Bury Corporation
1965
Daimler Fleetline CRG6LX
East Lancs H43/31F

In 1965 when this shot was taken there was only two rear engined double deck vehicles the Daimler Fleetline and the Leyland Atlantean. The Fleetline had one big advantage over the early Atlanteans in that it had a flat central gangway downstairs and the step up from the ground to entrance floor level was only 1 foot. The advantage of the easy access and high seating capacity meant that the Fleetline became a very popular vehicle with municipal and company operators alike.
The first Fleetlines had the Daimler CD6 8.6 litre six cylinder engine but has soon as it went into serious production it was supplied with the Gardner 6LX 10.45 litre engine as standard with an option of the Gardner 6LW 8.4 litre both were six cylinder diesels.  The gearbox was of the four speed Daimatic direct selection epicyclic type and the braking system was air pressure. As with all Daimler vehicles the coding is fairly straight forward the ‘R’ stands for rear engine and the ‘G’ stands for the Gardner engine, I wish I knew what the ‘C’ stood for as it precedes most Daimler codes ‘CWG’ and ‘CVG’ for example my guess is ‘Chassis’ but if anybody knows better or has a good idea please please leave a comment.

A full list of Daimler codes can be seen here.

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“I think the ‘C’ could stand for ‘Coventry’
It came from the dark recesses of my mind. What happened when the Fleetline moved from Coventry to Leyland? It ceased to be CRG/L and became FE. So unsubstantiated, but a reasonable guess – unless anyone else knows better.”
D Oldfield

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“I think the ‘C’ could stand for ‘Commercial’
As the company at the time was called Daimler Commercial Vehicles and traded separate to the passenger car business.”

T J Haigh

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The ‘C’ chassis prefix did stand for Commercial vehicle, as Daimler also made private cars. Sadly this tradition ended when Leyland in its infinite wisdom moved Daimler bus production to Leyland. These chassis were designated ‘FE’, in line with Leyland’s then practice of using the first and last letters of model names as chassis designations (eg: ON OlympiaN; TN TitaN; NL NationaL; LX LynX).

Brendan Smith

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30/01/12 – 11:11

The debate goes on about how successful the RMF would have been had it gone into full scale production, but at Northern’s Percy Main depot we had both Atlanteans and Fleetlines, and for my money the Fleetline was a far superior vehicle, ‘perhaps that’s why it was killed off when Daimler became part of British Leyland’ All ours had the Gardner 6LW, the earlier ones were MCW bodied but my favourites were the later Alexander bodied vehicles, most of them were transferred to East Yorkshire when NBC came about.

Ronnie Hoye

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28/09/12 – 07:49

This style of East Lancs body for rear engined double deckers only appeared on this batch for Bury and an almost contemporaneous batch of Fleetlines for Coventry.
They were well proportioned vehicles as can be seen here

Phil Blinkhorn

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28/09/12 – 14:13

…..and three batches of PDR1/2s for Sheffield with Neepsend bodies…..

David Oldfield

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28/09/12 – 14:15

Phil, Warrington also had Fleetlines with this style of East Lancs bodywork Atlanteans to the same design but built in Sheffield by Neepsend were bought by the corporation. Both the Fleetlines and Atlanteans dated from 1965-1966. An example of the Warrington Fleetlines appears at this link.

Chris Hough

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28/09/12 – 18:02

David/Chris,
You are right about the Neepsend bodies for Sheffield and Warrington. I managed to eliminate part of my script after typing in the link to the Coventry photo and didn’t notice until I just read your replies.
If you go back to my original post, it would have continued:
"The photo shows Coventry 22 – but though the design is the same (in all but detail) the body is by Neepsend and is one of a batch where East Lancs produced 9 and Neepsend 13 and Coventry split delivery of chassis in a staggered way between the two plants (see Peter Gould’s list for Coventry 1966). Sheffield received vehicles of this design from Neepsend as well and, strangely, Warrington also received Neepsend produced vehicles. Is this a case of congestion at East Lancs or was this really designed to be built in Sheffield?"

Phil Blinkhorn

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29/09/12 – 18:06

Can somebody clarify the relationship between East Lancs and Neepsend. Did East Lancs buy Neepsend to gain additional capacity? if so it seems to have been a bit of waste of time as – to my recollection – Neepsend didn’t last all that long as a body builder . . . which raises the question, what became of them? And what were Neepsend doing before they started assembling East Lancs bodies? – would general metalwork fabrication be a good guess?

Philip Rushworth

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30/09/12 – 07:47

The entire share capital of East Lancashire Coachbuilders Ltd was bought by Cravens Railway Carriage and Wagon Company Ltd of Sheffield in 1964. Cravens itself was a subsidiary of the John Brown group of Clydebank, though the founder, John Brown, was himself born in Sheffield in 1816. Although it had made tentative forays into the bus building business between the wars, Cravens was by then primarily a constructor of railway rolling stock. Because the East Lancs premises in Blackburn were of constricted size, Cravens set up a subsidiary in the Neepsend area of Sheffield to increase the productive capacity of the bus bodybuilding side of the business. Neepsend built bodies to East Lancs designs from 1964 before closing completely in 1968.

Roger Cox

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30/09/12 – 07:48

There is a deal of confusion on a great number of sites regarding just who were Neepsend and what they did.
It seems that the long established Sheffield firm of Cravens, which over the years produced trams, railway carriages and bus bodies bought East Lancs around 1960.
They set up Neepsend on Penistone Rd, away from their main site, at about the same time initially, as I understand it, as an overflow site (some local forums say that some BRS "Noddy" vans were built there but these were all supposed to have been built by Star Bodies, the BRS in house builder).
There are reports on some local Sheffield forums regarding a building collapse at the property damaging some vans in production.

Phil Blinkhorn

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30/09/12 – 07:49

At the time both East Lancs and the former Craven plant in Sheffield were owned by John Brown engineering The company decided to use the Sheffield capacity to build bodies to East Lancs design.

Chris Hough

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30/09/12 – 07:50

In 1964 the John Brown Engineering Group bought out the road vehicle body building part of Cravens – the railway part went to Metro-Cammell – and recommenced bus building in Sheffield at Neepsend as an overflow to their newly acquired East Lancs operation.
I was a regular visitor on business to the Blackburn operation up to and beyond the fire. The whole place was cramped and would have horrified a modern health and safety inspector.
If my memory is right there was an extension completed well before the fire which probably meant the demise of Neepsend, though the clutter remained.

Phil Blinkhorn

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30/09/12 – 07:51

Further to my last comment Cravens actually bought a stake in East Lancs rather than the other way round in an effort to get back into bus building. This was achieved by a purchase of shares from the bank which was acting as executor of the will of one of the company founders. However the size of the factory and poor quality killed the project off by 1968.

Chris Hough

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30/09/12 – 10:37

I have a hazy memory that the Neepsend factory was purpose built, because it had partly "glazed" doors on to Penistone Road through which the skeletons of buses could be seen. It always seemed a bit of a mystery why this was there, then.

Joe

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18/01/18 – 05:25

I rode on LEN 101 ( Lenny ) many times when it was brand new at Bury, Ride like a bouncy castle , Drivers got sea sick & the cab was small & overheated being next to the engine, Plagued with mechanical faults, particularly the brakes, It was used sparingly & was on the Bury – Walmersley (37) run, so it wasn’t too far away when it broke down i’m told, A good ride downstairs, but not upstairs, We were told it was bought from the bus show, An untested prototype ?? Seems there were many variations of it,

Ian S

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14/11/19 – 05:42

An ex Bury driver I used to know said that that Wulfrunian was the worst bus he ever drove in his 19 years on the buses, through Bury Corporation, Selnec and GMT.
Others he didn’t like were two 36 foot East Lancs bodied Leyland Leopards which had been new to Bolton and were transferred to Bury after Selnec took over, 6054/5.

David Pomfret

United Automobile Services
1962
Bristol MW6G
ECW DP41F

Previous shots of United Automobile single deck vehicles on this site have been bus bodied or coach bodied, here we have a dual purpose bodied MW6G. United as like many other of the tilling group had a different livery for each type of vehicle body. United’s dual purpose vehicles livery was a reversal of there bus livery of ‘red and cream’ and there coach livery was ‘cream and sage green’. There are links at the foot of this copy to see shots of a bus and coach livery. If you want to know the full specification for the MW6G you can look it up on the Bristol abbreviations here.
The above photograph was taken at Whitby bus station July 1965 and this bus is not exactly on a long distance run as Whitby Laithes I think is around the Hawsker area which is only 3-4 miles south of Whitby. On saying that though what a lovely run on the North Yorkshire Moors with the North Sea just to the side of you, not sure if this route includes calling at Robin Hoods Bay or not. If you know please leave a comment.
Quick links to see the ‘bus’ and ‘coach’ liveries.

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Whitby Laithes is just outside Whitby near Stainsacre and before you get to Hawsker. I believe there was and maybe still is a caravan site there.
Fantastic picture I would like to see some Durham District (which was part of United) photos if you have any. How well the colour suits the MW. This vehicle probably used to go on longer express services in its time to London etc.

Paul

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Silly little anecdote concerning United and the Whitby area. I studied at the Royal Northern College of Music and the father of one of my tutors was a United inspector in the the Whitby area. Pre RE, all Bristols had manual, many crash, gearboxes. At the top of the road to Robin Hoods Bay, at that time open to traffic, was a sign telling bus drivers to stop and engage first gear. The breaking effect of an epicyclic gearbox is not the same as a manual. The poor driver of the first semi-auto RE to go down this road found this out to his cost. He panicked and threw the thing into reverse. The result was the vehicle seized up and when the fitters unscrewed the gearbox housing, a pile of dust fell to the floor.

David Oldfield

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The very steep hill from the main road to Whitby into Fylingthorpe is still used by Uniteds successor Arriva for their 96 Scarborough Whitby Middlesbrough service. For many years it boasted signs at the top and bottom instructing drivers to engage low gear. Halfway up the hill is a hairpin bend which really sorted out the men from the boys! Following an Olympian up the hill was a fairly hair raising business Nowadays the route is worked by single deckers. A similar steep hill Blue Bank just outside Sleights also used to boast signs instructing United drivers to stop and engage low gear Indeed so steep is this road it boasts a sand filled run off for the use of out of control vehicles

Chris Hough

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I seem to remember there is sand run off road at the bottom of Garrowby Hill on the York to Bridlington road.

Peter

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There is one on the A59 Harrogate to Skipton road after the long decent to Bolton Abbey

Spencer

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19/03/11 – 07:48

Can anyone tell me the colour scheme for a Leyland Lion operated by United Automobile in the Bishop Aukland area in the 1912/1920 era.

Brian

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19/03/11 – 10:33

Peter is quite right, and the escape lane still exists at the lower end of Garrowby Hill. I once had the most unpleasant but essential task of reporting an East Yorkshire driver who, in a filthy temper all the way from Bridlington Bus Station, carried our full load in a Leyland Leopard down Garrowby Hill in top gear. As I have a very wide experience of driving Leopards I was aware of their tendency to brake fade under heavy usage and this man was very lucky indeed not to have caused a disaster. As would be expected the highly respected EYMS were very concerned and thanked me for the information – not being of a vindictive nature I hope that the man was only reprimanded but the atrocious incident could not possibly go unreported. In one of those contrasts which occur from time to time I had travelled to Bridlington that weekend on a West Yorkshire vehicle (joint services 44/45) which was driven so impeccably that I also wrote to WYRCC with a commendation – soon afterwards that driver was seen in an Inspector’s hat in Leeds !!

Chris Youhill

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19/03/11 – 17:20

Chris, we have so much in common. I have this thing about criticism outweighing commendation and that the good should also and always be remarked upon.
To his own surprise, I wrote a letter of commendation about a First driver in Sheffield one Christmas Eve, a few years back. The standard of his driving and his interaction with passengers (yes, not customers!!!) was superb. I also got a very nice reply from management thanking me for taking the trouble. I think this is so important.

David Oldfield

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19/11/11 – 10:07

I Googled "uas colour schemes" because I’m modelling Morpeth station 1950s and needed to check something. What do I find? An old friend from my college days.
I did two summer vacs as a conductor at Whitby depot in 1961 and 1962 and if that isn’t one of the coaches we used on the Leeds run then it’s their twin brother.
There wasn’t a service to Whitby Laithes then. The closest would have been the 93 (I think) to Robin Hoods Bay.

Clippie

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20/11/11 – 07:35

The mention of Blue Bank reminds me that when I drove for J. J. Longstaff of Mirfield I was half way up with my Bedford VAS/Plaxton when the fan belt snapped. I was very fortunate to be able to back in to a field and then coast down to Sleights to wait to be rescued.

Philip Carlton

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12/12/11 – 08:28

Chris Hough refers to advisory/warning signs erected around Whitby on approaches to very steep hills. There is still one such sign at the top of Blue Bank on the  approach to Sleights just outside Whitby.
I have attached two photos which please use if you wish.

Whilst not the original, it serves the same purpose – it is in fact headed up as ‘TEES’, this company being the eventual successor to United in 1990 prior to the subsequent takeover by Arriva.
The present sign is well obscured by a gorse bush but quite visible to the enthusiast. There used also to be signs at the bottom of the hills with the message ‘United – All clear’, but there is none at the foot of Blue Bank now.
As far as I know, there are no longer any signs on Lythe Bank above Sandsend and I do not know if any signs still exist at Fylingthorpe but would think it unlikely.

John Darwent

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13/12/11 – 10:55

Apart from a few odd balls that were presumably acquired as a result of takeovers, up to the formation of National Bus Company the vast majority of United’s bus and coach fleet was made up of ECW bodied Bristol’s. However, for quite some time Whitley Bay Depot had a none ECW Guy Arab, does anyone know how it came to be there?

Ronnie Hoye

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13/12/11 – 11:22

Ronnie, I believe it was a Willowbrook body – possibly a rebody of a war-time model. This would almost certainly be as a result of the takeover of an independent. I believe Durham and District was set up to run independents taken over in the area by United – but Whitley Bay would be far too north to be included.

David Oldfield

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13/12/11 – 15:19

I am a regular reader but have not contributed previously.
Re the recent posts concerning the warning signs on Blue Bank there is a beautifully restored United Red “Engage Low Gear” sign at the foot of Ruswarp Bank in Ruswarp Village near Whitby. There is quite a few photos to be seen if you Google – “United Ruswarp Compulsory”
On Lythe Bank there was an intermediate sign in both directions at the Lodge gates and I recall that for climbing vehicles it read “Drivers may build up gears” or something similar. In the down direction the first sign was for 2nd gear and the intermediate prior to the steepest 1 in 4 portion was for 1st gear.
I recall others on the approach to Goathland.

Farmer G

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15/12/11 – 15:41

Excellent – thank you for the link Farmer G

John Darwent

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14/01/12 – 16:19

The United 1962 Bristol MW6G ECW DP41F is my colour scheme. I worked at Grange Road 1954 – 1958/9 in the drawing office. The drawings came in and we had to colour them in. The CE chose mine….
Yes Durham and District Services was set-up to run the independents United had taken over. In my time in the pump house in Central Works we had Bob I think it was who’d come in from the company at Hurworth that United/DDS had taken over.
In the drawing office there was drawings of the "stop and engage low gear" signs.

Mike Hingley

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04/05/12 – 08:59

Could anyone tell me please the location of United’s Scarborough depot? Is the building still there?

Goff

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04/05/12 – 14:45

The Depot is still there and is now a Car Parking facility rejoicing in the name of the "Palm Court" on Vernon Road near the junction with Falconers Road. It appears to be connected to the up-market Palm Court Hotel. It is clearly shown on Google Earth.

Gordon Green

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04/07/13 – 17:35

I seem to recall a double decker bus service in the 1950’s to Castle Park in Whitby, route number 96 when I was about 5 or 6. Does anyone remember this? I seem to remember that the bus went up Chub Hill, along Upgang Lane and Love Lane before heading past White Leys estate.

Mic

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20/08/13 – 18:53

A K5G from Scarborough depot was loaned to Whitby Depot for the summer period in the fifties. The service was numbered 98 and ran from the Bus Station to Castle Park via Chubb Hill, John Street, Promenade, Argyle Road, White Point, Love Lane and Stakesby Road. The Destination blind permanently showed "Castle Park", and the lower blind "White Point The Spa 98. Around 1960 this service was linked with the 99 from the Bus Station to St. Peter’s Road, formerly operated by Heather Motor Services. The resulting cross town service was numbered 96, and was operated by two single-deckers, at first LS5G’s, later MW’s. By the early seventies, Whitby Depot had a single RESL6G, 2862, which was used on the 96 day after day, usually in partnership with an LH; I once overheard a driver stating that Whitby’s manager had tried to get a second RE but had been refused.

Don McKeown

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21/08/13 – 06:55

Seeing the earlier post of signs on Blue Bank has got me worried. If the gorse bush has been cut back to reveal the TEES sign saying ‘Stop, Engage 2nd gear Retain to next sign’ and the All Clear sign at the bottom has been removed, what is happening out on the road ?
Are there dozens of buses winding their way around North Yorkshire in 2nd gear looking in vain for the All Clear sign ?
I sincerely hope not!

Petras409

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25/08/13 – 06:33

In Don McK’s posting, he mentions Heather Motor Services at Whitby. I recall that on holiday as a very small boy in the late 40’S, I saw what may well have been a Bedford OB or similar in cream with red lining belonging to Moordale Coaches maybe. I have never been able to find a reference to this firm or where they ran from. Don, do you have any information please? Heather MS is well documented though.

John Darwent

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29/08/13 – 06:29

Sorry John, I have no recollection of Moordale coaches in the Whitby area, although I have heard the name; was it a company further north, perhaps in County Durham?
Farmer G mentions the restored sign at Ruswarp; this is not strictly accurate, the "United" fleetname at the head of the board has a large U and D, with the NITE smaller and underlined. In reality, only the U was in the larger print with five letters underlined. Further on along the 91 (Malton route) there were a fourth set of gearchanging signs at the "Devil’s Elbow", between the Saltergate Inn and the Hole of Horcum.
Service 94 to Whitby Laithes was a summer only service which survived into the late sixties. It was taken over from Heather Motor Services, along with the 99 St. Peters Road) and 93 (Fylingthorpe)on 29th March 1953. The story of Heather is told in a book by Philip Battersby, published by United Enthusiasts Club in 2005.

Don McKeown

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29/08/13 – 06:31

Ah – distant memories of what were my first ever seaside Summer Holidays spent in Whitby. Obviously I’m not the only one on this site to spend holidays there in the late 40’s and early 50’s. On the second and third of those holidays we stayed at the Oxford Hotel opposite the Spa and the highlight for me was the regular passage of the Castle Park bus.
Isn’t it funny how the ‘old’ registration numbers stick in your mind and here is one – CHN 105 passing by on a regular basis all day. For years I recalled it as a K5G with a modern post war body but it was only when I found a copy of the Prestige book on United that I found a photo by G H F Atkins of its sister CHN 106 and discovered that it was not what it first seemed to be. In fact it was a GO5G originally fitted with an odd ball ECW body (14 ft 3in height) but with a lowbridge layout. They were rebodied in 1949 with standard ECW lowbridge bodies which had to be modified to fit the GO5G chassis.
Could the cream/red Bedford OB have been one of Howards’s Tours who used to load in front of the Esplanade Gardens for their excursions ??

Gordon Green

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03/09/13 – 16:30

Gordon, I have looked at an image of a Howards’ OB and the colours suggest you may well be correct with your suggestion.I cannot remember whether Howards had any stage services but seem to think that the "phantom" Moordale /Moorsholm /Moorview or whatever Coaches served the Esk Valley area such as Danby and Lealholm. Possibly an ex-Howards OB retaining the paint scheme but with new owner – who knows?

John Darwent

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16/09/13 – 06:31

I’ve just noticed Ronnie’s query from December 2011 (!) about a non-ECW Guy ‘decker at Whitley Bay. David is quite right in attributing it to the formation of DDS. It was GGH1 (GHN 69), a Guy Arab III which had been ordered by Darlington Triumph, one of the constituent companies – along with ABC and Express – of DDS. Its chassis was delivered to DDS in May 1951 and originally intended to operate for them, but was actually ‘transferred’ to United who had it bodied by Willowbrook as a highbridge 58-seater. It entered service in June 1952 at Carlisle depot but, later, found its way to Whitley Bay where it was often to be found on the 5 and 17 services and where, I believe, it ended its days.

Alan R Hall

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Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

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28/05/14 – 07:46

Regarding the question by John Darwent and others above. Moordale Bus services Ltd who ran in the Whitby area. The company was actually based in Newcastle and survived in various forms until takeover by British Bus in the 1990s. They also had a garage at Danby and ran;
Loftus-Liverton Mines-Liverton Village-Moorsholm, Castleton-Danby-Lealholm-Ugthorpe-Sandsend-Whitby, Loftus-Liverton-Danby-Lealholm-Glaisdale,
Danby-Fryup Dale (Sats only)
Even in the the post-war traffic boom these must have been marginal and the whole operation was abandoned in 1954. Just Loftus-Liverton was replaced, by Saltburn Motor Services, and even then I believe there was a gap before this started.

Phil Drake

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28/05/14 – 16:03

Thanks for that Phil. Very enlightening.

John Darwent

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07/06/14 – 08:24

I have been in the Whitby area this week and have found another of the old (but badged ‘Tees’) ‘compulsory stop engage 1st gear’ signs at the foot of Saltersgate Bank on the A169 Whitby Pickering road. This is opposite the sadly closed Saltersgate Inn where the peat fire was aid to have been burning for nearly 300 years. There used to be one at the top for descending vehicles but I could not see this as I drove past.
I wonder if Yorkshire Coastliner observe the spirit of the old signs ?

Gordon Green

Sheffield Corporation
1960
AEC Regent V 2D3RA
Alexander H37/28R

This photo was taken just after lunch but as you can see this Regent V has the interior lights on, what a miserable day that was. I know this is not a very good shot but it is worth posting due to the fact that most Alexander bodied Regent Vs were delivered north of the border with the majority of them being to Glasgow Corporation. I think this vehicle one of a batch of 20 delivered to the Sheffield “A” fleet were the only ones delivered new to an English operator, if I am incorrect I am sure someone will let me know.

Sheffield like quite a few municipalities had separate fleets wholly or jointly owned within the overall operation.

Sheffield had three fleets A, B and C and were owned as follows.

“A” fleet Corporation owned (fleet numbers 1-999 in 1965)

“B” fleet Jointly owned by the Corporation and British Railways (fleet numbers 1251-1400 in 1965)

“C” fleet British Railways owned (fleet numbers 1150-1250 in 1965)

If you want to know the full specification for the Regent V 2D3RA you can look it up under the Regent V abbreviations here.

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The only operator of this style of Alexander outside Scotland to predate them was Cardiff – definitely not England.

861 – 880 were the precursors of many Alexander bodies for STD, SYPTE and then Mainline. They looked good, and being AECs were good and sounded good. For some reason, the numbers didn’t add up. The Weymann and Roe 2D3RAs were all H39/30R(D – Roe) with bags of leg room. The Alexanders were H37/32R and whilst lack of legroom downstairs was understandable, what wasn’t was the distinct lack of room with fewer seats upstairs.

I have an unsubstantiated theory about the design – can anyone confirm, or squash it? Many 1940/50s Alexander deckers were built on Weymann (pre Orion) frames before this design emerged. Is it too fanciful to suggest that it was based on the same design and frames as the Rochdale Regent Vs and Sheffield Regent IIIs and Titan PD2s? [Curved domes and side windows?]

This Regent is on route 92 Manor Park – very close to the City Centre and would normally have had City on the blind. The photograph looks as if it was taken very close to the new Supertram depot and Park and Ride site which was not a regular haunt for these Regents. When new they could be seen on the 95 and 75 tram replacement routes and also drifted onto 60 and 38. Was this taken late in its life? The Alexanders and Roes were divided between Leadmill and East Bank garages, the Weymanns were all, I think, at East Bank.

874 was immaculately restored some years ago and is a regular on the northern rally circuit. But (trivia time), why did the last one (880) have a different type and style of rear number plate? I don’t know! If you know please leave a comment.

David Oldfield

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02/03/11

Enjoyed the posting and the comment from David Oldfield with respect to the Alexander bodied Regent V’s. I must confess to liking the Weymanns a bit more, but the Scottish bodies certainly stood out with that rounded dome.
When still relatively new, I remember these Alexanders often making a Saturday appearance on the 34 Petre Street – Graves Park, along with some of the Weymann ones, running from East Bank, and they looked even more unusual on there, alongside the 1947 vintage Weymann bodied Regent III’s of the 558-572 batch that were still the mainstay of this service at the time. In fact two 30 footers arriving at Reform Chapel within minutes of each other was apt to cause a bit of a problem, as there wasn’t a lot of room to spare at the bus stop alongside the chapel opposite the chip shop!
I think the reason for 880 having a different rear end, with the registration plate in the standard position at the offside corner was that it had a rear end collision at some point, and emerged from Queens Road after repair in the altered state, thus making it unique in the batch.
When new, a colleague informs me that all the Alexanders initially went to Bramall Lane for the 33 and the 75 tram replacement routes, with the 26 Weymanns being split between Bramall Lane and Leadmill Road. Noteworthy on the Alexanders was the first offside window behind the cab being a hinged emergency escape window, something which of course the Weymanns didn’t have.
At least three of those superb Roe bodied ones were at Townhead Street when new, for use on the 85 to Retford, and also on the Dinnington services, where their platform doors were no doubt very well received, especially in the cold weather. The story has it that the Roe bodies initially lacked a centre stanchion on the platform, these being fitted sometime later after an unfortunately fatal accident which was attributed to the lack of a grab pole. More trivia!

Dave Careless

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03/03/11 – 08:53

Dave. Thanks for filling in the allocation details. Townhead Street and Branhall Lane were operational when I was very young but had closed by the time I became really interested. I had forgotten, but you are absolutely right in every respect about the Roe centre stanchion and the fatality.

David Oldfield

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04/03/11 – 07:39

Thanks David, I’m pleased you found that of interest.
Those Roe bodied Regent V’s were wonderful machines, I always felt they looked a lot more elegant when they were new, with the standard Roe version of the Sheffield livery, with the blue window surrounds, and the classy bodybuilders gold transfer on the waistband, at the side of the cab and just forward of the entrance, very smart indeed. And the styling of that Roe emergency window simply couldn’t be beat!
After Chaceley T. Humpidge took over as General Manager in 1961, and did away with the livery variations, including the grey roof after first overhaul (not that any of 1325-1349 ever saw this application), the Roes never looked quite as smart in the standard cream with blue bands, but that’s merely a personal preference.
It’s a pity that you missed Townhead Street in its heyday, as that was quite something to see, with the trams downstairs in the basement and the buses up above, and a parking area along the side where half-cab single deckers seemed to invariably sit. Mind you, passing Greenland Road or Herries Road late at night, with the lights blazing and the garage and forecourt stuffed full of immaculate cream and blue buses, was equally as breath taking if you were an enthusiast! Quite often my father would indulge me and pull the car over for a few minutes so I could savour the atmosphere and jot down a few numbers; happy days.

Dave Careless

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04/03/11 – 17:19

Happy days indeed, Dave. Barbie just doesn’t do it. Nor does red, white and blue – but at least Mr Souter does know how to run a bus company even if Dennis Dust Carts have as much charisma as a wet weekend in….. (fill your own space – I don’t want to upset friends on this site!)
If you read any other posts, you’ll know my thing is AEC, Roe and Burlingham – so 1325-49 are my all time favourites, followed by the nine 1952 Regent IIIs. [I too preferred the Weymanns over the Alexanders.]
Strangely enough, my favourite PD2s were the 1952 all Leylands which eventually gained Roe style livery after being delivered in green. I believe they were the only brand new green deliveries – or were the 1952 Regent/Roe rebuilds also delivered in green?

David Oldfield

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06/03/11 – 08:06

You’ve got my vote there, David; funnily enough, those twelve OWB registered PD2’s were far and away my favourite Sheffield Titans also, they somehow looked a cut above the Faringtons, I think it was those push-out vents in the upstairs front windows that gave them the edge!
Before I came to Canada in the late fifties, I made a regular weekly excursion with my mother from Rotherham to the grandmother’s in the east end of Sheffield, accomplished by bus and tram, a 69 from Rotherham to Attercliffe, and a tram from the corner of Newhall Road to Upwell Street, and reverse. In those days, the 69 offering was either a Sheffield PD2 or a Rotherham Crossley, either of which was guaranteed to provide a memorable journey, but if it happened to be one of the OWB’s that turned up, then that was definitely a bonus. The unmistakeable sound and steady beat of that Leyland engine is such a strong recollection that I can almost hear it now as I sit typing in Canada fifty plus years later.
The world seemed to be a different place then, and I also travelled on the bus unaccompanied a lot at an age where it would be deemed unthinkable to allow children to do so today. I once travelled to Sheffield upstairs on a Rotherham Crossley that was packed with Sheffield Wednesday supporters heading to an evening match, and the air upstairs was blue with cigarette smoke and strong language, to the extent that I was enjoying it so much that instead of alighting at Newhall Road as I was supposed to, stayed on into the Wicker and had to catch another bus back to the east end. I can still see and hear that Crossley now, pulling away up the Wicker towards the terminus at Waingate, well down on its springs at the back with the nearly full load and trailing a plume of exhaust smoke behind it into the city centre. Those weekly outings on the 69 were sorely missed when they eventually came to an end.
Of course, one of the OWB’s, 666, lived on as gritter/towing tender G56 for many years, and was a regular sight at one time, struggling back to East Bank with yet another broken down Atlantean hanging off its back. I’m not sure how, but even with its upper deck and most of the back end missing, it still managed to look more elegant than half the modern things it was sent out to rescue!!
Not quite sure just when and where those Roe rebodied FWA-Regents got their green paint applied David, that one needs a fair bit of research. Good question though.

Dave Careless

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06/03/11 – 09:06

Strange. An exile in Surrey corresponding with an exile in Canada. Good this internet, eh?
I first went solo, on a bus, aged ten. From Greenhill to Woodseats on an SWE Regent III – and similar back – on an errand for my father. Mission accomplished, my second solo was to town and back on the same afternoon on two similar vehicles. After that, there was no going back!
My experience of the 6** PD2s was mostly on the 93 and occasionally the 32 to visit Grandparents. They never seemed to be on the 23 when I visited the other Gps.

David Oldfield

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09/03/11 – 06:05

Those SWE-Regents were cracking machines, superb looking, with their chromium wheel nut rings, which they seemed to keep right to the end, and the sound they made, with that straight-through exhaust, was quite something. What one wouldn’t give for a run from Greenhill to Woodseats and back on one of them today.
Even my father, who wasn’t into buses at all, was heard to remark " …. those Sheffield buses have a wonderful bark to them!" I still have a slide I persuaded him to take one day at Reform Chapel, in the east end, of SWE 281 waiting patiently for the crew to return from the nearby cafe before setting off for Hollythorpe Rise. Could that really have been 49 years ago??!!

Dave Careless

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10/03/12 – 07:42

Talking of the terminus at Reform Chapel, we had a choice of two routes to centre at that time, the 34 Petre St to Graves Park or the 17 Sheffield Lane Top to Millhouses Park which had been recently been a tram service, being only about eight or nine when the trams ran, I wish I had been a little older so I would have had more interest in the trams, as it was my brother and I loved to stand at the front of the bus looking out over the engine compartment, which we considered the best view out of the bus, how disappointed we were when the Atlanteans were introduced and lost this vantage point! The uses on the 17 route were usually Leyland PD3’s as I found out later in life, as it sped down Attercliffe Road, we peered at the square speedometer to see if the bus would get up to or even break the 40 mph barrier, my fathers car at that time was a two cylinder Transit sized Jowett Bradford van which struggled to get over 30 mph downhill with wind behind us! Great days which the children of today will never know the adventure of bus travel, the smell, the noise and the vibration, more’s the pity.

David T

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10/03/12 – 15:58

It’s hard to believe that an OWB was used as a towing tender, with something like a mere 36bhp on hand! That’s really pushing such a willing workhorse to near cruelty!

Chris Hebbron

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Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

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11/03/12 – 07:47

With great respect David T I had to chuckle at the promotion of the Jowett Bradford van to "Transit" size – I think that such a colossal vehicle would have brought the willing little power unit to its knees, but the Bradford was a wonderful little van of around "Escort" size. In 1960 there was in Ilkley a delightful very elderly posh lady who used the most decrepit of all Bradford vans – both front wings were literally almost falling off and several volunteers were regularly needed to push start the van on the Ilkley car park. Well Mrs. S***** used to revel in telling us of her exploits and narrow escapes with a mischievous twinkle in her weary old eyes. My favourite (and one of her best) was when she was on the A59 in Preston heading for Blackpool – descending a hill towards the huge Tulketh cotton mill she encountered a bobby on cross roads point duty with hand raised – shooting past him she eventually rolled to a stop to find the PC chasing after her, notebook and pencil at the ready. "Have you no brakes on this vehicle" demanded The Law – leaving him perplexed as she set off Mrs. S***** replied "Of course I have officer – they simply failed to function !!"

Chris Youhill

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11/03/12 – 07:50

I almost fell for that one Chris H!!

Chris Barker

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11/03/12 – 08:56

Forgive me for being off topic but Chris Y’s tale of that Jowett Bradford van brought back old memories of one owned by Mr Mc.Maughan a local painter and decorator who was a bit of a carefree old sort and used to wipe his brushes out on the side of his van! Originally a mid fawn colour, it became covered in hundreds of multicoloured stripes.. it didn’t go any faster though..30 mph was a dream!
Mentioning paint… when we lived in Conway Road, Brislington, Bristol, our neighbour Bert Staddon was an engineer at Bristol Commercial Vehicles and once hit on the strange idea of painting the stonework of his house in BCV silver chassis paint. That was in 1958 and to this day, it is still clearly evident but must have puzzled many people over the years..good stuff though!
Again..total apologies for this thread drift.

Richard Leaman

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11/03/12 – 15:48

As a youngster I made regular Sunday trips to Sheffield to see relatives. We travelled from Leeds to Sheffield Midland station, we then walked across the city to the terminus of the sixty nine to Rotherham. The buses seen were always of interest particularly the early Atlanteans which were unheard of in Leeds. Sheffield’s buses always seemed very different to those in Leeds Usually our steed was a Leyland Titan which always had a fair turn of speed they had string bell pulls which again were unknown in Leeds as was the strap placed across the platform when the bus was full. Prior to nineteen sixty if we were upstairs on the bus I got a glimpse of Tinsley tram depot with many cars resting from their labour, strangely I don’t recall ever seeing a Sheffield car actually running. It all seems very different to today were only the destinations tell you that you are in a different place

Chris Hough

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11/03/12 – 19:33

Chris Y – Lovely tale about the Bradford. I have a friend who worked for Brooke Bond and they trundled around the country stocking up shops with Lever Bros/Unilever products. They were allocated Trojan vans, some of the earlier ones still having chain drive! They were gutless and, as a new employee, you covered staff who were on holiday or sick. His first job was in the South Wales Valleys and he got stuck a couple of times on the hills and had to be assisted to the top of hills. He later found that the normal driver had devised a fixed route, which had gentler rises and steeper falls, the only way he could do the rounds! Later models had Perkins diesel engines,, which had a little more power.

Chris Hebbron

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11/03/12 – 20:13

The mention of Trojan Vans reminds me that Edinburgh Corporation Passenger Department had a good number as service vans.

Philip Carlton