Copyright John Stringer

West Yorkshire Road Car Co
1964
Bristol RELH6G
ECW DP47F

A while back I posted a gallery of photos taken on the occasion of a Farewell to Samuel Ledgard tour in 1967.
Taken on the same day at the start of the tour is this one showing West Yorkshire Road Car’s fine Bristol RELH6G/ECW coach ERG5 (AWR 405B)loading in Bradford’s Chester Street Bus Station.
Behind is our tour coach – Ledgard’s Tiger Cub/Burlingham Seagull UUA 794.
Alongside is West Yorkshire’s SBW28 (KWU 388), a Bristol LWL6B/ECW B39R new in 1952 as no. 451 but renumbered in 1954. It was withdrawn in November 1967 and sold to North’s the dealer in 1968, passing to Drury (Northern) Ltd, Huddersfield for works transport.
Behind the LWL is SMG11 (MWR 222), a Bristol LS5G/ECW B45F new in 1954 as EUG11 with DP41F seating. It had been rebuilt by ECW as B45F in 1958 and renumbered SUG11, but then renumbered again to SMG11 (in the MW series) in 1962. It was withdrawn in 1968 and also sold to North’s.

Photograph and Copy contributed by John Stringer

15/01/13 – 14:49

My first solo visit to London from Sheffield was on one of these. (E reg. – but I didn’t record which one.) I knew I would not get a ZF Reliance – SUT didn’t do Yorkshire Services and East Midland didn’t do the Sheffield diagram. The ZF Reliance remains my favourite but the RE was a revelation and started my "love affair" with the marque and model both as passenger and as driver. A magic carpet ride and smoothly quiet. Was this only the ’60s? [Stephen Morris once said that standards of ride and engineering were never bettered than on the AEC Regal IV – the same could be said, especially of rear engined vehicles, of the Bristol RELH6G/L (and sisters)].

David Oldfield

15/01/13 – 17:38

In Lancaster, we used to have West Yorkshire vehicles coming through on the X88, which ran between Morecambe and Leeds/Bradford. So far as I can recall, these were usually from the CUG/EUG/SUG classes of LS, but we had the more modern MW types from time to time.
I have a view of one of these in the background of a slide of one of the Standerwick Atlanteans, but it isn’t suitable for publication.
With the others, there were obvious differences, but why was the example above not a full CRG???

Pete Davies

16/01/13 – 05:13

Probably due the peculiarity of official designations by BTC/ECW for these early coaches, Pete. If they had full destination blinds (including number boxes) and powered folding doors, then they were designated DP (express). If they had a single piece coach door and small destination blinds without number box they were designated Coaches. DPs included United’s 43 seaters fitted out to the most luxurious specification for the long trek to London. [Including the arm-chair like seats, a notable feature of RE coaches.] This looks like one of these United-like "DPs" – although 47 was the usual capacity for these REs.

David Oldfield

PS: The new Weymann Part 2 book designates Sheffield’s Fanfare Leopards as Express. The only difference between them and any other Fanfare produced is the full destination display – including number box.

16/01/13 – 08:40

Thanks, David!

Pete Davies

16/01/13 – 17:15

I agree with David Oldfield’s comments regarding the quiet comfortable ride of the ECW bodied RELH6G I think because the bodywork was so solidly built with good sound insulation and as they normally had only 47 seats quite spacious for passengers.
Driving on the other hand especially on the early 5 speed manuals took some getting used to as hearing the engine note to time gear changes was not easy but once mastered it gave genuine satisfaction, the main bugbear was what seemed to be too wide a gap between the 2nd and 3rd gears which was present on all RE’s coach or bus that I drove.
Also be careful selecting reverse on those type if the heater control was in the mid position in it’s quadrant as it was very easy to trap your finger very painful, but for all that I am glad to have driven the vehicles of the 60’s and 70’s rather than the automatic power operated point and steer vehicles that have followed since then where I would feel more of a wheel hand than a driver.

Diesel Dave

17/01/13 – 05:28

Yes. As an operator friend of mine once said, "I want professional drivers, not steering wheel attendants." As a fan of the ZF manual box [I know, not available on REs] I have only ever driven semi-automatic REs. Pleasurable, nonetheless. The gap between ratios on 2nd and 3rd gears was always far more noticeable on the Leyland Leopard, though.

David Oldfield

18/01/13 – 06:35

I have always been a fan of the RE despite an unfortunate incident involving one. In 1973 I went from Salisbury to Swindon for the purposes of a vasectomy. The deed was done and I caught the service bus home. At the time this route was shared by Wilts and Dorset and Bristol Omnibus and it was the latter’s RE that I boarded. Despite a dose of aspirin and decent suspension I felt every bump! At the short stop in Marlborough I had a walk round but was very glad to reach Endless Street bus station, which incidentally the asset strippers are going to sell now. Several years ago I saw a preserved example at the Warminster running day. It pulled away with that glorious Leyland sound and distinctive transmission noise and a shudder went through me.

Paragon

18/01/13 – 06:36

A lovely shot John, crammed full of interest – and doesn’t that cream and red livery really brighten up the wet weather scene? I cannot help but agree with David and Diesel Dave’s comments regarding the RE coaches. I had a real soft spot for them and thought they looked elegant and restrained, and as you say David, gave a very quiet and comfortable ride. West Yorkshire provided a coach for interested Central Works and Harrogate depot staff to visit the 1970 Earl’s Court Commercial Show. The company provided ERG7, their only ERG with semi-automatic transmission. It was such a smooth and gently powerful beast, and our three drivers (fitters Johnny Berry and Malcolm Houseman, and I think, driving instructor Johnny Parker) drove it as taught. Each upward gearchange was paused in neutral, to allow the Gardner engine’s revs to ‘die down’ before the next ratio was selected, and the changes were barely perceptible. Only the engine and exhaust notes gave the game away that the next gear had been selected.
David’s comments are correct relating to the designations – ERG being Express, Rear engine, Gardner, as the class had bus-type glider doors and a bus-style destination layout. They were painted cream and red, denoting their ‘dual-purpose’ status. The full coach version (CRG) had a one-piece coach door, and had a smaller coach-style (two aperture) destination display. Livery was cream and maroon, as befitting their more prestigious duties, and the coach version also sported a deeper aluminium trim strip beneath the side and rear windows, which was also ribbed. By the way David, if the coach you rode on to London was E-reg’d, it would have been CRG1 (OWT 241E), as it was WY’s only E-reg’d RELH. It was always my favourite WY RELH, and was company’s only manual gearbox CRG. It also had a fascinating history all of its own!

Brendan Smith

18/01/13 – 08:14

Brendan, thanks for that. Would that mean it was the RELH6B that was an "unfinished" test bed vehicle built sometime before 1967? After fulfilling its test duties it was re-engined with a Gardner and sent to ECW to be properly finished.

David Oldfield

18/01/13 – 11:03

Just like Brendan I have the very greatest admiration for all versions of the Bristol RE. Having at one time had many relations in the South I was a fairly regular traveller on the London services and the RE coaches were above reproach in all respects, particularly quiet smooth running and supreme comfort – we have every sympathy with your predicament Paragon but the Bristol can scarcely be blamed for that, and what a mercy you didn’t have to travel home on some of today’s ghastly apologies.
The Bristol RE service bus was equally impeccable in every way – not least in tidy professional ECW appearance. A well known driver who at one time used to write very balanced, sensible and informed articles about various models once gave the RE a wicked slating, saying that its road holding was nothing short of dangerous etc etc – I was amazed by this obviously genuinely meant opinion, and could only reflect on what he might have thought to a wet road and an AEC Swift with most of the load in the rear area !!

Chris Youhill

18/01/13 – 11:38

…..or a Leyland National 1…..

David Oldfield

19/01/13 – 06:21

I once caught the by then National Express coach from Wigan to Leeds in the mid seventies I was somewhat surprised when an ECW bodied RE West Yorkshire coach arrived.
The ensuing ride was a bit of a Tardis moment; a superb ride in a seat that todays body builders would do well to study. A well driven bus complete with conductor of vintage years.
Incidentally did ECW ever change the seat support design (on the aisle end) in the last 40 years prior to their final closure? All the ones I’ve ever seen look like they were designed in the thirties.

Chris Hough

19/01/13 – 06:53

Oh yes, Chris, those were the days…..

David Oldfield

19/01/13 – 09:48

I’ve done Penzance to Aberdeen over three days as a passenger in Roger Burdett’s Royal Blue RE a couple of years ago. Great comfort and large windows to look out of – very good indeed

Ken Jones

19/01/13 – 11:35

Yes David, CRG1 was indeed the Bristol RELH6B test bed vehicle you describe (chassis number REX003). It did have a turbocharged Bristol BHW engine fitted at one point while with Bristol C. V, which was based on a horizontal version of the BVW unit. As you say, it was later fitted with a Gardner 6HLX engine, and the body kitted out to full coach specification. The BHW engine never went into production, which was a pity in some ways, as the sound effects would no doubt have been quite interesting, whether in turbocharged or naturally-aspirated form.

Brendan Smith

19/01/13 – 14:40

I used to be quite pally with some of the drivers who worked these on the Newcastle/London run, and they all spoke very highly of them. To me they always looked dignified and quietly restrained in United’s olive green and cream coach livery ‘the vehicles that is and not the drivers’ sad to think that some of these coaches ended up in the anonymous all white corporate image livery of National Express

Ronnie Hoye

19/01/13 – 18:01

—- sorry but I think these vehicles looked really good in the NATIONAL livery and I’m glad that OTA 640G is carrying this livery in preservation. It looks sleek and stylish, but I know such a comment might upset people who always want to see vehicles in original liveries, but here again there are already a number of Bristol RE coaches preserved in Royal Blue livery.

Ken Jones

20/01/13 – 05:04

Ken. You could be right, but a Duple or Plaxton looks horrendous. The ECW gets away with it because of its parallel straight line.

David Oldfield

20/01/13 – 12:26

My point is not so much that they didn’t look nice, some types suited the livery very well, but it was the fact that they all looked the same. Pre NBC the BET group used a wide variety of vehicles with many instantly recognisable liveries, but even the more uniform Tilling fleets still had a certain amount of individuality, Royal Blue and United being classic examples. However, when they became NBC they lost all that and became anonymous and boring.

Ronnie Hoye

20/01/13 – 12:28

In the mid 1970s I used to travel quite frequently between Purley and Eastbourne by National Express. The vehicle that usually turned up was a National Travel (South East) [aka Timpson] Bedford YRQ carrying a Willowbrook Spacecar body, and the thing always made a meal of the gradients along the Caterham Valley and across the Weald. The standard of ride was truly awful, pitching and bouncing over quite ordinary road surfaces, and the bodywork itself seemed to be exceedingly plastic and crude. At weekends, the outbound trip from Purley was sometimes duplicated by an RE such as that shown in Ken Jones’s photo, and the contrast in high passenger comfort and effortless road performance could not have been greater. Having driven YRQs with bus bodywork, I suspect that much of the problem with the NT(SE) coaches was the Spacecar body, which soon acquired a notorious reputation for fragility. The Bristol RE was an outstanding design, and Stokes couldn’t wait to kill it off in favour of the Leyland National.

Roger Cox

03/03/13 – 07:57

An RE was the best for the passenger and the driver. It did depend on the suspension type and I drove my first one in the mid 60s for United Counties from Northampton to London. Once on the motorway she could be opened up and the front seemed to rise slightly and she was away. The steering was good and ideal for town work as well. Going through was a doddle. I drove a lot of RE’s for the Royal Blue and they were just as good. They were good for luggage also which helped to distribute the weight. They would not cope with the size of some of the suitcases which are in use these days.

Jim Stapleton

03/03/13 – 10:49

The ECW coach body on the RE was a thoughtful blend of traditional and modern design based on excellent engineering and quality standards of build. At the time there were a good number of outstanding looking (and quality) coach bodies available on a Leopard and Reliance chassis and of course BMMO had their own excellent contender, but for pure class in every department nothing beat the RE/ECW combo and it survived to look the least bland in National’s so called livery.

Phil Blinkhorn

14/06/13 – 12:11

Diesel Dave’s comment regarding the difficulty in hearing the engine to time gear changes, reminds me of the many journeys I made between Newcastle and Leeds on these vehicles. Most drivers kept the cab window open to hear the engine/exhaust. One chap though, who I regarded as the absolute expert, used a different technique. On the up changes, the gear lever would be offered very gently to the next position. You could see the stick vibrate but such was the delicacy of touch that no grating sound could be heard. When the revs were right, the vibrating ceased and the lever just fell into the next gear!
At the other end of the scale we once had a Northern General driver (I have no idea why) who had never driven an RE before. We crunched and ground our way south with the driver trying to avoid changing gear whenever possible. To his credit, he admitted that the problems were down to him and not the bus.

Bob Hunter

29/12/13 – 16:21

When I started work at Keighley depot there was DX types SMGS SMAS SRGS VRS LHS lots of conductors the real thing always on time very rarely missed not has comfortable I remember KDX 39-44 69-71 93-96 KDX 133-145 162-166 I think KDX 138 was based at Skipton along with VR 44 later to be 1944 SRGS were good to drive with the semi auto-gearbox I went to Lowestoft to bring back the Leyland Olympian I brought 1801 I think it had a Vorth gearbox 2 more of my fellow drivers brought 1802 1803 these were taken to Harrogate then later they came to Keighley also around that time the Leyland National was introduced the DXs and SRGs where disappearing.

John French

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

26/06/17 – 07:20

Well good folks of OBP, I have to apologise most profusely, and especially to our David O, for peddling mis-information on 18.1.13 relating to West Yorkshire’s CRG1. I have only just realised, whilst browsing on OBP that CRG1 was not WY’s only E-regd RELH. For some inexplicable reason I had totally forgotten about CRG2-4 (PWR 858-860E). I could blame this on the ‘short’ E-registration letter year (‘F’ suffix registrations commencing in August 1967, heralding the letter suffix ‘year’ changing from January to August) or I could blame teenage excitement on the arrival of the five dual-door RELL6Gs (SRG34-38:PYG 652-656E) overshadowing all else, but it was neither. I’m now off to eat a large slice of humble pie with a few green beans!

Brendan Smith

Copyright Pete Davies

Hants & Dorset Motor Services
1962
Bristol MW6G
ECW C39F

This Bristol MW with, as it was called then, the ‘New Look’ design was new to Hants & Dorset as their fleet number 887 in June 1962. In 1963 the batch (882 – 887) were down seated to C30F for extended tours, but reverted to C39F in 1968. In the first view, she has been downgraded to local bus work, as DP41F and is in special livery for the RED FUNNEL FERRIES contract and is seen at Southampton Central Station in April 1974. Her sister, 7122 LJ, was in BRITISH RAIL SEASPEED livery at the same time, but my view of the sister is not suitable for publication.

Copyright Pete Davies

In the second view of 7123 LJ, the relegation to service bus duty is complete, having been repainted in NBC poppy red livery with white stripe in 1975. She’s in the yard of Southampton depot in January 1976. In both views, she has the fleet number 1833 but for a brief time in 1971 she had the fleet number 1001.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

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14/12/12 – 07:21

Never thought NBC poppy red could be an improvement on another livery but…..

Eric Bawden

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14/12/12 – 07:22

When I photographed sister vehicle 1831 in 1973 on local service at Winchester, she was still fitted with high back seats. I’m amused by the fact that in the upper view, 1833 retains wheel trims, but has been relegated to bus seating.

Alan Murray-Rust

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14/12/12 – 08:50

Indeed, Eric! I have vague memories that Southern Vectis had a vehicle in similar livery, for the Cowes to Newport element of this service, though I never photographed it. The service connected with the express trains from Waterloo and, in later years, had the service number 91, to match the train headcode! Different people have operated the link over the years, including Marchwood Motorways (using a Ford with Duple coach body and special livery) and Southampton Citybus (both before and after they sold out to First) Current operation is called "City Link" and the Unilink version of Solent Blue Line runs it.

Pete Davies

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14/12/12 – 10:44

I like to think that even me, colour-blind, would not have come up with such a hideous range of colours and patterns as the poor suffering bus has in the top photo. Sun glasses might have helped! I always liked the ‘New Look’.

Chris Hebbron

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14/12/12 – 16:26

Just a different way of applying poppy and white, Mr H!!!

Pete Davies

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15/12/12 – 12:00

Mansfield District had some of these type vehicles, good looking coaches when new, however, the downgrade to DP services saw the addition of the linen box grafted onto the front dome, it spoilt ’em though at least Mansfield fully removed the original two boxes above the headlights.

Berisford Jones

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15/12/12 – 14:32

Berisford, I’m not sure what happened to this batch with Hants & Dorset, but most of the H&D coaches just had the box, illuminated, with the lettering HANTS & DORSET under the driver and HOLIDAY TOURS in the other one. Some of the RE coaches, down to NBC DP livery, had the HOLI removed.
Yes, removal of the box would probably have made the outline better!

Pete Davies

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15/12/12 – 16:21

I like the design of these vehicles – I don’t like the destination box. For comparison take a look at a similar Royal Blue coach at this link which doesn’t have such a box

Ken Jones

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16/12/12 – 11:00

Yes, Ken, same here! So far as I know, Royal Blue coaches weren’t downgraded to DP or bus work, so they never needed that box in the dome.

Pete Davies

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16/12/12 – 12:14

United had some of these with a different front panel and destination layout. Drab olive green and cream sounds hideous for a coach livery, but anyone who has ever seen one of United’s coaches will tell you, it works, and these were no exception.

Ronnie Hoye

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16/12/12 – 14:44

Although some of the Royal Blue MW vehicles like EDV 502D had Western National branding instead of Royal Blue they never [thank goodness] received these horrible destination boxes. There’s a picture at this link showing ENOC with an equally horrible destination box

Ken Jones

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16/12/12 – 17:31

The later vehicles with the deeper windscreens, such as the one in the link Ken posted never looked right to my eyes and I agree Ken, that thin profile linen display box looks very wrong. Not one of ECW’s best at all.

Berisford Jones

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17/12/12 – 08:09

You are spot-on with your comments about the United olive green and cream livery Ronnie. It doesn’t sound great on paper, but ‘in the metal’ it had a touch of class. United’s Plaxton-bodied Bristol REMHs brought in a simpler more up to date style later on, yet they still looked stunning. They even retained the scroll-type fleet names.

Brendan Smith

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17/12/12 – 13:04

Brendan, going off the subject slightly, I know a couple of United L’s have survived into preservation ‘I believe one is in Durham District livery’ but do you know of any DP versions in the reverse livery?

Ronnie Hoye

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17/12/12 – 16:39

The full list of Bristol L survivors can be found at www.bristolsu.co.uk/  but I don’t think there is an United vehicle in reverse livery. Crosville KFM 893 is in reversed livery. HHN 202 is preserved in Durham District livery as seen at www.sct61.org.uk/

Ken Jones

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19/12/12 – 07:25

I noted above that I had vague memories of a Southern Vectis vehicle in the same special livery. I’ve found it, in a bought slide from Omnicolour. If you think this is bad, just consider a Bristol FS (VDL 844 to be precise!) then go and lie down in a darkened room until you recover.

Pete Davies

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19/12/12 – 13:42

On the same link Ken Jones mentions above, you will find a picture of one of these ‘7014 HN’ plus one or two other examples of United coaches, in particular is a 1964 Leyland Loepard L2 with Plaxton Panorama body, it became part of United’s fleet when they acquired Wilkinson of Spennymoor in 1968, but they all prove the point that quiet restraint is often more dignified than ‘flash and brash’

Ronnie Hoye

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20/12/12 – 07:54

Ronnie, sorry but I don’t know if there is a United Bristol L preserved in DP livery. The only ones I’m familiar with are in bus livery – HHN 202 (Durham District green) and two red LS – rear entrance LHN 823 and front entrance LHN 860. The latter vehicle made a touching appearance at Charlie Bullock’s funeral in Scarborough in August, complementing Charlie’s United K5G towing wagon FHN 923, which provided his ‘personal transport’ for the proceedings.

Brendan Smith

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20/12/12 – 09:45

Ronnie, I’ve just been reading through comments related to United Auto Bristol LL6B NHN 128 on this splendid website, which should interest you. Present owner David Hudson comments that this vehicle is awaiting restoration following fire damage. He also states that the vehicle was converted to DP configuration in 1953, so maybe you could yet see a United L-type in reversed livery.

Brendan Smith

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20/12/12 – 16:04

Thanks for that, Brendan, if NHN 128 were to be restored as a DP that ‘length and engine size apart’ would that make a full full set of L’s as far as United are concerned? A front and rear entrance in red, a reverse livery DP and a Green Durham District, or did D/D have DP’s as well?

Ronnie Hoye

Copyright Pete Davies

Southern Vectis Omnibus Company
1954
Bristol Lodekka LD6G
ECW LD57R

KDL 414 is a Bristol LD6G with the usual ECW H60R body, still in Tilling green, but with NBC fleetname and the white stripe. She was one of ten which were borrowed at the time, and has gained a Hants & Dorset fleet number (3493) instead of her "real" one. She is in the yard of Southampton depot on a dull lunchtime in March 1974.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

A full list of Bristol codes can be seen here.

16/10/12 – 16:57

A lovely photo of an icon in design which does speak well for the quality of the Bristol and ECW product at 20 years of age. Just a little puzzled at the seating capacity which was normally 58 seats in this first tranche of 1954 Lodekkas. The 1955 build saw seating increase to 60 seats but some operators still preferred 58 seats.

Richard Fieldhouse

Info from 1963 OBF 3 South Central

Peter

16/10/12 – 16:57

One of the early LDs with long radiator grille, as used up to 1955. The red bus behind has the same type of grille. However, it was not unknown for the long and short grilles to be exchanged during overhaul.

Geoff Kerr

16/10/12 – 17:30

Here is another shot of one of these Southern Vectis early LD6G Lodekkas. KDL 401, SV fleet no.505, delivered in March 1954, is shown at St. Boniface Down on 28 August 1967. According to Bus Lists on the Web, this bus and its fellow no.518 above originally had ECW bodywork with a capacity of H33/21R. It is possible that this was increased later, as others within the same batch had H33/25R seating accommodation.

Roger Cox

17/10/12 – 08:46

I very much preferred the original long radiator grilles, as shown on the SV buses, to the later shorter ones which, in my opinion, ruined the look of the vehicles.
The reason for the 58 seat capacity is interesting. It arose because the inward facing seats were for two people instead of the normal three – due to the enormous intrusive differential housings, these being to go along with the original intention to have twin propshafts and diff’s to achieve the low height with the "highbridge" upper saloon. The first thirteen production models which West Yorkshire had (DX3-13) suffered from this lower saloon gangway handicap even though the transmission had already been revised to one propshaft and differential.

Chris Youhill

17/10/12 – 08:46

Nice to see a long grille version of the Lodekka, (always the DX in my mind) – relatively rare. ECW were really consistent in producing restrained and well-balanced designs. In view of Phil Blinkhorn’s contribution to the Ugly Bus Page and the majority response to the recent Queen Mary posting, however, perhaps it’s fortunate that they never produced a full-fronted version of the Lodekka!

Roy Burke

17/10/12 – 08:47

The seating arrangement when these 10 were with Hants & Dorset is noted in the PSVC listing (PK782) as H33/27R. I submitted this for consideration after reading the recent comments about a West Yorkshire MW regarding vehicles with the traditional livery but carrying NBC ’embellishments’.

Pete Davies

07/11/12 – 15:27

The early batches of SVOC Lodekkas were fitted with luggage racks in place of the longitudinal seats on one or both sides at the rear of the saloon, giving a total capacity of 54, 56 or 57 seats. The racks were installed for railway replacement purposes as the Island’s rail network was being run down. They were subsequently removed as more holiday makers came by car, seating capacity reverting to 60. Long radiators and split rear window – the real classic every time!

Trevor