Kingston upon Hull Corporation Transport
1953
AEC Regent III
Weymann "Auroa" H32/26R

Regent III I hear you shout, yes I thought it was a Daimler as well, until Paul Morfitt a K.H.C.T. expert pointed it out to me. K.H.C.T. bought 6 of these Regent IIIs with the Birmingham style tin front, they were apparently the last front engine/open platform buses bought brand new by them. Fleet number 337 is now fully preserved and should be out on the rally circuit next summer (2010) so keep your eye out for it. There is also a restored Bradford City Transport Regent III with a similar tin front it can be seen here.

04/04/13 – 06:28

The Weymann Aurora body is something of an enigma. The first one – also co-incidentally on an AEC Regent III with tin front – was built for Devon General and exhibited on the MCW stand at Earls Court in 1952 alongside the prototype Orion. An MCW sales brochure was produced, which was still being distributed two years later, but no more bodies of that type were ever built. In the meantime Weymann had been building this much more elegant design, which most people agree bears no resemblance to the prototype described in the brochure, and which could instead be traced back much more clearly to earlier Weymann bodies. It is almost as though Weymann simply thumbed its nose at the MCW design team and just carried on with their own design evolution as if nothing had happened.
To confuse matters still further, a brief article in a recent edition of Classic Bus magazine, describing the prototype (which is now preserved) as unique, it was answered by not one but two letters referring to production Auroras as "virtually identical" to the prototype – one of them referring to these Hull vehicles and the other I think to some Bristols for Maidstone and District. It seems that resemblance, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder!

Peter Williamson

04/04/13 – 08:29

The Aurora is certainly an enigma – and a trap for those who only know half the story. I too have been puzzled by the lack of similarity between to prototype and production versions but the Weymann Story (in two volumes Senior/Venture) is very clear. The Aurora name was used for these modernised versions of the classic Weymann design (produced from 1953 to 1959). The MCCW Orion design was produced at Addlestone from about 1953 (the first being re-bodies of war time Guys for Maidstone & District). Interestingly, Addlestone were also building Aurora bodies on war time Bristols for M & D. What most people didn’t realise – me included – is that the Aurora name was then resurrected as the official and proper name for the forward entrance version on the Orion.

David Oldfield

04/04/13 – 11:03

Just remembered the Bournemouth trolleys which had the Aurora as late as 1962.

David Oldfield

04/04/13 – 11:04

Here is a photo of the preserved one-off 1952 Aurora, Devon General NTT 679, taken at the Devon General Running Day at Newton Abbott in 1993.

John Stringer

04/04/13 – 15:49

The main difference between the prototype Aurora and the production model seems to be the move from pan window fixing to rubber mounting.

Here is an example of the production version as supplied to Birkenhead Corporation in 1954. Apart from being on an exposed radiator chassis, it differs from the Hull version in having a 5-bay body. The traditional Weymann drooping saloon window is much in evidence. Birkenhead dabbled with Weymann as a body supplier. The batch of 10 Auroras was not the whole of the CBG intake, the remaining 5 of the batch having locally-built Ashcroft bodies. The 1955 intake of 17 vehicles (10 PD2 and 7 Arab IV) saw half the PD2s bodied with the Orion style, and finally in 1964 came the one-off batch of 10 Fleetlines, again with Orion style, one of which appears on the left of the picture. (Originally delivered with the cream relief as window surrounds only, the appearance of the Fleetlines was much improved with the application of the standard livery on repaint, as seen here.)

Alan Murray-Rust

05/04/13 – 05:51

To me there are more differences than similarities. On the prototype, the dimensions of the windows – deep lower, shallow upper – are more like a production Orion than any other Aurora (and the deep lower deck windows were made much of in the sales brochure). On the production version, as Alan says, the traditional Weymann drooping bulkhead window is much in evidence, whereas on the prototype the top rail is straight and only the bottom curved, again just like most highbridge Weymann Orions. In fact the only similarities I can find (using other images) are in the front and rear domes and the rear emergency window.

Peter Williamson

23/04/13 – 07:50

My favourite bus, thin steering wheel and a smooth seat which you could slide off on exit from a roundabout and if it was a hot day and your cab door was open it could be interesting. A lot of drivers didn’t like them because you couldn’t see the pavement from the cab. I thought they were great, the exhaust would roar when you put your foot down.

box501

03/06/14 – 12:52

The Daimler and Guy Utilities of Maidstone and District were rebodied with a later form of five bay Weymann body derived from the pre and early post war design but with deeper windows upstairs. Only some Utility Bristol K6As had four bay ‘Aurora’ or five bay ‘Orion’ bodies. The only Orion bodied Guys which Maidstone and District had, were the Guy Arab IVs acquired or ordered by Chatham and District which were based on new post war chasses.

Gordon Mackley

Kingston upon Hull Corporation Transport
1950
AEC Regent III RT
Park Royal H30/26R

KHCT had a large second hand batch of these RT types from 1962 to 1970 they were ex St. Helens Corporation, this bus was D63 in there fleet. There is a preserved St Helens RT type fleet no D67 and a good picture of it is here. There is also a picture here of ex fleet no D70 whilst in service with Norfolk’s of Nayland.

———

It’s amazing how a different livery and adverts can almost camouflage such an iconic vehicle as an RT. It looks superb in KHCT’s colours and the streamlined style suits it. It’s a shame, though, about the missing rear wheel spats and painted-over front wheel chrome rings to complete the idyll.
Thx for the post. AS for the advert, "What we want is Watneys" and ‘Red Barrel" keg bitter come to mind!

Chris Hebbron

Kingston upon Hull Corporation Transport
1948
Daimler CV6G
Metro Cammell Weymann H55R

My thanks to Paul Morfitt an expert on K.H.C.T. for information regarding this bus.

“this bus entered service on the 10th June 1961 and was withdrawn in December 1966. It came from Newcastle to cover parts of the trolleybus conversions”

Does anyone have any information of this bus whilst it was at Newcastle?

These ex Newcastle Daimlers were notable for their Birmingham style bodies. Compare this photo with any HOV ### registered Birmingham City Transport Daimler. I think Edinburgh also had some like this.

Simon Avery

To see a Birmingham Daimler registration HOV 845 click here

I think that "timeless elegance" describes this classic style of body – with just a quiet air of superiority. I loved to see them in Hull, where they fitted in perfectly with the Corporation Transport Department’s image. What a magical combination arose from the KHCT and EYMS fleets in those days, and many thanks to the RAF for sending me to Patrington (Spurn Point) for my two years National Service – I couldn’t have asked for anything better.

Chris Youhill

All the second hand Regents, and Daimlers too, were bought for two reasons, firstly, as Paul said, was to facilitate trolleybus replacement, although memory seems to tell me that the Coronation trolleybuses on the 63 (Beverley Road) service were replaced directly by the early Atlanteans.  Secondly, as already noted Hull lost 2/3rds of the fleet due to air raids on 7/8th May, 1941; consequently there were large batches of Regents acquired in the post war period, as replacements. Thus in the 1960’s a large number of Regents were nearing the end of their lives, and KHCT was in the process of introducing OMO to its fleet, having a planned purchasing plan for a large number of Atlanteans which was spread over a period of some 10 years. The various batches of second hand buses were basically stop-gaps until the end of the OMO conversion. Incidentally KHCT was the first Municipal operator to achieve 100% OMO operation on both saloons and ‘deckers. This was achieved in 1972.

Keith Easton

Further to my previous comment, the losses due to Luftwaffe exploits over Hull only 1/3rd of the fleet was lost (actually 35% – 44 vehicles).

Keith Easton

03/08/11 – 16:04

These old Newcastle Daimler were great buses – had preselector gearboxes as well – they were painted dark blue and often had a blue light on next to the destination board!
Travelled a lot in them in the early 1940ties!
My favourites were FVK 198 through to FVK 201!

Stui Beveridge

04/08/11 – 07:18

What was the purpose of the blue light, Stui?

Chris Hebbron

02/10/11 – 14:05

When the Daimlers first appeared local enthusiasts thought them old fashioned mainly due to the curious windscreen arrangement (130 with a Roe body was an honourable exception) – they did not compare with the contemporary Hull Regent IIIs or the EYMS PD1s.
Authority to buy was obtained in May 1961 with a bid limit of £205 per vehicle. There is no mention in the report specifically regarding trolleybus replacement although. My own view is that they were to cover the bodywork problems on the Regent IIIs which were such that the department couldn’t cope and many went to Roe for attention. No buses were withdrawn as a result of their arrival.
Mr Pulfrey had said in May 1960 that he expected the Chanterlands Avenue route to be replaced in 1960 using spare standard 58 seat buses. The 1961 timetable did not mention services 61/65 but included replacements 13/23 but not until July 1962 did that conversion take place.

Malcolm Wells

15/03/12 – 09:30

Hi Chris, sorry for the delay as we are out and about in retirement living mainly in Düsseldorf but in winter on Gran Canaria!
Strangely – the purpose of the blue light next to the front destination board was to show at night they were so called " Blue buses " and not the new fangled bright yellow trolley buses.
Just loved travelling on these buses – favourite routes were 1 and 2 – Denton Burn / Cochrane Park / Scrogg Road etc and yes – they were quite advanced as they had pre-selector gearboxes which made life easier for the drivers.
It was wartime and the buses were very often completely packed in the rush hours or when it was pouring with rain – even upstairs – as the unions at that time had no influence on passengers carried!
Upstairs was then a disaster as the passengers were all soaking wet and damp and it was full of smokers and their gaspers! Players Please or Senior Service were favourites and poor dock workers building warships like George V or so sufficed with a cheap 5 fag paper pack of Woodbines!
Has anyone relatives or friends with any decent old Newcastle street scenes showing all these marvellous blue and yellow buses and the dark maroon trams?
Lets have your comments here please?

Stui Beveridge

16/03/12 – 08:38

Thx for the ‘blue light’ v yellow trolleybus explanation, Stui. I assume that there was an extraordinarily large part of the local populace who were colour-blind and/or deaf, not being able to detect the different noise level between the two! Seriously, it’s not commonly known that London trams had three small lights above the destination screen, so that combinations could indicate which route they were on, for the illiterate. Other systems had this, too, with some having different coloured liveries for different routes. Not a lot of use for those like me who were colour-blind!

Chris Hebbron

16/03/12 – 09:55

As many custom car enthusiasts have found to their cost, apart from emergency and specifically exempt vehicles, under current legislation it is illegal to show a blue light that is visible on any part of the to the exterior of the vehicle ‘including the underside’

Ronnie Hoye

16/03/12 – 12:40

Wigan Corporation always had two green lights either side of the destination so that locals caught "their" bus as opposed either Ribble or LUT both of whom used red as a colour as did Wigan. This arrangement lasted until the last buses delivered to Wigan in 1972.

Chris Hough

17/03/12 – 06:18

Regarding the Hull Coronations what a crying shame that none were preserved.

Philip Carlton

23/04/13 – 07:54

I am sure there was an Atlantean at Maspalomas Gran Canaria. Is it still there?

box501

13/10/14 – 17:23

Special or even no lights? Please remember at that time these buses were originally in service between 1939 – 1945 we were in the middle of a deadly serious world war on several fronts simultaneously and had more or less total black out on the streets!
Danger of invasion was later not quite so imminent but it was still there! Life was not a pony farm and quite so funny as it is to-day under the EU and Co!
In occupied Europe life was horrific with daily trains leaving most main cities with cattle trucks packed with innocent men, women and children for the concentration camps mainly in the east!

Stuart Beveridge

14/10/14 – 06:29

I wonder if Hull Corporation would have purchased these vehicles if they had had Daimler engines?

Chris Barker

15/10/14 – 07:19

Hang on, Stuart, why the seeming rebuke? This is a site for those interested in buses, not a history one. That said, I’m sure that many of us who post are ‘of a certain age’ and fully aware of the war, maybe even lived through it, as I did. I lost an uncle in both wars and years of working a 6.5 day week, in munitions work, killed my father prematurely. Knowledge of the Holocaust would not be unfamiliar to us, either.

Chris Hebbron