Old Bus Photos

Sheffield Corporation – Leyland Atlantean – CWB 346B – 346

Sheffield Corporation - Leyland Atlantean - CWB 346B - 346

Sheffield Corporation
1964
Leyland Atlantean PDR1/2
Neepsend H44/33F

Nice body – pity about the chassis! Neepsend produced a striking looking body (ok, I know – it was an East Lancs design) for the 20 buses delivered in 1964/5 plus a further 20 in 1966. I rather preferred this first batch with the red upholstery and red wheel centres. They also combined sliding windows and rotovents in the top deck. They were regular performers on the cross city 82 service. 348 of this batch had  ducted air saloon heating as a trial, later to become almost universal, as opposed to the underseat heaters of the remainder of the batch. The bus is in Fargate, Sheffield, nowadays pedestrianised but many of the buildings are still there.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild


02/03/15 – 07:32

Did Sheffield Corporation specify the PDR1/2 chassis in order to provide more headroom on both decks, in the same manner as the Nottingham Renowns? It’s difficult to tell from the photograph but this vehicle doesn’t look to be low height.

Chris Barker


04/03/15 – 15:45

These were 14ft 3in if memory serves me right. They were designed to fit under a low bridge at Darfield on the 70 to Upton. There were special instructions in the Drivers Handbook about both batches.

Neil Hudson


04/03/15 – 15:45

Manchester Corporation had 132 of the PDR1/2 model. At the time it was thought that this was for reasons of standardisation, in that the gearbox was the same as on the many Fleetlines in the fleet. These vehicles had Metro-Cammell "Orion" bodies to an intermediate height of 14 feet and half an inch. They sounded very different from PDR1/1 Atlanteans, the gearbox whine being very prominent.

Don McKeown


05/03/15 – 07:11

It seems a bit unlikely that Sheffield would have bought 40 A fleet buses to a special reduced height for a B service requiring perhaps two buses. I suspect that it was coincidental that they happened to fit under the bridge on route 70 but maybe a Sheffield expert can confirm this.

Ian Wild


06/03/15 – 06:41

During my time in Sheffield in the 1960s and 70s, there were three routes which required low-height double deckers – service 70 to Upton (a C route) and B routes 6 and 19 to Dinnington. The C fleet had no suitable double deckers but only one bus was needed on service 70 (joint operator Yorkshire Traction normally used saloons). All three routes were served by the B fleet’s lowbridge Regents and later by Bridgemasters from the A fleet, in which fleet there was no requirement for low-height deckers! A lot of mileage balancing must have gone on. I’ve no recollection of the Neepsend Atlanteans being so used and I’m fairly sure a saloon was used on 70 by the time I left the area in 1975.

Geoff Kerr


07/03/15 – 07:14

My understanding of the Manchester PDR1/2 situation is that there was a low(ish) bridge on a service to Partington (222/223) which was run jointly with North Western. When this service first started, MCTD didn’t have any buses to put on it. They didn’t like the idea of being a ghost operator, but neither did they like the idea of buying special buses for one route. So they changed their standard spec for both Atlantean and Fleetline bodies to the intermediate height, which required the use of the PDR1/2 chassis for the Atlanteans. All subsequent double deckers were built to this height until the Mancunians appeared.

Peter Williamson


07/03/15 – 17:14

Peter, am I right in thinking that this arrangement meant the Atlanteans and Fleetlines shared a common drive train.

Phil Blinkhorn


08/03/15 – 06:54

Phil, the PDR1/2 used the Daimler concentric drive gearbox of the Fleetline in conjunction with the dropped centre axle from the Lowlander. Daimler used its own dropped centre rear axle.

Roger Cox


08/03/15 – 16:12

Thanks Roger

Phil Blinkhorn


25/03/15 – 16:24

I think they also operated from Bridge St. on the Shiregreen route, 47 or 48? They were always parked by Firth Park shops.

Andy Fisher


 

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A Mayne & Son – AEC Regent V – 8859 VR

A Mayne & Son - AEC Regent V - 8859 VR

A Mayne & Son
1964
AEC Regent V 2D3RA
Neepsend H41/32R

8859 VR was an AEC Regent V 2D3RA with a Neepsend H73R bodywork originally with A Mayne & Son of Manchester. She was built in 1963 and delivered in January 1964 and is seen at the Wisley rally on 5 April 2009. Rumour has it this bus was exported to Japan for use as a sight seeing bus, not sure if that is true.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies


18/08/14 – 06:55

"Rumour has it . . . ." Well, I didn’t know of that one. Our editor must have added that to my caption! Updates, anyone?

Pete Davies


18/08/14 – 12:01

Apparently it went to Japan about two years ago. This is how it looked last year. www.bus-and-coach-photos.com/picture/

David Call


18/08/14 – 12:02

Picture of it in Japan with new registration number EYY 787B at www.flickr.com/photos/

Ken Jones


20/08/14 – 06:12

So, another bit of our heritage gone overseas!

Pete Davies


20/08/14 – 14:21

………and looking decidedly ropey, Pete!

Chris Hebbron


20/08/14 – 14:22

At least it’s still got its roof on !

Petras409


20/08/14 – 14:22

Happily sister vehicle 8860 VR is in the care of Manchester Transport Museum.

Chris Hough


21/08/14 – 07:02

8859 VR_2

This shot came in without name or comment. I presume it was taken when 8859 VR was in service with Maynes, it is on route 213x to Droylsden Sunnyside Road and the pub behind is/was ‘The Royal George’ which was a Vaux pub at the time, can any of you Manchester chaps confirm if I presume correctly.

Peter


21/08/14 – 08:14

The photo of 8859 VR is on Lever Street in Manchester where the direction of flow of the one-way system had been reversed. Hence the terminus had to move from its original location in Stevenson Square which is just behind the bus.

David Beilby


21/08/14 – 12:42

The picture has come from the SCT61 site, it was taken in October 1995 by which time this bus was in preservation, it was running in connection with some sort of GMTS museum/Maynes joint event. Vaux did not acquire its Manchester pubs until long after Maynes had withdrawn their Regents!

Michael Keeley


21/08/14 – 15:26

oops 8859 VR the shot without a comment, it was me !! sorry the comment seems to have floated away somewhere.
Sadly this fine vehicle was indeed exported to Japan early 2013 approx.
She was retained by Maynes and stored for many years at the Ashton road garage (now an Aldi supermarket) also at the Stuart street coach depot nearby, I visited the yard many times and stated it would be wonderful to see the bus on the road and actually was prepared to purchase the bus, Stephen Mayne told me the bus was his baby!! and would not be sold on. The bus spent some time at Maynes Warrington depot in the open and then on loan to the North West museum of transport at St Helens. She was looked after by a dedicated group of drivers and was cleaned and polished up and overhauled to take part in the 75th anniversary of Maynes running day she performed well only failing once. The photo I have submitted was taken on Lever street Manchester October 1995 whilst in service on the running day, I then jumped back on board ah that symphonic AEC gearbox and engine !! Sadly she went back into store as mentioned above and following the sad passing away of Stephen Mayne it seems the remaining directors had no interest in retaining a piece of company history such as the respected Dalaine family at Bourne, and the Goodwin family in Manchester. The bus was sold from St Helens to an enthusiast near Basingstoke I believe, finally ending up with bus dealer Mike Nash and exported to Kobe in Japan, she was used advertising a children’s charity initially, the plan was to use the bus as a London tour bus on Rokko island, she is most likely painted red by now!! But I have no further information to date, a sad loss if I had been aware she was for sale she may well still be here.
As mentioned sister bus 8860 VR is there for all to see owned by lifelong Maynes enthusiast and expert Brian Lomas well done Brian for saving here, check out his amazing views of both vehicles on his Flickr page 8860 Brian.
I have had an interest all things Mayne for many years (its an illness we all have this bus lark …but thanks to this amazing old bus photo site we can all chat and submit our photos, and information to benefit and enlighten us all many thanks) however I am desperate to view any photographs of F & H Dean of old church street Newton Heath bought out by Maynes circa 1960, but continued the Dean fleet until 1967 help please anyone!!

Mark Mc Alister


17/01/15 – 06:08

Maynes 8860 VR is in Manchester Transport Museum for all to see. //www.gmts.co.uk/

Mike Ramsden


 

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Sheffield Corporation – Leyland Atlantean – KWJ 163D – 163

Sheffield Corporation - Leyland Atlantean - KWJ163D - 163

Sheffield Corporation
1966
Leyland Atlantean PDR1/2
Neepsend H44/33F

There were 40 of these Atlanteans in Sheffield in two batches of 20. This is one of the second batch delivered with blue interiors and wheels together with three rotovents in each side of the upper deck in lieu of sliding windows. These were quite effective in extracting the tobacco fug without causing too much draught but must have been difficult to clean. A facing crossover on the Supertram network now adorns this location allowing trams to reverse in front of the cathedral. The cream and blue livery contrasts with the blackened facade of the National Provincial Bank. I liked these buses with the deep windows in each deck and a touch of modernity with the curved windscreens. Pity the transmission design was not more robust. There was a touch of local pride with the bodies being ‘Built in Sheffield’. The photo was taken in 1967 when the bus was about one year old.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild


02/03/14 – 08:19

The rotovents may have extracted smoke but they were worse than useless for providing ventilation in the heat of summer. It’s a moot point about the quality of either these or the contemporary Park Royal bodies as the transmission on the PDR1/2 gave the buses the violent shakes when the buses were at rest. This was even more pronounced if they were left in gear at a stop, traffic lights or give way signs.
Interesting operational point to ponder. The 88 went from Fulwood (one of the wealthiest parts of the city) to Roscoe Bank (a housing estate to the north – just short of Stannington). This was a common feature of cross-city routes – going from a wealthy suburb to a housing estate or a deprived &/or slum area (often in the East End). Did this happen in other towns and cities?

David Oldfield


02/03/14 – 15:42

I think I ought to defend the NatPro bank in this picture, Ian as like most buildings in Central Sheffield by that time, it looks cleaned, and is terracotta and stone. "blackened Facades" in post war Sheffield really were black- for years, people thought the Town Hall was built of coal.
As for vibrations, nothing but nothing can be worse than First’s Optare midibus on the Leeds Citybus route: at every pause, you can feel your brain being vibrated to mush. Progress- what progress?

Joe


03/03/14 – 07:35

Could anyone in the know prove or disprove the story that the wheels on Sheffield buses were red when Labour were in power and blue when the Tories were in power.
On the subject or routes running from rich to poor areas in Leeds the 2 and still run from affluent Roundhay to the vast Middleton estate in the south of the city

Chris Hough


03/03/14 – 07:36

Was this to Sheffield’s own specification, as most of the East Lancs and Neepsend output on rear engined double deckers seems to have been of the Bolton and Southampton style by this time?

Pete Davies


03/03/14 – 07:37

Have I read somewhere that Sheffield painted bus wheels according to the political party running the council? Red when Labour were in power and blue when the Tories were in charge? (the latter infrequently I would imagine)

Michael Keeley


03/03/14 – 07:38

What is the point of the blacked-out window "(not) illuminating" the staircase? Surely the point of a window is to allow light through – the only point of blacking a window out is to keep light out . . . so why build a blacked-out window in to start with?

Philip Rushworth


03/03/14 – 07:38

The pairing of services to rich and poor areas of a city to form a cross-city route may have been quite common for geographical reasons. In a typical city, richer and poorer suburbs have historically grown up on opposite sides of the centre because of the direction of the prevailing winds, the most desirable places to live being upwind of industrial pollution sources. And the most typical cross-city services tend to go from one side of the city to the other.
Fulwood to Roscoe Bank probably did not fall clearly into this pattern – both termini being basically west of centre – but I don’t know if other Sheffield services did.

Peter Williamson


03/03/14 – 15:13

Apparently the first Sheffield vehicle with blue wheel hubs was Atlantean/Park Royal No. 340, exhibited at the Earl’s Court Motor Show in 1963/4.

Geoff Kerr


03/03/14 – 16:01

Peter- this idea of joining places for routes across a city works well in its simplest form: but you wonder sometimes if it gave all drivers (and their buses) a share of the nice, quieter bits or even if the poorer areas subsidised the richer- who still had to be served. Sheffield (and Huddersfield and some other places) is not what it seems on a map. Steep river valleys mean that places in different valleys look close but are a long way apart by bus, if it has to go into town down one valley then out again up another. A trap for the unwary modern bus executive, in a safe office, miles away.
Philip- I think blacked out windows did let light in- the glass is black, not painted- think of those sinister black Saturday night specials (but now illegal up front).
And, all, I think it was thought that the blue wheels co-incided too co-incidentally with the Tories actually gaining power- but it was such an odd happening that I think people let them have their moment of glory!

Joe


03/03/14 – 16:59

Most of Sheffield’s main cross-city bus services were based on the tram routes they replaced, and over the years the tramway network had been gradually extended to serve the large housing estates as they were developed in the 1920’s and 30’s, and linking them to the industrial area of the east end where the vast majority of Sheffielders went to work every day.
One of the last extensions to the tramway system, if not the very last, was along Abbey Lane, a highly desirable area of the city where the trams ran in a central reservation amid much greenery and overall affluence. In fact, to highlight what a city of contrasts Sheffield is, the last route to be converted to buses ran from Beauchief, the site of a ruined abbey at one end of Abbey Lane, through the city centre to the aptly named Vulcan Road, a siding amid acres of forges, steelworks and soot-blackened terraced houses. And as if to add insult to injury, the cars passed right by Wards yard in Attercliffe on the way, where they were eventually reduced to scrap metal to feed those very same blast furnaces.

Dave Careless


03/03/14 – 17:03

Yes. Roscoe Bank and Fulwood are close as the crow flies – but that is up to Lodge Moor, across Rivelin Valley and down from Stannington. By 88, the distance is at least double – if not more. The route shape is more like a (open ended) paper clip with the U turn in town. The current 25 (Bradway – Woodhouse) is like a letter A. South West, North to Town and then South East.

David Oldfield


04/03/14 – 07:11

On the subject of desk wallahs not knowing the terrain a classic was the Northern Health Authority which was formed because the east and west coasts were only a few miles apart unfortunately they forgot about the Pennines!

Chris Hough


04/03/14 – 07:12

It’s difficult to tell from the photograph but were these vehicles built to normal height, i.e. 14ft 6in? If they were, then presumably the reason for specifying the PDR1/2 chassis to achieve a flat floor on the lower deck . I know Sheffield had only a minimal requirement for low height/lowbridge double deckers, surely they wouldn’t have ordered forty of them?

Chris Barker


04/03/14 – 08:26

Off the top of my head, I think that in 1966 STD had 99 (a memorable but odd number of) PDR1/2s. The balance had full height Park Royal bodies. I seem to remember that the Neepsend bodies were lower height – but how much lower I don’t know – or whether they were low-height in the accepted sense.

David Oldfield


04/03/14 – 08:28

These buses could fit under the bridge on the old 70 route to Upton, hence they were to a slightly lower overall height.
Fulwood may well be posh, but Stannington isn’t exactly the depths of poverty! It is one of Sheffield’s more desirable council estates. Roscoe Bank has now morphed into Hall Park Head after the terminus moved further up the hill as housing expanded.
The Conservatives were only in power for one year and the wheels were painted from red to blue. However, at certain times, bus wheels have been black as well as blue. It is also worth pointing out that the red line below the bottom blue band only ceased to be applied after the signwriter retired. These days, you would apply it in vinyl.

Neil Hudson


04/03/14 – 12:04

The design was not unique to Sheffield. Bury, Warrington and Coventry had identical or almost identical bodies on vehicles of the same period.
Blacked out windows did let in light but were opaque from the outside for purposes of "modesty" given their position.

Phil Blinkhorn


04/03/14 – 12:05

This style of East Lancs body was also bought by Warrington.

Chris Hough


04/03/14 – 12:05

Stannington is "very nice". Had I not had to move south with work. Stannington was always high on the list of possible places to live.

David Oldfield


04/03/14 – 15:54

The blacked out window stopped people looking at passengers going up the stairs from the outside it did let a lot of light in just like ambulances and looked the part.

Dragon


05/03/14 – 07:05

Okay, so others bought this same design. Thanks, folks, but was it actually designed FOR an operator or was it the East Lancs/Neepsend ‘standard’ of the time, which some operators (such as Bolton and Southampton) chose not to use?

Pete Davies


05/03/14 – 16:20

Pete. As far as was possible, this was an East Lancs standard design. More to the point, it was well known that there really was no such thing as an East Lancs standard as they were prepared, more than any other coachbuilder, to build a bespoke design for anyone who asked. Bolton were a case in point who had their own individual designs. Southampton’s Atlanteans were really a more modern development or evolution of this earlier design.

David Oldfield


05/03/14 – 16:22

Bolton always incorporated their own ideas into their bodies by the time Southampton bought Atlanteans a single piece wrap round windscreen was standard as was a peak to the front dome.

Chris Hough


 

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