Liverpool City Transport
1957
AEC Regent V
Metro Cammell Weymann H33/29R

A unique radiator grill I think don’t know why as the standard grill looked much better than this tin look. I also think how much better the livery would have been if there was a nice cream band between the upper and lower deck, there was far too much green on Liverpool buses.

Glasgow Corporation also had this tin front on their Regent Vs

Anonymous

The original livery had a cream band right round the bus just above the lower deck windows, and a narrower, similar one below the upper deck windows; the green was also darker. The livery in this picture dates from about 1964 I think.

Anonymous

Some of Aberdeens Gardner engined AEC Regent Vs also sported this type of grille.

Chris Hough

This type of grille was very common in the 1950s on AEC Regents and on Leyland Titans. Known colloquially as a ‘tin front’ the style was common to Regent IIIs and Regent Vs in the Liverpool fleet, 292 of them in all (A1-A292) , and from memory around 300 Titan PD2s. Very common too on Midland Red and Glasgow Corporation ‘deckers.

Anonymous

17/02/11 – 07:08

The ‘City of Liverpool’ name was not added to the coat of arms till 1965.

Anonymous

15/04/15 – 10:43

I remember these well particularly running on routes 4 and 5 from South Castle Street to Woolton, and the 4b and 5b from the Pier Head to Penny Lane. On the 4 and 5 routes, they were able to get up to a fair old speed along the dual carriageways of Menlove Avenue between Penny Lane and Woolton. The 4b and 5b ‘belt’ routes ran out to Penny Lane via Wavertree and Smithdown Road respectively, then changed route number to run back to the city centre the other way, both quite heavily trafficked routes. The Penny Lane terminus was near the ‘shelter in the middle of a roundabout’ made famous in the song, also the terminus of the 99 to Lower Lane, the 42 to Edge Lane, the 71 to South Castle Street, the 77 into town and the 46 to Walton, on which I recall for a while seeing the two single deckers, SL175 and SL176.

Mr Anon

23/01/17 – 16:35

Not strictly about this bus, but the AEC Regent V D3RVs of Liverpool had one similarity to AEC Regent III 9613A A757-806 – the gearbox sound.
Although the A757 etc batch were described as 9613As they had synchromesh gearboxes, and the later batch A1-100 were 9613S. AEC Regent Vs A101-292 and Bridgemaster E3 all sounded the same.

Paul Mason

25/01/17 – 07:32

Herewith the original Liverpool livery on this type – taken at Pier Head on 5/7/1962. At this time the cream only around the windows (to make masking for spray painting quicker, I was told) was already well under way.
It always looked to me that the bottom half of the vehicles were repainted more often than above the lower deck windows.

As an afterthought, I have also included the one and only 30fter AEC in the same livery taken at the Adelphi 26/6/1962.

Geoff Pullin

02/08/20 – 06:43

Where were the handles placed that wound the number and destination scrolls? I remember them as being under the top deck over the front right fender next to the driver’s cab. But on the photos this looks not to be the case.

Gary

03/08/20 – 06:29

I’m not sure about vehicle E1 in particular, but from what I can recall all Liverpool double decks till then had a very robust cast metal destination gear framework that was accessed by the conductor from the front bulkhead of the upper saloon and hinged out so the blinds could be adjusted and seen before being clanged back into place, usually before reaching the terminus.
The subject of changing destination blinds is fascinating in its own right! Even within the much standardised Tilling Group companies, there was no standard! It was surprisingly late in the production of the Lodekka that the double width step appeared in the front cowl instead of two widely spaced single foot holes. The first time was on the six prototype 30ft long vehicles in 1957 and then standardised in the Flat Floor series. Presumably this was to ease access for those companies that had conductor operated blinds. Bristol Tramways/Omnibus itself always used driver operated blinds with controls in the cab roof, so it would not have been imbued in its erstwhile motor constructional works designers as being an operational difficulty!

Geoff Pullin

04/08/20 – 06:38

Geoff’s comment reminded me that the PMT Atlanteans and Fleetlines 1959-1965 had a similar destination layout which the conductor changed from the top deck by hinging the unit towards him so that the destination could be set before pushing the unit back into the vertical position. These were the first double decks with separate main and via blinds.

Ian Wild

05/08/20 – 06:47

Similar on some of Trent’s vehicles. I remember heading into Nottingham with my parents one evening about 1956 (I’d be 7). Front seat upstairs on one of the pre-war Willowbrook re-bodied Regents. Conductor came upstairs, unlatched the display before my wondering eyes, turned to me and said, "Right – you wind that handle right to the end…"

Stephen Ford

20/08/20 – 05:33

Geoff Pullin comments about being unsure whether E1 had the hinged blind box of its predecessors. In fact this feature continued on the Atlanteans of the L500-L801 (at least) series which were delivered with the three-window layout. It was only with the introduction of OPO that the simplified layout with just number and terminal displays was incorporated, which could be operated from the driver’s seat.

Alan Murray-Rust

Kingston upon Hull Corporation Transport
1948
Daimler CV6G
Metro Cammell Weymann H55R

My thanks to Paul Morfitt an expert on K.H.C.T. for information regarding this bus.

“this bus entered service on the 10th June 1961 and was withdrawn in December 1966. It came from Newcastle to cover parts of the trolleybus conversions”

Does anyone have any information of this bus whilst it was at Newcastle?

These ex Newcastle Daimlers were notable for their Birmingham style bodies. Compare this photo with any HOV ### registered Birmingham City Transport Daimler. I think Edinburgh also had some like this.

Simon Avery

To see a Birmingham Daimler registration HOV 845 click here

I think that "timeless elegance" describes this classic style of body – with just a quiet air of superiority. I loved to see them in Hull, where they fitted in perfectly with the Corporation Transport Department’s image. What a magical combination arose from the KHCT and EYMS fleets in those days, and many thanks to the RAF for sending me to Patrington (Spurn Point) for my two years National Service – I couldn’t have asked for anything better.

Chris Youhill

All the second hand Regents, and Daimlers too, were bought for two reasons, firstly, as Paul said, was to facilitate trolleybus replacement, although memory seems to tell me that the Coronation trolleybuses on the 63 (Beverley Road) service were replaced directly by the early Atlanteans.  Secondly, as already noted Hull lost 2/3rds of the fleet due to air raids on 7/8th May, 1941; consequently there were large batches of Regents acquired in the post war period, as replacements. Thus in the 1960’s a large number of Regents were nearing the end of their lives, and KHCT was in the process of introducing OMO to its fleet, having a planned purchasing plan for a large number of Atlanteans which was spread over a period of some 10 years. The various batches of second hand buses were basically stop-gaps until the end of the OMO conversion. Incidentally KHCT was the first Municipal operator to achieve 100% OMO operation on both saloons and ‘deckers. This was achieved in 1972.

Keith Easton

Further to my previous comment, the losses due to Luftwaffe exploits over Hull only 1/3rd of the fleet was lost (actually 35% – 44 vehicles).

Keith Easton

03/08/11 – 16:04

These old Newcastle Daimler were great buses – had preselector gearboxes as well – they were painted dark blue and often had a blue light on next to the destination board!
Travelled a lot in them in the early 1940ties!
My favourites were FVK 198 through to FVK 201!

Stui Beveridge

04/08/11 – 07:18

What was the purpose of the blue light, Stui?

Chris Hebbron

02/10/11 – 14:05

When the Daimlers first appeared local enthusiasts thought them old fashioned mainly due to the curious windscreen arrangement (130 with a Roe body was an honourable exception) – they did not compare with the contemporary Hull Regent IIIs or the EYMS PD1s.
Authority to buy was obtained in May 1961 with a bid limit of £205 per vehicle. There is no mention in the report specifically regarding trolleybus replacement although. My own view is that they were to cover the bodywork problems on the Regent IIIs which were such that the department couldn’t cope and many went to Roe for attention. No buses were withdrawn as a result of their arrival.
Mr Pulfrey had said in May 1960 that he expected the Chanterlands Avenue route to be replaced in 1960 using spare standard 58 seat buses. The 1961 timetable did not mention services 61/65 but included replacements 13/23 but not until July 1962 did that conversion take place.

Malcolm Wells

15/03/12 – 09:30

Hi Chris, sorry for the delay as we are out and about in retirement living mainly in Düsseldorf but in winter on Gran Canaria!
Strangely – the purpose of the blue light next to the front destination board was to show at night they were so called " Blue buses " and not the new fangled bright yellow trolley buses.
Just loved travelling on these buses – favourite routes were 1 and 2 – Denton Burn / Cochrane Park / Scrogg Road etc and yes – they were quite advanced as they had pre-selector gearboxes which made life easier for the drivers.
It was wartime and the buses were very often completely packed in the rush hours or when it was pouring with rain – even upstairs – as the unions at that time had no influence on passengers carried!
Upstairs was then a disaster as the passengers were all soaking wet and damp and it was full of smokers and their gaspers! Players Please or Senior Service were favourites and poor dock workers building warships like George V or so sufficed with a cheap 5 fag paper pack of Woodbines!
Has anyone relatives or friends with any decent old Newcastle street scenes showing all these marvellous blue and yellow buses and the dark maroon trams?
Lets have your comments here please?

Stui Beveridge

16/03/12 – 08:38

Thx for the ‘blue light’ v yellow trolleybus explanation, Stui. I assume that there was an extraordinarily large part of the local populace who were colour-blind and/or deaf, not being able to detect the different noise level between the two! Seriously, it’s not commonly known that London trams had three small lights above the destination screen, so that combinations could indicate which route they were on, for the illiterate. Other systems had this, too, with some having different coloured liveries for different routes. Not a lot of use for those like me who were colour-blind!

Chris Hebbron

16/03/12 – 09:55

As many custom car enthusiasts have found to their cost, apart from emergency and specifically exempt vehicles, under current legislation it is illegal to show a blue light that is visible on any part of the to the exterior of the vehicle ‘including the underside’

Ronnie Hoye

16/03/12 – 12:40

Wigan Corporation always had two green lights either side of the destination so that locals caught "their" bus as opposed either Ribble or LUT both of whom used red as a colour as did Wigan. This arrangement lasted until the last buses delivered to Wigan in 1972.

Chris Hough

17/03/12 – 06:18

Regarding the Hull Coronations what a crying shame that none were preserved.

Philip Carlton

23/04/13 – 07:54

I am sure there was an Atlantean at Maspalomas Gran Canaria. Is it still there?

box501

13/10/14 – 17:23

Special or even no lights? Please remember at that time these buses were originally in service between 1939 – 1945 we were in the middle of a deadly serious world war on several fronts simultaneously and had more or less total black out on the streets!
Danger of invasion was later not quite so imminent but it was still there! Life was not a pony farm and quite so funny as it is to-day under the EU and Co!
In occupied Europe life was horrific with daily trains leaving most main cities with cattle trucks packed with innocent men, women and children for the concentration camps mainly in the east!

Stuart Beveridge

14/10/14 – 06:29

I wonder if Hull Corporation would have purchased these vehicles if they had had Daimler engines?

Chris Barker

15/10/14 – 07:19

Hang on, Stuart, why the seeming rebuke? This is a site for those interested in buses, not a history one. That said, I’m sure that many of us who post are ‘of a certain age’ and fully aware of the war, maybe even lived through it, as I did. I lost an uncle in both wars and years of working a 6.5 day week, in munitions work, killed my father prematurely. Knowledge of the Holocaust would not be unfamiliar to us, either.

Chris Hebbron

Leeds City Transport
1954
AEC Regent III
MCW H33/25R

Photo taken Leeds city bus station information from my now found official fleet lists my Leeds one is dated May 1964.

“TNW 757 entered service 1st December 1954. It was withdrawn 29th October 1970.
The batch 755- 759 were all then sold to Telefilm Transport Ltd in November 1970 but immediately passed on to Pickersgill & Lavery at Barnsley for scrap”

Terry Malloy

TNW 759 of this batch of five buses (755 – 759) was fitted with an experimental “self locking” fluid flywheel – a vicious device which made it very difficult to give a decent ride even for those of us who could be bothered to try – many couldn’t. This mechanical pest earned 759 the nickname of “Leaping Lena” – a title which was confirmed by a very prominent piece of “BIRO GRAFFITI” above the windscreen.

Chris Youhill

Bring back the old two shades of green livery.

Anonymous

Here here Anonymous – I couldn’t agree more strongly – AND some windows which can be seen through instead of passengers having to look at the back of zany and largely ineffective advertising !! The last time that passengers were obliged to tolerate "horse box" gloom like this was in the London Blitz of WW2 when London Transport were obliged to board up shattered windows to keep the vehicles in service.

Chris Youhill

You can have your two shades of green if we can have our various applications of blue and cream in Sheffield and Rotherham – and proper green in my current neck of Surrey!

David Oldfield

Its a deal David !!   There was no more handsome sight in Leeds Bus station than the Sheffield vehicles in cream and blue on service 67, especially sometimes the rare ECW bodied examples. As far as lovely leafy Surrey is concerned I just have to say "Bring back the immortal Godstone STLs." Quite irrelevant I admit, but my first ever car was a 1934 Standard 9 – £25 "0n the road" – which was registered in Surrey – BPE 405 and affectionately nicknamed "Beepy" for obvious reasons.
I shall now be missing for a few days as I’m having my right eye cataract removed tomorrow, and if its as excellent as the left one in February I shall be grateful and delighted.

Chris Youhill

The first Orions I ever saw were on Aldershot & District’s 1954 Dennis Lances, and at the time I thought they looked cheap and homemade, with only the nice two-tone green livery to redeem them. The Leeds Regent IIIs again prove that two greens (though very different from A&D’s) can bring a metal box to life.
SUK 3, the ex-Wolverhampton Guy Arab IV at Wythall, proves again what a fine livery can do for an Orion, which I think looks its worst in BET overall red.
For a design whose hideous incompetence shines triumphantly through any livery, I’ll go for those front-entrance Park Royal Southampton and Swindon deckers of the 1960s.
Apparently the A&D Orions were about a ton lighter than their handsome East Lancs brethren, something for which the pre-war Gardner 5LWs they inherited must have been very grateful, and Tim Stubbs tells me that the Orion batch had to be sent back to Dennises to have the springs softened to cope with the unexpected lightness!

Ian Thompson

29/10/14 – 17:24

Hi after looking through your Pages of old AEC Buses! with great memories. Can you tell me any information about the bus that I used to travel home from school on in the early 1950s in Leeds, it was on the no 42 route traveling from Harehills to Lower Wortley traveling past Harehills County Secondary School. The bus had fleet no 700, the seats on this bus were not straight backed, each seat seat bent in the middle.

David Hill

30/10/14 – 07:11

Ian Thompson makes his always informed comment about this characteristic in respect of the 1954 Dennis Lance K4s of Aldershot & District, the first 20 of which carried sturdy East Lancs bodies, but the final 12 had Weymann Orion ‘tin cans'(though these were better finished than the norm). Dennis had to reset the springing to improve the ride. I doubt that many operators went to that trouble.

Roger Cox

30/10/14 – 07:12

David, if you look at the comments on Sheffield Leyland PD2 fleet number 391 on these pages you will find references to cranked seats and Leeds 700.

Ian Wild

30/10/14 – 07:12

MCW body with Roe staircase, by the look of it.

Ian T

31/10/14 – 16:27

David 700 was a one off AEC Regent II exhibited at the 1950 Earls Court Show. As Ian mentions its seats were an effort to give greater comfort to the traveling public it remained unique in the Leeds fleet.

Chris Hough

18/01/18 – 09:05

Lovely trip down memory lane on an LCT bus. In the 60’s I was a school kid living in Halton. The trudge up Halton Hill was always a struggle, especially if the bus was full when it became a first gear thrash that used to take forever. Would these double-deckers with rear landings have been Leyland Titans and AEC Regents?

Chris Bradley