Photograph by ‘unknown’ if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

East Midland Motor Services 
1958
Leyland Tiger Cub PSUC1/2
Willowbrook DP41F

Not an operator I know very much about but on researching this particular vehicle it would appear that it started its life with a fleet number of C40. I have come across a photo of XRR 535 C35 which was in a livery of all Cream with a single coloured band below the window did this vehicle start life as cream coach? I am not sure what their prefix fleet letters stood for ‘C’ For coach ‘D’ for double decker I can guess at but ‘R’ ‘O’ ‘L’ which were for single deckers do not mean much to me. If you know please leave a comment. It would appear that East Midland at one time had a livery of Chrome Yellow for the body, Cream for the lower saloon windows and Chocolate for the upper saloon windows and roof I bet that looked good, has anyone seen a colour shot. The livery at the time that the shot above was taken was Dark Red and Cream but that changed to Dark Green in the early seventies.

I recall the original livery which was very distinctive! It was almost art deco- very thirties- and then went into a sort of drab utility maroon. The green was presumably NBC….?

Joe

I vaguely remember these vehicles from my Sheffield childhood (on the Derbyshire border, towards Chesterfield).
I quite liked the maroon and cream – because I was not then aware of the original livery, which had disappeared by the time I was old enough to be aware of these things. It is possible that this livery was derived from that of Underwoods – the firm which became East Midland under BET control. The original livery adorned a RM in the short time that they plied the roads of Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire.
Over a period of time – in BET times – East Midland became joint owner, along with Yorkshire Traction and North Western, of one of the greatest coach tour operators – nearby Sheffield United Tours.
East Midland became one of my favourite operators – which I used regularly – and I was sad when NBC leaf green replaced the drab maroon. This was especially so when my favourite (J – M) registered RE coaches lost their cream and maroon for NBC corporate livery.

David Oldfield

In 1977, long before the RM already mentioned, East Midland repainted an Alexander bodied Fleetline in the old brown/cream/yellow livery to commemorate their 50th anniversary. One of the 1965 batch, but can’t recall which one. It should also be mentioned that the famous bus photographer Roy Marshall (who once worked in Nottingham and was thus familiar with EMMS’s original livery) later became the General Manager of Burnley & Pendle and adopted the same colour scheme for several of that Lancashire undertaking’s vehicles including some Y-type bodied Leopards and at least one VRT3/ECW double-decker.
Going off at a slight tangent, Roy Marshall also did a stint as the boss of Gelligaer UDC’s fleet and when he moved to East Staffordshire (Burton-on-Trent Corporation as it used to be) he repainted this Midland fleet in Gelligaer’s old livery of green, red, and white – a vast improvement over the gloomy maroon and cream previously used by Burton.
Does anybody know of any further examples where migrating General Managers have ‘taken the livery with them’?

Neville Mercer

Can’t remember which way round it was but Halifax and Glasgow shared a livery due to a demonstrator in one fleet being borrowed by the operator who liked the livery and adopted it themselves.
There is also the apocryphal story of legal action when someone saw the old Bostock’s livery, liked it, adopted it and upset Bostock’s.

I also vaguely remember the Fleetline, now that Neville mentions it.

Trivia: Can anyone explain why, with a head office in Chesterfield, all East Midland buses had Nottinghamshire registrations?

David Oldfield

The 1965 edition of BBF5 says that the R prefix was for 30-foot long dual purpose vehicles, but that can’t be right because it shows all the bus-seated 30-footers with R prefixes as well. L meant long – i.e. 36 feet.
Joining Neville on his tangent for a moment, did Geoffrey Hilditch once set up a coach fleet at Aberdare using Halifax livery? Or did I dream that? The memory does feel very much like a dream . . .

Peter Williamson

According to the Prestige Series book on East Midland (excellent B&W photographs by G H F Atkins; text by John Banks) the old livery was derived from United, who abandoned it in 1930 in favour of red and cream. The company was originally W T Underwood of Clowne, but with strong backing from United (virtually a subsidiary).

As for the alpha-numeric number series, the type-series letter seems to have been allocated in a rather haphazard fashion. Note that only the single-deckers were distinguished in this way. All of the double-deckers were just series D, irrespective of chassis or body manufacturer.

However, unravelling the tangle it seems this is how it went for the single deckers (Are you sitting comfortably? Then I shall begin…) :

G – 50 x ADC 416A (Short Bros.) 1927 – series allocated to EM by United
M – 10 x AEC Reliance (Lowestoft – later ECW) 1929 – series allocated to EM by United
N – 10 x AEC Regal (Short Bros) 1930 (some rebodied 1939 with Leyland bodies taken from 1935 TS7s, i.e. type B)
L – 20 x AEC Regal (Brush) 1931 (of which 3 were coaches, designated LC)
L – ? x AEC Regal 4 (Brush) 1933-34
C – 5 x Leyland KP2 Cub 1934
B – 20 x Leyland TS7 (10 Brush; 10 Leyland) 1935 (4 Brush rebodied 1949 by Willowbrook re-designated type N)
B – 14 x Leyland TS7 (5 Brush; 1 Burlingham coach; 8 Leyland) 1936
E – 30 x Leyland TS7 (ECW dual purpose) 1937 (6 rebodied 1948 by Willowbrook re-designated type N)
F – 11 x Leyland TS7 (ECW bus) 1938
A – 10 x AEC Regal (Weymann) 1946
A – 14 x AEC Regal III (Third-hand ! Leyland bodies)  1947-48 (rebodied 1952 by Willowbrook and re-designated type K)
AC – 2 x AEC Regal III (Windover coach) 1948
H – ? x AEC Regal III (Weymann) 1949
J – ? x AEC Regal III (Willowbrook) 1950
R – All underfloor engine buses from 1952-62 (all Leyland chassis)
C (Second time round) – All underfloor engine coaches and dual-purpose from 1954 onwards.
L – ? x Leyland Leopard buses from 1963 (Willowbrook)
O – ? x Bristol buses from 1969 (ECW)

N (Second time round!) – various re-bodies (see above) also 10 second hand Leyland TS7s purchased from YWD 1949 and subsequently re-bodied by Willowbrook.

Please note that this is not comprehensive, and takes no account of vehicles absorbed through takeover. There were certainly 5 x Bristol L5G (ECW) in 1938 and 2 x Bedford WTB (Duple) in 1939, for which no type letter is quoted.

Stephen Ford

Someone mentioned East Midland having a Fleetline in the old brown livery. This was in fact an Atlantean PD1/2 fleet no D177 registration BNN 177C.
Chesterfield corporation also had Nottingham registrations as well.

Alan Ridge

Chesterfield Corporation had NU and RA registrations – Derbyshire CC.

David Oldfield

R – All underfloor engine buses from 1952-62 (all Leyland chassis)
Some of these were in fact AEC chassis and the last 3 R496 R497 & R498 were AEC chassis and the same bodies as the L400 (400 RRR) series Leylands.
The O series were one batch of AEC Swifts O501 to O510. (NAL 501F to 505F then OAL 506F to 510F) Marshall Bodies,
Bristol RE’s with single doors. O511 to O522. ECW.
Bristol RE’s with single doors. O523 to O532. I think these had Marshall Bodies, I know that they had a strange 3 X 2 arrangement for the rear two rows of seats.
Bristol RE’s with single doors. O533 to O541. Leyland engines and Marshall bodies. I have not heard any news of it, but CRR 537J O537 was preserved, somewhere around Derby.
Bristol RE’s with Dual doors. O542 to O556. ECW bodies. I think O545 was the last red and cream East Midland bus, around 1975/6

Ian Couzens

10/07/12 – 06:44

The question raised about registration numbers being issued in Nottinghamshire. It was from the days of the head office being in Worksop. Why on moving to Chesterfield it was not changed I don’t know. Hope this helps/ Don’t forget Clowne was also head office prior to Worksop.

Ian Bennett

10/07/12 – 09:17

In response to Nevilles question above re migrating General Managers. When Vane-Morland moved from Walsall to Leeds he brought their blue livery with him prior to this the trams and buses were yellow and white or a deep Prusian blue rather than the flatter slate blue that became standard in the thirties.

Chris Hough

26/07/12 – 07:44

The vehicle in the above photograph was taken over the pit at Worksop bus garage on Allen Street Worksop.

Mr Anon

26/10/12 – 07:06

For those youngsters, who were deprived of the EMMS chocolate etc livery, I have appended some links to modern day efforts to replicate the livery.
www.flickr.com/photos/manofyorkshire/
www.flickr.com/photos/
www.flickr.com/photos/guy_arab_uf/
www.flickr.com/photos/deltrems/

John Darwent

12/07/16 – 07:29

Can anyone remember how many routes East Midland had that ran into Pond Street Sheffield in the 70s, there was number 3 from Mansfield, number 46 from Clowne via Killamarsh, number 18 from Eckington, and there was also an EM bus from Gainsbrough.

Big Jim

04/04/17 – 07:15

You’re right about the 3 and 46. There was also the long-established 99 to Chesterfield via Ford and Staveley. Also in the 60s and until 1971 there was the 62/64 to Chesterfield via Eckington. These were joint with Chesterfield and Sheffield JOC.
By 1971 there was also the X53, which was an extended express version of the 3. This ran to Nottingham via Mansfield and was joint with Trent.
The Gainsborough route was the 85 – originally a Sheffield ‘C’ fleet (railways-owned) route but which became a joint Sheffield/East Midland/Lincolnshire route when the British Railways interest in the Sheffield B and C fleets ended.

John May

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

19/07/17 – 11:00

Just been told that the old EMMS bus garage at Retford was demolished in 1992,in the 70s it held a fleet of 25 buses and coaches, Worksop is now the last remaining original depot.

Big Jim

Photograph by ‘unknown’ if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Pennine Motor Services
1953
Leyland Royal Tiger PSU1/13
Leyland B44F

This photo first appeared on the ‘Do You Know’ page of this website and thanks go to David Oldfield and Dave Farrier for the following information. Pennine Motor Services were and still are a small independent operating in the lower part of the Yorkshire Dales, They originally had their depot in the small village of Gargrave which is about 5 miles north west of Skipton. That depot has now been demolished to make way for an housing estate and they currently use the old Ribble Motor Services depot which is at the bottom of the Coach Street car park in Skipton (see Tony Youngs comment below). They were always a Leyland operator with a mix of buses and coaches more often than not bought brand new. In later years, PSU3 Leopard/Willowbrook Duel Purposes were bought, before deregulation. That was the beginning of the end when they went over to second-hand Leyland Nationals. Their current fleet is 13 step-entry Dennis Darts.

In the early seventies Pennine expanded by taking over Ezra Laycock of Barnoldswick. Prior to the advent of the Nationals the fleet was made up of Plaxton bodied Leyland Leopards bought from a variety of sources. They also for a very brief time had a pair of Leyland Swifts which were quickly sold and they are one of a handful of operators who do not have any low floor buses in their fleet.

Chris Hough

Coach Street car park building is now a Marks & Spencer store. Pennine Depot is now in another former Ribble Depot on Broughton Road Skipton.

David Clarke

Did I read somewhere recently that – 24 years after deregulation – Pennine is coming under attack on one of its routes (maybe Burnley)? Let’s hope it doesn’t spell the end for this operator.

Dave Towers

31/03/11 – 15:43

Pennine now have 3 low floor buses, Dennis Dart SLF Plaxton Pointer, ex-Bus Eireann, numbered D17 – D19.
To correct information above, the Pennine depot in Skipton was near the High Street Car park on Jerry Croft, not Coach Street Car park which is on the other side of the town centre. The new Marks & Spencer food store is on the site of the former depot, accessed via Jerry Croft from the High Street.
Pennine are indeed facing strong competition from Transdev who are now competing with the 215 between Skipton and Burnley via Earby and Barnoldswick. Pennine have a good reputation in Skipton and are part of the local scene. We can’t afford to lose them.

Tony Young

04/04/11 – 07:11

The Pennine depot is in the former Ribble depot at Broughton Road which was built by Old Ben Bus Services taken over by Ribble. Afterwards it became a textile Mill and then back to being a bus depot.

Philip Carlton

16/04/11 – 05:00

My recollection is that the current Pennine Depot in Skipton spent some time in use by a tyre and exhaust retailer after closure by Ribble.

Jonathan Cadwallader

14/06/11 – 08:52

I note with sadness that Norman Simpson, the leading light of Pennine Motors, passed away earlier this month. I worked at Craven District Council from its inception in 1974 until 1988, and public transport became part of my remit. Mr Simpson was, of course, one of my councillors too! We had an excellent working relationship, not least of all because of his innate courtesy, and his clear understanding of the respective (and respected) roles of elected members and salaried officers. And this was despite our being some way apart philosophically on the issue of the role of the public sector in public transport planning and support!

Richard Tulloch

19/07/11 – 17:14

I made a comment above, subsequently expanded on by Tony, about the competition from Transdev. Having a day off last week I decided to go and have a look for myself. I am originally from Lancaster and recall as a young spotter in the 1960s seeing Pennine buses in my home area, but I had never actually made a journey on one of them. Anyway, the situation is that Pennine run an hourly service to Burnley (215) whereas Transdev run two services (29/30) one via Earby and one via Barnoldswick, whereas the Pennine route covers both of these towns. The Transdev routes leave at XX:00 and XX:30 and the Pennine departs Skipton at XX:05. On my journey at 11:05 the driver issued 21 tickets and on the return at 13:25, 24 tickets, although most were for concessionaries. I would suggest that 3 journeys per hour is certainly "overbussed" but noted whilst in Burnley that Pennine also run extra 215s as short-workings from Burnley to Barnoldswick only; the one I saw leaving Burnley at 12:55 was completely empty. Presumably these extras are Pennine’s way of striking back. From Pennine’s timetable several of their buses actually terminated in the evening at Barnsoldswick so presumably they have a small garage/outstation there. Can anyone confirm?

Dave Towers

17/10/11 – 06:00

Before retiring I owned a radiator rebuilding business in Earby and was proud to have Norman Simpson of Pennine as a regular customer. My recollection was that they tended to buy well used Leyland coaches, rebuild them and put into service. This was of course very good for trade! They did indeed have a garage in Barnoldswick, Gas works Rd if I remember, big enough for about 4 vehicles, one coach stored there was a Royal Tiger about 1950, motor show exhibit, lots of chrome—I never saw it move. They also had a stop, outside I think at Settle—-I recall a drunk stealing a coach for a lift home one night. Not bus related, but Norman Simpson always favoured big Citroen cars.

Colin Newby

29/01/12 – 17:51

Superb machine. The photo looks like the work of the late great Bob Mack

Tony Greig

17/04/12 – 14:09

In reply to Colin, MTC 757 (the bus version) and MTD 235 (the coach version) were regular visitors to Lancaster. It’s MTD 235 which spent several years in store in the garage in Barnoldswick, and is now at Broughton Road. Sadly, in respect of both vehicles, my black and white prints are long gone.

Pete Davies

25/04/14 – 11:54

Very sadly Pennine will cease operations on 16th May 2014. This is a combination of Mainline competition on the Burnley route and low concession rate from NYCC on the busy 580 Skipton Giggleswick Route. This was a complete surprise as Pennine now have all but three Darts Low floor access and another one just purchased ready for painting. A very sad event after 88 years.

Chris Wright

25/04/14 – 14:27

Damnation. Aside from the social and business consequences of the closure, the countryside will lose one of the more unique liveries on the street scene.

Orla Nutting

20/05/14 – 08:37

The very last public journey was the 21:15 Skipton to Settle, operated by Dennis Dart D8 (KU52 RYG). Here’s a less than perfect shot taken just after it had been reversed into the small Settle depot. The vehicle on the left (D18, W948 ETW) had actually been back at depot for almost four hours, but D8’s driver made a point of switching on its lights for the benefit of the assembled enthusiasts. //s1318.photobucket.com/  Also shown is a daytime shot of the Settle depot, which, as can be seen, is for sale, as is the Barnoldswick depot. The Settle depot, particularly, strikes me as a potentially nice discreet home for a couple of preserved single deckers – 36-footers can be accommodated, but no bigger.

David Call

21/05/14 – 17:44

RIP – Pennine Motor Services.

Stephen Howarth

22/05/14 – 07:19

Indeed Stephen. Very sad.

David Oldfield

24/05/14 – 08:25

I’ve only just come back from a few days around the Yorkshire Dales, basing ourselves at Skipton. Only yesterday, a wet day, we passed a building and glimpsed the rear of two parked Pennine buses poking out. It was not convenient to stop, although I wished I’d been able to. Although I’m not good at colours, I thought they were orange and black and it looked a very passable livery.
Sad indeed, as you all say.

Chris Hebbron

26/05/14 – 12:09

Re Philips Carlton’s comment of 4.4.11, according to the "Commercial Motor" of January 1st 1929, the original owner of Pennine’s Broughton Road garage was the "Old Bill" service owned by W. Wisemall not the Old Ben service.

Nigel Turner

26/05/14 – 13:56

Nigel, I don’t know anything really about the origins of the building, but in the 1960s the nearby filling station was definitely known as "Old Bill Motors."

Chris Youhill

26/05/14 – 15:44

Having had a further look round the internet it seems that the owner of "Old Bill" was William Wiseman not Wisemall. The Commercial Motor stated that he was going to continue his existing haulage business. Pennine have now advertised the premises for rent at £40,000 per annum.

Nigel Turner

26/05/14 – 16:58

Reading the latest posts on the Pennine closure and "Old Bill", reminded me that I had these photos of William Wiseman original garage and its later replacement both on Broughton Road, Skipton. Is this still the Pennine depot?Photographer unknown.

Mike Davies

26/05/14 – 17:51

Old Bill’s depot is nothing like the current Pennine depot however the house in the background looks very much like the second house in Gisburn Street which is by the side of the Pennine depot.

Nigel Turner

26/05/14 – 17:51

Another of Mikes shot if it helps.

Peter

27/05/14 – 06:49

With the aid of Google Maps, the second photo confirms the location, the houses in the background are in Marton Street and behind that is "Marton Mills" which seems to have lost a few stories but the chimney is still there.

Nigel Turner

27/05/14 – 06:50

I think you’d better ignore what I said above (20/5) about the Settle depot being suitable for housing two preserved single deckers – from what I’ve seen of the going rates for sale/letting, it would be unaffordable! It’s a nice little depot, though, all the same.

David Call

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

07/09/15 – 07:11

Such a shame that Pennine have stopped for good. I loved riding on their Dennis Plaxton buses. It’s been over a year since they ceased operations, but they are still missed. They were that extra bus that you got if it happened to come while you were waiting at the bus stop. They were buses you could depend on to get from A to B with no fuss. Sure they were a few drawbacks vs the more popular Transdev buses, but many more benefits.
The main drawback of the bus service was the limited frequency of buses – only 1 an hour. Compare that to Transdev’s 8 an hour along the mainline route. I bet many avoided catching Pennine’s buses because if they bought a return ticket, they could only use it on Pennine’s buses which were too few for the popular route between Colne and Burnley. That is why it was mainly used by pensioners as they did not have to worry about fares.
However the fares were cheaper on Pennine’s buses than Transdev’s for the same journey, so it was still probably cheaper to get a Pennine bus one way and a Transdev bus back, than get a Transdev return.
Another thing is that it was a quicker journey than Transdev not just because the bus had fewer passengers, but also because the bus did not hang around for long at the bus station unlike Transdev. The buses were also far more punctual than Transdev’s. I can’t recall a single time when Pennine’s buses were late. Transdev’s buses are more often late than on-time. Sometimes they are terribly late for no apparent reason at quiet times. Sometimes the bus is at the bus station due to depart but the driver is nowhere to be seen! This never happened with Pennine.
A few months after Pennine folded, Moving People came along but their buses are very infrequent. They run only a few a day. I’ve only been on one of their buses twice so far because I so rarely see them. They have started a new J12 service which passes Junction 12 of the M65 (but all the buses on the main road do so why they called it that there’s no point). It goes to Burnley but diverts at Casterton Avenue and goes past the hospital and rejoins the main road at Duke Bar.
So Moving People are hardly a replacement for Pennine. They don’t run any buses to Barnoldswick or Skipton. So far there is still a gap that has not been filled by the departure of Pennine and I feel that gap will still be there for some time to come.

Jimmy

Stockton-on-Tees Corporation
1965
Leyland Panther Cub PSRC1/1
Park Royal B43D

Not the best shot in the world I think it was the first shot on the film and suffered from a touch of light getting into the cassette. Anyway there are not many shots of duel entrance vehicles on site so I think it is worth showing. The engine on the Panther was positioned horizontally under the floor at the rear and inline with the chassis as apposed to the Atlantean which had a transverse vertically mounted engine. As can be seen in the above shot the seats behind the centre door had to be raised to go over the rear axel and engine compartment. But having the engine at the rear did as can be seen enable it to have a very low step into the vehicle all though there is a step up immediately behind the driver. The coach version of the Panther had a one level raised floor but with having the engine at the rear it meant it had 120 cubic foot (3·4 cu.m.) underfloor storage for suitcases and the like. The engine was the reliable Leyland O.600 six cylinder diesel developing 125 b.h.p. in the bus chassis and 130 b.h.p. in coaches with a four speed epicycle gearbox with fingertip electric change and air suspension was offered as an option.

———

I know you are not meaning to mislead, but you haven’t mentioned that the Panther Cub (as opposed to the Panther) had the well regarded, but noisy, 0.400 engine.
This was the final version of the 0.300/0.350/0.375 Comet/Tiger Cub engine. The 0.400 was better known in the Bedford VAL/VAM14 and Bristol LH applications. It was necessary to fit this compact unit to the Panther Cub as it has a shorter rear overhang than the Panther.
The power output, at 125 b.h.p, was the same as the 0.600 but the torque (pulling power) and therefore potential life span was less.

David Oldfield