East Yorkshire Motor Services
1960
Leyland Tiger Cub PSUC1/2
Harrington C35F

This is the pretty village of Thornton le Dale in North Yorkshire on 11th June 1968. A pair of East Yorkshire Tiger Cubs are parked up amongst the cars awaiting the return of their tour passengers. Elegant, attractive coaches enhanced by the livery and the classy gothic script fleetname.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

27/12/15 – 09:02

Thanks for posting, Ian. These vehicles appear to have carried names. The EFE model of 692 has her named as Pocklington Star.

Pete Davies

28/12/15 – 06:32

Pocklington Star still exists, it was bought last year by Richard Macallister of Sowerby Bridge

Don McKeown

28/12/15 – 06:34

So far as I know, nine of these East Yorkshire Leyland PSU1/2 Tiger Cub coaches were given names;
675 WAT 675 Humber Star
676 WAT 676 Dales Star
677 WAT 677 Wold Star
678 WAT 678 Buckrose Star
679 WAT 679 Hunsley Star
692 6692 KH Pocklington Star
693 6693 KH Holderness Star
694 6694 KH Driffield Star
695 6695 KH Middleton Star

Ron Mesure

29/12/15 – 09:34

East Yorkshire still name some of their coaches with these names.

Chris Hough

30/12/15 – 06:33

The Tiger Cub was PSUC not PSU. The EYMS ones were late examples of the PSUC1/2, the O:400 powered PSUC1/12 was introduced soon after.

Stephen Allcroft

30/12/15 – 06:33

Just one point of divergence. I would not myself describe the use of a difficult-to-read name style like this as classy! It was someone’s idea of classy perhaps, but firstly it is not Gothic in the strict sense- Old English may be better- and it commits the great sin of departing from a company house style. The great examples of a good-looking easy to read style- apart from the timeless LT Gill Sans- were Transport or Rail Alphabet used- and mostly still used- for road signs and railways. These did drag some of the bus industry into the 20th Century, but some were still using transfers from the year dot until NBC brought decent typography but awful colours to our buses. I am not a graphic designer but I know what I like!

Joe

30/12/15 – 13:58

The truth comes out! "Joe" is really a pseudonym for Ray Stenning! Happy New Year to one and all.

Neville Mercer

31/12/15 – 07:18

Joe, LT and TfL do not use Gill Sans type face. Since the formation of the L.P.T.B. in 1933, transport in London has used Johnston type face which had been used from 1916 by the predecessor companies.
Eric Gill, who was a student of Johnston, introduced the Gill Sans type face in 1928 and this has subtle differences from the Johnston one.

John Kaye

31/12/15 – 07:19

Oh! Joe. Cue ‘Eastenders’ drum effects! Happy New Year Neville and Joe – and of course wishing a Happy New Year to everyone else as well.

Brendan Smith

31/12/15 – 10:47

No, Neville, you have unmasked the wrong man. It was the butler. Or Colonel Mustard-and-Purple. I do not subscribe to the idea that liveries went wacko only recently- look at "streamlining" or those spats and swoops- but in the main the conservatism of the old big groups kept things very staid. I am really talking only of fleetnames, house styles and logos. The last Sheffield transport logo was very neat but for true minimalism, you need Doncaster Corporation: not only did the blinds tell you little else but the terminus it was coming from or going to- no route numbers- there was only a coat of arms with the motto "Comfort and Joy" (in Latin because it was Donny) which did not really fit the vibrating Utility AEC still doing valiant service.

Joe

01/01/16 – 07:01

I must take issue with Joe’s comment that the East Yorkshire fleetname on these vehicles "…commits the great sin of departing from a company house style."
The point here is that the company had a separate house style (or corporate identity) for the coaching part of its operations. This was not at all unusual – many of the "company" or area agreement operators used a different livery for their coaching activities. Sometimes it was just a different arrangement of the bus fleet colours (typically, a "reversed" livery), others used different colours (e.g. West Yorkshire, Eastern Counties, Crosville or Rhondda), while others also used a different style of fleetname, as East Yorkshire did – e.g. United, Western Welsh or Bristol Greyhound). Some went even further, and used a different name as well as livery for their coaching divisions, e.g. Devon General with Grey Cars or Western and Southern National with Royal Blue. The same could, of course, be said about the NBC itself. So the concept of a separate identity for the coaching business is certainly not unusual, and I certainly would not call it a "great sin". I have no doubt that the companies concerned did so for good business reasons.
As far as the font used, I would not dispute that clarity and ease of reading are important for things like destination blinds and other notices and signs. Fleetnames, however, are in a slightly different category, in that they often serve as the company logo as well, so that ease of reading is not necessarily the first priority. The NBC fleetnames were certainly bold, in some cases more so than their predecessors, but rather uninteresting as well – but I do agree that the colours were dire.

Nigel Frampton

01/01/16 – 07:01

Can not agree about a difficult to read fleet name as I think my pic of 677 on 24 August 1968 in the Coach Station demonstrates.

Malcolm Wells

03/01/16 – 16:19

In the early 1960’s, I worked as a Conductor at Colchester ENOC depot, during vacation from College. East Yorkshire’s Harrington Tiger Cub "Pocklington Star" was a regular visitor to the depot as one of their tours overnighted at The George in Colchester. The vehicle looked quite splendid among all the Green and Cream Bristols.

Russell Howard

04/01/16 – 06:25

"NBC brought in decent typography"??? The fleet name lettering on NBC buses was unimaginative, ugly and crude, well in keeping with NBC’s centralised, blunderbus approach to many aspects of the industry. The font used was a modified bold version of Futura Bk, tidied up a bit to make the letters look more evenly spaced to the eye. NBC’s Henry Ford attitude to bus liveries – any colour you like as long as it’s red or green – negated any identification benefit that the heavy fleetname might have afforded. Like the Malvina Reynolds "Little Boxes" song, they all looked just the same, but worse – even the colour distinctions were denied. Freddie Wood’s NBC trumpeted that it was "The Biggest Bus Company In The World", and bland uniformity was the name of the game. In the days preceding NBC corporatism, fleetname styles and company colours represented the identities of individual operators, just as the logos of Kelloggs or Ford or Boots, for example, have stood the identification test of decades. You don’t require to read the lettering on a Mars Bar at sixty paces to know what you are buying, any more than bus passengers of the past needed to peer myopically at the fleetname of the local double decker before boarding the thing. The decipherability of destination blinds is a different issue altogether. It is invariably advisable to ensure that one’s travel objective is shared by the driver of the bus one is travelling on.

Roger Cox

15/04/16 – 07:12

East Yorkshire Stars: Went on a tour of the Yorkshire Dales when the whole fleet of Cavaliers were present. I seem to remember that there was a 36ft version called Bridlington Star. A one-off. Do I remember rightly?

Mike

25/10/16 – 07:00

Following up Don McKeown’s note dated 28/12/15 re Pocklington Star…..does anyone know if Richard Macallister still has it and if so how I might contact him?
I drove 692 for Eddie Brown when I was nobut a lad…am now a retired nostalgic old !!!..but I would love to see 692 again.

Dave Hollings

25/10/16 – 14:05

Regarding Roger C.’s comment about destinations. I recently got on the Stagecoach service 124 from Creigiau to Cardiff. At the Radyr roundabout the driver took a left, rather than straight on to Cardiff, at which point all the passengers pointed out the mistake. The driver’s response? " Don’t worry, I normally drive the 122, so sit back and enjoy the ride. All the buses end up in Cardiff anyway." I bet that got the computerised route monitoring system thinking!

David field

25/10/16 – 16:07

Yes, David F, but if the Traffic Commissioner’s ‘monitors’ were in the area of the 124 when it followed the 122 instead, they’d record it as a failure to run. In my experience, it is not recommended for the management or staff to upset the TC!

Pete Davies

Southport Corporation
1965
Leyland Titan PD2/40
Weymann O37/27F

New to Southport Corporation in 1965, with fleet number 54. She is a Leyland Titan PD2/40 with Weymann O64F body, converted from H64F. When Southport was absorbed into Merseyside, there was uproar among the natives, who wanted to remain in Lancashire. The place does, after all, have a Preston postcode rather than a Liverpool one! Do the residents still hold – as many in Bournemouth and Christchurch do in respect of Hampshire and Dorset – that they live in Lancashire, but Merseyside is allowed to look after certain aspects of life? We see her on Southampton’s Itchen Bridge on 6 May 1979, while taking part in the local operator’s Centenary celebrations.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

22/12/15 – 07:11

Regarding the open top Leyland currently on site, please find attached a photograph of the bus? OR an identical one. It is seen on Trans Pennine 2015 and is in the William Hunter collection.

Tracked your picture down to 154 reg, my picture is of 151 !
How many did they get?

Roy Dodsworth

22/12/15 – 08:57

Hello, Roy! Thank you for your thoughts. I’m afraid I can’t help you, as the BBF ‘Lancashire Municipal’ book I found a few years ago doesn’t include this batch. I am, however, very confident that at least one of the other readers will be able to advise us both!

Pete Davies

22/12/15 – 08:58

Take a look here //web.archive.org/web/southport3.htm

Peter

23/12/15 – 13:53

There’s almost a Beverly Bar tumble-home to CMW 151C’s upper deck glazing, distinctive I suppose.

Stephen Allcroft

24/12/15 – 06:24

Yes, Stephen, there is. I hadn’t noticed on the view of 154. Can anyone tell us if they were converted at the same time? The fleet list noted above suggests they were still H rather than O at the time of transfer to Merseyside.

Pete Davies

24/12/15 – 06:25

Oh, Southport’s resistance to Merseyside has taken many forms over the years. In bus terms red wheels were one of the first signs, then the use of municipal livery on open toppers and more recently on park and ride buses.
As for the town itself since the abolition of the county council I suspect it’s less of a problem although sharing Sefton Borough with parts rather close to Liverpool has been a problem.
I believe they managed to get Merseyside off the postal address a while back but in these days of ceremonial and postal counties and fragmented political counties it’s all a mess. I prefer to go with geographic counties which spares poor old Middlesex and puts my old home town of Widnes firmly back in Lancashire.
On the Wirral they managed to get their postcodes changed from L to CH with a positive effect on insurance premiums….

Rob McCaffery

25/12/15 – 08:05

Prior to 1974 Southport was a County Borough: County Boroughs were created in 1889, when administrative County Councils were established, for larger towns/cities for which it was felt that administrative control by the County would be inappropriate/impractical – they were abolished by Peter Walker’s Local Government Act (1972). It’s my understanding that Southport was offered the option of incorporation as a Borough within either Lancashire or the Metropolitan County of Merseyside: the former would have allowed it to retain it’s transport undertaking but would have meant responsibility for education passed to Lancashire County Council, whereas Metropolitan Boroughs retained control of education (but lost control of transport to the PTE) – clearly the Aldermen and Councillors of the County Borough of Southport knew where their priorities lay. Initially it was proposed that the 1974 County boundaries would apply solely for administrative purposes and that existing County boundaries would be retained for postal and ceremonial purposes, but . . .

Philip Rushworth

25/12/15 – 09:40

I know exactly what Philip R means! In Southampton, there were moves to have the whole of Southern Hampshire – including Portsmouth – declared a Metropolitan County, so the local districts could maintain control of Education which, otherwise, would go to ‘those idiots at the County Council’. Gosport was what was called an "Excepted District" for Education, and Fareham was only an Urban District. It was, however, pointed out that a Metropolitan County would control the buses through a PTE, so the idea was dropped in favour of keeping the buses under local control and losing the Education.

Pete Davies

31/12/15 – 07:23

Along with at least two dozen fellow enthusiasts, I spent the best part of a week in the Spring of 1988 on holiday with 0651 as our principal mode of travel, the group having hired it, with several holding PSV licenses so that we could drive it ourselves.
It was a fine week, with plenty of time spent on the upper deck in the sunshine, and I shan’t ever forget the crackling roar the old PD2 made as it pounded surefootedly up the steep Matlock Bank on the way to Chesterfield and Sheffield on the last night of the holiday. What a fine tribute that superb machine is to the designers and workers who spent their careers at the Leyland factory.

Dave Careless

31/12/15 – 12:22

Dave C, I think someone had clearly attended to the governor on your vehicle. I remember joining a tour of West Yorkshire in 1977 which used similar but earlier PD2/44 and thinking that it couldn’t pull the skin off a rice pudding! I was used to the performance of Halifax’s almost-identical vehicles and the comparison was stark. I always assumed that Southport’s were governed down severely as they only ran on very flat routes.

David Beilby

31/03/16 – 06:35

Note this vehicle up for sale as of April 2016

Roger Burdett

25/11/16 – 07:27

I was an apprentice fitter at Southport Corporation, Canning rd. Depot in the late 60’s.
The batch of buses you were asking about were numbered from 43 – 57 and they all had vacuum brakes as opposed to air brakes and manual gearboxes not semi automatics and the 01 prefix numbers were only applied after the MPTE takeover.
The later batch nos. were converted to OMO operation by moving the drivers N/S cab window outwards over the bonnet and the driver had to literally turn round to the left and face backwards to collect the fares, something of a feat even in those days!
The Drivers who opted to become OMO drivers were paid the princely sum of 3d an hour more (note not decimal pence btw) to become OMO drivers!
Mr Alan Westwell (now Dr. Alan Westwell) designed the cab window arrangement conversion when he was ‘The Rolling Stock Engineer’ at Canning Rd., note the title of RSE as opposed to Chief Engineer, as the title was from the old tramway days of long ago!
The next batch of vehicles were Leyland Panthers which were numbered from 58-70

Norman Johnstone

25/11/16 – 10:38

When London Country came into being in 1970, it, too, set up the post of RSE (Rolling Stock Engineer). He was then supplied with an Assistant, so entitled, until the unfortunate acronym thus created subsequently led to the renaming of the post as ‘Deputy’.

Roger Cox

25/11/16 – 13:14

At Derby Borough/City Transport we had a Chief Engineer (the late Gerald Truran), and, a Rolling Stock Superintendent, and an Assistant Rolling Stock Superintendent.
The latter two posts being a throw back to Trolleybus days.

Stephen Howarth

25/11/16 – 14:08

I can assure you that the title of Rolling Stock Engineer is still alive and well in the tramway field. I am one!

David Beilby

25/11/16 – 14:17

I am a volunteer at The North West Museum of Transport in St. Helens.
We are at present in the process of restoring Southport Corporation 62 a 1946 Daimler Utility CWA6 which apparently is one of only a few surviving CWA6’s with genuine wartime utility bodies by Duple.
We have just fitted a replacement AEC 7.7 engine which by all accounts are as scare to say the least.
This particular vehicle finished it’s life at Aintree Racecourse as a Stewards Bus on the racecourse when the museum acquired it many years ago.
If anyone has any more information regarding this bus please can they get in touch as we do have some very limited information on it as it is a genuine wartime utility bus bodied by Duple.

Norman Johnstone

27/11/16 – 07:40

I am glad Ronnie Cox didn’t let him convert Glasgow’s 229 forward entrance Double decks for OMO and I am sure the surviving drivers from early GG PTE days are too!

Stephen Allcroft

27/02/18 – 05:58

In the foregoing comments there is a reference to a PD2/44. I am not acquainted with such, thinking that PD2 variants ceased at No 41.
Was 44 a special to Southport?

Orla Nutting

28/02/18 – 07:41

Blame the typist!
I was wondering who would claim it was a PD2/44 then realised who wrote the post….

David Beilby

28/02/18 – 07:42

Re. Southport 62, the Utility Daimler. I was a volunteer at Steamport in Southport when 62 arrived. It was exchanged for Birkenhead 15, a PD2. It had been used as a sort of grandstand for the motor racing circuit at Aintree and was possibly a commentary position though I can’t be certain of that. When there was a clear out of some vehicles at Steamport there was a danger that it would be scrapped. Fortunately, I was able to arrange for it to be towed to the former Large Objects Store in Liverpool where it remained for some years. Upon the closure of those premises I assisted in removing the bus to a position outside the building to await removal to St Helens. During this operation 3 out of the 4 of us who were involved were attacked by cat fleas, presumably rather upset that the wild cats that had been living on the bus had fled the scene!
Good luck with the work on 62. I was impressed all those years ago that the bodywork was so solid despite it being a Utility. If it still has a lot of blue seat frames stored upstairs, they are from Birkenhead 15, not being required for its role taking over from 62.

Jonathan Cadwallader

01/03/18 – 05:59

Typo notwithstanding, it isn’t true that PD2 variants ceased at 41. In the final "rationalised" range, the former PD2A/24, PD2A/27, PD2A/30, PD2/34, PD2/37 and PD2/40 were replaced respectively by PD2A/44, PD2/47, PD2/50, PD2A/54, PD2/57 and PD2/60. However, only the PD2/47 was actually built, for St Helens, Lowestoft and Darwen.

Peter Williamson

02/03/18 – 08:13

Thanks for that. I had a nagging feeling that I’d read about the PD2/47 somewhere.

Orla Nutting

10/06/18 – 08:38

Just an update on the Southport Daimler 62.
The replacement engine has now been fitted and runs extremely well and lo & behold only a couple of months ago we actually moved 62 in the museum to another space next to where it was parked, albeit basically10ft the the right in the shunt, but it actually was ‘driven’ to the next space after well over 28 years of having no engine in it and although the brakes were shall we say not exactly functional the handbrake worked perfectly (except for the ratchet which was sticking) and so did all the pre-select gears including reverse!

Norman Johnstone

22/06/20 – 06:52

43-46 UWM43-46 Leyland PD2/40 Weymann 1961
47-50 WFY47-50 Leyland PD2/40 Weymann 1962
51-54 CWM151-154C Leyland PD2/40 Weymann 1965
55-58 GFY55-58E Leyland PD2/40 MCCW 1967
All looked identical but some detail differences: red or black radiator grilles front top deck opening vent windows or not side opening windows – some sliders, some rill type lower skirt panel near side immediately after door – some single panel with a slight curve to transition from the straight down door post to curved lower pane – some curved panel with no transition from straight down door post.

Trevor Wilson

Ramsbottom Urban District Council
1947
Leyland Tiger PS1
Roe B35R

Very few of the Urban District Councils in England and Wales had powers to operate public transport systems, and Ramsbottom was one of the smallest, with a fleet of 12 in 1965. I think Colwyn Bay may have been holder of the ‘smallest’ title. Ramsbottom was absorbed into Greater Manchester at Local Government Reorganisation in 1974, while the fleet had passed to SELNEC in 1969. HTB 656 is a Leyland Tiger PS1 from 1947 and has a Roe body of B35R layout, with door. We see her in Boyle Street Museum on 19 August 2012.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

27/11/15 – 06:27

Ramsbottom had a high number of single deckers due to a low railway bridge at Stubbins precluding the use of double deckers on the core route through from Bury to Rawtenstall. Then around 1961 the road under the bridge was lowered allowing double deckers to pass beneath for the first time. The single deckers were replaced by a fleet of Leyland PD2 and PD3 double deckers, mostly with East Lancs forward entrance bodies. The last PD3 received was the very last to be built by Leyland as the Titan model was phased out following the onset of the bus grant and one person operation. Three Leyland Royal Tigers were sold, one to Rawtenstall and two to Haslingden with whom for a time Ramsbottom shared a General Manager.

Philip Halstead

03/12/15 – 10:46

I remember the Ramsbottom PD2s and 3s very well, after Selnec took over they were all sent to Bury, by then 6401-11. 1 and 2 were rear entrance PD2s, 3 was front entrance and all the rest were PD3s, all of these had front entrance East Lancs bodies. 4 and 5 had the mounded St Helens front, as did the PD2s, apart from 1 which had the Leyland tin front, and the rest were exposed radiators. I think the last few were sent to Wigan eventually

David Pomfret

30/12/15 – 13:55

After the Selnec takeover all of the Ramsbottom fleet of East Lancs double deckers were transferred to Bury, in early 1972. In exchange Ramsbottom got seven of Bury’s REN registration Atlanteans with three (I think) of the PDR2s which had been ordered by Bolton in the 6802-16 series.
Of the Ramsbottom double deckers, 1 and 2 were PD2s and had open rear platform bodies, all the rest were forward entrance, 3 was a PD2 also. 1 had the Leyland tin front and 2/3 the St Helens moulded front. 1 and 2 were withdrawn fairly quickly, both still in maroon in 1973, 3 was one of the first repaints into orange and white.
The remainder were PD3s, 4 and 5 also had the St Helens front and 5 was also in maroon for quite a while, it later became a trainer. The rest (6-11) were all exposed radiator and were virtually identical to Stockports last few, slight differences on 10 and 11 were hopper type vents on the windows. These all eventually ended up at Wigan, I vaguely remember one of them being at Queens Road for a bit.

David Pomfret