Photograph by ‘unknown’ if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Wakefields Motors Ltd
1963
Bedford SB5
Plaxton C41F

The coach fleets of Northern General Transport and its subsidiaries was pretty much as you would expect from a BET company, usually an AEC, Guy or Leyland chassis, and a mixture of high quality bodies from several different Coachbuilders, so the arrival of these C41F Paxton Embassy II Bedford SB’s in 1963, came as somewhat of a surprise. I’m not suggesting that the SB was a bad vehicle, far from it, the gave many years of loyal service to a multitude of operators, but Bedford’s never played a significant role in the make up of BET group fleets, any that were around had either been bought for a specific purpose or had come in through the back door as the result of a takeover, so your guess is as good as mine as to why two of them came to be at Percy Main? As well as the Wakefields pair, HFT 264/5 – 264/5; I believe Sunderland District also had a some, and I presume all of them would have been either 8’s or 13’s with the Leyland engine, but I’m not aware of any others in the NGT set up. Life expectancy of NGT single deck and D/P vehicles was around 15 years, some of the touring coaches were withdrawn after about 10 years, but many were used for the longer express routes and lasted as long as their service cousins. This wasn’t the case with these Bedford’s. I started at Percy Main in 1967, and if memory serves, they were withdrawn at the end of the 1968 season. As far as ‘coaches’ were concerned, they were the last to carry the Wakefield’s name as all subsequent vehicles were D/P’s, and the name became defunct in 1970. As a footnote, the photo was taken outside The Gibraltar Rock Pub, located at Tynemouth terminus of what was at the time the service 11 to Newcastle, the location is only about 5 miles from Percy Main depot, and to me this photo looks like a publicity shot and the passengers are probably Percy Main office staff.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ronnie Hoye

15/05/13 – 09:22

Nice view, Ronnie. Thanks for posting. I know of other operators who used office staff in their publicity photos, so your theory in this case could well be correct.

Pete Davies

15/05/13 – 09:23

Yes, Ronnie – a strange choice of coach for a BET company. However, if they did want some lightweights then there was not much choice at the time, other than Ford Traders. I wonder if they were on lease hire, hence their short life with Wakefields?
This scene definitely looks staged. It was a common practice to enroll office staff to act as passengers for publicity shots. I remember one such occasion with Wallace Arnold when we were supposed to be tourists on a Swiss holiday (in the depths of a suburban Leeds country lane). I never saw the resulting pictures. Nobody minded, of course, as it got us out of the office for an hour or two.
Mind you, they couldn’t do this today as HSE would object to those two protuberances which could have someone’s eye out! (Sorry, but this was the age of The Likely Lads and Carry On films!)

Paul Haywood

15/05/13 – 10:57

Bedford? Very strange. Why? Because all the quality mainstream operators at that time tended towards the Ford 510E for their minority lightweight purchases – keeping them no longer than three years, often for only one season. [SUT, Yelloway, Wally Arnold, Hebble, Woollen – all ran Fords rather than SBs. SUT only ran SBs from operators who they had taken over.] OK; NGT ran non mainstream vehicles, including Guy Arab LUFs – but Wakefield ran Reliances, instead.

David Oldfield

17/05/13 – 07:17

"Oh, what happened to you? Whatever happened to me?" Well, Rodney Bewes – his voice at least – was the door announcer for the lifts in the last place I worked!

Pete Davies

18/05/13 – 08:15

Notice anything about "Bob’s" accent, Pete? Yorkshire, if not all that broad – Rodney Bewes is from Bingley. I think its called "auto-suggestion": you’re told the sitcom is about two "likely-lads" from Tyneside – as and long as one of them has a Geordie accent then you simply don’t hear the Yorkshire tones of his partner. The Northern Fleetline/Atlantean-Alexanders (which would it have been?) in the opening titles have gone, are the Scotswood Road flats still standing? The Dunston Rocket, of Tudor Crisps fame (also now gone), has gone. And I’m not even going to mention Manor steps, aerial ropeways, and multi-storey car-parks from a certain cult gangster film.
From the mid to late 60s there seemed to be more of an interest in lightweight coaches from certain BET and THC operators. Perhaps this reflected a desire to be able to compete more effectively against independents for private hire business as stage-carriage work declined.

Philip Rushworth

18/05/13 – 16:57

David O – Yelloway was not an operator that ran Fords rather than SBs, the opposite was the case. They bought Fords only in 1961, 3 in total, including subsidiary fleets. They bought SBs each year from 1960 to 1965, excluding 1961, a total of 16.

David Williamson

19/05/13 – 07:18

But my point was that they ran Fords, not that they didn’t run Bedfords…..

David Oldfield

21/05/13 – 14:48

There has recently been some discussion on the SCT61 website about a photo of Wakefield’s Motors Beadle-bodied AEC/Beadle rebuilds 191 and 192 (FT 7791/2). The blind on 192 shows ‘PRIVATE’ with ‘RIPON LEYBURN AND RICHMOND’ in smaller capitals underneath. There has been much speculation as to what this destination was intended for and the North-East based followers of that site are mystified. Eric Bawden has suggested that it might have been used for forces’ leave services but I have no recollection of Wakefield’s doing such work and so I’m not convinced.
I wondered if anyone – obviously, I’m particularly thinking of Ronnie Hoye as the Tynemouth/Wakefield’s expert – would know why this particular destination appeared on a Wakefield’s blind.
The photograph was taken in 1960 in Whitby so it doesn’t offer any clues.

Alan Hall

22/05/13 – 07:24

Can’t say for certain, Alan. I know a fair bit about T&W but I’m by no means an expert, but my opinion would be that Wakefields coaches all had the longer Northern express route destinations on their blinds, and vehicles with Percy Main crews could often be found being used as duplicates on some of the routes. If memory serves, the Newcastle Liverpool route ran through Ripon, Harrogate and Leeds, but I cant remember any that went via Richmond or Leyburn.

Ronnie Hoye

23/05/13 – 07:54

I’ve been talking to a friend who was at Percy Main when I was, and he too is at a loss as to why Leyburn and Richmond should be on the destination blind. Wakefields had two batches of AEC Beadles, FT 7275/80 – 175/80 and FT 7791/2 – 191/2; 175/80 were FC35F and classified as coaches, whereas 191/2 were FC39F D/P’s, they also had slightly different fronts, the coaches had more bright trim under the windscreen and no number section on the destination layout. The coach blinds carried all Northern express route destinations, but the D/P’s had a shortened version of the stage carriage blind with the express section added.

Ronnie Hoye

27/05/13 – 06:50

Thanks, Ronnie: I appreciate your trouble but it seems that Richmond and Leyburn are mysteries that have us all stumped.
Sadly, we’ll probably never know now.
I’ve dug out an old timetable from that era (1959, as it happens) which shows the hospital services which were licensed to Northern and Wakefield’s (no other group members), but nothing from as far away as Richmond or Leyburn features. As a matter of interest, the ones from the North Tyneside area (presumably the ones which were operated by Wakefield’s) were North Shields to Prudhoe Hall Colony – what a dreadful name, Wallsend to St George’s Hospital at Morpeth and North Shields to Earl’s House Hospital near Durham.
I think that’s my earliest Northern Group timetable but I have others from the ’60s which are stored at my mother’s house. I’ll look them out next time I’m there on the off chance that they may lead us to the solution.

Alan Hall

04/06/13 – 06:49

Ronnie, I’ve now checked the 1960, 1961 and 1962 timetables and there isn’t anything in any of those to indicate why Richmond and Leyburn might have been on Wakefield’s blinds.
I wonder if it was simply wishful thinking. You’ll remember that Newcastle’s trolleybus blinds included several places South of the Tyne, such as Dunston, Gateshead and Low Fell, in the hope/expectation that the wires would eventually cross the river as the tram wires had. I suspect that this may have been a similar example of ‘ready in case ever needed’.

Alan Hall

05/06/13 – 10:58

Alan, I have no evidence to back up this theory, but the only thing I can think of is perhaps Northern applied for an additional alternative route for the Leeds service, but this was United territory, and no doubt they would have objected strongly unless it was going to be a shared service.

Ronnie Hoye

30/12/13 – 07:13

Just discovered your sight today while searching for pics of the type of coach I drove during my service at R.A.F College Cranwell. Exactly what I was looking for, in fact as my coach was 27AC58. My home town was Scarborough which was very lucky for me as I was given the job of taking the college band to Scarborough for their annual fortnight visit.

Robert Robinson

10/04/15 – 07:27

I have a couple of photos of Wakefields vehicles showing Scarborough as a destination. That would not be a normal destination for a Northern Group Express coach unless it was the practice to hire them to United on Summer Saturdays for their Newcastle-Scarborough service. However, Scarborough was a destination for day tours. On the assumption that Ripon, Leyburn and Richmond was also a day tour, I have visited North Shields library to look for Wakefields Adverts for their tours in the local newspaper, and can confirm that this was indeed a Wakefields day tour.

John Gibson

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

08/03/16 – 05:26

I knew I wasn’t imagining this, SDO had two identical vehicles, 3730 & 3731 UP – 330/1, and Northern had eight Bedford’s with C41F Harrington bodies, PCN 1/8 – 2601/8. I dont know about the rest, but the two for Wakefields were sold on after three years, and went to Hylton Castle Coaches of Sunderland

Ronnie Hoye

Copyright John Stringer

Wigan Corporation
1968
Leyland PD2/37
Massey H37/27F

Latterly, Massey double deck bodies adopted a much squarer outline than the curvy designs of previously, giving them a less stylish but nonetheless quite purposeful air.  Here we see one of Wigan Corporation’s final batch of so-equipped PD2’s, about to depart the town’s bus station for Wrightington Hospital, whilst a flock of archetypal bus station pigeons hover in the background.  What is it about pigeons and bus stations?

Photograph and Copy contributed by John Stringer

12/05/13 – 09:54

It’s interesting that this is the first appearance of a Wigan bus in the column on the left. For such a proud operator – look, no external adverts! – I’d have expected others to have got in before you, John. Thanks for posting.
Wigan and Leigh, having both avoided the dreaded SELNEC were appalled at the thought they should both fall into the renamed PTE’s clutches by being absorbed into the new County of Greater Manchester.
It’s very timely in view of yesterday’s FA cup result! Did our editor have his crystal ball polished specially while deciding when to post it?

Pete Davies

12/05/13 – 09:55

In Wigan bus station it was all about pecking the crumbs left by the Pie Eaters!! Well done Wigan on winning the Cup – now just ensure you stay up so the town truly becomes a first rate two sport venue.
Oh, nearly forgot, the PD2. That front dome is very heavy – almost in the same league as Alexander’s Balloon Roof dome. The curvy designs were seen as dated by the late 1960s and the more upright front profile mirrors Manchester’s attempts with its Burlingham and MCW Orion bodied PD2s.

Phil Blinkhorn

12/05/13 – 10:15

Actually Pete, Leigh Corporation passed into SELNEC (Northern) with all the others in 1969. Only Wigan suffered as a result of the l974 fiasco.

John Stringer

12/05/13 – 17:20

I sit corrected, John!

Pete Davies

12/05/13 – 17:21

The front spot/fog light is situated in an unusual position. I assume the route to Wrightington Hospital was joint with Ribble – being numbered 343. Was Wigan the last operator to continue with coloured "identifier" lights? James (of Ammanford) used a single green light mounted under the canopy on half-cabs and outside the front near-side windscreen of underfloor single-deckers, the last being so fitted were its 1957 Tiger Cubs. Were there any other users between 1957 and 1974?

Philip Rushworth

13/05/13 – 07:43

Yes, Philip, the 343 was joint with Ribble. A similar one, the 333, showed DANGEROUS CORNER on some blinds. I trust the drivers took suitable precautions!

Pete Davies

13/05/13 – 07:43

Maynes still had their identifier lights after Wigan was absorbed into GMT

Phil Blinkhorn

13/05/13 – 07:44

This route was one I used often when living in Wrightington. It was joint with Ribble but each operator actually took a slightly different route.
The Wigan version took a direct route while the Ribble version went under a low railway bridge which meant that it was always single decked. At the time I was using it these were Ribble’s iconic 36ft Leopards. This version of the service was numbered 333.
Phil the green lights were discontinued from 1957 on saloon but retained on double deckers until the last deliveries in 1972

Chris Hough

13/05/13 – 15:43

Chris, did you find that the Ribble buses were governed so their top speed was around 30 mph? Frustrating if the bus was running late.

Jim Hepburn

14/05/13 – 07:52

There must have been a time when Wigan Corporation vehicles appeared on the 333 as I can remember seeing a photo (in BBF6, I think) of a Tiger Cub standing on the then Wigan Bus Station displaying the famous destination ‘333 Dangerous Corner’. My memory says that the route was extended to Wrightington Hospital in the early 1960s and the destination ‘Dangerous Corner’ ceased to be used. There could well have been periods when only Ribble vehicles appeared on the 333, but it would have remained technically ‘joint’ of course.

David Call

15/05/13 – 07:39

Wigan was one of a group of North West municipal operators who reverted to the Leyland exposed radiator after previously having deliveries of Titans with both the BMMO and St Helens style ‘tin fronts’. Stockport and Ramsbottom were the others that come to mind.
Another interesting feature of the Wigan fleet was of course the unfathomable fleet numbering system. In the Ian Allan BBF’s the registration numbers were used to define the batches of vehicles with the fleet numbers being allocated in what appeared to be a completely random way. Does anybody know the reason for this (if there was one)?

Philip Halstead

16/05/13 – 14:00

Some of the posts on this site are critical of the role of the PTEs as bus operators – with reference to both their size and sometimes controversial liveries, although this is clearly a subjective matter.
The PTEs have stood the test of time, despite the upheavals since 1969 in both the bus industry and local government, but it is interesting to speculate on what might have happened if they had been just coordinating bodies from the outset, with the bus operations left in the hands of local authorities. After all, there was already a great deal of joint operation in the area which became Greater Manchester, between the various municipal operators and between them and the company operators Ribble, LUT and North Western, and it seems that little was gained by creating a mega-operator with over 2,500 buses and standardised staff conditions etc.
In 1974, local government reorganisation would have seen mergers between Wigan and Leigh, Bury and Ramsbottom and between Ashton and SHMD, maybe each with a new livery. While the last-mentioned would have been a merger of equals, no doubt the other two would have been seen locally as “takeovers”! This would have left Trafford as the only non-operating district. What would have been the implications of this?

Geoff Kerr

16/05/13 – 15:26

Geoff, a very interesting post which raises the potential of many hypothesis.
I’m not going to speculate on what might have been but will make the following points:
When Henry Mattinson established the Express Services in the late 1920s he prefigured SELNEC/GMT by 41 years and had he not died prematurely he may well have been able to both defend the services against the railways, taxi drivers and haulage companies and restructure the routings through the city to avoid Market St and the congestion thereon. There is some evidence that he had some form of deeper integration in mind.
His successor, Stuart Pilcher, had other fish to fry but Henry’s far-sightedness led to an unprecedented co-operation, through running arrangements and revenue sharing which, by 1968 had become somewhat unwieldy, especially in terms of mileage sharing, fare structures and revenue split.
Whatever the political motives behind the formation of the PTEs were, there was a sound economic, operating and purchasing reason to pull the bus operations in the conurbation together, local pride and the views of enthusiasts were a long way down the list of priorities. In effect the job was incomplete until GMT pulled in Wigan, LUT and the share of North Western.
In GMT times, especially under Labour, there was a definitive drive to finalise what had been started over 10 years previously and to give the operation an identification with Greater Manchester in a similar way to that which had been the case when the pre SELNEC operators served there own areas.
The SELNEC/GMT "standard bus" carried forward the well proven Manchester ideal of trying to achieve cost savings and spares rationalisation – though, as ever, there were a large number of deviations.
The anomaly of Trafford not having an operator within its boundaries arises from the fact that, from tram days, MCTD had set itself up in competition with the Manchester, South Junction and Altrincham Railway which served Altrincham and, by default, Stretford and Sale on the way. As the route to Altrincham was the only real money spinner in the area, there was little room for the boroughs that now form Trafford to become involved, Manchester and North Western serving the branch routes off the A56.
The history of Manchester’s tram and bus operation along the A56 is littered with obstruction from both Stretford Council and the railway so there is no doubt that any operator set up by Altrincham, Sale or Stretford would have had problems both with each other and certainly with Manchester, though the problem never arose as even an SHMD type operation between the towns would have had few viable routes.
Had SELNEC/GMT never appeared, presumably after 1974, Manchester Corporation would have continued its presence in the Trafford area, as would NWRCC.

Phil Blinkhorn

17/05/13 – 07:19

Phil The idea of a single operating authority was also discussed in West Yorkshire in the thirties when the then Leeds manager W. Vane Morland suggested a PTE like organisation. One factor at the time which put brakes on the idea was the high degree of railway involvement in several of the operators.
It is also interesting that from 1974 when the later PTEs were set up no more large NBC companies were dismembered.
The companies based in the new West and South Yorkshire PTEs all had clearly defined territories where in the main the old municipal operators did not run except on joint services, indeed although West Yorks PTE was based in Wakefield it ran no services there.
But oh how I wish LUT were still in existence!

Chris Hough

16/07/13 – 07:51

Hi Philip
I live in Wigan & when I was a youngster used to have a fleet list (don’t have it anymore). I seem to recall that all the buses were numbered 1 to 150 & so each new bus took the number of one retired. Hence over time the numbering appears to be completely random.

Nigel

28/02/15 – 17:38

I used to drive, as a casual driver for Ribble Motors in the 1980’s, and believe it or not, the height warning in the cabs of the Leyland Nationals indicated that they wouldn’t fit under the bridge in Mill Lane, but they always did. JUST! When Red Bridge, at Standish Lower Ground still had its top span on, the newer double deckers that Wigan Corporation ran, wouldn’t fit under it. Only the older ones with the flatter tops would. So the newer ones always had a warning in the cab about this. Imagine my surprise when I was waiting for the bus in Shevington, to go to school round about 1957, and a newer bus arrived to pick us up. I said to my mate, "this bus won’t fit under the bridge" He told me not to be so stupid. Guess who was right?

Brian

01/03/15 – 06:48

I know the Dangerous Corner references are nearly 2 years old, but I have only just seen them. As well as Dangerous Corner on the A5209 near Wrightington, there is also a place with that name on the A577 near Atherton, I wonder if Wigan would have had that as a destination as well.
There is even a 3rd location with that name, it is in Yorkshire on the A59 near Menwith Hill though I can’t see that one appearing on a bus blind.

John Lomas

01/03/15 – 06:52

The reference to pigeons reminds me of a certain inspector at a certain underground (well, under-carpark) coach station in Manchester who did not like passengers who asked an excessive number (i.e., 2+) questions. He carried a pocket full of bird seed and would quietly stroll behind said passenger, scattering the good seed as he went – the resulting flocks of pigeons soon sent the passenger on their way!

John Hodkinson

02/03/15 – 07:29

I don’t think Wigan Corporation ran to the Dangerous Corner on the A577 near Atherton but Leigh Corporation certainly did and carried that destination on their blinds.

Michael Keeley

02/03/15 – 15:37

Here’s a shot of a SELNEC ex-Leigh PD2 destined for the ‘other’ Dangerous Corner near Atherton. www.flickr.com/photos/81936099

David Call

02/03/15 – 17:56

With the "home made" style radiator grille, it looks as if it has had a more serious encounter at "Dangerous Corner" – this one or somewhere!

Michael Hampton

03/03/15 – 06:24

True, Michael- or was it cross-bred with a Guy – a Leyland Arabic?

Joe

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

28/01/17 – 10:58

I’m surprised no one has mentioned that this was one of the last Massey built bodies as Northern Counties took over in 1968.

Paul Mason

Copyright Les Dickinson

Western National Omnibus Co Ltd
1939
Bristol L5G
Beadle B35R

This view of ex Western National No333 was taken at the Bristol Waterfront Running Day in 2011. It has a Beadle thirty-five-seat body and was in great shape, as can be seen. Thanks to all of you who have the ability, time (and money) to preserve wonderful examples like this.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson

10/05/13 – 06:41

…..and so say all of us, Les.

David Oldfield

10/05/13 – 17:26

Well said, Mr Oldfield!

Pete Davies

11/05/13 – 08:23

What a superb restoration! It is so different yet so similar to the standard ECW product. The subtle curves of the nearside and cab area are truly delightful.

Chris Hough