Old Bus Photos

W Gash & Sons – Daimler Freeline – NAL 783

W Gash & Sons - Daimler Freeline - NAL 783
Copyright Roger Cox

W Gash & Sons
1952
Daimler Freeline D650HS
Burlingham C41C

After the posting of a W Gash & Sons T.I.M. ticket and the very interesting copy from Stephen Ford on the Old Bus Tickets website yesterday here is the Old Bus Photos contribution to the W Gash & Sons of Newark, Notts weekend.

It is a shot of one of the first two production D650HS Daimler Freelines that went to W Gash & Sons in 1952, who registered them NAL 782/3. They had Burlingham C41C Seagull bodies and remained with Gash until 1967, when they were apparently sold to Trent Concrete for staff transport. Seen here, in the summer of 1961 just departing Huntingdon Street Bus Station, Nottingham, is the second of the pair NAL 783 with Daimler CVD6/Massey KAL 580 in the background.Gash Freeline close up

 

 

 

The very high driving position is clearly visible in this close up shot.

 

 

 

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

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01/01/12 – 07:17

What a wonderful sight to greet the New Year – low flying Seagulls! From personal experience I find the high driving position preferable. [At the time AEC had a high position but Leyland’s was almost uncomfortably low.]

David Oldfield

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01/01/12 – 07:22

I visited Huntingdon Street last week and then seeing the shot above I thought an update may be of interest. Whilst the area formerly occupied by the bus station is still discernible, it is now completely covered by new buildings. The old bus station stands were in two parts which could perhaps have been described as southern half and northern half. The southern half is now completely built over with a multi-story apartment development (!) and the northern half is now occupied by a Staples office store. Surprisingly, the old factory type building seen in the background of many a Huntingdon Street Bus Station shot still survives.
A pleasing note to record is that the rather nice art-deco style Barton garage is now in use again as a motor service centre after a long period of disuse and similar premises on the adjacent corner which I understand was once the garage of Robin Hood Coaches before being taken over by Barton are also back in use. The impressive Huntingdon House opposite the former bus station which were once Trent’s Nottingham office, booking office and chart room are still in use as specialist retail units. Like I have said before on other postings, a dead area now but visions of a wonderful former age can still be conjured up!

Chris Barker

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01/01/12 – 13:55

They really did have high driving positions, didn’t they!
A very evocative scene – was the sign ‘PLATFORM 4’ another way of saying ‘BAY 4’?

Chris Hebbron

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01/01/12 – 19:11

If it’s 1952, does it have a quadrant change pre-select box?

David Oldfield

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05/01/12 – 07:20

Alan Townsin’s book on postwar Daimlers states that the Freeline used "a CD650-style gate preselector". A photo of a 1949 CD650 clearly shows that this is the same arrangement that was used on later CV models, with a horizontal lever on the left of the steering column, similar to the AEC Regent III. However, the book also states that the Freeline had a 5-speed gearbox, so presumably the detail of the gate would have been unique to that model.

Peter Williamson


 

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Blue Bus Services – Daimler Freeline – 120 JRB – Dr 18

Blue Bus Services - Daimler Freeline - 120 JRB - Dr 18

Blue Bus Services
1959
Daimler Freeline CD650H
Burlingham Seagull C37F

The above photograph was given to me by the ex Blue Bus Inspector the late Ken Baker, when I worked for Derby Borough Transport, and was in charge of the Blue Bus operation at Willington, before the fire.
He had no idea where it was taken, but he thought it was in the Derbyshire Peak District somewhere, where as I thought it was in Yorkshire. Perhaps somebody will be able to identify the location?
120 JRB was unusual for a 30ft – long coach in that it was only fitted with 37 seats, the usual maximum being 41. Contemporary reports state that it was fitted with translucent panelling which could be lifted for ventilation. It was also fitted with an air operated pre-selector gearbox, and it was reported that it could travel at 55mph.

Blue Bus Service Fleetname Wings

This coach was the first vehicle to carry the “Wings” emblem in place of the “Blue Bus Services” fleet name. If anybody is interested I have a Blue Bus Services page on my website, which can be found at this link.

I hope someone comes up with the location of 120 JRB.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Stephen Howarth


19/12/11 – 11:06

Good picture, possibly taken in Wirksworth, Derbyshire.

Roger Broughton


19/12/11 – 14:21

You have set us a teaser as to where this is! The pale grey stone suggests that it is in the southern part of the Peak District- but where is/was there a Natwest Bank? Wirksworth doesn’t look right on Google Earth- goldish stone & brick- & has a big Natwest: this is/was a part time branch. I wondered about Youlgreave…..

Joe


19/12/11 – 17:19

Joe, Youlgeave (Pommy) hasn’t had a Natwest Bank, the stone is similar to both in fact all of the Peak District.

Roger Broughton


20/12/11 – 06:50

Well the few bits that I can add having worked for National Provincial and later National Westminster Bank are that the picture was taken after February 1971 and the size of the Branch would suggest that it was an "Agency" open one/two days per week. These were attached to and run by much larger Branches so that would seem to indicate that it is not too far from a large town or city. Oh that I had my old Sorting Code book because with a bit of work you could eliminate possibilities using Google Earth! Sadly, we always had to destroy them.
I’ve just researched Pateley Bridge because the road layout at the top of the hill is similar but the Bank is Barclays and too far around the bend. So not much help but any old Yorkshire/Derbyshire Bankers out there might get closer.

Richard Leaman


20/12/11 – 06:51

A flash of inspiration suggested Bonsall. Have a look at Google maps. I think the picture was taken from an upstairs window of the Kings Head, looking down Yeoman Street. The end of the cottage in the distance is fairly distinctive.

Stephen Ford


20/12/11 – 09:29

Well done Stephen- it is indeed: Yeoman St Bonsall. The shops have been prettified into houses and the bank is no more but looks much the same. The pub car park, probably once some cottages, has been improved: in fact the whole place looks smarter. It is possible that the pic was taken from the memorial plinth, but it was probably higher.
I’ll stick to my guns, though, Roger, on the stone: it was always noticeable that the stone changed going south from squarish often goldish stones to this pale grey rubbley stuff, often found around those tiny sheep fields/pens. Compare say Baslow with here.

Joe


20/12/11 – 10:21

I wonder were the coach is heading as the road out of Bonsal towards Brightgate is very narrow.

Roger Broughton


20/12/11 – 11:24

My guess would be that it was either a trip to view the well-dressings (July) or a pub visit at the end of an organised sightseeing tour. Roger is right, Bonsall was the end of the line for buses (and still is). At the time it was North Western territory with a fairly regular service from Matlock, nowadays G & J Holmes and an hourly service during the day on weekdays.

Stephen Ford


20/12/11 – 12:27

An amazing flash of inspiration, Stephen; I can’t fault it. Think of the chances that, from such a small group as us, someone would triumph! You shall have a gold star!

Chris Hebbron


20/12/11 – 14:24

O come on, Chris. There’s some shared brain power among us – and we’re probably all getting on a little bit now!
Coming from the Peak District end of Sheffield, the whole PD is my (favoured) stomping ground. Now exiled in the south, Bonsall was a regular part of run out in the car I did when visiting aged (now dead) parents. I only ever went UP hill from Cromford and never had the perspective of this photo – looking down.

David Oldfield


21/12/11 – 07:21

While it’s true that there are some widely-travelled folk amongst us, it still surprises me how many questions thrown at the website are answered. I’ll compromise by awarding Stephen only a silver star, then – okay?

Chris Hebbron


21/12/11 – 07:22

I’ve played around on Streetview, and if you paste this link into your browser, you can see the scene as it is today when map loades drag and drop the little orange man to the Kings head at this Google maps link.

KC


21/12/11 – 08:56

Hy Hulley, now there’s a name from the Peak District, nearly had the variety of vehicles of Barton, some out of COF vehicles would be parked on open land opposite the garage in Baslow, now luxury flats are parked there ! The business is still operating as Hulley under the Woolicrofts ownership ex Silver Service of Darley Dale. In the 1978 Busus annual there is a good article on Peak District operators from the 30’s.

Roger Broughton


21/12/11 – 08:57

Scrooge! I didn’t mean that Stephen didn’t deserve the Gold Star – I’ll reinstate it and take this opportunity to say Happy Christmas to ALL friends on this wonderful site.

David Oldfield


21/12/11 – 11:41

………and I’ll second that, a Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to all.

Chris Hebbron


21/12/11 – 12:03

That must have been one of the last Freelines built – also one of the last Daimler 10.6 litre engines. Wonder if Blue Bus managed to acquire a stock chassis at a knock down price for being a loyal Daimler customer? The steering wheel position in the Freeline always looks too high although presumably the drivers seat was similarly raised to achieve the required min 6"/max 10" clearance between the top of the seat cushion and the underside of the steering wheel rim required by the Conditions of Fitness Regulations.

Ian Wild


21/12/11 – 13:50

When I said inspiration, I didn’t mean the miraculous sort (or sticking a pin in a map at random either)! I was just thinking of places I have visited that might fit, then checking them in Google. Roger mentioned Brightgate just to the north of Bonsall, and we have in fact camped in a very old static caravan at Brightgate farm a few times. Even in the prettified state that Joe referred to, Bonsall is a grey village and can look a bit dreary in anything less than brilliant sunshine. I think my inspiration was along the lines of "it looks grey enough to be Bonsall!"

Stephen Ford


21/12/11 – 14:55

Stephen, The Barley Mow on the Slaley Rd out of Bonsall is a very good watering hole which has recently changed hands, good beer and food.

Roger Broughton


22/12/11 – 06:32

It certainly wasn’t one of the last Freelines, I’m not sure when production officially ceased but Great Yarmouth took some in 1964 with ‘B’ registrations. It would have been, however, one of the very last Burlingham Seagull’s to the original design. By no means a unique combination and yes, all of them appeared to have very high steering wheel positions, what is not immediately apparent is that this one had three long panoramic windows on each side and one piece windscreens, not the horizontally divided opening type. I think Yelloway had some to this diagram also. Delivered in June 1959 only just in time for that years summer, I think that was the last season of this particular shape. If Blue Bus had waited till the following year, they could have had the Seagull 70 body, now that would have been a unique combination!

Chris Barker


22/12/11 – 06:33

With Streetview you can actually get a link for the exact view you want rather than the map. Here it is: //g.co/maps/gysy4
Hulleys are indeed still operating, but I’ll have to look up their history. I think the link with Wooliscroft/Silver Service was short-lived and they had to be rescued by someone else.

Peter Williamson


22/12/11 – 07:46

If what Chris says is true, then that would indeed make it the Seagull VII and 1959 was about as late as you could get.
I know Hulley’s became independent of Wooliscroft but have no idea of the eventual (current) ownership. Some hazy reflection puts them back into the Hulley family but I could never swear to this.

David Oldfield


23/12/11 – 06:52

There is a history of Hulleys on their website //www.hulleys-of-baslow.co.uk/  which explains everything. The fleet now looks very smart in a dignified blue and cream livery which was originally inspired by second hand purchases from South Notts.

Peter Williamson


23/12/11 – 06:53

I am pretty sure the Great Yarmouth Freelines were the last, certainly for the home market. They were bought while Geoffrey Hilditch was the General Manager, a man who had very firm ideas on bus purchasing and as an engineer tended to go for high specification designs on the grounds they gave better pay-back in the long term. He took these principles to Halifax and then Leicester where he subsequently held the GM posts.
It always seemed strange to me that while Daimler were very successful with their double deck designs, eg the CVG and the Fleetline, they were never as successful with single deckers. The Freeline was a well engineered chassis but on the heavy and expensive side at a time when the industry was moving to lighter weight and lower cost. The subsequent Roadliner seemed to be a disaster from the start.

Philip Halstead


23/12/11 – 06:55

Premier Travel and Valliant of Ealing were also customers for the Seagull Mk VII, amongst others. The first Mk VII, on Leyland Tiger Cub chassis, appeared at the 1958 Commercial Motor Show in Seagull Coaches of Blackpool livery, just like the original Seagull at the 1950 show. Several of the Valliant examples plus all four Yelloway examples ended up with Premier Travel, joining the one they bought new, which made Premier Travel the largest operator of the type. Burlingham’s offering for underfloor engined coaches in 1960 remained the Seagull Mk VII, the Seagull 70 only appearing for the 1961 season, ie a year later than the similarly styled Seagull 60 for forward engined chassis appeared.

Dave Williamson


23/12/11 – 12:15

I made several journeys in the Gt. Yarmouth Freelines in the early seventies when they were on hire to Eastern Counties and they were very pleasant vehicles to ride in – a sort of up market Bristol MW. I believe Yarmouth had a good line in hiring them to coach operators whose vehicles had broken down in the area.

Nigel Turner


24/12/11 – 06:46

The only time I ever saw the Great Yarmouth Freelines was at Huntingdon St Bus Station, Nottingham in the mid sixties. One would sometimes appear as a summer Saturday extra on Trent’s Great Yarmouth service. At this time, Trent often hired in Norfolk Motor Services coaches as required – presumably the Freeline was part of this arrangement?

Bob Gell


11/08/12 – 07:32

Belated update on 120 JRB (have only just discovered your site) – am most impressed by how quickly the location of this shot was nailed down, incidentally! Lovely image of what was – arguably – the final Daimler-engined Freeline (Burwell & District had the other such chassis that could make the same claim to fame). The lack of window-pillars made quite a visual difference, certainly in the flesh.
Stephen asks if anyone knows the whereabouts of Dr 18: am guessing we know of her early years in preservation and subsequent re-emergence in a Barnsley scrapyard (what DID happen, though?) – since then, Dr 18 has covered quite a few miles, changing hands along the way several times, until (last I heard) she was in a barn near Uttoxeter with several other vehicles (so, not far from her Willington home) awaiting her turn for restoration. Somewhere, I have two or three colour shots of her in this location. If and when I find them, I’ll scan and submit.
Would LOVE to meet up with Dr 18 again though, so if anyone has more recent info (I’m going back at least half-a-dozen years, via a contact)…

Clarence


13/10/15 – 06:20

Some 3 years on since the "turn" comment (11/08/12), the vehicle is still in the same shed in the same condition. Would feel that restoration really quite unlikely now.

Roger Burdett


07/12/15 – 06:15

Freeline 120 JRB is indeed located near Uttoxeter together with CD650 SRB 425 and is owned by Mr Andy Mould. It is indeed the only ‘complete’ surviving Freeline in GB and is well worthy of restoration. It is mechanically sound but does need a full body restoration. It is now unique.

Gerald Anthony


02/08/16 – 17:27

How nice to hear this coach has been preserved. The last I heard was that it was rotting in a scrapyard in the Bradford area.
I was Youth Club Leader at Stretton Church during the 1960`s (Stretton being on the Blue Bus service route)
We had a"Blackpool Trip" every year in September and would always ask for this coach known as "Daimler 18" because our coach enthusiasts liked the sound of the powerful Daimler engine and the hissing of the air operated clutch.
I have a painting of 120 JRB standing outside Repton Church.
I remember we paid less than £1 per person for the coach (out for 20 hours on a 240 mile round trip) and a ticket to see Cliff Richard in Blackpool plus a tour of the illuminations.
We also asked for "Frank". one of Blue Buses`s young drivers.
Those were the days !!

Philip Whieldon


120 JRB_lr Vehicle reminder shot for this posting


17/08/16 – 09:56

I was kind of hoping you might shed some light on the whole Seagull Mk7 history as I am the owner of Blue Bus Dr18 120 JRB I can find very little other history on this period of Burlinghams activity and just wondered how many ‘plastic pigs’ were built, the body panelled entirely in fibreglass providing all the outline with a straight framed body must have been a brave step and taken a lot of development, although far from their finest hour, having restored BMS 415 many years ago I can fully appreciate how good they could be and 120 JRB is far from that build quality even evident after many years.
So I would be keen on know just how many were built I am aware of 999 EAE was 7 body numbers apart but I am told two of those numbers were allocated but never used.
Any information would be gratefully received.

Andy Mould


18/08/16 – 06:48

CFK 340

Reference comment of Andy Mould 17/08/16. his restored coach BMS 415.
Behind CFK 340 is BMS 415 returning from Manchester Museum 3rd of April 1982 location of photo is unknown any detail be gratefully accepted.

Alan Coulson


 

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Northern General – AEC Reliance – EFT 551 – 2154

Northern General - AEC Reliance - EFT 551 - 2154
Photograph by ‘unknown’ if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

The Northern General Transport Company
1961
AEC Reliance 2MU3RV
Burlingham Seagull 70 C41F

On the subject of bus liveries that has been discussed on this site recently. Some operators seemed to adopt a one style fits all livery that hardly varied from one type of vehicle to another, and made little or no allowance for differences in body style or trim. This example from the NGT group is a rather sad looking AEC Burlingham Seagull that was once a rather attractive Wakefield’s coach number 251 based at Percy Main, the depot I worked at. Unfortunately I don’t have a picture of one of these in coach livery, but in common with most other Northern group coaches ‘except Sunderland & District’ it would have been predominantly cream with maroon window surrounds and skirt, I cant remember if the roof was cream or maroon, but they did look rather splendid. This one seems to have had some other changes made, the centre roof window above the windscreen has been removed or painted out, and the seats appear to have been changed as the originals would have been red and didn’t have grab rails fitted. Sunderland & District had some Leyland Tiger Cub’s with identical bodies and they ended up in bog standard stage carriage livery.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ronnie Hoye

A full list of Reliance codes can be seen here.


30/10/11 – 15:02

Most regulars know that I am both an AEC and a Burlingham man. Whilst it is self evident and accepted that the original Seagull was a classic, unlike many others, I quite like the 60/70 models – even if they were not quite up to scratch with the original.
I never remember one of these in Manchester in the 70s but I only ever remember coaches in this livery, not the reversed cream version. Was the Tyne – Mersey service treated as a bus service for these purposes? This would still qualify as a quality livery by today’s standards.
One fascinating piece of trivia is that individual NGT group fleets were either AEC, Leyland or Guy fleets. So no standard corporate ordering there then.

David Oldfield


02/11/11 – 06:46

David, you are not on your own. Whilst, undeniably the Burlingham Seagull was the ‘Creme de la Creme’ I also had a soft spot for the 60/70 series.
My local operator Baddeley Bros. of Holmfirth had two original Seagulls on Royal Tiger chassis KWU 844 (1951) and LWY 653 (1953). They then had Bedford SBG/Burlingham RWY 277 in 1956, again still quite attractive. Then came four SB3’s in 1959 with the hugely curved windscreen Burlingham body (probably a coach version of the PA series Vauxhall Velox/Cresta cars of the period) Then in 1961 came Bedford SB1 2496 WY with the Burlingham 61 body. This body, I thought, suited the front engine Bedford better than the underfloor AEC/Leyland chassis. This coach was followed in 1962 by a Duple Gannet bodied SB5. Things were starting to slide Burlingham wise!
All these coaches served me as school buses between 1965/70 so perhaps I’m looking through rose tinted glasses.
I thought the 1959 petrol engined SB’s mundane, 2496 WY and it’s Gannet bodied sister 433 BWU, so-so but when we got the Royal Tigers with the classic Seagull body which was not that often, despite there age, that was the ‘Creme de la Creme’!

Eric


02/11/11 – 09:26

Couldn’t agree with you more, Eric. They were a superb coachbuilder but, towards the end, had more than their fare share of dogs – especially regarding design. Apart from the plastic roofs on Seagull 60s, I’m not aware of any considerable drop in quality and the Duple Continental and Firefly/Dragonfly were Burlinghams in everything but name and seemed to have a good reputation.
I’m a Sheffielder, who had relatives in the Barnsley and Huddersfield areas, and always thought Baddeley Brothers looked quite classy. I was only really aware of them as a student in the early 70s, passing through on the X19. By that time, the principal vehicles were Bedford YRQ/Plaxton Panorama Elite Express grant vehicles. They still looked smart, though.

David Oldfield


02/11/11 – 15:04

David, Your mention of plastic roofs on the 60’s has jogged my memory. I remember the cloth trim on the interior ceiling of both 2496 WY and 433 BWU being quite badly stained by the ingress of water when they would probably be only about five years old. Baddeley’s also had a Duple Alpine Continental on a Leopard chassis 474 EWW. Of course the other sizeable coach operator in the Huddersfield area was Hanson’s who had two batches of Firefly’s on Ford chassis in 1963/4

Eric


03/11/11 – 06:27

Strange, isn’t it, how many operators had heavy (or medium) weight service buses and lightweight coaches? Hanson and Booth and Fisher (recently posted) had AECs and Ford coaches, York Pullman was AEC/Bedford, the Doncaster indis went down a similar road and this was replicated around the country. Firms like Baddeley Bros were less common, but by no means unique, with their mix of heavy and light weight coaches.

David Oldfield


03/11/11 – 17:46

Hanson’s was rather a complex fleet in the fifties. The coaches were a mix of Regal III and Reliances and Bedfords and the buses were AEC with a smattering of Albions. Between 1956 and 1966 most of the AEC’s went on to be rebuilt as buses. The Bedfords were kept anything from 2 to about 5 years and from about 1959 all new coaches were Fords right to the demise of the Hanson business in 1974. This change of allegiance is thought to have being something to do with Hanson Haulage buying large numbers of Ford lorries.
Baddeley’s although being a smaller operator chose both Leyland and Bedford for new coaches in the fifties, many with Burlingham bodies, this policy continuing into the sixties. They also purchased quite a few secondhand coaches, including 2 that had been operated at one time or another with Hansons. Another feature of Baddeley’s was the hiring in for the summer season of coaches from local dealer Hughes and the Baddeley’s fleet name and number being applied. Several of these were in Wallace Arnold cream as the had be leased by WA for one or two seasons from Hughes when new. This led to Baddeley’s having quite an interesting and varied fleet. Wish I had owned a camera in those days.

Eric


04/11/11 – 07:04

I agree with you David. The last of what some would call ‘proper coaches’ to carry the Wakefields name were two Plaxton Embassy Bedfords ‘SB8’s I think’. The next Wakefields after that were Alexander ‘Y’ type DP’s on Leyland Leopard chassis, but I think that would have been a decision based on economics. Percy Main depot didn’t have any long distance or express routes, so the coach fleet was only used for private hires and excursions and most were de-Licensed at the end of Blackpool Illuminations, so apart from three double deckers the Wakefields name virtually disappeared from October until about Easter, where as the DP’s were used all year round and went onto stage carriage work in winter months. If memory serves, for the first couple of years some of them had the seats changed to ordinary bus type during the winter.

Ronnie Hoye


13/11/12 – 08:40

I remember going to the Lake District in the early 60s on one of these and it did indeed have the reversed coach livery the above is a later incarnation.

Malcolm Swaddle


18/04/13 – 17:40

EFT 550

Not in colour I’m afraid, but I’ve found this photo of one of EFT 551’s sisters in its original Wakefield’s livery. As I’ve said, Percy Main had four of these, EFT 550/3 – 250/3; and they remained in service as coaches until about 1970, they were then transferred to Northern and downgraded to D/P’s

Ronnie Hoye


 

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