Copyright Ian Wild

Sheffield Corporation
1947
Leyland Titan PD2/1
Leyland H30/26R

This is an all Leyland (H30/26R) PD2/1 of the first batch of 20 delivered to Sheffield in October 1947. These were withdrawn between 1963 and 1965 but then nine of them were reinstated and lasted until 1966. In May 1966 The Leeds and District Transport News came to Sheffield in Leeds 380, another PD2/1 with an early Farington style Leyland body and the two buses were used on a tour of Sheffield routes. I joined the tour in Sheffield and I still remember how the Sheffield bus left the Leeds vehicle standing on some of the Sheffield hills that were encountered. I always had a soft spot for these reinstated buses and 545 looks a fine sight at nearly 19 years old climbing Greystones Road on the South Western side of the City. In Sheffield in those days 18/19 year old buses were something of a rarity. The bus looks to have been ‘bulled up’ by the Leadmill Road Depot for the occasion but still reflects the high standard maintained by Sheffield City Transport.

A full list of Titan codes can be seen here.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

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Yes, Ian, they were long lived – 13 being the average age before withdrawal of STD buses. These were exceptionally long lived – even more so those which had a second life as driver trainers in all over blue. [But do I remember trainers being grey before that?]
I never rode "in service" on these but did the swimming run from Greenhill to Heeley Baths and games run from King Edward’s at Broomhill to either Trap Lane (Bents Green) or Castle Dyke (Ringinglow).

Superb picture by the way.

David Oldfield

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NNW 380 became number 13 in the LCT Driving School, and when I applied for a job as a "direct" driver I took my test in it – at 5.00 pm in the Leeds City Centre rush hour. It behaved like a dream and after a couple of miles, at Tommy Wass in Dewsbury Road, the Senior Instructor said "Yes OK, straight back to Swinegate then." I was enjoying the vehicle very much and said so – Mr. Albert Bradley, a gentleman if ever there was one, said "Oh, OK then – carry on round the Ring Road and through Belle Isle and Hunslet first." It comes as no surprise to me that the Sheffield vehicle did better on the hills. I am not an engineer but it was common knowledge that LCT engines were "cut down" to save fuel. I’m sure this was a much misguided policy, as it undoubtedly resulted in ferocious, wicked and expensive vehicle abuse from a goodly proportion of disinterested drivers who were never brought to book – drivers who would boast of "being a fast man" and "I never come off late" etc etc – a reprehensible attitude, and one which allowed (and still does) operators to impose totally impossible and arguably illegal running times. I mustn’t get carried away with this latter subject because I could write a book with graphic illustrations of the scandal.

Chris Youhill

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Thanks for the comment David.
The only one of the 1947 PD2s that was a driver trainer in mainly blue livery with two cream bands was D2 KWA 552 although it was later repainted in standard cream and blue. (I have photos of it in both schemes). The others were turned out in the standard cream/blue livery from the outset of their spell as trainers The trainers used prior to these were the 1948 Crossley/Northern Coachbuilders deckers which were certainly in mainly blue colours.
I can recall earlier trainers in grey – wonder if this was something to do with the wartime colours? I have a photo of ex 474 HWA 384 which looks to be all over one colour (grey?) and also one of ex 340 EWA 540 which is in a dark colour with cream window surrounds. Other than these I don’t have any evidence of grey liveried trainers. Does this help?

Ian Wild

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Did remember the Crossley/NCBs but also wondered whether the grey had anything to do with using up war-time paint stocks. Thanks Ian.

David Oldfield

Copyright P J Marshall

Portsmouth Corporation
1939
Leyland Cheetah LZ4
Wadham B32R

Portsmouth Corporations fleet number 46 was the last of a batch of 6 Leyland LZ4 Cheetahs, 41-46 (BTP 941-946), with locally-built Wadham bodywork, new in 1939. 41 and 42 were withdrawn in 1941, after suffering war damage. This view of 46 at Eastney Depot was taken about 1954 when the remaining four of them were withdrawn from service and were awaiting disposal. Note the sad appearance, bald front tyres and single wheels only on the rear! Although I only holidayed in Portsmouth and Southsea from 1949-1956, I never recall ever seeing these buses in service.
Note the bus is surrounded by some of the nine 1944 Duple-bodied utility Daimler CWA6’s of which virtually no photos seem to exist. In 1959, the chassis were thoroughly overhauled and they were despatched to be re-fitted with Crossley bodies, some of the last Crossley bodies built, only to be scrapped in 1965! With only nine pre-selective gear change vehicles in the fleet, they were greatly abused, with inexperienced drivers using the gear change pedal as a clutch pedal, with lots of juddering. As a visiting Londoner, living in the Daimlerland Merton/Sutton area, it made me cringe!

Photograph and Copy contributed by Chris Hebbron

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The Cheetahs were bought for the Southsea Sea Front Service, but of course this ceased in September 1939. The bodies had sunshine roofs and a total of six destination screens to inform the tourists of the attractions on the route. The bodies were reportedly heavy for the lightweight chassis, which was fine for a ride down the promenade, but a problem on normal services.After the war they were used on peak time specials when the fleet was understrength, but very little else. Interestingly there is a record of No.43 running on mileage equalisation duties on Southdown Service 138 from Fareham to Cosham over Portsdown Hill. That would have tested its Leyland 4.7 litre engine.

Pat Jennings

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It’s true the bus behind is one of the CWA6/Duples, as all nine were withdrawn in 1954 to go to Crossley for new bodies, being returned in 1955. Thus they did 11 years with original, and 11 years as rebodied, being withdrawn in 1965/66. But those at the side of the Cheetah are Craven-bodied TD4s of the 131-160 batch. These would be either early withdrawals, or set aside for a work-shop rebuild. CPPTD carried out a lot of rebuilding work on the Cravens bodied TD4s and the trolleybuses from c. 1949-1957/58, although not every member of these batches received such work.

Michael Hampton

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I agree with ‘Michael Hampton’ with regards to the re-bodying of the ‘Daimler CWA6’. A rather elderly Bus Book I have from 1963 states that they were re-bodied in 1955 by Crossley.
I think it would have been a lot to ask, that a Double Deck ‘Utility’ body last fifteen years, (unless heavily rebuilt), with the dreadful quality Wartime materials allowed by the ‘Ministry of Supplies’ for Bus Bodies. Even the paint allowed was little better than ‘coloured water’!!
Credit must be give to ‘C.P.P.T.D’ for managing to keep the Utility bodies in service for eleven years. Before the eventual & inevitable – re-bodying process.

John

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Does anyone have a photo of the CWA6’s as re-bodied? I can’t think of any Crossley bodied Daimlers (with exposed radiators that is).

Chris Barker

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Oldham had fifteen Crossley-bodied CVD6 (322-336) and Manchester had fifty CVG5 with their characteristic body (4000-4049). Also Lancaster had a solitary (I think) CWG5 rebodied by Crossley.
However, it is possible you are thinking of the later Park Royal-designed Crossley body and I have to say I can’t think of any other examples.

David Beilby

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No, actually I was thinking of the earlier type of Crossley body of the style with the stepped rear windows, which may be called ‘true’ Crossley bodies. The Portsmouth fleet list on Classic Bus Links states that they were re-bodied in 1959, very late for a wartime chassis to be treated, I thought that T Burrows ex London Daimlers were the last to receive new bodies in 1957. Anyone know which date is correct? If it was 1959 as stated by Chris Hebbron above, they would of course have had the Park Royal style of body, still worth seeing with the exposed radiator and strange if they only lasted six years as such.

Chris Barker

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Chris Barker – I will post a photo of a re-bodied Daimler shortly. They were pleasant enough, but nothing like any other Crossley bodies I’ve seen. What I’m actually after is a photo of one of them BEFORE they were re-bodied! Such photos are be very rare. Any holders of one out there?

Chris Hebbron

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The date of 1959 cannot be correct for the rebodying as the Crossley factory had been closed over a year by then. In fact they entered service in September and October 1955.
It turns out there were not many batches of Daimlers bodied postwar by Crossley. In addition to those I listed the remaining ones were the nine Portsmouth examples, 250 for Birmingham (2776-2900 and 3103 to 3227) and 35 for Aberdeen (175-204 and 210-214).

David Beilby

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Thank you, David, for clarifying the revised date to 1955. I, too, took the Classic Bus Link date of 1959.
I notice that Birmingham’s Daimler CVG6 3225 survives and the Crossley bodywork gives only the merest nod to their standard Corporation design!

Chris Hebbron

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Chris Hebbron has actually sent me a shot of a Portsmouth Crossley rebodied exposed radiator Daimler CWA6 it will be posted in its own right Wednesday 19th January.

Peter

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Photograph by D W K Jones Permission to publish granted by Capital Transport Publishing

London Transport
1932
Leyland Titan TD2
Birch H30/26R

In my first supplementary comment on the London Transport low-bridge Daimlers with Duple bodies (posted here), I said the following:
“A further look at D1’s lean-back, but ramrod-straight front, makes me recall the frontal look of the very rare 1932 Birch body. I have seen a photo of one somewhere and will try to find and upload it.”
I have now found the photo (memo to Chris – tidy up books in spare bedroom before ‘her indoors’ comes back from a few days away!) which does show an uncanny ‘austerity’ resemblance, not only at the front, but along the side, too! There are even ventilators above the downstairs windows like the Brush bodies had!
This is an interesting photo of TD 85, taken on 4th May 1935, whilst helping to carry supporters to the Rugby League Cup final at Wembley (Those of you ‘up North’ will be overjoyed at the word ‘League’! As a Southern ‘Union’ person, I am less so!
The bus was one of 30 originally owned by Birch Bros, a company which was an ‘independent’, running bus services within London. LPTB was formed on 1st July 1933, but it took almost to the declaration of war in 1939 before it had finally swallowed up all the independents. Birch Bros., however, succumbed in early 1934. When the bus was taken into stock, it was painted into LGOC/London Transport livery, but there was still a debate about what would be put on the vehicles’ sides. As a result, re-painted buses continued to have GeneraL applied, and it was some years before LONDON TRANSPORT appeared universally. Legally, though, you can see the four words making up LPTB in full, on the bottom front edge. LPTB’s pre-war TD class was the largest of all which came from the ‘independents’, only being disposed of in 1939. Many of those not scrapped went to Liverpool, being painted grey, as were all buses which ran to or by ‘sensitive’ places such as munitions works and military installations. Oil-engined TD85, however, went to an operator in Essex, finally being scrapped in late 1949. Shame!
Because Birch Bros. also ran express services from Kings Cross to Rushden (Northants), they were immune from total LPTB takeover, much to the latter’s chagrin! ! In fact, Birch Bros only finally shut down in 1971, suffering from the all-too-common fall in passenger numbers.

Bus tickets issued by this operator can be viewed here.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Chris Hebbron

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What an incredibly interesting and historically informative picture and text Chris for which I thank you. I know that what I am about to say is pure coincidence and cannot be the case, but one can’t help feeling sure that the Ministry of Supply MUST have seen this photo when drawing up their "utility" WW2 specification. Just one of those little cases which make the in depth study of passenger transport so utterly absorbing.

Chris Youhill

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They must have seen it, otherwise it’s too much of a coincidence. Has the Duple look – later Birch bodies were not so balanced or handsome. The rear profile, upstairs, has a whiff of (pre-war) Weymann and a shred of Sheffield (built during the war to peacetime standards in the Tramway workshops).

David Oldfield

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Glad you found this absorbing, Chris, and agree it could almost have been a template for the austerity design.
One little aside is the use of stencils in the rooftop box. Imagine the problem of getting up there to change the route number every time! The majority of London trams had stencilled numbers and, even at my tender age then, I could spot a number 8 the wrong way round from half a mile away, just as I’m blessed (or cursed) with the ability to spot a spelling error in the same way!

Chris Hebbron

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23/03/11 – 17:45

Thanks this was really lovely to read my father-in-law ‘Nob’ Horace Brown of Shefford used to work for the Birch Bros, driving the buses. my husband is always talking about it and trying to get a model of the bus he drove this is how I came across your details. Thank You loved it and will show nick, his dad died quite young so it would be nice to find bits out for him to keep and treasure

Mel Brown