Photo by ‘unknown’ if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

West Bridgford Urban District Council
1945
Daimler CWA6
Brush H30/26R

Here is a fine example of a utility body built just at the end of the war all very square and flat with little if any panel beating due to using unskilled labour to build it. You can also see just how small the headlights were and a painted radiator rather than polished alloy or chrome, not that it had anything to do with the war but you can also see the pop out trafficators (top right of photo below).

The CW series (‘W’ stood for “war”) started production in 1943 with the CWG5 which had a Gardner 7.0 litre 5 cylinder engine in total 100 were built before being superseded in the same year by the CWA6. The CWA6 had an AEC 7.7 litre six cylinder engine over 800 were built until in 1945 when Daimler introduced its own 8.6 litre six cylinder engine which was called the CWD6. Production of the CWD ceased in 1946 but due to waiting for bodies some did not get on the road until 1947 the CV series (‘V’ stood for “victory”) followed with production starting in 1946. All CWs regardless of engine had the Daimler fluid flywheel four speed preselective gearbox and vacuum assisted brakes.
The above bus entered service in April 1945 and was withdrawn from service in 1967 according to a fleet list I have dated 2nd April 1965 courtesy of WBUDC it states that this bus still had its Brush body so I do not think it had a rebuild but I bet it had a fair bit of touching up.

Bus tickets issued by this operator can be viewed here.

At the St Helens road transport museum there was a Daimler similar to the West Bridgford one here, the engine did not have a cylinder head on so I could see it was a 6 cylinder engine. But no 2 pot was only 2" in diameter while the rest were about 4"-5" any clues? was it a start help cylinder or balance help issue. What engine was it, the fuel injector pump had 6 outlets but no 2 was slightly different. The Vacuum pump was in front of the injector pump.
I remember the West Bridgford buses very well, they always looked a bit more posh than my fathers Nottingham City Transport, dad was commercial manager for many years, which meant I spent many a happy hour in the depot.

Ken Johnson

07/03/11 – 09:27

WBUDC was taken over by NCT in the late 60’s

Roger Broughton

11/06/13 – 12:31

A very belated answer to Ken Johnson’s question about the mysterious tiny piston visible in the temporarily headless AEC 7.7 engine of EWM 358, the ex-Southport Corporation Daimler CWA6 awaiting restoration at the St Helens Transport Museum, which I revisited with great pleasure last Saturday.
One of the pistons is at top dead centre, and with an overlay of dust covering both block and piston the actual bore diameter is obscured. Clearly visible is the toroidal combustion chamber in the piston head, looking for all the world like a baby piston in its own right. To add the the confusion, the other piston that would have been at TDC is missing, so that ALL bores except for the mystery one appear empty. The only inline sixes where only one piston at a time is at TDC are two-strokes, which this engine most definitely isn’t!
The whole vehicle is a major restoration project, so thanks, congratulations and best wishes to the Museum for their achievements up to now and in the future.

Ian Thompson

11/01/16 – 16:00

EWM 358 It was acquired by Blundell’s coaches in March 1957 – I took my double decker test on it. Wilf Blundell who was the British Stock Car champion was a friend of Mrs Topham of Aintree and the Daimler was frequently to be seen in use as a mobile grandstand. It suffered problems with its timber body and I think that is what led to its arrival at St Helens.

EAO

23/09/16 – 06:54

As a further insight to this vehicle I have just become a member of the NWTM and have the job of rebuilding the replacement engine for this vehicle, The original engine had thrown a leg out of bed (smashed the block on both sides due to con rod failure) The heads where removed for inspection.
I will update this agenda as work proceeds.

John P

23/09/16 – 11:01

All utility bodies built of wood suffered from timber problems within 6-8 years, EAO, as green (unseasoned) timber was used in their construction. London Transport started overhauling their Daimler CWA6’s around 1949 and gave up about halfway through the 281 they had. They found that much of the wooden frames had completely disappeared into dust and that correcting the work was far too time-consuming and therefore expensive! They didn’t like the 12 or so CWD’s they were allocated and replaced them fairly quickly with 7.7 AEC engines recovered from scrapped STL’s. One problem with the Daimler engine was that the exhaust manifold was next to the driver and made the cab very hot at times. Also the timing chain was at the rear of the engine and difficult to access. Isn’t the subject of utility buses fascinating???

Chris Hebbron

24/09/16 – 07:44

Gardner engines also had the exhaust on the right hand side, and that certainly didn’t influence their acceptability. I understand, also, that the Daimler CD6 engine had timing gears rather than a timing chain. Both the CD6 and the contemporary Crossley HOE7 copied exactly the bore and stroke dimensions of the pre-war Leyland 8.6 litre unit, but neither came remotely near that fine engine in terms of performance and dependability. The location of the timing train at the rear of an engine permits more accurate timing and allows the entire engine unit to be more compact. The rear location of the timing gears does reduce accessibility, but this only becomes an issue if the engine is of dubious reliability. Dennis adopted rear timing gears in the mid 1930s, and reliability was never an issue with Guildford power plants, unlike those of Daimler and Meadows. Daimler’s engines were of exceedingly variable quality, ranging from appalling to excellent, and London Transport quickly gave up on them. Daimler soon limited the fitment of its own CD6 diesel to single deck versions of the CVD6, where the unit was subject to rather less stress. The Freeline underfloor engined model used the larger 10.6 litre CD650.

Roger Cox

03/10/16 – 06:33

EWM 358 update; The engine has now been rebuilt and should be test run this week, prior to cleaning and refurbing the engine bay. The bearings in the fluid flywheel are at present trying to be sourced as they are the original Hoffman type 325/340 and have so I believe been obsolete for some years, There are however possible alternatives.
The intention being is to refit the engine so the vehicle can be moved under its own power to facilitate restoration.

John P

18/11/16 – 07:08

EWM 358 update. The replacement engine has now been test run and is in good working order, the engine bay is currently being refurbed in preparation for the engine fitting hopefully before Christmas.
A question for all you bus people out there,The Original engine does NOT appear to have a dynamo fitting anywhere on the block. I maybe clutching at straws here but were these fitted with Dynostart units, as all the main battery leads are on the starter side only.
The replacement engine is from a AEC Matador Ex service vehicle and was fitted with the Dynamo unit on the LHS Driven off the vacuum pump, which we are having trouble sourcing as we need the star drive and shaft with it.
More updates to follow

John P

19/11/16 – 08:07

The dynamo on postwar Daimlers was driven by belts from the input to the gearbox, which was mounted half-way down the bus, so there would be no dynamo on the engine. I can only assume that wartime Daimlers were the same.

David Beilby

20/11/16 – 05:46

Thanks for your info David, I will put the boiler suit on and have look.
As usual I will keep you posted and will put some pictures on soon.

John P

20/11/16 – 14:28

The subject of early timber framing deterioration in utility bodies is indeed true in the large majority of cases, but there were certain very commendable exceptions. Samuel Ledgard was very fortunate in this respect and seemed to have reasonably minimum trouble with theirs, new or second hand, whether built by Duple, Roe, Park Royal or Brush. One minor manufacturer though really did "let the side down" – Pickerings, and the two that the Ministry "treated" Ledgard’s to were so ugly and they looked like falling apart very early on. The Duple and Roe ones mostly gave approaching twenty years top line service with little attention other than the "in vogue" fitting of sliding windows to replace the half drop originals. Even the "Sutton depot" ex London Park Royals appeared to escape major timber rot. As with many other folks I find the subject of the utilities to be endlessly fascinating and I greatly enjoyed conducting and driving them.

Chris Youhill

21/11/16 – 07:48

To be fair, Chris Y. most of LTE’s 1946 Park Royal CWA6’s that Samuel Ledgard acquired in 1954 were overhauled in both 1949 and 1952, so most of the green wood was probably replaced by the time of sale! I’d say that SL got a bargain with them. Those of this batch which went to Belfast Corporation were re-bodied immediately by Harkness, which seems a little unnecessary at that point in time. Since Morden accommodated both Sutton and Merton vehicles, it’s certain that some of these buses had both you and me travelling on them at some point in time, Chris Y! The Guys Arab I’s might well have more robust chassis, but the Daimlers were more sophisticated: a classier act, IMHO. My joy was when they were used on the Morden to Epsom Raceday specials. I used to save up much of my pocket money and bunk off school for these rides. The conductors would often not take my fares, bless ’em! It is right to say that the CWD-engined ones performed better, but, if memory serves, there were only 12 of them!.

Chris Hebbron

24/11/16 – 07:26

EWM 358 update, I have now found the dynamo located underneath the bus as advised by David, While I was under there I was amazed at the condition of the lower timber floors and the body out riggers, certainly they are black, but they appear in general rot free, it is intended when the engine is soon to be installed, to remove some of the side panels for inspection, but if the ones that cant be seen are in the same condition as the lower ones the restoration maybe a lot less involved.

John P

29/11/16 – 08:46

EWM 358 update, The engine is now fitted back in the bus, However nothing is yet connected to it so it has not yet warmed the exhaust. Its nice to see it in its rightful place after all the years.

John P

30/11/16 – 07:01

This is all very interesting, John P. Do keep us informed of progress. Glad that the body condition seems to be positive.

Chris Hebbron

02/12/16 – 07:11

As a member of the above museum, I have been helping John with some of the engine replacement in the bus, as he says we ran the engine on a ‘dolly’ outside the museum a couple of weeks ago and it ran ok.
Will be nice to see it move under it’s own power after over 30 years as a static – albeit – somewhat derelict exhibit!
Cannot wait to see it move under it’s own power in the future!

Norman Johnstone

12/01/17 – 06:42

As promised update on EWM358, after changing the oil and conneecting the fuel system, Batterys were connected and after a few seconds on the starter the engine fired for the first time in the bus.
It smoked a bit then settled to a nice tickover.
However we do have a leak problem with the radiator it appears to have rusted some of the tubes out, but we will see what can be done.
OK now for the I need help bit. I know that this bus was supplied new to Southport in 27/02/1945 Fleet No 62 and was in service with them till 1953/4 and then sold to Wilf Blundell Circa 1957, it then went to Aintree race course as a mobile grandstand where presumably it threw the con rod through the block,it was later bought by a soliciter which is how it came to be in our museum. Can anyone fill in the gaps with the history, or even have photos especially when it was at Aintree.
More updates will follow.

John P

01/02/17 – 17:15

Belfast were aware of the issues with the utility bodies so having refurbished the chassis and fitted a new body these vehicles were a lesser cost route for a brand new vehicle effectively. They weren’t rebodied immediately – they were acquired in 1953 and rebodying did not commence until 1955/6. All gave 15 year lives so BCT got good value out of their vehicles. One example 476 (GYE 98) former LT D93 is preserved.

Bill Headley

Photograph by ‘unknown’ if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Bristol Omnibus
1949
Bristol L6B
ECW B33D

This photo was on the ‘Do you Know’ page, but thanks to Spencer for the information that led to this article.
Here we have two Bristol Single deckers from two different operators for sale at W Norths Limited, Sherburn-in-Elmet a dealer near York and the photo was taken in March 1966.
The one on the right is as the above specification, the interesting thing about this bus is the dual doors one at the front and one at the rear. I presume the bus had been converted to one man operation and the policy was you got on at the front and off at the rear. Looking at the doors though they appear to be manually operated so last on or off had to close the door. I bet there has been a fair bit of ‘tutting’ done on this bus in its lifetime due to people not closing the doors. If I am incorrect with my presumption please correct me by leaving a comment.
The one on the left is a Western National Omnibus 1951 Bristol LWL6B with an ECW C37F body registration LTA 863 fleet no 1314. A full fronted coach, but there was no need rushing to get on the bus first so you sit at the front next to the driver, no seat, just engine and wheel arch.
By the way, both of these buses were bought from the dealer, the one on the right went to contractor in Otley Yorkshire as a staff bus, not sure how long for though. The one on the left went on to Jordan Motor Services Limited, Blaenavon and did a further four years service before being scrapped in 1970.

A full list of Bristol codes can be seen at this link.

Yes this coach along with 9 others of this type were later owned by Jordans Blaenavon the last of these were I believe all were scrapped by 1971 the others came from Bristol Greyhound.

Tony

The twin door ECW bodied L types were unique to Bristol City services. They were always conductor operated. The front door was (after the first few years at least), automatic and operated by the driver. {As a schoolboy I used to always get off at the front just to be annoying – a lot of the drivers would forget to open the door.} In about 1958 there was a major re-organisation of services in Bristol which resulted in almost all becoming double deck operated and all of these L types were taken off. The 1947 series (JHT registrations) were disposed of. The LHY and MHW registered batches were exchanged for 35 seat rear door country fleet ones. Some were converted to one man operation with the rear door removed. A few, including the one in the picture, continued to operate in the country area as twin door buses.

Peter Cook

08/08/12 – 07:17

Having just been looking at this picture again, and having been doing CPC part of last week to keep my PCV license up, I have just realised that it would actually be illegal to operate the dual door L type without a conductor.

Peter Cook

17/12/14 – 05:38

I also travelled on B33D L types to games afternoons when at school. They ran, I think, service 145 from Horsefair which started off up St Michael’s Hill – quite exciting!
Previous comment is right. The redundant City vehicles were swopped for single door country buses and the company then converted the two door versions quite easily into one man operated, by extending the cab with a diagonal window across the engine bay, using the existing (slow) power sliding door and panelling in the rear door and upseating to 35. Like many operators one man operation took many Tilling operators by surprise!

Geoff Pullin

20/12/14 – 06:30

I don’t remember the 145 as a single deck route as my regular journeys to school in central Bristol began in 1958. The Ls were used on service 17 Temple Meads – Clifton, 139 Stapleton and 239 Ashton Vale (these two having low bridges and later combined as the 19).

Geoff Kerr

25/08/19 – 07:29

I have a print of the above photo and it is endorsed copyright Trevor Hartley and is dated 12 APR 1966.
Hope this helps to solve the photographer ‘unknown’ part of the description.

Ian Mawson

27/08/19 – 05:23

I can confirm that I took this photo at Norths on 12 April 1966. I am delighted that it provides interest and pleasure 50+ years on.

Trevor Hartley

Photograph by ‘unknown’ if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

West Yorkshire Road Car Company
1952
Bristol LWL6B
ECW B39R

Here we have a pair of Bristol Ls the one on the left is a 30ft long by 8ft wide version with a Bristol 8.1 litre 6 cylinder engine. The one on the right is a 1947 L5G registration EWY 431 fleet number SG115 this bus differs from the LWL6B by being a B35R 26ft long by 7ft 6in wide and having a Gardner 7.0 litre 5 cylinder engine. To say there is an age difference of 5 years between them there is not many changes body wise, but at that time just after the war all that was required were buses and as many of them as possible.

A full list of Bristol codes can be seen here.

A full list of West Yorkshire codes can be seen here.

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The reason for the very minor changes in these bodies, other than size and capacity, throughout their production run is a simple and exemplary one. They were an absolutely superb design, and the quality of the construction and of all the fittings was the best. Personally I also believe that they were the finest looking single deckers of the "front engined" era and also they combined the high quality and good looks with superb passenger flow, visibility and luggage space. A particularly appealing variant was the 31 seat coach, many examples of which were mounted,in addition to the Bristol majority, on Leyland PS1 chassis which made for another different but most attractive combination.

Chris Youhill

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SG 115 was always one of the regular Yeadon depot based (EWY registration) Bristol L5Gs used on my school special afternoon service from Otley Grammar School to Burley-in-Wharfedale in the mid to late fifties. I have very fond memories of these buses and particularly remember the lovely purring noise when at speed with the clunk of the gear stick into overdrive 5th or would this be 4th? WYRCC always exuded to me a feeling of what a "Tilling" Company should be. Happy days.

Richard Fieldhouse

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I share your acoustic memories of these fine vehicles Richard, and I remember the very first "EWY" registrations immediately after the War. I was just stunned by their clean lines and attractive and very functional interiors. As with all other Bristol Ls and Ks so fitted the fifth gear (nickname "supertop") was actually an external overdrive in addition to the normal four speed box – this accounts for the glorious melodious tones when engaged. It was engaged from fourth gear (NOT through neutral) by moving the lever to the right and smartly forward. It was virtually essential to adjust the engine revs and to return to the main gearbox fourth position well before the bus stopped or you might well be "stuck" in overdrive. I am not an engineer, but I think this is an accurate description of the feature – if not I’d gladly welcome any correction.

Chris Youhill

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31/01/11 – 15:05

Chris, many thanks for your description of how a driver selects 5th gear on a Bristol. I can well recall the action of the driver with the thrust forward of the gear stick which gave the clunk noise. I used to observe the driver from the front nearside seat of the bus which was always my favourite position.

Richard Fieldhouse

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31/01/11 – 20:13

Chris, thanks from me, too, for your description of using the fifth gear on the Bristol Ls; like Richard, I always tried to get a seat which gave a view of the driver – my own favourite was offside front by the gangway – but I’ve forgotten the exact pedal procedure, (I never drove one). You say you needed to adjust the engine revs and return to fourth while the vehicle was still moving, but how, without a neutral between 4th and 5th?
Also, how universal was the mechanism? Was it fitted to all West Yorkshire Ls? I don’t remember the Y-WY L5Gs having it, but that may just be because they didn’t need it for town working, or it may be another instance of my creeping senility!

Roy Burke

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01/02/11 – 05:37

Glad top be of help on the "supertop" query Richard and Roy. Returning to fourth gear from the overdrive did not involve neutral – but I omitted to mention that the clutch pedal had simply to be gently dipped and a very slight increase in revs applied and then the lever dropped easily and quietly into fourth gear. I can’t honestly say at what time the overdrive became available but I think that all L5Gs, pre and postwar, had it but possibly the JO5Gs did not – but I think that anywhere in York the traffic would be too heavy and slow to afford any opportunity for the use of the high ratio, and so the facility probably quietly remained “in reserve”.

Chris Youhill

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01/02/11 – 05:38

I seem to remember reading an account of a North Western driver with one of their K5Gs in Stockport, who pushed his luck with 5th gear – letting speed drop lower than he should. I think a car pulled out in front of him, or something of that sort. There followed an anxious, painful, strangled grind to regain a speed sufficient to escape from 5th without the humiliation of having to abandon ship.

Stephen Ford

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05/02/11 – 16:01

Chris, I have found your experience of the overdrive 5th on Bristols fascinating and am certain that all the WY Bristol JO5Gs and prewar L5Gs had an overdrive 5th gearbox. This feature only started to appear on the double decker Bristols around 1951. WYRCC fitted a 5 speed box to 1949 Bristol K6B 751 (DD Coach conversion 1951) and also to 1951 Bristol KSW6B 808 (DBW 3). Deliveries of later 1952/53 Bristol KSWs (LWR registered) had 5 speed gearboxes from new as did the later Bristol Lodekkas from DX3 onwards. (DX2 was delivered with a 4 speed box but converted to a 5 speed box in May 1954)

Richard Fieldhouse

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06/02/11 – 05:44

I shall have the Kleenex out soon at these wonderful memories of such happy times. I was fortunate enough to be allowed into Grove Park just at the time when 751 was completed as a coach and was standing there resplendent and sensational in its rich cream and maroon. Then you mention the magnificent 808, DBW 3. I was still at school and lived in Ilkley when 806 – 9 were delivered and all were allocated to Ilkley, with white steering wheels to indicate 8’00" wide. Initially they had open platforms and were returned to ECW later for doors to be fitted. They were glorious vehicles and if it was possible to improve on previous ECW deliveries they certainly achieved it in terms of interior fittings and finish.

Chris Youhill

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