Crimson Tours (St Ives)
1962
Bedford SB3
Duple Super Vega C41F

675 OCV proclaims herself to be a 1962 vehicle, with Duple Super Vega bodywork in the fleet of Crimson Tours, St Ives, Cornwall. This distinction is important, as I know of two others and there may be more! I used to work with a chap from St Ives, Ringwood, Hampshire. Despite using the postcode, his mail was continually misdirected to Huntingdonshire or Cornwall. I suppose folk in those places had the same trouble. Anyway, back to the vehicle. She’s an example of the Bedford SB3, with C41F seating. We see her at Showbus, Duxford, on another day it didn’t rain, 29 September, 1996. I have severe doubts about the legality of that number plate.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

07/09/15 – 07:16

Bedford SB3 675 OCV is a valid, original and still currently in use registration, from "vehicleenquiry.gov" date first registered was 14th June 1962 with 7630cc petrol engine.
Details from "buslistsontheweb" are;
675 OCV Bd SB3 88799 Du 1145/55 C41F 8/1962 New to Crimson,St Ives.

07/09/15 – 07:19

Lots of other pictures of it found via googling the reg No.
They all have White on Black plates, I wonder if, at the time of your photo, the owners had experimented with the more modern reflective plates and fitted them the wrong way round with the Black on Yellow at the front.

John Lomas

08/09/15 – 07:00

Could a misprint have slipped in somewhere? 7630cc sounds like a pretty hefty engine for an SB!

Ian T

08/09/15 – 07:01

To clarify, I’m in no doubt that the registration is correct. What puzzles me is the use of black on white plate at the back. As John Lomas suggests, they may have been fitted incorrectly.

Pete Davies

08/09/15 – 07:02

I photographed this coach at a rally on 24 August 2015 and it had white on black number plates. www.ipernity.com/doc/davidslater-spoddendale/

David Slater

09/09/15 – 07:14

David, I notice on your photo, the rear bumper trim has been fitted. I could be wrong ‘not unusual’ but in the days of black number plates, weren’t these made of glass or perspex and illuminated from behind?

Ronnie Hoye

09/09/15 – 07:15

The standard engine for a Bedford SB3 is the Bedford 300 ci. 4.927L Petrol unit so if VOSA website has this correct I recon it can whizz up hills without changing down the gears with no problems.

Ron Mesure

09/09/15 – 07:16

The coach looks all the better for the black on white number plates as in David’s photo, and also appears to have acquired a rear bumper too. Back as nature intended!

Brendan Smith

14/09/17 – 06:51

Regarding the unusual number plate in the picture above, I think all we are seeing is a standard plastic black on yellow plate behind the glass but the yellow has faded which did happen in period to some early plates. Having new correct white on black raised character plates is vastly better!

Richard Leaman

15/09/17 – 06:34

With regard to the engine, 7630cc sounds like the capacity of the Bedford diesel engine fitted to the YRQ. So I reckon that’s what it’s got, and someone has forgotten to change the fuel type in the registration details.

Peter Williamson

16/09/17 – 06:56

675 OCV still has its 300 cu in (4.9 litre) petrol engine.
DVLA listing is wrong.

John Wakefield

Priory Coaches (Gosport)
1935
Bedford WTL
Duple C20F

Here we have a Bedford WTL with Duple C20F bodywork from 1935. She is seen in the livery of Cyril Cowdray (Priory Coaches) of Gosport, another operator put off the road after upsetting the Traffic Commissioner once too often. She was new to Blunt, Mitcham, and spent some time on the Isle Of Man as CMN 986 before returning to the UK. The scene is an Open Day at the Provincial depot, Hoeford, on 8 June 1985.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

10/08/15 – 11:24

This coach has been with J. W. Lodge & Sons of High Easter for some years undergoing a thorough rebuild however I think it was put to one side while they were restoring their Ford T. I believe that their ultimate aim is to have a representative vehicle from each decade that the company has been operating. Since they are well in to their tenth decade that’s quite a fleet of historic vehicles!

Nigel Turner

10/08/15 – 16:04

Thank you, Nigel. Yes, it will be a VERY impressive collection when they decide that it’s complete. "Now, have we room in the garage for another OB?"

Pete Davies

11/08/15 – 16:49

Pete,
The whole Lodge operation is very impressive and a credit to the three generations who have built it up over the last 95 years. I have no idea why I referred to them restoring a Ford T in my earlier comment, it is a 1926 Chevrolet

Nigel Turner

25/06/20 – 07:19

Lodge are still very active, but their vintage fleet now consists of Bedfords’ OB, SB, YMT and said Chervolet Charabanc. Sadly, no mention of the WTB.

Chris Hebbron

27/06/20 – 06:44

The WTB project was on display at an event at Lodge’s premises on 24 March 2019. At the time there was a lot of work to do on the vehicle.

David Slater

28/06/20 – 06:56

"I was intrigued about the Bedford WTL chassis, as it seems to have led a rather shadowy life. There is little written about it, either, but some research revealed the following.
The first Bedford chassis designed for PSV use was the WHB, built from 1931 to 1933, for a 14-seat body. Only 102 were ever sold. The larger WLB chassis quickly followed, with greater success, with over 2000 built between 1931 and 1938, when production ceased.
The WTL chassis was a three-ton lorry chassis, modified to sell as a still-larger PSV, but was not popular as a passenger vehicle in any great numbers, initially with just over 200 being built as such in its first two years, 1935 and 1936, but, nevertheless, it soldiered to receive passenger bodies in penny numbers until 1939. One’s or two’s describe the numbers bought by most operators, although, in 1935, Vauxhall had at least four in use for staff transport, Walter Alexander bought five and at least eight were exported to the Netherlands. Bodybuilders were varied, with small orders using Robson, Thurgood, Wilmott and Willowbrook, Unsurprisingly, however, the majority were bodied by Duple, although, in 1939, several of them were bodied by Plaxton. Those which went to the Netherlands were bodied by two firms, Werkspoor (Amsterdam) and Jurgens.
The WTL could, in retrospect, be considered a stop-gap chassis, its far more successful compatriot being the three feet longer WTB, introduced in late 1935..
However, the WTL (as well as the WTB) chassis were upgraded in 1938, which included an all-metal cab area with redesigned front wings. The radiator grill/bonnet area became rounded and modern-looking, foretelling the future OB front, minus radiator cap!. Engine power was increased from 64 to 72bhp."

Chris Hebbron

28/06/20 – 10:01

One little titbit I omitted from my post of 28/06/20 was that the redesign of the front ends in 1938 was a joint venture with Duple.

Chris Hebbron

28/06/20 – 10:03

BXM 568 Bedford WTL Duple C20F chassis No 875523 body No 5058
New to W E Blunt t/a Mitcham Belle, Mitcham 6/35
5/38 B B Atkinson, Douglas, IoM re reg as CMN 986
4/39 J W A Wightman, Onchan, IoM t/a Sunny Hours Coaches
9/61 L Q Keen, Douglas, IoM (not operated)
4/62 Kirkby Central, Anston (dealer) reverted to BXM 568
5/68 G A Arnold, Holmesfield (preservation)
11/71 Geoffrey Pitt t/a Doug Jones Coaches, Littleton
-/73 Howard Herridge, Gosport (preservation)
-/75 C Cowdrey t/a Priory Coaches, Gosport (later stored in Mid Hants railway yard at Medstead)
6/93 Ray Dodds, Fareham (preservation)
circa -/03 Len Carter, Fareham (dealer) but not moved from Ray Dodds premises)
2/08 Lodge Coaches, High Easter for restoration & eventual return to service in Heritage Fleet.

John Wakefield

02/06/21 – 08:48

I thought this might be of interest to visitors to this site, a newspaper article which appeared in the Fraserburgh Hearld and New Counties Advertiser, 13 January 1931. The article relates to my Gt.Gt Grandfather George Jaffray from Rosehearty, Fraserburgh, who was a master joiner and local businessman. George was fined 25 shillings in the first case of its kind in the Sheriffs Court, for allowing a motor omnibus for which he owned to ply for hire without having painted in conspicuous place the total number of passengers which the vehicle was allowed to carry.

Clive Taylor

Hutchison of Overtown
1966
Ford R192
Duple C45F

FVA 462D a Ford R192 with Duple C45F body, it was new to Hutchison of Overtown in 1966. She’s seen at the Wisley Rally on 5 April 2009, but I’ve never (knowingly) seen a vehicle in Hutchison livery. Is this the original livery of Hutchisons?

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies.

25/03/15 – 08:49

Hutchison’s livery was a rather striking two-tone blue (without any cream/white relief). Could the "Uckfield" destination blind give a clue to a later operator? I can remember this vehicle being advertised for sale in B&CP about ten years ago, wearing the same livery as in this photo’, so it’s been painted like this for quite a while.

Neville Mercer

25/03/15 – 16:22

Thank you, Neville. I had an idea it wasn’t Hutchison’s livery. I’ll continue to list the operator as "Unknown" in my database unless or until someone can identify the livery . . .

Pete Davies

28/03/15 – 09:44

I’ve been trawling through old copies of B&CP, and the ad appeared in several issues in 2010 (so not ten years ago!). At that time the vehicle was owned by Bob Hunt of Halesowen in the West Midlands.

Neville Mercer

28/03/15 – 14:38

Thanks for these latest thoughts, Neville. She appears to reside in the vicinity of Sheffield Park (not Sheffield as the PSVC 2012 listing has her!) the home of the National Trust gardens and the Bluebell Railway.
The vehicle is totally anonymous in respect of fleet name and legal lettering, though I have found a reference to Hutchison amid the notes on Wishaw, which says the firm, with its blue and cream buses, sold out to FIRST some years ago. It suggests, then, that this might in fact be the original livery.
Any more suggestions, anyone?

Pete Davies

29/03/15 – 17:26

To clarify my comments on Hutchison’s livery, at the time that this vehicle was delivered their coach colour scheme was two-tone blue. Some vehicles did have cream window surrounds, but the dark and pale blue were the predominant colours. The plainer pale blue/cream livery came in after the time of this particular machine unless they kept it for much longer than was their usual practice. Does anybody have a shot of it when in service with Hutchison?

Neville Mercer

29/03/15 – 18:48

FVA 462D is owned by Nick White of Sheffield (the Yorkshire town NOT Sheffield Park) as a preserved vehicle. There are numerous pics of it on Flickr including some recent ones of it with White’s fleet names, a personal livery applied by Mr White.

John Wakefield

30/03/15 – 07:59

How very interesting, John! So, what’s the UCKFIELD connection?

Pete Davies

30/03/15 – 09:29

A previous preservation owner Terry Smith lived at Uckfield, he sold it back to Bob Hunt 9/09 & it passed on again to White 8/10.

John Wakefield

30/03/15 – 12:38

Thanks, John

Pete Davies

17/09/18 – 06:32

Here’s a shot of FVA462D apparently in its original colours. www.whitesnostalgiccoaches.co.uk

David Call

17/09/18 – 09:00

The site appears to be down but the coach appears on another: https://sites.google.com/site/ It seems to be their only coach and possibly they run other wedding transport too.

Joe

18/09/18 – 07:18

The point of the link I posted yesterday (but which won’t now come up) was that it showed the vehicle in what I presume was Hutchison colours – this was in response to Neville Mercer’s request for a shot of it when in service with Hutchison. Actually I think the shot showed it when it was Baird of Dunoon, but I’m pretty sure that it retained Hutchison livery.
The same shot is here, but I can’t isolate it. https://www.google.co.uk/:

David Call

22/09/18 – 06:51

Re Hutchinsons Ford R192 FVA 462D. This is to my knowledge the only Ford R192 survivor with a Duple ‘Empress’ body.
This is the same as a Bella Venture body as fitted on a Bedford VAM5 of which currently two roadworthy examples survive.
Strange that ‘White Nostalgic Coaches’ web site is now no longer live. Strangely I can find no bus/coach company of that name registered in the Sheffield area on the Vehicle Operator/Licencing Service web site.
Looks like it maybe being operated under another coach companies licence!

John Wakefield

22/07/19 – 05:23

Now resident with the South Yorkshire Transport Trust and not currently taxed.

Peter Williamson

25/07/19 – 07:05

Still owned by Nick White according to SYTT web site.

John Wakefield