft – long coach in that it was only fitted with 37 seats, the usual maximum being 41. Contemporary reports state that it was fitted with translucent panelling which could be lifted for ventilation. It was also fitted with an air operated pre-selector gearbox, and it was reported that it could travel at 55mph.

This coach was the first vehicle to carry the “Wings” emblem in place of the “Blue Bus Services” fleet name. If anybody is interested I have a Blue Bus Services page on my website, which can be found at this link.

I hope someone comes up with the location of 120 JRB.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Stephen Howarth

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19/12/11 – 11:06

Good picture, possibly taken in Wirksworth, Derbyshire.

Roger Broughton

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19/12/11 – 14:21

You have set us a teaser as to where this is! The pale grey stone suggests that it is in the southern part of the Peak District- but where is/was there a Natwest Bank? Wirksworth doesn’t look right on Google Earth- goldish stone & brick- & has a big Natwest: this is/was a part time branch. I wondered about Youlgreave…..

Joe

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19/12/11 – 17:19

Joe, Youlgeave (Pommy) hasn’t had a Natwest Bank, the stone is similar to both in fact all of the Peak District.

Roger Broughton

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20/12/11 – 06:50

Well the few bits that I can add having worked for National Provincial and later National Westminster Bank are that the picture was taken after February 1971 and the size of the Branch would suggest that it was an "Agency" open one/two days per week. These were attached to and run by much larger Branches so that would seem to indicate that it is not too far from a large town or city. Oh that I had my old Sorting Code book because with a bit of work you could eliminate possibilities using Google Earth! Sadly, we always had to destroy them.
I’ve just researched Pateley Bridge because the road layout at the top of the hill is similar but the Bank is Barclays and too far around the bend. So not much help but any old Yorkshire/Derbyshire Bankers out there might get closer.

Richard Leaman

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20/12/11 – 06:51

A flash of inspiration suggested Bonsall. Have a look at Google maps. I think the picture was taken from an upstairs window of the Kings Head, looking down Yeoman Street. The end of the cottage in the distance is fairly distinctive.

Stephen Ford

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20/12/11 – 09:29

Well done Stephen- it is indeed: Yeoman St Bonsall. The shops have been prettified into houses and the bank is no more but looks much the same. The pub car park, probably once some cottages, has been improved: in fact the whole place looks smarter. It is possible that the pic was taken from the memorial plinth, but it was probably higher.
I’ll stick to my guns, though, Roger, on the stone: it was always noticeable that the stone changed going south from squarish often goldish stones to this pale grey rubbley stuff, often found around those tiny sheep fields/pens. Compare say Baslow with here.

Joe

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20/12/11 – 10:21

I wonder were the coach is heading as the road out of Bonsal towards Brightgate is very narrow.

Roger Broughton

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20/12/11 – 11:24

My guess would be that it was either a trip to view the well-dressings (July) or a pub visit at the end of an organised sightseeing tour. Roger is right, Bonsall was the end of the line for buses (and still is). At the time it was North Western territory with a fairly regular service from Matlock, nowadays G & J Holmes and an hourly service during the day on weekdays.

Stephen Ford

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20/12/11 – 12:27

An amazing flash of inspiration, Stephen; I can’t fault it. Think of the chances that, from such a small group as us, someone would triumph! You shall have a gold star!

Chris Hebbron

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20/12/11 – 14:24

O come on, Chris. There’s some shared brain power among us – and we’re probably all getting on a little bit now!
Coming from the Peak District end of Sheffield, the whole PD is my (favoured) stomping ground. Now exiled in the south, Bonsall was a regular part of run out in the car I did when visiting aged (now dead) parents. I only ever went UP hill from Cromford and never had the perspective of this photo – looking down.

David Oldfield

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21/12/11 – 07:21

While it’s true that there are some widely-travelled folk amongst us, it still surprises me how many questions thrown at the website are answered. I’ll compromise by awarding Stephen only a silver star, then – okay?

Chris Hebbron

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21/12/11 – 07:22

I’ve played around on Streetview, and if you paste this link into your browser, you can see the scene as it is today when map loades drag and drop the little orange man to the Kings head at this Google maps link.

KC

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21/12/11 – 08:56

Hy Hulley, now there’s a name from the Peak District, nearly had the variety of vehicles of Barton, some out of COF vehicles would be parked on open land opposite the garage in Baslow, now luxury flats are parked there ! The business is still operating as Hulley under the Woolicrofts ownership ex Silver Service of Darley Dale. In the 1978 Busus annual there is a good article on Peak District operators from the 30’s.

Roger Broughton

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21/12/11 – 08:57

Scrooge! I didn’t mean that Stephen didn’t deserve the Gold Star – I’ll reinstate it and take this opportunity to say Happy Christmas to ALL friends on this wonderful site.

David Oldfield

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21/12/11 – 11:41

………and I’ll second that, a Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to all.

Chris Hebbron

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21/12/11 – 12:03

That must have been one of the last Freelines built – also one of the last Daimler 10.6 litre engines. Wonder if Blue Bus managed to acquire a stock chassis at a knock down price for being a loyal Daimler customer? The steering wheel position in the Freeline always looks too high although presumably the drivers seat was similarly raised to achieve the required min 6"/max 10" clearance between the top of the seat cushion and the underside of the steering wheel rim required by the Conditions of Fitness Regulations.

Ian Wild

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21/12/11 – 13:50

When I said inspiration, I didn’t mean the miraculous sort (or sticking a pin in a map at random either)! I was just thinking of places I have visited that might fit, then checking them in Google. Roger mentioned Brightgate just to the north of Bonsall, and we have in fact camped in a very old static caravan at Brightgate farm a few times. Even in the prettified state that Joe referred to, Bonsall is a grey village and can look a bit dreary in anything less than brilliant sunshine. I think my inspiration was along the lines of "it looks grey enough to be Bonsall!"

Stephen Ford

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21/12/11 – 14:55

Stephen, The Barley Mow on the Slaley Rd out of Bonsall is a very good watering hole which has recently changed hands, good beer and food.

Roger Broughton

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22/12/11 – 06:32

It certainly wasn’t one of the last Freelines, I’m not sure when production officially ceased but Great Yarmouth took some in 1964 with ‘B’ registrations. It would have been, however, one of the very last Burlingham Seagull’s to the original design. By no means a unique combination and yes, all of them appeared to have very high steering wheel positions, what is not immediately apparent is that this one had three long panoramic windows on each side and one piece windscreens, not the horizontally divided opening type. I think Yelloway had some to this diagram also. Delivered in June 1959 only just in time for that years summer, I think that was the last season of this particular shape. If Blue Bus had waited till the following year, they could have had the Seagull 70 body, now that would have been a unique combination!

Chris Barker

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22/12/11 – 06:33

With Streetview you can actually get a link for the exact view you want rather than the map. Here it is: //g.co/maps/gysy4
Hulleys are indeed still operating, but I’ll have to look up their history. I think the link with Wooliscroft/Silver Service was short-lived and they had to be rescued by someone else.

Peter Williamson

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22/12/11 – 07:46

If what Chris says is true, then that would indeed make it the Seagull VII and 1959 was about as late as you could get.
I know Hulley’s became independent of Wooliscroft but have no idea of the eventual (current) ownership. Some hazy reflection puts them back into the Hulley family but I could never swear to this.

David Oldfield

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23/12/11 – 06:52

There is a history of Hulleys on their website //www.hulleys-of-baslow.co.uk/  which explains everything. The fleet now looks very smart in a dignified blue and cream livery which was originally inspired by second hand purchases from South Notts.

Peter Williamson

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23/12/11 – 06:53

I am pretty sure the Great Yarmouth Freelines were the last, certainly for the home market. They were bought while Geoffrey Hilditch was the General Manager, a man who had very firm ideas on bus purchasing and as an engineer tended to go for high specification designs on the grounds they gave better pay-back in the long term. He took these principles to Halifax and then Leicester where he subsequently held the GM posts.
It always seemed strange to me that while Daimler were very successful with their double deck designs, eg the CVG and the Fleetline, they were never as successful with single deckers. The Freeline was a well engineered chassis but on the heavy and expensive side at a time when the industry was moving to lighter weight and lower cost. The subsequent Roadliner seemed to be a disaster from the start.

Philip Halstead

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23/12/11 – 06:55

Premier Travel and Valliant of Ealing were also customers for the Seagull Mk VII, amongst others. The first Mk VII, on Leyland Tiger Cub chassis, appeared at the 1958 Commercial Motor Show in Seagull Coaches of Blackpool livery, just like the original Seagull at the 1950 show. Several of the Valliant examples plus all four Yelloway examples ended up with Premier Travel, joining the one they bought new, which made Premier Travel the largest operator of the type. Burlingham’s offering for underfloor engined coaches in 1960 remained the Seagull Mk VII, the Seagull 70 only appearing for the 1961 season, ie a year later than the similarly styled Seagull 60 for forward engined chassis appeared.

Dave Williamson

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23/12/11 – 12:15

I made several journeys in the Gt. Yarmouth Freelines in the early seventies when they were on hire to Eastern Counties and they were very pleasant vehicles to ride in – a sort of up market Bristol MW. I believe Yarmouth had a good line in hiring them to coach operators whose vehicles had broken down in the area.

Nigel Turner

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24/12/11 – 06:46

The only time I ever saw the Great Yarmouth Freelines was at Huntingdon St Bus Station, Nottingham in the mid sixties. One would sometimes appear as a summer Saturday extra on Trent’s Great Yarmouth service. At this time, Trent often hired in Norfolk Motor Services coaches as required – presumably the Freeline was part of this arrangement?

Bob Gell

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11/08/12 – 07:32

Belated update on 120 JRB (have only just discovered your site) – am most impressed by how quickly the location of this shot was nailed down, incidentally! Lovely image of what was – arguably – the final Daimler-engined Freeline (Burwell & District had the other such chassis that could make the same claim to fame). The lack of window-pillars made quite a visual difference, certainly in the flesh.
Stephen asks if anyone knows the whereabouts of Dr 18: am guessing we know of her early years in preservation and subsequent re-emergence in a Barnsley scrapyard (what DID happen, though?) – since then, Dr 18 has covered quite a few miles, changing hands along the way several times, until (last I heard) she was in a barn near Uttoxeter with several other vehicles (so, not far from her Willington home) awaiting her turn for restoration. Somewhere, I have two or three colour shots of her in this location. If and when I find them, I’ll scan and submit.
Would LOVE to meet up with Dr 18 again though, so if anyone has more recent info (I’m going back at least half-a-dozen years, via a contact)…

Clarence

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13/10/15 – 06:20

Some 3 years on since the "turn" comment (11/08/12), the vehicle is still in the same shed in the same condition. Would feel that restoration really quite unlikely now.

Roger Burdett

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07/12/15 – 06:15

Freeline 120 JRB is indeed located near Uttoxeter together with CD650 SRB 425 and is owned by Mr Andy Mould. It is indeed the only ‘complete’ surviving Freeline in GB and is well worthy of restoration. It is mechanically sound but does need a full body restoration. It is now unique.

Gerald Anthony

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02/08/16 – 17:27

How nice to hear this coach has been preserved. The last I heard was that it was rotting in a scrapyard in the Bradford area.
I was Youth Club Leader at Stretton Church during the 1960`s (Stretton being on the Blue Bus service route)
We had a"Blackpool Trip" every year in September and would always ask for this coach known as "Daimler 18" because our coach enthusiasts liked the sound of the powerful Daimler engine and the hissing of the air operated clutch.
I have a painting of 120 JRB standing outside Repton Church.
I remember we paid less than £1 per person for the coach (out for 20 hours on a 240 mile round trip) and a ticket to see Cliff Richard in Blackpool plus a tour of the illuminations.
We also asked for "Frank". one of Blue Buses`s young drivers.
Those were the days !!

Philip Whieldon

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Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

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17/08/16 – 09:56

I was kind of hoping you might shed some light on the whole Seagull Mk7 history as I am the owner of Blue Bus Dr18 120 JRB I can find very little other history on this period of Burlinghams activity and just wondered how many ‘plastic pigs’ were built, the body panelled entirely in fibreglass providing all the outline with a straight framed body must have been a brave step and taken a lot of development, although far from their finest hour, having restored BMS 415 many years ago I can fully appreciate how good they could be and 120 JRB is far from that build quality even evident after many years.
So I would be keen on know just how many were built I am aware of 999 EAE was 7 body numbers apart but I am told two of those numbers were allocated but never used.
Any information would be gratefully received.

Andy Mould

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18/08/16 – 06:48

Reference comment of Andy Mould 17/08/16. his restored coach BMS 415.
Behind CFK 340 is BMS 415 returning from Manchester Museum 3rd of April 1982 location of photo is unknown any detail be gratefully accepted.

Alan Coulson

Copyright Victor Brumby

Spiers Tours Birmingham
1939
Daimler COG5 – re engined COA6
BRCW H30/24R – MCCW H30/24R – Burlingham FC37F

Yet another great shot from Victor of another ex Birmingham Daimler CO5G with the following note.

“FOF 251 – Ex Birmingham Corporation no 1251 rebodied and operated by Spiers Tours Birmingham. Daimler.”

Victor is defiantly correct with his rebodied comment but with the aid of my BBF 14 and Peter Goulds excellent website it would appear the body in the shot above on FOF 251 is its third.

1251 – FOF 251 received a MCCW H30/24R body from 939 – COH 939 in 1948/9. A comment in BBF says against the 919-963 batch ‘Many bodies interchangeable 1948-49’. This comment appears time and time again with different dates against batches of COG5s one has to ask the question did Birmingham have the same system as London Transport had with interchanging RT bodies when the vehicle were being overhauled?

After a little more research it gets more interesting and starts to dismiss the interchanging at overhaul theory because 939 was withdrawn in 1949 but what is even more interesting so was 1251, so why interchange the bodies then withdraw them both?

Photograph and Part Copy contributed by Victor Brumby

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08/12/11 – 06:27

…..and that’s a Burlingham coach body.

David Oldfield

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08/12/11 – 06:28

The new body is by Burlingham. Yelloway of Rochdale had a pair of identical ones on Leyland PS2/7 chassis with FC37F layout. They were HDK 801/2 of 1951.
This was probably Burlingham’s last attempt at modernising the body design for front engined chassis before the onslaught of the underfloor engine and the introduction of the Seagull.
There is a photo of HDK 802 in the book ‘The Yellow Road’ which covers the history of Yelloway from its rise, heyday to the sad decline in the post-deregulation era. But that’s another story.

Philip Halstead

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09/12/11 – 10:36

Please see Harper Bros AEC Regal III posting – including comments today (9.12.11) – for the half-cab version of this body. To make life easy here is a quick link.

David Oldfield

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10/12/11 – 07:23

Yet another fascinating subject! If it was withdrawn as a double decker in 1949 (didn’t Birmingham vehicles usually have longer lives?) It’s fair to assume that this body was fitted in that year or 1950. It’s always a source of wonderment to me, not living in those times, that operators did such things, presumably it would have provided a slow and loud ride, but then there were no motorways or by-passes in those days! One thing occurred to me, I know that the COG5 was a fairly common choice for coaching before WW2 but I don’t remember hearing of any examples of CVG5’s as coaches post 1945. Weren’t all Daimler coaches post war of the CVD6 variety?

Chris Barker

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10/12/11 – 08:47

As far as I know, you are correct about CVD6 coaches.

David Oldfield

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10/12/11 – 12:25

Was it the case then that TVD (Daimler) would only supply CV chassis with their own engines when they produced these post war? Gardner only seemed to return later with the various "tin front" CVG6’s, which then seemed to eclipse the Daimler engine & fluid flywheel. Anyone know more?

Joe

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10/12/11 – 15:05

Salford certainly had a fair sized batch of post-war CVG6s (as opposed to CVDs)with exposed radiator and the quadrant-style pre-selector change.

Stephen Ford

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10/12/11 – 15:07

With Gardner under pressure to supply several other bus and lorry manufacturers, Daimler sought to relieve this constraint on its output, and increase in house value by offering its own oil engine. The Daimler 8.6 litre engine was developed immediately prior to the outbreak of WW2, prototypes having being constructed in 1936. The destruction of the Radford works in the heavy air raids of 1940 and 1941 put back the production process until 1945. The design emulated the feature used successfully by Dennis (and later by Meadows also) of employing timing gears at the rear of the engine rather than a front mounted timing chain as used by Gardner and others. This resulted in a compact unit, but meant that the engine had to be removed from the chassis to allow access to the timing gears. Had the engine been as outstandingly reliable as the Dennis designs, then this would not have been a problem. Sadly, the CD6 unit soon became noted for its fuel thirst, and a marked variability in quality between individual engines, the best being good, but the worst examples being considered as bad a the Crossley HOE7. London Transport, having had experience of a batch of thirteen(!) CWD6 buses taken in 1945, refused to take any more Daimler engines, and replaced the thirteen it had with AEC 7.7s in 1950. Like the Crossley, the smooth running CD6 engine seemed best suited to coach work rather than the heavier demands of double deck or stop start stage carriage duties, and most CVD6 chassis were bodied as coaches. There were exceptions, such as the large batch of CVD6 double decks operated by Birmingham. By the mid 1950s, with bus and coach travel beginning to suffer from private car competition, the Daimler engine largely vanished as an option, one of the last examples probably being the turbocharged unit fitted experimentally in a Halifax CV ‘decker in 1964, by which time it was a rarity. Interestingly, the prototype Fleetline had a Daimler engine, and one wonders if the firm ever seriously considered this for production. The Freeline single decker also had a Daimler engine option. Gardner engines continued to be offered in CV chassis throughout the brief reign of the CD6, and, of course, beyond, where they became standard in the Fleetline.

Roger Cox

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11/12/11 – 06:52

Not a lot to say after Roger’s comprehensive and knowledgeable post. The AEC was the standard war-time engine on the CW version and was popular and reliable enough to survive into CV time (as indeed did the Bristol K6A). Most CVD6 deckers were, like the Crossley DD42s, delivered because operators were desperate and they were available. [The Salford CVD6s were diverted from Chester.]
Sheffield were never a Daimler operator until the Fleetline effectively replaced the AEC Regent but their only post war Daimlers were CVD6/NCB. There were no further orders for half cab Daimlers.

David Oldfield

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11/12/11 – 06:53

According to Peter Gould’s site it was 1252 and not 1251 which received the body from 939. 1252 then survived until 1954.
My (admittedly limited) experience of COG5s suggests that FOF 251 would have been far from noisy. I only had one ride on a Manchester one, but it was every bit as sweet and refined as the CVG5s built more than 15 years later, and in fact with eyes closed the riding experience was identical. Slow it might have been, though, especially as with 37 seats it must presumably have been extended beyond its original length. Prewar COG5-40 coaches had five-speed gearboxes and probably lighter bodywork.

Peter Williamson

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20/12/11 – 10:24

FOF 251 was fitted with an AEC 7.7 engine some time after it received its Burlingham coach body as this would have been a much smoother unit for coaching duties. This was before it joined Spiers tours so in the photo it is, in effect, a COA6!
It was scrapped in 1964.

Steve Calder