Photo by ‘unknown’ if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

West Yorkshire Road Car Company 
1951
Bristol LL5G
ECW B39R

The LL was just a longer version of the L with a body width of 7’ 6” the LW that had a body width of 8’ 0” and the LWL was the longer 8ft wide version. This bus went into service at West Yorkshires Harrogate depot in 1951 with a fleet number of 418, it was in 1954 when the new different fleet numbering system came into being and 418 became SGW 1.

A full list of Bristol abbreviations can be seen here

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By looking closely at the wheels of SGW1, it can be seen that they are inboard of the mudguards by quite a distance. This is due to it having an 8ft wide ECW body on a 7ft 6ins wide Bristol LL5G chassis. Quite a few of the ‘Tilling’ fleets operated such vehicles, as it was a way of utilising supplies of the outgoing narrower chassis, whilst taking advantage of the increase in overall vehicle width then recently introduced. The 8ft wide version of this body could be identified by its split rear window – which had a pillar down the centre – as opposed to the single piece version on the narrower body. Still a handsome looking bus though isn’t it?

Brendan Smith

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As I’ve written elsewhere Brendan, in my opinion this design of body, in all its versions, was the finest looking and most practical of any in the "front engined" era – and constructed to the usual high ECW quality as well.

Chris Youhill

Tyneside Omnibus Company
1965
Leyland Atlantean PDR1/1
Alexander H43/32F

Tyneside Omnibus Company were a subsidiary of Northern General, they may of run a more local service than the very large area that Northern General did. If you know, let me know, please leave a comment. Typical of most rear engined buses of this era it had the “bustle” look at the rear, it was a year or two later before the enclosed look at the rear appeared on the scene.

I remember these buses when I was a kid in the 60’s early 70’s. Tyneside ran the service from North Shields to Newcastle via Wallsend. Their depot was based in Wallsend and they never used service numbers – only the destination. People on North Tyneside simply called it "the green bus" service. They later adopted the service number 13 and ran it jointly from Wallsend with the Tyne Wear PTE. It later became service 313.

Bryan Scott

We used to get the 313 across from the Railway pub (now the Bogey Chain) outside Bridon ropeworks (Haggies) back in the early/mid 70’s.

RB

The Tyneside bus service travelled from North Shields to Newcastle via Howden and Willington Quay, through Wallsend, Walker, Byker, it’s terminus in Newcastle was beside the BBC Broadcasting House premises.

Allan Long

I recall seeing Tyneside Leyland bodied PD 2/12s waiting at the North Shields terminus at the top of Borough Bank. They always looked purposeful and turned out immaculately.

Gerald Walker

The Tyneside Omnibus Company had originated as a tram operator and in the 70s and 80s the drivers were still members of the tram driver’s union and not the TGWU. They operated only one or two routes between North Shields and Newcastle, where the terminus was in Croft Street, in front of the BBC offices. I don’t know if Croft Street still exists; if not it was almost diagonally opposite to the Laing Art Gallery. It was a small but very profitable depot, and the buses were generally very well maintained, which was not always the case with its Northern General Transport stable-mate, Tynemouth and District Transport. There was a friendly rivalry between the Tyneside and Tynemouth drivers who shared a canteen just off Wallsend High Street.

Tom Graham

06/05/11 – 06:54

This was the bus I used to go back and forward to school on, St Aidans It would often struggle up Rose bank with a full load of school kids on it

Mark Nugent

15/05/11 – 06:45

Croft Street still exists.
The bus stop was by "Boydell’s" toy & Model Shop.
I spent many a journey from North Shields to Newcastle on this Companies Buses. If memory serves me well there was a "German Barbers" by the terminus on Borough Road. I also used them when I used to work at Willington Quay.

Stew Smith

17/05/11 – 11:15

Ah – that would be Herr Cutt!

Stephen Ford

07/06/11 – 09:32

Tyneside Buses always had brown leather seats unlike the Moquette used on Tynemouth Buses. There was a conductress who worked for years on the route who always wore a man’s uniform cap. Before moving to Hadrian Road the depot was on Neptune Bank in Wallsend.Repaints were usually carried out at Tynemouth’s Cullercoats Paint Depot in John Street.
I also remember that the Fleet-names were not of the usual gold and underlined style. Instead TYNESIDE was in white block capitals which together with there being no route number display gave quite an independent company look to the fleet.

Brian

20/07/11 – 05:50

I believe that the company were known as Tyneside Tramways and Tramroads and one of their services was to run trams from Wallsend to Gosforth Park Racecourse. They may have run from Tynemouth but this was all before my time.
The route ran what was then cross country, I think through Biggse’s Main, somewhere near Tyneview Park, through West Moor and into the east side of Gosforth Park. I understand that this route was taken to avoid crossing the then Newcastle City boundary where there was possibly a monopoly operated by the city council. Parts of the tramway can still be found today.
When I was young, in the 1940’s, they only had one route, that from Croft Street, Newcastle to Borough Road, North Shields, every ten minutes. This was run by buses but the original tramroads name was still printed on their tickets.
The service was well known for its exceptional punctuality. It was always said that you could set your watch by the green bus service.
The photograph above shows the bus waiting at Croft Street, Newcastle, outside the BBC studio (old maternity hospital). This building still exists although it is just out of this picture, to the right.

mked

10/08/11 – 13:49

Used the ‘Green Bus’ regular from North Shields to Howden where my Auntie lived. No numbers, just the destination. Terminus at North Shields on Borough Road did have a barbers next to it and yes he was a German. We referred to it as ‘Herr Cut’ Also spent many hours at Tynemouth’s Percy Main Depot as my grandmother worked in the canteen there. Used to go out with the crews and went all over the area for free. Great days.

Ronnie Vincent

23/12/11 – 12:19

Northern’s Percy Main depot ‘Tynemouth and Wakefields’ had several routes that criss crossed Tyneside’s route, this didn’t cause any problems because our buses were in Northern’s maroon livery and displayed route numbers, and everyone only ever called Tyneside ‘The Green Bus’ however, during the summer months we often needed extra vehicles to run duplicates on the coastal routes. If they were Northern red or Sunderland District blue they could be used anywhere, but if ‘as often happened’ they were Tyneside buses, they had to be kept well away from Wallsend or Howdon ‘Howden is in Yorkshire’ otherwise all hell would break loose when regular ‘Green Bus’ passengers discovered they’d boarded the wrong bus.

Ronnie Hoye

24/12/11 – 06:49

P.S. to my previous comments about Tyneside’s buses. Most of the Northern group used ‘Setright’ ticket machines, but Tyneside had the multi coloured pre printed type used by Newcastle Transport. I don’t know the reason but it may go back to the trams, as I believe that from Wallsend boundary to Newcastle City Centre, Tyneside’s trams ran on Newcastle Corporations tracks. Does anyone know?

Ronnie Hoye

23/02/12 – 17:42

Further to Ronnie’s last query, Tyneside trams did run on Corporation tracks between Wallsend Boundary and Stanhope Street in Newcastle; Stanhope Street was just off Westgate Road and not far from Wingrove tram (and later trolleybus) depot. Tyneside motormen received additional pay when operating over Corporation metals but their cars carried Corporation conductors on this section and all revenue (except for a mileage allowance of 2d per mile operated!) went to the Corporation. When first constructed the track at Wallsend Boundary was continuous but the overhead wasn’t and this had to be connected when through running was eventually agreed.
With regard to Brian’s comments, Tyneside cars didn’t run to Tynemouth (and on to Whitley Bay with dreams of extending further) but through running was impossible as Tynemouth’s trams ran on a 3’6" gauge whereas Tyneside used standard gauge. There was, however, a very short section of interlaced track close to the North Shields termini which, I believe, was the only such example in the British Isles.
The Gosforth Park route ran via Bigges Main, across Benton Road, in between what is now the Ministry (DWP) at Longbenton and what is now the Freeman Hospital), South Gosforth and the Great North Road although Tyneside did have running powers over Corporation metals on the route Brian mentions but these powers were only exercised for a short time and were used only by excursion cars in one direction only.
I don’t think Tyneside buses ever operated to Gosforth Park: in my lifetime, certainly, their Gosforth route, which operated only at times convenient for shifts in the shipyards, terminated in Rothwell Road which is behind Gosforth High Street and on the former route of the tramway. Sometime after the opening of the (first) Tyne Tunnel a peak hours only service was introduced between Wallsend and Jarrow.
As Ronnie says most of the Northern Group companies used Setright Speed machines after 1956 when they replaced Bellgraphics (as we always knew them!) but Tyneside and Gateshead and District continued with Ultimates; Gateshead’s, however, were the more common 5 barrel type (as were the Corporation’s) but Tyneside’s were 6 barrel models. I’m not sure, but I would have thought that the most likely reason that those subsidiaries used Ultimates was the speed of ticket issue: Ultimates were much quicker to use (once the combinations for higher value fares had been memorised) and most of Gateshead’s routes were, like Tyneside’s Riverside route, very busy. The reason for Tyneside using 6 barrel machines may have been simply in order to reduce the necessity to issue combinations or double-issue tickets on a particularly busy service.
As an aside (and I apologise for digressing), technically another Northern subsidiary also used Ultimates. The C&E Bus Company (named after Messrs Colpitts and Ellwood) were taken over by the Venture company in 1951 (almost 20 years before Venture sold out to Northern) although the name was retained; after the takeover and for the remainder of their separate existence, Venture operated the former C&E services "on hire to the C&E Bus Company" and Northern also retained the name as a non-operating company after the acquisition of Venture. At one time C&E used Ultimates and I well remember that their surplus rolls were offered for sale at the Venture office in Marborough Crescent Bus Station during the early 1950s.

Alan Hall

11/03/12 – 07:41

So pleased I’ve seen this, beginning to think I’d imagined the green bus. My mother used to get this if she’d missed the Tynemouth or Whitley Bay bus from the Haymarket. We had to run down Northumberland St, and hurry past people, to try and catch it. I liked to look out for ‘Simpson’s Hotel’ the men’s hostel on Buddle St, Wallsend. There were always men leaning against the wall outside and I tried to see inside the bedrooms from the top deck of the bus. My mam used to tell me not to stare and I felt sorry for the men not having a home. I can vaguely remember walking from Borough Road, it seemed a long way as we had to catch the bus to Marden from Saville St, opposite the old library. There was a toy shop there and I would look in the window until the bus came.
Happy memories.

Lorna

11/03/12 – 15:45

I’d be curious to know who posted the "Herr Kutt" comment, as this was always a mildly derogatory term used by a very good old friend, who has as yet not owned up. "Krim" is the German for the Crimea, where they’d be speaking Russian, Ukranian, or Crimean-Tartar, none of which belong to my repertoire, but "Krimsekt" (i.e. Crimean sparkly, is much drunk in the German-speaking world, and I’ve always been partial to a glass of bubbly, so we’ll let it pass. I no longer have need of hair cream.

Tom Graham

25/10/12 – 11:58

Yes, what memories of waiting for the NEW Green buses coming along Howdon Road to pick us up at the end of Bridge Road South to take us to the Pedestrian Tunnel to walk through to Jarrow and Hebburn. Sadly the tunnel is now a shadow of it’s former self, tiles missing and escalators all dirty but those great days are now gone !!!

James Lawson

01/02/13 – 08:40

Re the comment from Stew Smith (15/05/11 – 06:45) above – Rudy Schiber was the barber.

John Slater

17/04/13 – 10:13

Northern General ran the 1st RED Atlanteans from their depot in South Shields and because of the overhang they continually demolished roundabouts until the drivers got the hang of them & stopped turning to early. Also the 1st ones were prone to losing their gearbox fluid all over the road.
Incidentally is there a thread on South Shields Corporation Bus’s? which included both diesel and trolley.

Jon

Not yet Jon but if you have a photo and some copy you could start one.

07/07/13 – 14:02

My understanding is that some of the apparent eccentricities of the Tyneside company derived from it not being quite fully owned by Northern until the 1960s.
Northern had an interest in the Tyneside Tramways and Tramroads Co from 1913, and a controlling interest from 1936, but it only became a limited company when Northern gained full control and could now change the name to Tyneside Omnibus in the early 1960s.
This happened after the construction of the new depot in Hadrian Road, and I can remember the odd sounding local newspaper reports "New depot for Tyneside Tramways" – which hadn’t run a tram since 1930!
I think had Northern had full control earlier Tyneside would have been amalgamated with the wholly-controlled Tynemouth company.

Percy Trimmer

19/10/13 – 08:10

John – the German barber was Rudi Sieber. He was a friend of my dad’s (no idea how they met but I know they used to go out shooting together at one time) and I remember being taken to the shop as a small boy to get my hair cut. I was told that he had served in the Luftwaffe during the Second World War and he reckoned to have been in Russia – which may or may not have been true, as he was a ‘larger than life’ character!

Patrick Ray

08/06/14 – 07:33

Willington Quay was well served by the green buses. The first I remember (about 1949) were Petrol Engined, with registrations JR8618 to JR8626. Bus numbers 18 to 26. From the timetable Tyneside needed 8 buses on the road. I think they always had 9, with one off the road for maintenance. This fleet of JRs was replaced by Leyland Diesels about 1950. BTY 167 to BTY 170 and CTY 331 to CTY 333; bus numbers 27 to 33. (Some years later 31 to 33 were operated by "Tynemouth" and all painted in Tynemouth Red, operating the Number 9 Route from the Tyne Tunnel to Culercoats). Next for Tyneside there were 4 buses with posh interiors again Leyland diesels with numbers from 34 to 38, but can’t remember the registrations. (Maybe ENL). After that Tyneside had a complete new set of Leylands; 39 to 47; again the registrations escape me. This was around the mid-fifties. One of this fleet embedded itself in Sammy Hendersons Sweet Shop in Borough Road Willington Quay one Sunday night. My mum got me out of bed to go and see it. I don’t think anyone was hurt, but the bus (42) was off the road for about 6 months. I then left Willington Quay and lost touch with their fleet. I think the next two buses they had were Leyland Backloading 30 footers; 49 and 50.

Rob from Willington Quay

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

11/08/14 – 09:36

Patrick Ray – Rudi Sieber was my Sister’s Father, her name is Helga. I know very little about him, my Mother Grace Victoria Baker was married to him before she married my Father John Frizzell. She worked on the Northern Buses for years. If you wouldn’t mind any insight into what he was like would be wonderful.

Karin

Photograph by ‘unknown’ if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Halifax Corporation Transport and Joint Omnibus Committee
1963
Albion Nimbus NS3AN
Weymann B31F

Halifax acquired ten of these little Albion Nimbus to do a few routes that due to the narrowness of the roads and sharpness of the bends a small bus was required for the job. These buses suited the bill fine size wise but that was about all. With its rather small engine 4.1 litre I think climbing the Pennine hills was quite a chore and as they were noisy on the flat you can imagine the noise on the climb up from Hebden Bridge to Heptonstall. It has also come to light that they were not all that reliable in a few other ways too. They must of been really bad as 2 went in 65, 2 more in 66 and all the rest by 67 a 4 years life span is not good.

Halifax General Manager Geoffrey Hilditch wrote a series of magazine articles called "Looking at Buses" under the pen-name Gortonian, one of which was about the Albion Nimbus. I’m not saying there weren’t reliability problems, but as I recall it, the main problem at Halifax was a more general operational one. At a time when there was a general shortage of serviceable vehicles, anything that was available and working needed to be able to go anywhere, not be restricted to certain duties because it only had 31 seats. I think that’s why they had to go.

Peter Williamson

They had to go because they were truly dreadful for reliability, they were replaced with the special short narrow Pennine bodied AEC Reliances

Christopher

A coincidence (not) that Great Yarmouth’s six Nimbuses were replaced by short Reliances with Pennine bodywork? Not really GH was GM at Caister Road too.
One of the latter vehicles (85) has been wonderfully restored by the East Anglian Transport Museum.

Mick Capon

Several of these Halifax buses served with Wiles as the backbone of their short services from Tranent to Prestonpans and Port Seton well into the 1970s. They stood out as the sole surviving independent bus operation at that time in the Edinburgh area, and the Nimbuses provided an interesting variation on the usual fare!

John Godfrey

Christopher’s comments on the Albion Nimbus reminded me of a short tale, (anecdotal, so I don’t guarantee its total accuracy), about the reliability of these vehicles. Maidstone & District bought a small number of them to use on light rural routes, and they had a dreadful reputation. The Chief Engineer, allegedly, made a derogatory remark about the ability of the Central Works to overhaul the engines properly, and got one that had been rebuilt by his former company, Western Welsh – that much is certainly true; I remember seeing it at Postley Works. A little later, after I had moved to a different department, I asked a friend who worked at Postley how they had got on with it. ‘It ran relatively well’, was the reply. ‘It managed about twenty feet outside the works door before breaking down!’

Roy Burke

29/05/11 – 07:00

When Mr Hilditch then at Great Yarmouth heard that Mr LeFevre was buying Albion Ninbii he offered the Great Yarmouth batch and begged him to reconsider but to no avail, it was shortly after this that Mr. Hilditch returned to Halifax to find his newest buses to be these 10.

Christopher

31/05/11 – 18:47

RJX 253 and 256 ended up with Baddeley Bros. of Holmfirth for use on their rural routes. 253 lasted long enough to pass to West Yorkshire PTE, as a withdrawn vehicle, with the Baddeley’s business in 1976.
I also remember going to see one of the others operating with Wiles, but can’t remember which one, possibly RJX 252

Eric

26/09/11 – 06:34

Ramsbottom Urban District Council became the owner of RJX 258 having acquired it from Warrington Corporation in 1967. It was given fleet number 12 and used on the infrequent service to Holcombe Village. When RUDC was absorbed into SELNEC PTE in 1969 the bus became SELNEC 6082, a picture of it on the service to Summerseat appears at: www.flickr.com/photos/
Summerseat had a railway station but no bus service until the railway closed. Due to the tight access to the village the Nimbus proved useful. Later alternatives were the similar sized Seddon Pennine midi buses one of which, on the Holcombe Village service, appears at: www.flickr.com/photos/

David Slater

28/07/14 – 07:40

Mention of the Hebden Bridge-Heptonstall route prompts the question:
When did they stop doing the hairpin turn into and out of the hill to Heptonstall and install the turning circle further along towards Todmorden?

John Lomas

29/07/14 – 06:32

When I was a Halifax Traffic Clerk in 1964-66, I gained my PSV licence in February 1965, and then worked most evenings and Saturdays covering shifts on the road. Probably uniquely in HPTD, I loved the little Nimbus and became the first to be called upon when a Heptonstall duty needed covering – the regular road staff always steered clear as far as possible. The 46 route had an unbelievably tight reversing terminal point at Heptonstall – even the mirrors had to be folded back to get the bus off the narrow Towngate into the tiny gap between buildings – and, for this reason, the little Nimbuses on this service carried conductors to guide the driver into the constricted aperture. Later, when standard saloons replaced the Nimbuses, the route was diverted to run round the (then) council estate. Why this could not have been accomplished earlier, I cannot comprehend. Perhaps there was a Road Service Licence problem. At Hebden Bridge, as John Lomas has indicated, the Heptonstall Road descends steeply down to a very acute west facing junction with the A646 in the Calder valley. It was just possible (but officially frowned upon) to crank a Nimbus hard right from the main road into Heptonstall Road and up the hill, a manoeuvre that I now see (from Google Earth) is prohibited. Also, I don’t recall there being traffic lights at this point back in the ‘sixties. Returning from Heptonstall, one had no option but to continue along the A646 and swing round where the roadway widened near Church Lane. This was the official recommendation for both directions, and when standard saloons took over the route, no other option was possible. I haven’t visited this area for a great many years now, but, looking at this junction on Google Earth, I am amazed how little has changed in half a century. Even most of the distinctive houses on the steep valley side, with their first floors at the front becoming the ground floors at the back, are still there.

Roger Cox

29/07/14 – 17:39

As Roger says, the official (and in most cases the only possible way) to make the turn into Heptonstall Road was to proceed past, pull over onto the righthand side of the road, reverse into Church Lane, then return back along the road to what was then just a left fork. This applied to both the HJOC’ Heptonstall route and Hebble’s 15 Burnley.
I have no record of when the Mytholm turning-circle was constructed. Though I started driving Halifax Corporation buses in 1973 I do not recall driving buses that far ‘down the valley’ (strictly speaking, it’s ‘up the valley’ – but that’s the local terminology !) until about 1980, and by then it had been in operation for quite a while. I would suggest it was opened in the early 1970’s.

John Stringer

30/07/14 – 06:49

I was hoping John S might know when the turning circle was built as I have an undated print showing it in use.

Geoff Kerr

30/07/14 – 08:28

Roger- you seem to have a dawning realisation in recent posts about Halifax that it is a place where NOTHING CHANGES, an endearing or infuriating feature of the real west Yorkshire. The inconsistency is the adventure in bus purchases, as you would have expected them to be ordering Titans for ever- like, dare I say, Todmorden "up" the Valley. (There is something Biblical in the way you are said to travel from Halifax (Jerusalem) down to Todmorden (Jericho). Apart from Mr Hilditch’s influence, many purchases show an underlying respect for nature- steep hills, ancient, narrow lanes, cold winters- although where rear engines fit into this I’m unsure. It is said that Halifax has retained a fine Victorian centre because no-one could agree on redevelopment, although another fault in the theory they couldn’t resist a bit of peripheral highway-in-the-sky. Perhaps in this and the Fleetlines etc old fashioned civic pride has to be added to the mix. Another thought: about the time of WYPTE the districts did take up some new liveries before the rather anaemic eau de nil and then the naffly-named and liveried Yorkshire Rider. Calderdale, if I recall was Royal Blue with yellow? Kirklees was to keep red, but the other two?

Joe

30/07/14 – 13:36

Having consulted with a friend who lived nearby the Mytholm turning circle, who has in turn consulted a colleague who drove for Halifax Corporation in the early to mid-sixties (probably simultaneously with Roger Cox at one point) the latter reckons it may have opened as early as 1964 ! Any more offers ?

Regarding the liveries from the PTE onwards. Shortly before WYPTE took over, a bus from each district was experimentally turned out in a suggested new livery, with different colours in a common layout. These were mostly cream but with a band around the lower half of the skirt panels and the roof and top-deck window surrounds painted in a district colour that related to the previous municipalities – green for Leeds, blue for Bradford, red for Kirklees (Huddersfield) and orange for Calderdale (Halifax). The idea was rejected however.
Then Geoffrey Hilditch repainted seven Halifax vehicles (three Fleetlines, two PD2’s, a Reliance and a Todmorden Leopard) in a scheme of his own, consisting a darker green and cream but all applied in different layouts, and with a ‘Metro Calderdale’ fleetname enclosed in an orange losenge shaped rather like a coffin! What was he implying ? Despite all GGH’s rather cheeky efforts, the idea was also rejected. The final universal livery of Verona Green and Buttermilk was actually based on that used on the three Plaxton Elite-bodied Leopard coaches delivered to Leeds City Transport in 1973.
The post-deregulation Yorkshire Rider livery of green and cream was in many ways not unlike GGH’s 1974 offerings but with very large and gaudy red fleetnames added. Badgerline Holdings took over briefly and added rather childish smiley badgers to lurk behind the rear wheelarches.
FirstBus at first allowed each district to devise their own individual liveries and fleetnames. Leeds went for a a sort of pale beige with red, orange and yellow stripes (very similar to a contemporary petrol tanker livery if I recall ?) with the name ‘Leeds City Link’. Bradford went for two shades of blue and red, with an unbelievable number of layout variations, and chose to be ‘Bradford Traveller’. Huddersfield chose two shades of green (the darker shade being the same as the old YR green) and red, and the ‘Kingfisher’ identity. Halifax chose a startling mostly white livery, with Ford Tractor blue and Sunburst Yellow lower bands that turned up sharply towards the rear, and the name ‘Calderline’.
Shortly after, First devised the now familiar corporate pale grey (or dirty off white ?), blue and pink livery and decreed that this should be applied to all new vehicles. The local liveries were soon abandoned and the hideous corporate simplified ‘Barbie 2 fade out pink’ vinyls were applied to the older buses – the absolute nadir as far as I am concerned.
These vinyls obviously seemed like a good idea to someone with actually no idea. They took the form of one very long and expensive roll of vinyl transfer that was to wrap around the entire lower section of the bus. Maybe this type of thing was practical on large slab-sided vans, but fitting them around all the corners, and cutting them around all the doors, wheelarches, panel beading, radiator, diesel and other access flaps, ventilation grilles, light fittings etc. was an utter nightmare for the two bodyshop chaps who would have to struggle manfully for up to two days with scissors and a hot air gun applying them. Before long the bus wash, weather and accidental scrapes would soon cause them to peel and become grubby and ingrained with dirt, and if a panel had to be replaced then a new bit would have to be cut from a roll and stuck on – though sometimes they didn’t bother at all and just painted them in, the painter becoming quite adept at recreating the ‘fading out’ effect with his paintbrush ! What had it all come down to ?

John Stringer

31/07/14 – 06:21

Sounds then as if I have my reliverying backuds way on, then, John. Hardly surprising in the general chassis.
In the fourth district, life was simpler: National poppy disappeared and West Riding Green reappeared with a swervy swatch and more cream. Now Deutsche Bahn fiddle and refiddle with their over fussy liveries.

Joe

31/07/14 – 18:05

The NBC and some of the PTE liveries may have been pretty naff, but the present day crowd are in a class of their own. Now that it has finally swallowed Norfolk Green (after an ‘arms length’ connection for some time, I would guess) buses are appearing in a "Stenningised" version of the livery that has the front three quarters of the bus in grey. Norfolk Green is now Norfolk Grey. One extraordinary comment on the Anglia Bus Forum (I am not a member!) is:- "Looks to me that Ray Stenning has been used, which is never a bad thing". Words fail me.

Roger Cox

11/08/14 – 07:12

The "Kingfisher" livery of two shades of green (applied in manner not unlike naval "dazzle camouflage") adopted, as John writes, by Yorkshire Rider Huddersfield was actually the last corporate Yorkshire Rider livery: Bradford, Halifax and Todmorden, and Leeds all adopted new identities as described (identities being spot-on in the case of Bradford Traveller – there were [?three] trial versions before a "final" application was chosen . . . that then turned out to be less-than-final as further simplifications followed) but Kingfisher adopted the final Yorkshire Rider scheme as it had just had a large injection of new vehicles which it didn’t want to repaint. I do remember a lot of adverse comment in the letters pages of the local press about the adoption of "Kingfisher" instead of "Yorkshire Rider Huddersfield" as the trading name (the locals wanted to see Huddersfield on the sides of their buses, and thought "Kingfisher" was meaningless), the response was a lot of blather about "Kingfisher" representing something dynamic/colourful/resilient (I’m assuming Chris Youhill doesn’t read the Huddersfield Examiner, or he’d have had a heart attack) . . . eventually "Kingfisher Huddersfield" was adopted to placate local opinion.
In my opinion liveries are routed in what the French call "terroir": they are part of, and they define their localities – here in Aireborough (Yeadon/Rawdon/Guiseley) we were served by the red buses of WYRCC (OK Chris . . . and the blue buses of Ledgard) but not – unless you want to go back a bit – the blue/green buses of Leeds City Transport (forget the short-lived Cookridge-Morrisons shoppers service) and that set us apart. You meddle with liveries at your peril: Aberdare/Cynon Valley’s maroon might have been a bit dour, but Geoffrey Hilditch’s imposition of Halifax/Calderdale’s dual-purpose application of green/white/orange had no connection locally.
And finally. I’ve thrown it out, and I can’t remember where I saw it, but it was a very recent "back in those days" article about Halifax’s first female driver – "Yorkshire Post"? "Yorkshire Reporter"?. The 23-year-old ex-conductress was pictured smiling at the wheel of one of Halifax’s Daimler Fleetlines: oh dear! that smile would soon be wiped-off her face when, 30 min after starting out on her first "9 Raw Lane" journey, half the town’s buses were off the road in protest. Apparently Sarah(? – I think I’ve got her name right) was then returned to conducting duties whilst arbitration was carried out. The atmosphere at the Sixth Form College where I teach can be toxic at times (actually, is toxic most of the time(), but this is in a different league.

Philip Rushworth

11/08/14 – 09:56

Halifax Corporation’s first female driver was called Sandra Holt. As Philip says, the matter caused quite a furore at the time and she left the department very soon afterwards. Interestingly though a couple of years later in 1973 when the second female driver – Mavis Sayer – appeared on the scene, there was no problem whatsoever and she had nothing but support from her colleagues, finally retiring about five years back after 40 years service. After Mavis many more quickly followed suit, and I reckon that up to the present day the Corporation and its successors in Halifax have employed around 75 female drivers.

John Stringer

13/08/14 – 07:02

Sandra Holt! That’s her name – thanks John. I have to ask myself, is there something about bus/HGV-driving and ladies/women/females (oh God! what a minefield) that is problematical? The role of women in the Police and Armed Forces has been much expanded/integrated since I joined, and I had no problems subsequently working under female superiors . . . but if I see a bus or HGV driven by a female I still think (or even say to my family): "look! woman driver!!".

Philip Rushworth

15/08/17 – 08:05

Just a note on liveries for the then new PTE, Geoffrey Hilditch had as a first go four model Dinky toys Routemaster buses painted in four liveries, all essentially Halifax except for the panel between the windows, one was Halifax green, one Leeds dark green, one Huddersfield red and the other Bradford blue.
I think this was simply too traditional for the Board and too Halifax as well, after this came the painted buses with top and bottom the local colour, I recall the Halifax PD2 very well, was it nick named the ice cream van?
The eventual verona green had the Doncaster ‘roads and pavement’ strap round the front, GGH was not enthusiastic.

Christopher

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

31/03/18 – 07:48

Sandra Holt, Halifax’s first female bus driver was mentioned earlier in this thread. I thought readers might like to know that there is currently a brief video clip of her, together with a view of the bus moving, in a short video on the BBC web site. It’s about a minute into the video
www.bbc.com/ideas/videos/the-glass-ceiling-smashers
(Sorry, I don’t know for how long it will remain on the site. I just happened to watch it and arrived here, searching for more information, because I was amazed that her fifteen minutes of "first woman" fame occurred less than fifty years ago!)

Jennifer H.

01/04/18 – 07:57

As an aside, the clip shows that those women who were employed by companies suffered discrimination, not from the employer, but from their colleagues, even to the point of striking in protest! They had a problem getting and retaining their jobs, let alone getting equal pay. Going back to pre-war days, women who got married were expected to give up work. My mother, a secretary in Hatton Garden, and married in 1933, used to take her wedding ring off and assume the mantle of remaining unmarried, until about June 1937, when her pregnancy with me would have started to show!

Chris Hebbron

01/04/18 – 07:58

Just about three-and-a-half-years after my post about Sandra Holt we get to see her in action – thanks Jennifer.

Philip Rushworth