Liverpool City Transport
1957
AEC Regent V
Metro Cammell Weymann H33/29R

A unique radiator grill I think don’t know why as the standard grill looked much better than this tin look. I also think how much better the livery would have been if there was a nice cream band between the upper and lower deck, there was far too much green on Liverpool buses.

Glasgow Corporation also had this tin front on their Regent Vs

Anonymous

The original livery had a cream band right round the bus just above the lower deck windows, and a narrower, similar one below the upper deck windows; the green was also darker. The livery in this picture dates from about 1964 I think.

Anonymous

Some of Aberdeens Gardner engined AEC Regent Vs also sported this type of grille.

Chris Hough

This type of grille was very common in the 1950s on AEC Regents and on Leyland Titans. Known colloquially as a ‘tin front’ the style was common to Regent IIIs and Regent Vs in the Liverpool fleet, 292 of them in all (A1-A292) , and from memory around 300 Titan PD2s. Very common too on Midland Red and Glasgow Corporation ‘deckers.

Anonymous

17/02/11 – 07:08

The ‘City of Liverpool’ name was not added to the coat of arms till 1965.

Anonymous

15/04/15 – 10:43

I remember these well particularly running on routes 4 and 5 from South Castle Street to Woolton, and the 4b and 5b from the Pier Head to Penny Lane. On the 4 and 5 routes, they were able to get up to a fair old speed along the dual carriageways of Menlove Avenue between Penny Lane and Woolton. The 4b and 5b ‘belt’ routes ran out to Penny Lane via Wavertree and Smithdown Road respectively, then changed route number to run back to the city centre the other way, both quite heavily trafficked routes. The Penny Lane terminus was near the ‘shelter in the middle of a roundabout’ made famous in the song, also the terminus of the 99 to Lower Lane, the 42 to Edge Lane, the 71 to South Castle Street, the 77 into town and the 46 to Walton, on which I recall for a while seeing the two single deckers, SL175 and SL176.

Mr Anon

23/01/17 – 16:35

Not strictly about this bus, but the AEC Regent V D3RVs of Liverpool had one similarity to AEC Regent III 9613A A757-806 – the gearbox sound.
Although the A757 etc batch were described as 9613As they had synchromesh gearboxes, and the later batch A1-100 were 9613S. AEC Regent Vs A101-292 and Bridgemaster E3 all sounded the same.

Paul Mason

25/01/17 – 07:32

Herewith the original Liverpool livery on this type – taken at Pier Head on 5/7/1962. At this time the cream only around the windows (to make masking for spray painting quicker, I was told) was already well under way.
It always looked to me that the bottom half of the vehicles were repainted more often than above the lower deck windows.

As an afterthought, I have also included the one and only 30fter AEC in the same livery taken at the Adelphi 26/6/1962.

Geoff Pullin

02/08/20 – 06:43

Where were the handles placed that wound the number and destination scrolls? I remember them as being under the top deck over the front right fender next to the driver’s cab. But on the photos this looks not to be the case.

Gary

03/08/20 – 06:29

I’m not sure about vehicle E1 in particular, but from what I can recall all Liverpool double decks till then had a very robust cast metal destination gear framework that was accessed by the conductor from the front bulkhead of the upper saloon and hinged out so the blinds could be adjusted and seen before being clanged back into place, usually before reaching the terminus.
The subject of changing destination blinds is fascinating in its own right! Even within the much standardised Tilling Group companies, there was no standard! It was surprisingly late in the production of the Lodekka that the double width step appeared in the front cowl instead of two widely spaced single foot holes. The first time was on the six prototype 30ft long vehicles in 1957 and then standardised in the Flat Floor series. Presumably this was to ease access for those companies that had conductor operated blinds. Bristol Tramways/Omnibus itself always used driver operated blinds with controls in the cab roof, so it would not have been imbued in its erstwhile motor constructional works designers as being an operational difficulty!

Geoff Pullin

04/08/20 – 06:38

Geoff’s comment reminded me that the PMT Atlanteans and Fleetlines 1959-1965 had a similar destination layout which the conductor changed from the top deck by hinging the unit towards him so that the destination could be set before pushing the unit back into the vertical position. These were the first double decks with separate main and via blinds.

Ian Wild

05/08/20 – 06:47

Similar on some of Trent’s vehicles. I remember heading into Nottingham with my parents one evening about 1956 (I’d be 7). Front seat upstairs on one of the pre-war Willowbrook re-bodied Regents. Conductor came upstairs, unlatched the display before my wondering eyes, turned to me and said, "Right – you wind that handle right to the end…"

Stephen Ford

20/08/20 – 05:33

Geoff Pullin comments about being unsure whether E1 had the hinged blind box of its predecessors. In fact this feature continued on the Atlanteans of the L500-L801 (at least) series which were delivered with the three-window layout. It was only with the introduction of OPO that the simplified layout with just number and terminal displays was incorporated, which could be operated from the driver’s seat.

Alan Murray-Rust

United Automobile Services
1964
Bristol Lodekka FLF6B
ECW H38/32F

I am not sure if the Lodekka actually had a version number i.e. I, II, III as the Regent III, V for example if any body knows please let me know. I did like these front entrance Lodekka’s, the three things I remember most is the low step to get on, how brightly light the interior was at night but best of all was the whine of the engine, being used to AEC and Leyland’s at home the Bristol or Gardner engines were very different.

A full list of Bristol codes can be seen here.

A full list of United codes can be seen here.

———

The best United engine noises of all were the final batch of Bristol FLF Lodekkas delivered between January and May 1968. These F-registered machines were fitted with Gardner engines and were the first non-Bristol engined buses in the fleet. A Bristol-type whine was accompanied by a very powerful growl as I remember – very impressive. Also, this final batch were even brighter inside than normal. The interior panelling was finished in all-over cream formica as opposed to the normal dark green which made them feel light, spacious and very modern. They were lovely vehicles to ride on!

Incidentally, you may like to know that I am the author of a book on United’s buses entitled ‘One And Two Halves To The Clock’, which is my own story of growing up as a lad in the 1960s in Redcar, North Yorkshire – a seaside town deep in United territory!

Colin Plucknett

———

Although Lodekkas did not have version numbers as such (ie: Series I, II, III etc), they were split into two broad types – namely LD and F-Series models. The original LD (Low-height Double-decker) series had a slightly sunken lower deck gangway, with the pairs of seats either side of it in effect raised above it. A longer version (LDL) made its debut in 1957, but only a handful were built. As the Lodekka developed over the years, a revised model was introduced. Known as the F (Flat floor) Series, this had as the name implied, a flat floor throughout the lower deck. It was available in four variants: FS (Flat floor, Standard/Short chassis); FL (Flat Floor, Long chassis); FSF and FLF (as for FS and FL, but with the second F denoting a forward entrance chassis). Interestingly, the Bristol BVW engine fitted to many a Lodekka from 1958 onwards did have version numbers. As the BVW evolved, engines became known as Series I, II and III, and could be identified by the serial number stamped on the engine plate. BVW1xxx denoted Series I, BVW2xxx were Series II, and BVWs numbered 3xxx/4xxx etc were Series III.

Brendan Smith

———

There was a final variation to the FLF series: the very impressive 31ft FLF6LX models, with semi-automatic gearboxes, as operated by Eastern National. Several of them started life with coach seating for the X10 Southend-London Victoria service. In their heyday, around 24 of the 40 plus that ENOC had were allocated to the long 151/251 working from Southend to North London (Wood Green): a 2hr 40min one way trip! Also, one or two were regularly featured on the "On the Buses" TV show.
As a Conductor, these were wonderful vehicles to work on, especially on the long haul routes. I also believe the Scottish Bus Group had some as well. They’re the only two operators I know that used them. Any others, anyone?

Mike Harper

———

05/06/11 – 14:28

Eastern National’s FLF coaches certainly were real stunners Mike, and the 31-footers were handsome machines in either bus or coach form. As you rightly say, several of ENOCs Wood Green FLF6LXs featured in ‘On the Buses’ and were to many of us the real stars of the show. (I wonder if Reg Varney and Doris Hare realised just how privileged they were to work alongside such venerable icons!). At least AEV811F and AVW399F took part in the series masquerading as buses of the Luxton & District Traction Company – and wasn’t it a quirk of fate that the ‘AVW’ registration was on a Gardner-powered bus? You are correct in saying that only ENOC and the Scottish Bus Group took delivery of 31-footers – sadly for some reason they didn’t find favour anywhere else.
Relating to the semi-automatic FLFs, I was fortunate enough to ride on Leyland 0.600 engined Hants & Dorset example when on holiday with friends in the 1970s. I had not realised the FLF had either feature until it started up and set off. The pronounced gear whine puzzled me, and it was only in later years I found out this was due to extra gearing in the transmission line. On manual gearbox Lodekkas the gearbox was mounted directly behind the engine, with the drive being taken downwards and slightly to the offside by the design of the gearbox. However, as the semi-auto ‘box was of a bulkier nature, this unit was mounted on the offside of the chassis. The drive was taken downwards and to the offside from the back of the flywheel to the gearbox, using a train of gears – hence the unusual whine emitted. It certainly added a certain character!

Brendan Smith

Leeds City transport
1957
AEC Regent V
Roe H60R

Yet another example of a Regent V with a Regent III radiator. If I remember Leeds city Transport buses were nearly all semi automatic or had clutch less gearboxes of some description probable to help them off to quick start from the bus stops.

894 is the last of a huge batch which were ordered as tram replacements. The next batch numerically were fitted with 8′ wide bodies.

Terry Malloy

The last batches of post-war LCT buses to have full three pedal "clutch and gearbox" transmission were the Crossleys, the Leyland PD1s, the sixty Leyland PD2s (NNW batch), the six "standee" single deckers (2 Guy, 3 AEC Reliance and 3 Leyland Tiger Cub) – so rather more than is generally realised !!

Chris Youhill

Hi everyone,
I meant to post this link a while ago, finally got around to it.
www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=39972
It shows the first delivery of these vehicles to Torre Road Depot.

Terry Malloy

I think the reason for preferring clutchless transmissions, in common with several other municipal operators, was the need to retrain large numbers of tram drivers in a very short time. Far fewer people owned cars in those days, and many of those tram drivers would never have driven a motor vehicle.
What about the PD2/11s (UUA batches)? I know some of them were specials with pneumo-cyclic transmission, but I didn’t think they all were.

Peter Williamson

The last manual gearbox double deckers were the sixty "NNW" Leyland PD2s. All subsequent double deck vehicles being semi automatic of one kind or another. Thereafter all AECs and Daimlers were either three pedal pre-selector or two pedal "monocontrol." All Leylands were two pedal pneumo-cyclic with the exception of the batch of ten "RNW"s (301 -310) which were three pedal pre-selector, and were the only ones made other than the London Transport RTLs and RTWs. Passionately wishing to drive one of the latter, I booked a piece of teatime overtime out of Bramley and persuaded a bemused but helpful shift foreman to let me take 307, one of the only two remaining at the time – a great experience !!

Chris Youhill

31/07/12 – 05:43

The clutch you are referring to was a gear changing pedal (NOT A CLUTCH) they were known as preselctors, I used to love to drive them brings back memories going up Churwell Hill in the old girls, (52/53 Morley)

Roger Hopper

07/11/12 – 16:47

Snivelling out of Bramley Chris? You’re very lucky one of the PD1s wasn’t compulsory for you! When we had these at Torre Road Garage (301 – 310) we used to complain bitterly that they wouldn’t "Pull" up hills. Scott Hall Road 69 & 70 routes used to see old Hunslet MK3s flying past us. The regular Bramley drivers (used to PD1s & PD2s used to use a form of "double declutching" on these and other preselector buses – preselecting neutral between gears. Don’t know if this helped or not. Perhaps the Bramley mechanics knew how to tune them up properly as I never heard of any complaints about lack of power when the Bramley drivers got hold of them.

Bill Midgley

08/11/12 – 07:16

Most interesting memories Bill, thank you, and I had forgotten or was never aware that the "RTL"s had been at Torre Road. On that one joyous occasion that I drove 307 I found it went very well – unless I was mesmerised by the wonderful concerto of gurglings, compressed air hissings and tick over wobblings so as not to notice, and of course there were virtually no real hills on that particular piece of work, the entire outward journey from Bramley in the west to Barnbow Factory in the east being "private." The Bramley practice you mention of "double de-clutching" is completely unorthodox, baffling, and quite un-necessary, and surely can have no advantage at all – in fact it entirely defeats the object of faultless gear changes for which the system was invented !!

Chris Youhill

08/11/12 – 11:12

Ah, but it must have been harder to fiddle a CVD or CWD like. The gearchange was not an H-gate but a quadrant, so the neutral position was not between the gears. Having said that, the sheer driver-crippling vindictiveness of the change pedal has entered the annals of bus folk-lore!

Stephen Ford

10/11/12 – 10:20

Chris, these buses were new to Torre Road Garage and serviced the 69 Moortown and 70 Primley Park via Scott Hall Road services. The crews were on the TRG Rota – the precursor to getting a "Regular" on a main route.
At TRG, these were :- Dewsbury Road – Moortown – Middleton, Morley – Meanwood, East End Park Circular (included Moortown-Whitkirk & Leeds – Bradford), Lawnswood – Beeston, Half Mile Lane & Compton Road – Horsforth. Nearly everyone wanted to get onto Lawnswood because it had the best duty sheets – usually two "dinnertimes" in a late week. I worked out of TRG from 1958 – 1960 and had a "Regular" on Dewsbury Road before I went off to Headingley. When I first started, I was the youngest conductor on LCT being eighteen and two weeks! Ah! Those were the days – or maybe not!

Bill Midgley

06/01/15 – 05:42

Here’s a Pathe News clip of one of the Monocontrol Regent V’s being driven by a one-legged driver. //www.britishpathe.com/video/monocontrol-bus-aka-revolutionary-bus/query/leeds+buses

Chris Hebbron

07/01/15 – 06:26

Chris the one legged driver was John Rafferty the long time chairman of the council transport committee. The film was shot at Torre Road depot.

Chris Hough

08/01/15 – 06:43

Breath-holding shots of Alderman Rafferty climbing unaided into this Roe half-cab using his one leg and his crutch.

Joe