Copyright both shots Peter Williamson

H Brown and Sons                                            H Brown and Sons
1950                                                                 1951
Sentinel STC4/40                                             Sentinel SLC4/35
Sentinel B40F                                                   Beadle B??F (ex C35C)

The years leading up to 1950 spawned a revolution in the design of single-deck buses and coaches, in which, in an effort to increase passenger capacity, the engine was removed from its traditional prominent position "between the shafts", turned on its side, and tucked away ignominiously under the floor. Leyland had built a class of buses to this design for London Transport before the war, and BMMO standardised on it from 1946 for their Midland Red fleet.
Coincidentally, when Sentinel started building diesel lorries in 1946, they mounted the engine horizontally under the cab floor, just as they had done with their famous steam waggons. This experience, together with with the fact that the company was by then part of a group which also made panelling for Beadle bus bodies, placed Sentinel in an ideal position to take part in the underfloor-engined bus revolution. In fact Sentinel was the first manufacturer to offer such a bus on the open market, exhibiting two complete vehicles at the 1948 Commercial Motor Show, while Leyland – who were developing the Olympic – could only show a horizontal engine as a taster.
The first models were the STC4, a lightweight integral product with bus bodywork built by Sentinel to Beadle design, and the SLC4, which was supplied as a chassis for outside bodying as bus or coach, although most were bodied by Beadle as coaches. Six-cylinder models STC6 and SLC6 followed after a couple of years, the latter with a wider choice of bodywork. Unfortunately Sentinel’s reputation in the bus world began as non-existent, started to sink because of early problems with engines and engine mountings, and never really recovered. The company gave up building road vehicles in 1956.
With the exception of Ribble, who were involved in the design process and purchased a total of 20 Sentinels, most buyers were small independents, of which Browns of Donnington Wood in Shropshire was one of the best known. The STC4 shown here was new as a Sentinel demonstrator, and the SLC4 had been converted by the operator from a centre-entrance coach to a front-entrance omo bus by the time these photos were taken in 1968. Both vehicles are still in existence.

Photographs and Copy contributed by Peter Williamson

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06/11/11 – 17:14

"Following GUJ 608’s photo from Peter Williamson, in Brown’s colours.

Here’s a photo I took of her yesterday (6th Nov 2011) at the Aston Manor Museum, Birmingham. The museum officially closed on 30th Oct, but they helpfully let me in. I couldn’t discover whose livery it was painted in, but maybe it was the one it wore whilst a demonstrator, bearing in mind it shows Senitinel in the number box.
Its history, prior to Brown’s ownership, was demonstrator, then Maryland Coaches, East London, for four years, then Warners of Tewkesbury, for four years. The future of the museum’s collection is now uncertain, as they must vacate the building by 31st Dec.."

Chris Hebbron

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07/11/11 – 12:08

GUJ 608 is currently in the livery it wore as a Sentinel demonstrator at the beginning of its life, although it is believed that it kept this colour scheme while with Maryland Coaches. Warners repainted it in their two-tone green livery.

Neville Mercer

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08/01/12 – 11:38

I noted with interest the bus painted blue with Dinnington as its destination – Hills of Whiston used to make Sentinel buses and two were supplied to a local company – Wigmore’s that ran between Dinnington and Sheffield – passing
en route Whiston. Could this be one of the two actual buses. They also produced buses for a firm called Camplejohn. Hope this is of some interest !

H Tompkin

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09/01/12 – 11:38

The destination is Donnington, suggesting that it still has a Browns blind.
As far as I can ascertain, the only Sentinel that ran for Wigmores of Dinnington was JWW 316. Apparently a second one (unidentified) was exhibited in Wigmores livery at the 1950 Commercial Motor Show, but was never delivered.

Peter Williamson

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10/01/12 – 12:00

Ah! Dear old Wiggy’s. As a slip of a boy (13 or so) I wrote to Wiggy’s and got a very nice invitation to their Dinnington depot. At the time it was in the West Riding – hence the registrations – but post 1974 became part of Rotherham, South Yorkshire. [South Yorkshire is geographically correct – if not historically – and better than Humberside. What was wrong with the Ridings anyway? Did the London centric Civil Servants not understand them?]

David Oldfield

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31/12/12 – 07:10

The original livery was cream/green and it was Donnington, this bus was part a fleet of Sentinels that belonged to H. Brown and Sons, H. Brown being Harry Brown who was my late great grandfather, look at Made in Shrewsbury for history of the Sentinels.

Does anyone know where this bus is now?

Phil Brown

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31/12/12 – 12:35

The past year has been a torrid time for Aston Manor Museum staff, first moving to what they thought was a secure site, then having to move again. Transferring, by road, some frail items, like part-trams and other barely roadworthy vehicles, proved difficult. They are still near their original site, however and, I assume, GUJ 608 is still with them. They hope to re-open around Easter.

Chris Hebbron

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01/01/13 – 11:41

There is an earlier reference to Camplejohn Bros. This company operated in the Barnsley area before being acquired Yorkshire Traction.
They operated a number of Sentinels most of which can be seen here: www.jsh1949.co.uk/

Andrew Beever

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01/01/13 – 17:32

Re the above link to pics of Camplejohn vehicles, the TTC 882 depicted was, as can be seen but not expressly stated, an Atkinson Alpha. All the other vehicles shown were Sentinels – apart from the obvious Dennis Lancet, of course.

David Call

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15/01/13 – 06:14

Stumbled across the picture of the blue Sentinel. I remember the first of these being operated by A C Wigmore (1949) on their Dinnington to Sheffield service. They seemed so modern and advanced when compared to the cab single deck Leylands, operated by East Midlands. As a small boy, I would always watch for this new bus and I remember keeping a blue chalk drawn sketch of it on the inside of my school desk, all through the year. How I wished to drive one!

David Ives

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15/01/13 – 14:46

I’ve recently had a visit to the new AMRTM site and my report is at www.focustransport.org.uk/  Due to the building’s smaller size many of their vehicles are being stored off site, and I am assuming this is also the case of the Sentinel which is not at the new site. AMRTM now have a facebook page to keep people up to date about their collection.

Ken Jones

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15/01/13 – 16:36

The AMRTM Sentinel belongs to Richard Gray who is a Director. It is I believe at their off site storage and not on display.
A sister vehicle belonging to Dave Wheatley of Kenilworth is currently undergoing restoration and I understand could be roadworthy in late 2013

Roger Burdett

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12/08/13 – 10:06

It is good to see the old sentinels again that I used to drive on the service route Donnington to Oakengates and also help maintain them.
They were great years and I believe Browns were the first to introduce one man operated vehicles and later were one of or maybe the first who introduced exact fair payment on entrance.
I used to drive both of the above with HNT 49 being the faster of the two able to do some 45 mph.
Brilliant years.

John Millington

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12/08/13 – 14:23

When I was in the RAF at Patrington, East Yorkshire in 1955/6 we often travelled on the buses and coaches of Connor and Graham of Easington, Spurn Point. The small firm had a most interesting and varied fleet, one of which was a Sentinel JWF 176, acquired new. My memories of it are of a comfortable and, for the time, spritely vehicle. On occasions it would operate the 2300 hours on Sunday evenings from Leeds Bridge Street back to our Camp. I’ll never forget the time when JWF 176 arrived, driven by a disgruntled chap called "Jock" who didn’t know the meaning of the phrase "vehicle sympathy." In the early hours of Monday morning as we sped downhill past the race course into sleepy Beverley the exhaust silencer blew open – without even reducing velocity one iota Jock sped on towards the even sleepier Holderness – I wouldn’t be surprised if all the good residents of the many villages en route scrambled for their WW2 gas masks and tin shelters, under the impression that the War was not over after all. The RAF Police sergeant in the guardroom, and his Alsatian, were overcome with shock………… and the epic journey passed into history !!

Chris Youhill

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13/11/14 – 06:16

The Aston Manor bus museum has transferred to Northgate, Aldridge, Walsall and is open several times per week.

Peter Green

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23/12/14 – 09:01

When I went to Ribble in 1972, Harry Tennant had been Chief Engineer since 1947. He told me that Sentinel’s were used on service around Leyland deliberately to spur Leyland Motors into faster development of an underfloor engined single deck.
Throughout his reign, on behalf of Ribble he was often leading vehicle developments. Samples: Gay Hostess, White Ladies, VRL Coaches, reverting from Atlantean to PD3 with full fronts (so driver could have similar supervision of forward door), installation of the first 680 engine in a Leyland National (to prod Leyland to get rid of the fixed-head 510) and the construction of the battery electric Leyland National (complete with battery trailer) on behalf of NBC.

Geoff Pullin

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31/12/14 – 05:55

My father and grandfather were the owners of Maryland Coaches. The sales rep tried to sell the Sentinel to my father he refused telling him it’s not a coach it’s a bus. He was running a fleet of Leyland, Bedfords and AEC coaches. The rep then found my grandfather in the local pub and talked him to signing up for the Sentinel. My father was not very happy with my grandfather. After running the Sentinel for some years they could never get over brake problems then selling GUJ 608. I talked to the owner in 1993/4 told me still had no brakes. The colour was the delivery colour.

M Leader

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07/01/15 – 15:01

Hello to you all particularly Phil Brown and John Millington ……. Great to see all this going on , which brings back wonderful memories of my days at H. Brown and Sons, which was run and managed by my late Stepfather Alfred Richard Brown youngest son of Harry. There were other sons of Harry who also assisted in the running of H. Brown and Sons.
I worked in the office and in 1972 ( I was 21 ) I passed my PSV …. second woman in the UK (first being in London apparently ) but I never got to drive the Sentinels as my Stepfather thought they were too heavy for me to handle, although I did pass my PSV with a 45 seater Duple with no power steering.
H. Brown and Sons were the best days of my life and I was so sorry to be made redundant when my Stepfather decided to sell out in 1978 as he and the remaining family members were all getting older and the need to retire became more essential !
Marvellous times , fantastic staff and absolutely tip top maintained coaches and buses by Uncle Sid Brown, his son Chris, John Millington and Russell Ashley.

Mary Darrall-Brown

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19/07/17 – 10:47

I’m Currently working on a Sentinal coach the reg no is AUX 296, we are looking for a Hercules engine as the current one has many parts missing & has Seized. can anyone help, any advise would be most helpful.

Peter Antrobus

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26/05/19 – 06:29

Having just skim-read through this section, I am interested in the comments concerning GUJ being a demonstrator vehicle at the beginning of its life.
Has anyone any confirmation that this was the vehicle loaned to Luton Corporation, who were known to have a vehicle on loan as a demonstrator in 1953. My Father drove ‘it’ – whatever vehicle it was – carrying out stage service work and always said ‘it went like the wind’. Nothing was ever forthcoming in the way of orders, Luton preferring to stick with Leyland, and in fact the first single deck vehicles didn’t arrive until 1967 in the shape of Bristol RELL’s!

Paul Fleet

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27/05/19 – 08:03

GUJ 608 was sold to Maryland Coaches at the beginning of 1952, so was no longer demonstrating in 1953. In any case, going "like the wind" is an unlikely description of a four-cylinder Sentinel, even though they were lightweights.

Peter Williamson

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01/08/19 – 08:59

I and a group of friends have acquired GUJ 608. It is currently still in the blue (ex demo) livery and we would like it back to the browns livery. The bus is coming back home to Donnington and at some point I would like to take it back home to what’s left of the Sentinel works in Shrewsbury.

Benjamin Rothery

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02/09/19 – 08:33

With regard to the comment made by Benjamin Rothery, the actual date of us acquiring GUJ 608 was 30 August 2019. We have set up a Facebook page "Friends of GUJ 608 Sentinel Bus" and anyone interested in keeping up with progress is invited to apply to join.

Glyn Bowen

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19/11/19 – 06:44

This was moved by new owners to a secure location near Telford.

Glyn Bowen

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19/11/19 – 11:51

Sentinel GUJ 608 apparently ran on demonstration to Portsmouth Corporation. A Portsmouth fleet list published by the Worthing Historic Commercial Vehicle Group in 1964 records that it "ran for approximately 9 months from 1950 to 1951 on services O/P". The list records it with chassis no 4.4030, built 1950, with a Sentinel B40- body. No other data is recorded there. This is confirmed in PSVC fleet history PH14, which records it as a STC4 model [4/40/30], with B40F body by Sentinel itself, new c.11/50. It ran in Portsmouth in a blue and cream livery from 11/50 to 1/51. This is probably more accurate than the WHCV record of "9 months". However, no orders were placed by Portsmouth, and it was another nine years or so before single-deckers were placed in service, being Weymann-bodied Leyland Tiger Cubs. These were Nos 16-25, delivered in November 1959, and starting service in April.May 1960.

Michael Hampton

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21/11/19 – 06:33

I have a photograph of it operating in Portsmouth but unfortunately do not have permission to post it. Very interesting to note that it was fitted with a different style front grill the likes of which I have not seen on any other Sentinel.

Below is is a poster about our group.

Glyn Bowen

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21/11/19 – 15:50

Very glad and grateful to see this Sentinel saved. Paul Fleet comments that the Sentinel his father drove "went like the wind". On one of my Sentinel pilgrimages to Shropshire in about 1969-70 I had a good chat with someone at Browns, who praised these buses for their speed, adding that they were very well balanced—presumably referring to front/rear balance—although I know that some Sentinels had their original 8-stud front axle replaced by a heavier 10-stud one.

Ian Thompson

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Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

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25/04/22 – 06:08

Thought you might like an update on GUJ 608.

Despite problems caused by lockdowns etc work has progressed slowly but surely with GUJ 608. It has been repainted into Browns Coachways of Donnington Wood livery as shown in the attached photo taken on 21st April 2022. Much work remains to be done before it runs again but progress is being made.

Glyn Bowen

Copyright Ian Wild

Rotherham Corporation
1949
Bristol K6B
East Lancs H30/26R

Rotherham was an enthusiastic Bristol operator until they became no longer available to non Tilling Companies. 180 is one of a batch of four Bristol L6B originally with Bruce B32C bodies delivered in 1949 and all rebodied in 1951 (only two years later) by East Lancs as H30/26R double deckers.

The photo was taken in August 1967 at the Chapeltown terminus of service 16. My information doesn’t include any withdrawal dates but the bus was a creditable 18 years old at the time.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

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180 lasted in service until 1967, one year later than the other three.

Chris Hebbron

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Ah! Blue and cream – almost as good as cream and blue (Sheffield).
Living in the far South West of Sheffield, I lived just about as far from Rotherham as I could be and the 69 went to Exchange Street, not Pond Street Bus Station. I am a fan of Bristol engined Bristols but wasn’t aware of Rotherham’s Bristols until long after they had gone. It was the AECs and Daimlers that I remember – and of course the AECs were actually in the minority.
Ironically, Rotherham was to become significant to me – as a musician – in later years, and still is today.

David Oldfield

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What a coincidence, David. I too lived on the south west side of Sheffield. I was at a training centre in Rawmarsh for 6 months during the winter of 1962/3 and travelled daily by bus. The 69 of course was a joint Sheffield/Rotherham service, Rotherham’s contribution almost exclusively being a Crossley. Rotherham had one single lady driver which was unusual in those days but she was a complete master (mistress?) of the Crossleys. Sheffield used their three ‘stock’ all Leyland PD2s (601-603), with their none standard destination displays on the 69. I seem to remember them having a brown seating material rather than Sheffield standard.
From Rotherham I travelled to Rawmarsh by Mexborough and Swinton. Their lowbridge Atlanteans were quite unusual to my eyes although later I worked for a fleet with 105 of them! Best thing about M&S was the almost exclusive use of conductresses, many of them rather attractive!!
Does anyone have any photos of the M&S Atlanteans?

Ian Wild

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The interesting question is, why were these vehicles re-bodied after only two years? It’s inconceivable that the Bruce bodies would have been unserviceable after such a short time, I believe Bruce had a good reputation and weren’t they associated with East Lancs? Was it the case that Rotherham suddenly had a desperate need for double deckers? and were the original bodies re-used on other chassis?
Did the fact that they were single deck chassis have any effect on the rear platform of the re-bodied vehicles, such as the Wallace Arnold re-bodied Daimlers for Kippax and Farsley with their two-step platforms?

Chris Barker

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And it wasn’t a cheap conversion, either. They were delivered as Bristol L6B’s, which were single decker chassis. The Bruce bodies were classified B32C’s which suggests that they were originally coaches rather than single-deck buses. The chassis were then rebuilt to K6B standard and fitted with the East Lancs double decker bodies. It’s likely that even the gearbox/axle ratios needed changing. But, as Chris B says, what were the ‘coaches’ originally planned for?

Chris Hebbron

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Two-step platforms: there was a fashion for these in the early 50’s: Doncaster had some new Roes in the 120’s with two step platforms and cranked seats- was it a way of dealing with 7ft 6in widths for narrow streets (or narrow washers depending which version you prefer)?

Joe

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I wonder if it was something to do with Rotherham getting wind of the impending loss of access to new Bristols. They may have taken whatever they could get hold of before the stable door was finally locked and bolted, on the basis that a 6B is a 6B, whatever happens to be sitting on top of it. It is quite probable that there would be a second-hand market for four good-quality coach bodies no more than two years old. From an accounting point of view it is quite likely that the subsequent rebodying would be done through the maintenance budget. So there would be few questions asked (however much it cost), compared with the approval process for purchasing new capital stock.

Stephen Ford

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PSV Circle fleet supplement P71R dated October 1963 provides further information. Eight 1949 Bristol L6Bs were rebodied with double deck bodies in 1951, fleet numbers 112-114 and 179-184. The displaced single deck bodies were fitted to prewar L5Gs fleet numbers 137/140/142/143 of 1938 and 159-162 of 1939. Of these, at least 137 etc originally had Cravens bodies. All were withdrawn in 1957/1958. Please note these B32C bodies were bus bodies (not coach)- the C refers to central entrance which seems to have been a Rotherham speciality as the Cravens bodies were of the same configuration.

Ian Wild

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Following on from Ians comment, centre entrances were very common in this area. Rotherham also ran many centre entrance single decker Daimler trolleybuses, a number of which were rebodied at a very young age with Roe double deck bodies. Rotherham were the joint operator with Mexborough and Swinton on services between Rotherham and Conisborough via Mexborough. Most of the ‘tracklesses’ operated by the Mexborough system were centre entrance with only a few very early examples and some wartime second hand vehicles bucking the trend. One of the latest centre door vehicles that I can think of in that area was a Doncaster CT Regal IV that from new was equipped with a centre door body albeit rebuilt to dual entrance later in life.

Dates relevant to the bus shown in the photo above are:-
Date into service – March 1949 (original body was by Bruce on East Lancs frames)
Chassis modified from L6B to K6B and rebodied by East Lancs in April 1951
Withdrawn October 1967 it passed to Autospares of Bingley for scrap in December 1967.
The original single deck body was used to rebody the refurbished chassis of a 1940 L5G of the CET 44x batch numbers 159 – 162

Andrew Charles

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27/02/11 – 12:00

Some interesting comments here, but does putting a double-deck body on a Bristol L make it a K? I grew up in Bristol and remember all the rebodying that went on but Bristol Omnibus never did a single to double deck conversion. The L chassis was 27′ 6" long, the K 26′ but, by the time of Rotherham’s rebodying, double deckers were allowed to be 27′ long. So how long was 180? Rotherham went on to buy the KS chassis, the only non-Tilling operator to do so; comparing photo-graphs of the two, 180 is almost certainly 26′ long, so the chassis had to be shortened to fit the new double deck body.

Geoff Kerr

——— Top of this posting ———

Photograph by ‘unknown’ if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Portsmouth Corporation
1943
Bedford OWB
Mulliner B32F

The earlier photo I posted, of a Portsmouth Leyland Cheetah, surrounded by Daimler CWA6/Duple double-deckers, were neatly bridged by the delivery of 10 Bedford OWB’s (1 in 1942, 7 in 1943 and 2 in 1944). All had Duple bodies, save 162 and 163, bodied by Mulliner, more aligned with bodying sleek, expensive Rolls-Royce’s and Bentleys!
I have to say that I never discovered any real reason for such little buses being allocated to CPPTD. Portsmouth’s bus services were already severely curtailed for the duration, with buses being kept away from the seafront and a greater reliance on trolleybuses than hitherto. They lent out double-deckers for periods. Upon delivery, at least some of them were painted grey, but whether this was through lack of maroon livery paint or the proximity of sensitive sites is debatable.
Whatever they did during the war, they led uneventful lives afterwards on quiet routes, although I have seen photos of them going along Commercial Road, the main shopping centre, which suggests that they were called out to perform on busy routes from time to time.
These small, but stout-hearted vehicles were all withdrawn in 1962-63, with 163 going in 1963. One (170 – CTP 200) survives in preservation.
One quirk unique to these buses were the number plates, which always had a tilde between the letters and numbers!

Photograph and Copy contributed by Chris Hebbron

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Super picture of that wonderful wartime bus, the OWB. Portsmouth must have been faced with extra wartime naval personnel transport duties to receive these, I would think, but they were regarded as "standard 32 seaters" in the wartime allocation system, being the only new single deckers available.
I well remember riding on Ledgards, and White Bus (Bridlington) OWBs, and the ring of their high pitched petrol engines and gear change lingers in my ears to this day.
Several other municipal fleets received OWBs, Bournemouth and Belfast coming to mind. Perhaps extra wartime duties were the common feature.

John Whitaker

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What a lovely picture of the OWB! In the early post-war period, they were painted standard red/white, and with grey roofs. They were also given upholstered seats from withdrawn vehicles (probably the TSMs, Condors and TD1s, reducing to 27 seats.
One of their uses in the fifties was on mileage balancing with Southdown, and I have read that they were especially useful on the Havant / Hayling routes because they could safely use the Hayling Bridge.
Their use became much more intense in later life, as in September 1958 the Corporation introduced a PAYE route (22) between Lower Wymering and Upper Drayton. I well remember this as this was in my earliest days of bus enthusiasm, and the route was just one road away from my home! At peak periods they could be well-loaded, the supposed "eight" maximum often being exceeded. I remember squatting on a bodywork protrusion opposite the driver in the space in front of the front entrance, and the back of the bus was invisible due to the crowd on board! For this work, they were further down-seated to 26, to provide a luggage space for pushchairs.
The picture could probably be dated quite accurately by anyone who still has records. It has a white roof instead of grey, (repaints to white roofs for the fleet were carried out 1959-1961), but still has a semaphore trafficator (on the pillar behind the driver’s window). Later (c. 1962/63?) the fleet were given flashing trafficators, those on the OWB’s being fitted below the window line.
My class-mates and I who followed this interest used to keep detailed records of when we first saw a bus with a white roof instead of grey, flashing trafficators fitted, and re-seated vehicles (both single and double-deck vehicles). Unfortunately my own lists have long disappeared, probably consigned to a dustbin.

Michael Hampton

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I was involved for quite a while in 1967/8 in work on the preservation in Leeds of CTP 200. One particular job that I remember doing was to reconstruct the destination blind box which had become badly corroded. Sadly, due to domestic circumstances at the time, I was no longer among the group who eventually put the splendid little vehicle back on the road. I need hardly remind those who know me that I am an ardent admirer of the Bedford OWB/OB – a model which is a modest and unpretentious but stout hearted little trooper if ever there was one.

Chris Youhill

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30/04/11 – 15:30

Re OWB’s later life. Michael Hampton is quite right re their late use, but I remember their use for the start of the PAYE services between Wymering and Highbury Estate whilst the new Leyland single deck, twin entry/exit, buses were awaited for delivery and service. The doors were operated by a rod linkage between the driver and the doors!!

Bob Townsend