Provincial (Gosport & Fareham Omnibus Co)
1957
AEC Regent V LD3RA
Park Royal H37/28R

Taken at Hoeford depot on 30/03/69 having been recently transferred from City of Oxford where it had been No H972 this photo shows newly painted Provincial No 60 an LD3RA AEC Regent V with a Park Royal H37/28R body registration number 972 CWL delivered to COMS in December 1957. As a fan of the AEC concealed radiator and the AEC marque in general I find this and the elegant 30ft long Park Royal body an irresistible combination, the only way the effect could be improved would be for it to be in the original superb Oxford livery. This was taken on the same occasion as my posting of the Guy Wulfrunian.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Diesel Dave

14/04/16 – 06:05

Very nice shot Diesel Dave. I too am a fan of the Regent V in all its forms and this is a most handsome version. It would indeed have looked the bees knees in City of Oxford livery, but at least in your photo it’s paintwork looks fresh – probably just repainted out of Provincial’s distinctive ‘jade’ green livery. (Don’t ask me the shade as I haven’t a clue as to what is was officially called!). The NBC leaf green and white also seems to emphasise the length of the AEC nicely, which brings me to the date of the photo Dave, as NBC corporate livery didn’t make its debut until late 1972 I’m afraid. The Regent is wearing the original white ‘Double N’ arrowhead alongside the fleetname. This was replaced some years later by the red and blue arrowhead within a white square. Sadly I did not get to know the Provincial fleet until the early ‘eighties, by which time the fleet was standardising on the Leyland National. Mind you I was fortunate in seeing Provincial’s Bristol-ECW RELL in the wonderful ‘Anniversary livery’ in Gosport a few times while staying with friends, which gave a tantalising glimpse of life before leaf green.

Brendan Smith

14/04/16 – 06:06

Very nice view, Dave. Thanks for posting.

Pete Davies

14/04/16 – 06:06

As the NBC corporate image was introduced in the summer of 1972, I don’t think the stated date in 1969 is correct.

Nigel Frampton

14/04/16 – 08:11

The "jade green" originally used by Provincial was… "Provincial Green"! When Provincial 35 (’36 Regent BOR 767) first came into preservation in 1969 and needed a repaint, Dulux were able to call up the code and make the correct shade of Dulux Coach Paint – for the first time in many years. Provincial later turned to a ‘stock’ colour (I don’t know the details of this) which was very similar, but different enough for some enthusiasts to say that the colour on 35 was ‘wrong’!

David Chapman

14/04/16 – 10:28

Very low seating capacity for a thirty foot double-decker, you would normally expect a bus of this size to be H41/32R. Must have had excellent legroom, unlike some modern buses!

Don McKeown

15/04/16 – 07:15

Yes, Don. That very discussion was included in members’ comments in respect of my contribution on the Hants & Dorset (ex Oxford Via Provincial) 975CWL.

Pete Davies

15/04/16 – 07:16

I suspect that the date is closer to 1973/4 as I seem to recall that 975CWL was in use by Hants and Dorset around then and may have been transferred around the same time.

Steve Barnett

15/04/16 – 07:17

All the Aldershot & District Dennis Lolines had 68 seat bodies by East Lancs, Alexander and Weymann, and were superb vehicles to ride in (and to drive). As Don suggests, modern buses with their closely spaced hard plastics "shaped" (but not to my contours) seating are excruciatingly uncomfortable.

Roger Cox

15/04/16 – 07:17

These buses were known as ‘Queens’ by their Oxford crews due to their sheer size. I seem to recall that the relatively low seating capacity had something to do with local union agreements, but I stand to be corrected. Sister bus H975 is preserved awaiting restoration.

Philip Lamb

British European Airways
1953
AEC Regal IV 9822E
Park Royal RDP37C

NLP 645 is an AEC Regal IV 9822E with Park Royal bodywork, new to BEA in 1953. The bodywork is described in different sources as HDC or RDC. The 2012 PSVC listing has her as RDP37C, which is a bit different! We see her during one of the infuriatingly rare open days at the Science Museum Annex, Wroughton, on 12 July 1986.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

07/04/16 – 15:00

RDP37C is the correct code – these were essentially observation coaches, but with a continuous roof-line and poorer quality "DP" style seats and interior trim. The "HD" code applied to Crellin-Duplex "half-deckers" such as the prototype which can be found on the "Ugly Bus" part of this website.

Neville Mercer

08/04/16 – 06:18

BLOTW. Under more shows 3 photos in Everyone’s photos of NLP 645 being with BEA until 1966-67 1 of the 3 photos shows coach went to the London perfume and soap house Yardleys whom were then based in Basildon Essex. NPL 641 also went to them they are seen as a pair in first of the 3 photos. It is later seen in preservation.

Alan Coulson

08/04/16 – 06:19

Thanks, Neville. These pages have carried a fair amount of debate about what is or is not a DP

Pete Davies

08/04/16 – 15:40

Manchester’s Burlingham bodied airport vehicles were always classified as "RC" by the PSV Circle, even though the level of comfort and trim was almost identical to the "RDP" London machines. I don’t think that there was any hard and fast policy- the use of the DP prefix was left to the discretion of the individual editor in the PSV Circle chain. In the case of North Western, for example, somebody at the Circle decided that the Weymann and Willowbrook 30′ DPs (the "Black Tops") were DPs despite their relatively bus-like seating and seat-pitch. The Alexander bodied 30′ Reliances of 1961 on the other hand were often described as "C41F", even though they consisted of coach interiors in a bus shell. Later in their lives (when repainted half-and-half) they were sometimes described as DP41F even though nothing had changed except their livery. I’m always very careful when I use a "DP" prefix- it’s essentially meaningless unless you go on to specify the exact configuration.

Neville Mercer

23/04/16 – 06:35

The contract to run and maintain the BEA transfer coaches between central London and the surrounding airports was held by London Transport. When the Commer Commando 18 seater observation coach fleet became due for replacement, LT convinced BEA to adopt a variant of its standard RF Regal IV saloon, albeit with a Park Royal rather than a Metro-Cammell body. The new fleet began arriving from 1952, and was classified 4RF4 by LT. In their earlier years, they saw sporadic use, some being stored in the winter months, but as air travel became more and more popular, so the BEA fleet saw increasingly heavier service. They soldiered on reliably until 1966/7 when they were replaced by front entrance Routemasters with luggage trailers. MLL 747, one of the 1953 deliveries, was withdrawn in 1967 and passed to Continental Pioneer, in whose ownership it is seen here on the A23 at Southgate, Crawley during the May 1970 HCVC Brighton Run. In May 1972 it was sold to Scout Groups in Brighton and Hove, and its subsequent fate is unclear.

Roger Cox

11/04/17 – 07:23

MLL 747 was sold to the 20th Brighton Scout troop. The Scout troop took it to summer camp at the Olympic Games in Munich 1972, I was one of the scouts. The huge luggage space came into good use. It was used to take the Scout troop to other summer camps, I remember at least one in the West Country. The coach was later sold and the troop bought a Harrington bodied coach I think a Grenadier from Unique Coaches of Brighton. A couple of photos of it in Brighton https://flic.kr/p/9nk4AM  – https://flic.kr/p/9oi6N7

Andy Gibbs

11/04/17 – 17:31

Although Roger mentions The vehicles running from Central London, the BEA ones, at least, ran from the West London Air Terminal in Kensington, to Heathrow. Here’s a link to an item about it: https://rbkclocalstudies.
The item mentions that, coming in, you could go to Central London, via the Terminal and presumably, you could pick up the vehicles in Cnetral London, too, but where?
Did the vehicles and terminal also deal with BOAC?

Chris Hebbron

07/01/19 – 07:18

Chris, as you may have found out, Ian’s Bus stop is pretty good at summarising the 4RF4 operations. The WLAT I think was only BEA – then BA per the K&C local studies link.
BOAC used their own Leyland Atlanteans from the Victoria Air Terminal (now the National Audit Office) which I think were garaged in the Heathrow area.

Ian London

09/01/19 – 06:37

To add a little to your second paragraph, Ian, the Victoria Air Terminal could well be that which was used before the war, serving the same purpose for Croydon Airport.

Chris Hebbron

10/01/19 – 06:24

The present National Audit Office was originally the Imperial Airways London Terminal, opened in 1939 to serve Croydon Airport. The war then intervened, and, with the resumption of peace, Heathrow became the airport for London, and BOAC the major carrier beyond Europe.

Roger Cox

12/01/19 – 07:04

Thx for confirming my thoughts, Roger. It must have been almost the last flourish of Art Deco architecture and duly awarded the name of the Empire Air Terminal. My favourite is the Daily Express building in Manchester, renovated not many years ago and truly beautiful, not a word I use lightly!

Chris Hebbron

London Transport
1946
Guy Arab II 5LW
Park Royal H30/26R

Here we have a Guy Arab II with a Park Royal H56R body, new to London Transport. This vehicle is part of the London Bus Preservation Trust collection, formerly at Cobham but now at Brooklands. Once more, we have a difference of information between Jenkinson and PSVC2012. Jenkinson says it has a UH56R body and dates from 1945, while the PSVC does not mention the utility element and says it dates from 1946. I’m sure that they cannot both be right, unless it was built in 1945 but did not enter service until 1946. Someone out there will know no doubt!

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

03/03/16 – 15:02

It looks like a utility to me,although possibly one of the ‘relaxed’ utility batch judging by the number of opening windows.

David Wragg

03/03/16 – 15:04

According to Ken Glazier’s London Bus File, G351 was taken into stock on 5 January 1946. Bodies constructed in 1945 were to relaxed Austerity specification with rounded front and rear domes.

John Gibson

03/03/16 – 15:05

Pete, according to the excellent Ian’s Bus Stop website, many of these Park Royal/NCB Utility-specification buses (G319-G357) didn’t enter service until January/February/March 1946. G351 is documented as entering service in February 1946. There can be little doubt that they were in fact built in late 1945 to wartime specifications, but it depends on which date we prefer to use.

Paul Haywood

03/03/16 – 15:06

I seem to have omitted the location and date when I submitted this to Peter for consideration: Wisley Airfield, on 5 April 2009.

Pete Davies

04/03/16 – 05:53

The unimpeachable authority on this subject is Ken Blacker’s book ‘London’s Utility Buses’. The final LT consignment of Park Royal H30/26R bodies on Guy Arab II chassis was delivered in two batches. G319 to 357 arrived at Chiswick between 17 November 1945 and 3 March 1946. G351 itself was accepted into stock on 3 January 1946, which certainly means that it was constructed in the last weeks of 1945. G431 to 435, the final batch of these buses and London Transport’s very last utility Guys, were accepted between 18 and 30 March 1946, and probably were built earlier in that year. G319 to 339 retained the old sliding mesh gearbox with ‘back to front’ gear lever positions and the two plate clutch inherited from the pre war Arab model. Those from G340 onwards had the new constant mesh gearbox with conventional selector positions coupled with a single plate clutch, a specification that was carried forward into the postwar Arab III. The Park Royal bodies on these last LPTB Guys made no concessions in appearance whatsoever towards the relaxed utility specifications by then prevailing. Even the stark upper deck front ventilators were retained after Weymann and Northern Counties had abandoned this feature. In fact the only ‘relaxations’ incorporated were tubular framed (cushioned) seats and winding windows. The complete vehicle with its composite construction bodywork weighed 7 tons 5 cwts, compared with 7 tons 6 cwts for the last Weymann bodied London Guy utilities and 7 tons 13 cwts for the excellent metal framed Northern Counties Arabs. All the London Transport Arabs had been withdrawn by December 1952, the newest then being just over six years old, though the indifferent quality of construction materials was evident in bodywork deterioration. Upon its sale by LT, HGC 130, the former G351, went in 1953 to the very satisfied Guy Arab operator, Burton-on-Trent Corporation who had the bodywork refurbished by Roe. Burton then ran it until withdrawal in 1967, after which it thankfully found its way into preservation.

Here are some pictures of this bus taken during the HCVC Brighton runs between 1969 and 1972 by which time some sag in the body waistrail was beginning to become evident.

Roger Cox

04/03/16 – 06:44

Thank you, gents, for your thoughts on the true date of this bus.

Pete Davies

07/03/16 – 06:23

Age apart, it is one of the most attractive utilities I have seen, only those from Southdown come anywhere near. It just shows that a good livery can lift even a mundane design.

David Wragg

27/08/17 – 09:08

I was the very lucky person who purchased G351, or Burton 70 as it was then, in 1967. I met Reg Stack a former Park Royal employee and he stated that the body was built in October 1945 and it was delivered to London Transport in November 1945, thus to my mind it is a 1945 vehicle but of course some of the ‘anoraks’ would insist that it was a 1946 vehicle. I presently own two Guy Arabs that were first licensed on the 1st January 1956 and again the ‘anoraks’ insist that they are 1956 vehicles. All I can say is that Guy Motors and Park Royal were very clever in constructing two chassis and bodies in one day and delivering to their operator!!!

John Lines

13/02/21 – 07:23

As an old Burtonian I remember HGC 130 shortly after it was integrated into the Burton Corporation fleet. It was purchased from LT along with five other utility 5LW Arab IIs, probably in 1953, and added to Burton’s modest fleet of utility Arab IIs and immediate post war Arab IIIs, all 5LW. The ex LT buses were numbered 65-70 in the Burton fleet, and were slightly different from the Burton Arab IIs in that they had smaller headlights and rails along the underside of the body, which the Burton buses didn’t have. All had Park Royal bodies except 66 which was Weymann. All the ex-LT buses were refurbished before being put out to service, and I read somewhere that the refurbishment costs exceeded the purchase cost of the original buses. They all mostly kept their utility look throughout their life, except 68 which was alleged to have collided with a low bridge not long after it arrived in Burton, and this may explain why it acquired a more modern looking front upper deck section compared to earlier. Nearly all the ex-LT buses lasted longer than the original Burton utility Arab IIs and were withdrawn 1964 to 1967. Finally as far as HGC130 or Burton 70 as I knew it, I travelled on it many times in service, and probably thought nothing much of it at the time, it was just another old bus, but would never have imagined that over 50 years on it would be preserved, and certainly in better condition than when I used it.

Old Burtonian