Dews Coaches
1967
Leyland PD3/4
East Lancs H41/32F

This PD3 was delivered to Ramsbottom UDC in November 1967. The chassis is variously described as PD3/4 or PD3/14, the confusion arising because Leyland reclassified its chassis codes at around that time. PD3/4 is probably correct. The body is by East Lancs and was delivered as H41/32, but, again, the capacity is now sometimes quoted as 70 seats. The Ramsbottom fleet was absorbed into SELNEC on 1/11/1969, and FTF 702F was withdrawn by SELNEC’s successor, Greater Manchester PTE, in December 1980. It was sold initially to Gold Star Coaches in St Asaph, North Wales, who then disposed of it to Alpha Coaches of Bootle in 1984. It didn’t stay there for very long, because in July 1984 it appeared in the fleet of Black Prince of Morley, who ran it right up to the end of that firm’s operation in July 2005. First Group sold it in September 2006 to Dews Coaches of Somersham, who added it to their small heritage fleet. FTF is seen here on wedding duties in St Ives (the Huntingdonshire one) on 5/9/2015.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

12/05/16 – 07:15

In my own days in St Ives, Ronny Dew ran a range of Bedford coaches however there were many Leyland PDs operated around the area by Whippet Coaches. Seven ex-Trent 72-seat rear entrance PD3/4s were in this mix but I don’t recall any forward entrance ones in Mr Lee’s fleet. Additionally there were a good number of PD2s most of which also came from Trent. I remember one low-bridge model from East Midland that I had previously ridden whilst it was with working on EMMS home territory.

Les Dickinson

12/05/16 – 17:02

A stunning all Lancashire product looking as good as it did 49 years ago when I first saw it. I prefer preserved vehicles in their original livery but this presentation is 100% plus.

Phil Blinkhorn

13/05/16 – 06:10

Nice view, Roger. I have submitted one to Peter with the bus in "Black Prince" guise, at Duxford, if he’d like to dig it out.

Pete Davies

13/05/16 – 06:11

This fine vehicle was the last bus to run on scheduled Black Prince with one of the Cowther family at the wheel. Black Prince also had a Roe bodied Leyland Titan that was new to Farsley Omnibus. The whereabouts of this bus would be appreciated.

Chris Hough

13/05/16 – 06:12

I was lucky enough to have a ride on it last year at the Peterborough Bus Rally and it was in fine fettle. A friend of mine in his early twenties was at the wheel. For a young lad brought up on modern ‘aim and point’ buses he managed the heavy Leyland manual transmission admirably.

Philip Halstead

13/05/16 – 06:15

As Phil points out, this PD3 in Dew’s colours is a fine example of a traditional livery that stands head and shoulders above the ‘modern’, indulgent, eye offending absurdities that blight bus fleets today. Dews (the firm itself has abandoned the apostrophe) does have a Bedford OWB coach, CUT 465, of 1944 vintage with a later Duple Vista C29F body of 1952. It has made a brief appearance in the Foyle’s War TV series, though purists would declare that its later body makes it an anachronism in a wartime drama. It is seen here in the fenland town of Ramsey, providing a service to the former RAF Upwood airfield during the 1940s August weekend event of 2006. The gentleman facing the camera from behind the nearside mirror is Simon Dew who currently runs the business with his wife Debbie, though his father, David, still has active involvement.

Roger Cox

14/05/16 – 06:43

A slight diversion, I know this is not a model bus site but here is a model I made of the same vehicle in original Ramsbottom UDC livery. It is 00 scale 4mm to 1 foot made from a plastic kit.

Philip Halstead

14/05/16 – 08:49

This picture of "FTF" which I took as it waited to operate the very last ever Black Prince departure from Leeds Vicar Lane to Morley at 2315 on Saturday 30th July 2005. The conductor is Brian Crowther, founder of Black Prince, and the driver is his son David – the route is a tricky one with many stops on the steep Churwell Hill. The bus was virtually full all the way, and one well sozzled client was heard to splutter "What are they doing with old London Transport buses on here ??" Such is the lamentable understanding of many of the lay public about public transport I’m afraid. I have no hesitation in saying that David’s impeccable performance gave us the finest ride on a manual PD3 that we’d ever experienced, not the easiest machines to handle on hills with heavy loads, and the journey was a credit to him and his Dad, who didn’t show their emotions too dramatically but it must have been a very emotive hour for them.

Chris Youhill

15/05/16 – 06:57

Nice views of ‘little’ and ‘large’, Philip and Chris! Could Philip please point us in the right direction for obtaining such a kit?

Pete Davies

16/05/16 – 06:49

The kit was made by a company called Classic Model Company (earlier named MTS) but I am not sure if they are still available. They may be available on e-bay. I did hear the Model Bus Federation had bought the moulds so they many be obtainable through that organisation. The kit is a one piece plastic bodyshell with seating, wings, wheels etc included to be added separately. As kits go they were quite easy to build. They were offered as Leyland PD3 with exposed traditional radiator or St Helens front, AEC Regent V and Daimler CVG6. Transfers were included for Ramsbottom, Haslingden, Bradford, Huddersfield and Black Prince. The firm also did a Bristol FS with transfers for various Tilling/NBC fleets plus Central SMT. When available originally they cost about a fiver so were excellent value and very good quality. Hope this helps.

Philip Halstead

19/05/16 – 06:03

That green and white livery with red wheels is very attractive. Shades of Nottingham Corporation Transport at its best in terms of livery.
On balance I think I favour this one over the other good liveries that this vehicle has borne.

Orla Nutting

19/05/16 – 14:40

Thank you, Philip!

Pete Davies

19/05/16 – 14:40

I myself have been lucky enough to drive FTF 702F whilst with Dews, I took it out on a number of occasions on trips to local rallies etc with members of the Cambridge Omnibus Society. A very pleasant bus to drive. The pic shows me with it at Great Yeldham Transport Museum open day in May 2011. It has the obligatory ‘Wedding Special’ on the blind to advertise the fact its available for wedding hire. The destination box being on the small size it would have only shown minimal info when in service.

John Wakefield

27/05/16 – 06:14

I think someone asked about the Farsley bus – HNW 366D. Sadly this was burnt out some years ago.

Paul Turner

07/06/16 – 06:58

After Black Prince HNW 366D moved to Classic Coaches and after the demise of the latter went to auction (with no COF) but was set on fire in the auctioneers yard after its auction.
BTW it had spent a brief period, joining HNW 365D, at Hardwick’s in Scarborough after WA ceased Farsley operations in the late 60s.

Ian H

02/08/16 – 06:48

Bancroft and Powers bought my grandfathers business Dec 1968, The Bedford CUT 465 was sold to Morton Potter Leicester I think in 1966, I have recently purchased a model of this bus in Dews colours.

Pauline Peters

30/10/16 – 06:20

The DVLA list owner changes of FTF 702F as follows which differ slightly from those quoted by Roger Cox.
current (Dews) 14/9/06
previous(Black Prince) 8/5/84
3rd owner (Alpha Coaches) 29/6/82 disposed 7/12/83
As a matter of interest Dews have recently sold the Leyland to a previous owner in Liverpool, this looks to be Taylor who traded as Alpha Coaches, Bootle.

John Wakefield

02/11/16 – 14:56

Travelled on this many times when it was Selnec 6408 and based at Bury, in the mid 70s.

David Pomfret

14/12/16 – 15:48

Most unusually, this Ramsbottom PD3 was allocated to Rochdale depot by Greater Manchester Transport in the mid 1970s. Rochdale Corporation had never bought Leylands since 1940 and Rochdale’s own Leylands were all withdrawn by 1956. A couple of withdrawn Bolton Leyland PD2s with manual gearboxes were sent to Rochdale in the 1970s for driver training purposes, then 6408 appeared in passenger use. It was the only front-engined Leyland to operate from Rochdale’s Mellor Street depot after 1956.

Ian Holt

06/06/17 – 07:07

I’ve recently received an email with a photo showing that this PD3 has now been repainted back into its original Rawtenstall livery.

John Stringer

Southdown Motor Services Ltd
1947
Leyland Tiger PS1/1
ECW C31R

HCD 449 is a Leyland Tiger PS1/1 with an ECW C31R bodywork (with door!) and dates from 1947, when it joined Southdown. We see it at an open day at the Brijan Tours depot in Curdridge – just outside Botley – on 22 April 2012. These open days were always well-attended, collecting money for local charities, normally the Hampshire & Isle Of Wight Air Ambulance. Sadly, Brijan closed down in 2015.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

29/04/16 – 06:15

Superb in every way.

Ian Thompson

29/04/16 – 07:56

Is this another post which will spark off the old debate about DP v Coach specification? Southdown classed them as coaches but the body shell is unmistakeably bus with just a little additional brightwork embellishment. That apart it is a superb looking vehicle especially with the chromed radiator surround nicely polished.

Philip Halstead

29/04/16 – 14:29

Thanks for your comment, Ian!

Pete Davies

29/04/16 – 14:29

This particular combination of already handsome ECW body with Leyland PS1 chassis has always been particularly pleasing to me as an ardent admirer of both components.
If ever there was a vehicle where everything looks "just right" this is one. Many operators had examples of these but as far as I know only the Southdown ones had half drop windows (and very tidy louvres??)

Chris Youhill

30/04/16 – 06:28

A very interesting thought, Chris Y. I’ve just had a trawl through the contributions in respect of ECW bodies. Among them, there are plenty of single deckers, but none have the half-drop windows. Is one of the Southdown aficionados able to tell us if that operator was indeed the only one to have this combination?

Pete Davies

30/04/16 – 12:16

I am sure that I have travelled on an ECW-bodied Hants & Dorset Bristol LS B35R with half-drops in the late 1950s.

David Wragg

01/05/16 – 05:55

My favourite Southdown vehicles. As a small child in the late 50’s, I used to travel into Storrington on the service 71 which was usually operated by the 15xx East Lancs bodied Royal Tigers. Occasionally, one of these magnificent machines would turn up much to my delight. (They were downgraded from express duties to bus work after 1955).
Some were fitted with bus seats and full size destination boxes front and rear. Others remained as built. Regarding the half drop windows, there is a story that they were delivered with sliders, but altered at Portslade works before entering service. Not sure if this is truth or folklore, but Southdown had a thing about half drop windows, and all pre 1956 vehicles had them.

Roy Nicholson

01/05/16 – 17:20

Roy, according to MG Doggett & AA Townsin’s lovely book ‘ECW 1946-1965’, it would appear that Southdown had accepted most features of ECW’s ‘express’ design on its batch of Tigers, including the trim along the waistline. Interestingly though the authors go on to state: "However, there seems to have been some unease about the opening windows from early on. Some, at least, entered service with the then new ECW standard sliding vents (there being photographic evidence of body 1644 at Victoria thus), but body 1638 had much deeper sliding vents while 1640 (Southdown 1246) had full-depth sliding windows as built". An accompanying three-quarter rear view of 1246(GUF746) clearly shows the full-depth sliders, which gave the vehicle something of an ‘export model’ look. The text continues: "All of these options were considered unsatisfactory, and special half-drop windows conforming to ECW outline were fitted within a few months". The view of 1246 with full-depth sliders shows it without the louvres above the windows, so were these fitted as vehicles received their half-drop windows? Whatever the case, there is no doubt that they were handsome machines, enhanced by the application of Southdown’s distinctive livery. Beautiful.

Brendan Smith

02/05/16 – 06:44

Brendan, thanks for the information confirming the story about the half drop windows. I will keep my eyes open for a copy of said book.

Roy Nicholson

02/05/16 – 06:44

Many thanks for your further comments, folks.

Pete Davies

03/05/16 – 07:09

A real favourite of mine, especially since I once travelled on one, with my mum, back from Southsea to Kingston, in 1953. I never thought of it other than a coach, especially so as it bore the ‘coach’ script on the side. The odd ones were always the utility open-topped Guy Arab II’s who also bore ‘coach’ script, not really deserving it, although I was fond of them!

Chris Hebbron

04/05/16 – 06:21

Chris, your comment confirms my recollection that these ECW bodied PS1s were the ones used on the London – Gosport coach service that I travelled on several times as a kid between 1949 and 1952. I recall the first time I saw one before getting on it in Gosport, and marvelling at its smart appearance. Having been a great fan of the Maidstone and District pre-war Tigers when previously living in Kent, I looked forward to being treated to the glorious musical sounds that the word ‘Leyland’ had come to mean to me. Oh, how the PS1 disappointed – like hearing Stockhausen after Sibelius. The E181 engine had a very harsh rattle, even if it propelled the coach along adequately. Back in the early days of Buses Illustrated, there used to be a regular column called ‘From The Driver’s Seat’ by a certain T.A. Dalton, who, I think, worked for United Automobile. He was consistently disparaging about the E181 engine, but our own OBP expert, Chris Youhill, takes a completely opposite view, and none of us, I’m sure, would challenge Chris’s unparalleled practical knowledge on the subject. Like the Crossley and Daimler engines of the early post war period, the E181 was probably best suited to single deck applications, and the PS1 continued to be the standard Leyland saloon bus offering after the PS2 had appeared.

Roger Cox

05/05/16 – 06:53

Many thanks Roger, and I must say though that my impression of the E181 engines was as unfavourable as anyone else’s when they first appeared in 1945/6. I think initially the stark contrast with the lusty but silky smooth prewar 8.6 litre unit hit us all very forcibly, and secondly, although I have no technical knowledge on the matter, I do think that fitter unfamiliarity and poor quality fuel contributed to that harsh "knock" which they displayed. In my experience they became much more mellow and delightful in later years for whatever reason and had remarkable power when properly "tuned and fed" and driven for their 7.4 litres. No use expecting them to pull with trolleybus like power at ridiculously low road speeds in the higher ratios – that’s where proper use of the very precise gearboxes was essential – oh there now, I’m drooling again. I often think of the occasion when I was just at the start of a very busy late Saturday duty when the AEC Regent V suffered a flat rear tyre and was changed over with JUM 376, one of the original half dozen bought new in 1946. The apologetic but understanding fitter promised to return the Regent within the hour with a new tyre – I said that I’d rather keep 376 for the rest of the duty and he agreed – I had a lovely evening but we were both lucky to get away with it as, if the eagle eyed manager had spotted on Monday morning that we’d un-necessarily sacrificed 65 seats for 58 we’d have been for the high jump. In the event of course we never left anybody all evening – did somebody mutter something about "eight standing" ?? – never heard them !!

Chris Youhill

Lancaster City Transport
1968
Leyland Panther PSUR1/1R
East Lancs B53F

LTC 109F fleet number 109 is a Leyland Panther PSUR1/1R with East Lancs B53F body, new to Lancaster in 1968. The batch was in maroon and cream livery then, but we see it in ‘post merger’ livery of blue and white, on the sunny evening of 20 May 1975. The scene is Lancaster’s Damside Street Bus Station. 389 JTD a 1959 Tiger Cub is behind, still in the old livery but with the Tilling style of fleetname adopted as an interim measure for Lancaster and Morecambe & Heysham vehicles, together with what looks like another Panther on the extreme left of the view.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

24/04/16 – 09:09

In late 1979 LTC 109F came to Derbyshire when, in company with Morecambe and Heysham AEC Swift UTJ 908H, it joined Woolliscroft Silver Service fleet at Darley Dale. Initially they were on loan from Lancaster City but were purchased outright soon after arrival. The Panther bore a strong family resemblance to a batch of Neepsend bodied Panthers at nearby Chesterfield, these Neepsend bodies being built under license from East Lancs. LTC 109F lasted a couple of years but was eventually stripped for spares and the remains had been scrapped by 1982. The Swift lasted a little longer going to North at Sherburn in 1983.

David Hargraves

24/04/16 – 10:43

My original slide includes the Ribble PD3 with Metropolitan Cammell body which some members may have spotted on the extreme right It is from the PCK series. Lancaster had six of these Panthers, in two trios: GTC 104-106F from 1967 and 107-109F from 1968.
David comments on a number of supposed ‘East Lancs’ products being bodied by Neepsend. Some of Southampton’s later Regent V fleet were products of this arrangement and I think I’ve read somewhere that many think Neepsend was a subsidiary of East Lancs, but they were in fact part of the same group. Wrong again, Davies?

Pete Davies

24/04/16 – 12:42

Just a clarification re. Pete’s comment, the registrations of the second batch of three Panthers were LTC-F.
Lancaster reverted to Leopards for its next deliveries.

Dave Towers

24/04/16 – 18:33

Thanks, Dave. I must fire my proof reader!

Pete Davies

26/04/16 – 14:57

East Lancs were owned at the time by John Brown engineering who were based originally in Sheffield They re activated bus building in Sheffield at a factory on Neepsend Lane using East Lancs designs.
So really Neepsend were never an East Lancs subsidiary but both were part of the John Brown empire.
Sheffield took some rear engine chassis from them in 1964/65 The firm (I think) built one more body on a Bedford VAS chassis for Sheffield but by this time it was called Cravens Homalloy.

Chris Hough

27/04/16 – 05:54

Thanks, Chris. I’m glad that the old grey cells have not failed me this time.

Pete Davies