Blackburn Corporation – Blackburn Borough Transport
1962
Leyland Titan PD2A/24
East Lancs H35/28R

The local government reorganisation of 1974 resulted in the merger of the municipal fleets of Blackburn and Darwen. The initial livery was a compromise, using Darwen’s red and Blackburn’s green, although the shades of these colours were rather brighter than those previously used. The combined undertaking was titled "Blackburn Borough Transport", the word "Corporation" ceased to be used at this time (at least for bus fleets) except in Douglas The main subject of this picture is 25 (PCB 25) a Leyland Titan PD2A/24 with East Lancs H35/28R bodywork, one of twelve delivered to Blackburn Corporation in 1962; a further twelve identical vehicles followed in 1964. These followed batches of Guy Arab IV’s, and I’m sure the drivers will have appreciated the semi-automatic gearboxes on these Titans. Other vehicles of both Blackburn and Ribble can be seen, including the rear of an Atlantean in the previous Blackburn livery. After a few years a version of the latter livery was applied to the whole fleet.

The photograph was taken at The Boulevard bus terminus, which was right outside Blackburn Railway Station. This terminus served the town well until recently, but at the time of writing this area is a building site, with temporary traffic lights causing delays to buses entering or leaving the town from the south. A new bus station is under construction near to the market hall, and a temporary bus station has been built nearby. Nowadays the former municipal services are operated by Transdev Lancashire United, which revives a once proud name, although not in it’s original operating area.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Don McKeown

11/09/14 – 077:00

Don, there was another exception – Barrow-in-Furness Corporation Transport. Buses proudly carried the fleet name ‘Barrow Corporation’ well into the 1980s. They retained their smart cream and dark blue livery and a coat of arms too. Nice picture with plenty of background interest which captures the era well.

Mike Morton

13/09/14 – 06:35

The semi-automatic PD2 (as opposed to PD3) was a pretty rare vehicle really. And I don’t recall the centrifugal clutches rattling on these PD2s the way they did on Ribble, Wigan, Preston etc PD3s when idling.

Michael Keeley

14/09/14 – 07:26

There were indeed more semi-automatic PD3s built for UK operators than semi-automatic PD2s, but not all that many more.
I can think of 391 PD2s, whereas the total for PD3s was, I think, about 580. The main customer for two-pedal PD2s was Glasgow Corporation Transport, which took 325. Others operators which spring to mind are Blackburn (24), Leeds (20), Huddersfield (6), Manchester (6), Swindon (5), King Alfred (2), Ramsbottom (1), Walsall (1), Demonstrator (1).
Taking Glasgow out of the equation gives 66 PD2s and about 440 PD3s, so, outside Glasgow, two-pedal PD2s were indeed relatively rare. There’s no way a centrifugal clutch couldn’t rattle, so if the Blackburn PD2A/24s didn’t rattle then there’s no way they could have been centrifugal clutch, they must have been fluid flywheel, which is what I would have said they were anyway.
Of the Ribble two-pedal PD3s, only 1706-1800 were centrifugal clutch, the final batch (1815-50) being fluid flywheel.
All two-pedal Preston PD3s were centrifugal clutch, but they only took the one batch (of seven), choosing manual transmissions for all subsequent PD3s.
I never seriously encountered the Wigan PD3s, sorry.

David Call

16/09/14 – 07:52

Never realised Glasgow had so many, their half-cabs were long gone by the first time I visited that city. Come to think of it, it was only the Ribble 1700s that rattled. The Wigans rattled with a vengeance as evidenced by the video of HEK 705 on Youtube. Some early Atlanteans had centrifugal clutches I believe, but had them quickly replaced by fluid flywheels, what did they sound like I wonder.

Michael Keeley

13/08/20 – 10:26

Brighton buses also proclaimed "Brighton Corporation" well into the eighties.

Eddie Leslie

CIE (Coras Iompair Eirann)
1966
Leyland Leopard PSU3 4R
METSEC B53F

EZH 234 is a Leyland Leopard PSU3 4R coach with METSEC body. It operated for CIE [Córas Iompair Éireann] and is preserved in their brown and cream livery. It was new in 1966 as B53F [fleet number C234] and reseated to C45F in 1968. In 1986 it was reseated to B55F and transferred to Bus Eireann as their CS234 in 1987. Withdrawn in 1995 it has been restored to its C45F layout.
The picture was taken at Gaydon Heritage Centre – Buses Festival 2014

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ken Jones

07/09/14 – 18:00

Looks like an excellent restoration. The colour scheme complements the METSEC body which is an interesting and very creditable blend of BET and CIE designs. Having sampled CIE’s previous Leopards on express services in the earlier part of the decade, I wonder how the ride was on Irish roads, especially as it aged. Having sampled two ten year old examples of the Bus Eireann Scania/Irizar Century a couple of days ago, between Tralee and Limerick and back, I would think the vehicle would have been allowed to deteriorate fairly rapidly as CIE and Bus Eireann work their charges very hard on roads that, away from the major cities, are not the best.

Phil Blinkhorn

09/09/14 – 07:00

This is certainly one handsome beast and a beautiful restoration.

Chris Hebbron

Meffan of Kirriemuir
1943
Commer Q4
Scottish Aviation C29F

On Sunday 25th August 2014, I went to the Seaburn classic and vintage vehicle rally. They had vehicles of all shapes and sizes, with most of the buses having been seen previously on this site. However, this is one I’ve never seen before. GSR 244 a Commer Q4, with C29F body by Scottish Aviation. It was new to Meffan of Kirriemuir in 1943. I assume the Perkins diesel was a later modification. Not a lot of detail I’m afraid, but an unusual vehicle.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ronnie Hoye

04/09/14 – 06:50

Ronnie, I think this Commer would be later than 1943. Whilst there were certainly some civilian Q4 lorries built from 1943 I don’t think there were any PSV applications until after the war.
The immediate post war Commer Q4/Commando story is a little complicated.
Basically, as I understand it, the Q4 was a goods chassis and at the end of the war the Rootes group were left with some surplus unsold Q4 chassis, possibly a cancelled government contract.
Some of these chassis were then reworked to become suitable for PSV use and when this supply was exhausted further chassis were built to PSV standards and these were called Commando.
Just what the difference was I have never been able to determine.
GSR was an Angus registration, so that ties in with Kirriemuir, but was current between Nov 1949 and Feb 1951. The normal control Commando was superseded by the forward control version in 1950 so I suspect GSR 244 dates from early 1950 and is a Commando rather than a Q4.
It may have had a later diesel conversion but the Perkins P6 was an option in these Commers from new.

Eric Bawden

04/09/14 – 06:53

This was new in April 1950 with a Rootes 6 cylinder engine.
Further note this was an ex WD chassis dating from 1943 reconditioned and bodied in April 1950.

Alan Oxley

04/09/14 – 18:00

Thanks for the chassis information Alan. That explains why it is a Q4 and not the Commando. It looks as if the Q4 and Commando ran alongside each other for much longer than I thought. In my message above I should have said the forward control version was of course the Avenger, and it appears the Avenger and Q4/Commando also overlapped by about a year.

Eric Bawden

04/09/14 – 18:00

Thanks for that, Eric and Alan. I was going by the information displayed on the vehicle. However, my thoughts at the time were that the body looked to be to modern and well appointed to have been of 1943 vintage, so a rebodied wartime chassis would explain it.

Ronnie Hoye

26/11/14 – 13:58

I wonder if anyone can point me in the direction of a photo of an RAF Commer Commando whilst it was actually in service with the RAF. I am trying to research a genuine registration number for a modelling project. There is a fine preserved vehicle in the Yorkshire Air Museum but it is carrying a post-RAF service civilian registration.

Andy

03/12/14 – 05:36

Andy – The one in the Yorkshire Air Museum originally carried the registration RAF 138076. From 1949, when a new system of military registrations took place, it became 08 AC 67.
So take your pick or build two models!

Chris Hebbron

23/02/15 – 07:43

Re the Meffans Commer coach. About 20 of these vehicles started life in 1946 as BEA one and a half deck airport coaches to run to Heathrow. They were replaced around 1949 and bought by Scottish Aviation who rebodied them and fitted recon 6 cyl side valve engines. Most were bought by Scottish operators including Meffan and Fern of Kirriemuir. Alexander took 20, one of them was used on the Pitlochry Kinloch Rannoch service I have first hand knowledge of the Kirriemuir ones as I drove both often.

Isla Adamson

09/04/16 – 08:19

Andy, no doubt you will be aware that the Oxford Die-cast Company has brought out a model Commer Commando in 1:76 scale. Liveries include RAF, BEA, BOAC,Australian National Airways and soon to come, South African Airways.

David Revis

09/04/16 – 10:33

What a very handsome tidy and friendly looking little vehicle, with a bright but refined livery which suits it admirably.

Chris Youhill

11/04/16 – 06:07

Having read with interest all your comments. I draw your attention to Alan Oxley and Isla Adamson comments which were gratefully received.
Alan in stating new to Meffan with a Rootes 6 cylinder engine being ex War Department chassis from 1943 reconditioned and re-bodied in April 1950.
Isla comment of, bought by Scottish Aviation re-bodied and fitted with 6 cylinder engine most of these coaches were bought by operators including Meffen, also Alexander took 20.
I have come across a photo of GSR 244 showing the original owner to be Alexander of Falkirk information is along side that of current owner being Derek Thompson of Longframlington, Northumberland at time photo was taken. If you input GSR 244 to BLOTW under search the owner it does show to Meffan however if you select More it raises 12 photos of coach. 1 photo clearly shows original owner to be Alexander so here lies the confusion of new to Alexander or Meffan. A 2nd. Photo shows coach sold to a Falkirk firm ( ? Alexander) after service from War Department.
Alexander or Meffan is no further trace until it was acquired by the late Ted Heslop of Acomb near Hexham in Northumberland in 1970 a scrap merchant / preservationist. Stripped to the chassis it was rescued in 2010 by Derek Thompson who re-bodied it with a Scottish Aviation body and a Perkins P6 engine. A 3rd. photo shows coach on rally circuit showing to WEST COACH MOTORS in Scotland whilst with Derek. Suffering in health Derek sold coach.
In May 2015 see’s the coach return to Scotland present ownership Unknown as of 10/04/2016.
GSR 244 is a 1943 Commer Q4 Ex. War Department chassis as in 1st.photo show’s it to have all Aluminium Bodywork by Scottish Aviation based in Glasgow.
A brief history would look like,
Alexander / Meffan 1950.
West Coast Motors ?
Ted Heslop 1970.
Derek Thompson. 2010.
Unknown(Scotland) 2016.
Alexander of Falkirk were coach builders around 1947/48/49 I ask could this coach have been built by them then listed as new to Meffan in 4/1950 or would anyone be able to confirm it went Meffan then Alexander. Any further history be gratefully accepted. Thank you to everyone for information up to this point.

Looking at another photo out of the 12 listed under More on BLOTW across the rear doors of GSR 244 is The pride of COQUETDALE, Northumberland. To the top right of the right rear door is,
Ex. WD
Commer Q4
1943.

Alan Coulson

11/04/16 – 16:25

We’re in need of Occam’s razor here; the vehicle concerned was built in 1943 as a goods chassis, not a PSV, it was not at any time a BOAC vehicle.
Walter Alexander & Sons Ltd (and subsidiary David Lawson Ltd ) did indeed run a batch of Commer Commandos with similar bodies; they and this coach were not however bodied by Walter Alexander but by the Prestwick, Ayrshire based company Scottish Aviation. From 1946-51 with a decline in aircraft production they built all aluminium bus and coach bodies.
This particular coach body was fitted at Prestwick by Scottish Aviation and the coach sold to Meffan of Kirriemuir. It is not recorded as ever having worked either for the Walter ALexander companies or for West Coast motors in any source I have ever seen.

Stephen Allcroft

16/04/16 – 06:08

Stephen Allcroft. Thank you for your detail I shall amend notes.

Alan Coulson

26/04/16 – 14:50

GSR 244 never served with West Coast Motors, the pic of it on Flickr by ‘ASP8’ in West Coast Motors livery is a digital photo edit on what it might have looked like in WCM livery.

John Wakefield

13/02/20 – 06:35

Here is a picture of a Commer Commando 1½ decker used by BEA and BOAC to name a couple….. www.modelbuszone.co.uk/

Phil

17/05/21 – 16:54

Still listed as unknown by PSVC.

John Wakefield