Copyright Unknown

West Riding Automobile
1951
AEC Regent III
Roe L50R

Another bus from the large West Yorkshire independent this time an AEC Regent III. West Riding did not favour any particular make of vehicle they had various models from each of AEC, Leyland, Daimler and Guy. How much nicer this bus would of looked with a shiny radiator instead of a painted one.

I don’t know who the photographer was but the location is Pontefract Bus Station. The bus is on the 192 service to Selby, which ran every two hours and which I caught home from school. The route was taken over from Bullock’s (B&S Motor Service) in 1950.

Del

Although the date of acquisition is 1951, the painted radiator may be a hangover from the Bullock and Sons takeover in 1950, as all their vehicles had painted radiators. West Riding also generally kept the buses acquired from B&S on the former B&S routes.
An interesting feature about this vehicle was the passenger seat design. The double seats, at least in the lower saloon, had a kind of staggered design to allow easy access to the window seat.

TC

The bus is most likely to have been allocated to the former B & S depot at Chimes Road, Selby which was demolished in the late 1990s and replaced with the present new one near the railway station. I did a fair amount of work out of both premises until retiring (from Pontefract depot) in May 2001 – I did many a trip on the modern version of this route and, although the Selby fleet was interesting and well maintained, never with a vehicle as delightful as the one shown.

Chris Youhill

09/06/11 – 08:43

This bus is not ex B&S the fleet number is too high it is one of batch of 10 and was allocated to Featherstone depot, at the time of this photo. as to the radiator if you look at photo’s of ex B&S AEC Regents they have chrome radiators ahl 927 fleet number 295 is a good example of this (can be seen in David W Allen’s book West Riding 2 page 71

Stan

28/10/11 – 16:20

Further to my last comment this bus was new to West Riding, in 1952, a full two years after they bought B&S so impossible to be ex B&S

Stan

28/10/11 – 16:26

I quite agree Stan, BBF 9 as the ex B&S Regents as BHL 641-3 and BHL 926 – 319-22 built in 1948

Peter

09/12/12 – 07:56

An excellent book called West Riding 1 in the Super Prestige range by David W Allen has nearly all West Riding bus and coach photographs in including several A.E.C centre entrance double deckers in both red and green livery. I worked at Belle Isle depot as an apprentice from 1956 and often travelled into the City centre on one of these fine machines. The pre select gearbox made them quick off the mark and ideal for city work because of the twin staircase and wide entrance.

Barrie Micklethwaite

09/12/12 – 11:43

Barrie – your last observation is so very true even though it applies to a totally different era, but quick loading was as important then as it OUGHT to be now. The Industry has completely lost the plot nowadays, admittedly partly "pushed" by such things as buggy accessibility etc. Towards the end of my career as a driver, and still as a passenger, I despair at the impossibility of present designs with a single doorway and the buggy/wheelchair bay right opposite the bottom of the staircase. Add to this the "double standard" operator publicity to "remain seated until the vehicle stops" by managements who know full well that if all passengers did so, in both saloons, the peak period buses would still be out after Midnight.
I must make clear that I am all in favour of good and sympathetic service for the passengers (and these modern "customers" whoever they are !!) but there are only sixty minutes in the hour. I have a wide experience of trying to keep time with single doorway buses and, due to resolutely refusing ever to drive badly, I was frequently late on busy journeys and man enough to shoulder all the resultant sneering and abuse from all quarters. Knowing full well that I could put up a good verbal defence on this issue the Management were never brave enough to tackle me about it and, had they done so, they would have been shot down in factual and statistical flames !!
Just in conclusion, notice how multiple doorways in London and on the Continent keep the bus moving, and all the much hyped nonsense about serious passenger accidents are wildly exaggerated – that’s not to deny that extra diligence from drivers is essential on such vehicles.

Chris Youhill

05/10/14 – 11:07

With reference to the AEC double decker, I used conduct on the Selby route when I started there in 1962 ,it started at Halfpenny Lane Pontefract on the odd hour went via Pontefract bus station to Selby, but the other buses Leyland PD1 and 2s and old Guys and Guy Arabs used to operate on the 192 Selby run.

Les Cranswick

06/10/14 – 16:45

TC – Noting your comment on the ‘staggered’ double seat design, I wonder whether this was in fact another example of the Sidil Morsat experimental seat of the period.

John Darwent

Leigh Corporation
1965
AEC Renown
East Lancs H41/31F

I think but I’m not over sure, but was the Renown to take over from the Bridgemaster does anybody know. This wasn’t the first time the Renown name had been used by AEC in the late 20s early 30s there was a six-wheeled chassis called the Renown. It would appear that the chassis was used for both double or single deck vehicles.

Picture here of a double decker (scroll down to first b/w picture).
Picture here of a single decker.

The Renown was a replacement for the Bridgemaster. The big problem with the former was that it was of integral construction, which at that time was unacceptable to just about every operator of any significance. In fact by the time the Renown emerged everybody was moving to Atlanteans and Fleetlines, so that was a flop as well!

Yet two more AEC dead-ends, to rank with the ‘Q’ the Regent IV and the Monocoach!

David A Jones

I remember that when AEC announced its intention to build the Renown, the shrinking market for front-engined buses was recognised, and it was intended that the new model should replace the full-height Regent V as well as the low-height Bridgemaster.  Quite why that didn’t happen I don’t know for certain, but in view of the Renown’s reputation for being over-engineered, I would imagine that production costs made it impossible to sell it at a price competitive with other full-height models. 

However, full-height Renowns were built in small numbers for Leicester, Nottingham and Wolverhampton corporations, the low floor being used to give greater headroom for passengers.

Peter Williamson

I’ve ridden a time or two on this preserved Leigh Renown vehicle and it is in very fine order indeed. I may be wrong, but I think I heard that it was involved in an unfortunate "shunt" recently on one of the Manchester Museum open days.
Quite apart from any mechanical or other difficulties I think that the lack of sales for the model can largely be summed up in three words – "One Person Operation" – it probably arrived on the market several years too late.

Chris Youhill

14/07/12 – 10:48

I have just found a brilliant facsimile of a Leigh Corporation Guy Arab model bus on EFE Models of Loughborough models, website based here in Derby.
From what I remember of the pre selnec days, I don’t think that the manufacturer has captured the original dark blue. Never the less its good to see that a model has at last seen the light of day.

Duncan N Smith

16/09/12 – 06:59

Looks like the model livery is correct. Leigh buses were light blue until a livery change in 1948. More details if you want them in the book ‘The Leyland Buses of Leigh Corporation’ Published by the Leyland Society and authored by Ron Phillips.

Frank Taylor

12/03/14 – 07:36

Oh how I remember with delight, the diversity of the Leigh Corporation fleet. I moved from London to the village of Glazebury, just outside of Leigh in the mid 1960,s and travelled daily into Leigh to work. My favourite bus was the A.E.C. Renown with it’s powerful sounding engine. My favourite journey, on the Renown, was the no.26 from Leigh to Manchester, especially if I managed to acquire an upstairs seat at the front. Another memory from those days is the TIM ticket machine, of which, I have several in my collection, including a 1930’s Leigh Corporation machine. Now resident near Plymouth, I am a member of Plymouth City Transport Preservation Group.

Eric Mansfield

Chesterfield Corporation
1960
AEC Reliance MU3RA
Willowbrook B42D

Chesterfield bought this bus from London Transport it was RW1 in their fleet. Roof windows were more likely to be found on dual purpose or coaches rather than on a bus but this bus had them. It also had a dual entrance with, as usual at London Transport a front entrance and centre exit, I am not sure if Chesterfield changed it to front only doors. If you know, let me know, please leave a comment.

A full list of Reliance codes can be seen here.

Nice photo of the RW, Chesterfield had just gone one man and from then until the mid 70s bought a lot of 2 door buses (about 75) double and single deck. The RWs (Reliance/Willowbrook) was the standard bus for several years in Grimsby-Cleethorpes, London tried 3 but then went for Swifts and Merlins.

David Harrison

Chesterfield obviously liked the RW Reliances as they were followed by a fair number of Neepsend/East Lancs Reliances. All of them had centre exits, which the RWs also retained. They were then followed by Daimler Roadliners – total disaster – and Leyland Panthers. All of these were also dual door.

David Oldfield

As an aside, what is the part-view single-decker with the stepped side windows on the right of the RW?

Chris Hebbron

I think the bus behind the Reliance is ERA 95. A pre-war gearless Leyland Tiger that had been given a manual gearbox and converted into a mobile canteen. If not it could be one of the single deck Crossleys, but they were all withdrawn when the Reliances arrived as they were their replacements.

Ian Couzens

BBF5 (1965 edition) shows 12 Crossley single-deckers on the fleet strength as well as the RWs, which arrived in 1963. The part of the body visible looks identical to the Crossley body on the preserved Chesterfield Leyland PS1. I should be very surprised if anything prewar had a stepped waistrail like that, since it appears to be derived from the post-war Manchester double deck design.

Peter Williamson

Glimpsing that Crossley-bodied single-decker I assumed the chassis was also Crossley, but the rear hub (had to look hard!) identifies as a postwar Leyland, two of which I understand are preserved.
I 1966 I arranged for a college nr Reading to buy NRA 717 and later became a part-owner. We passed it on to Alan Smallie of Worksop as a source of spares for his sister ships. Is either of them on the rally circuit?

Ian Thompson

One or two of the Crossleys survived quite late, although I think in some instances at least not in passenger service.
Chesterfield had Crossley single-deck bodies on PS1s, SD42s and, uniquely, on AEC Regals but I have never seen a picture of the AECs

David Beilby

Leeds also used roof line windows on single deckers in the nineteen fifties. Their small fleet of saloons were all centre entrance with vertiginous steps and carried 34 seated and 20 standees. The windows were so standing passengers could see the outside world! Leeds first dual door saloons Roe bodied AEC Reliances did not have the feature but it reappeared on the Roe bodied AEC Swfits in the late sixties. These were eventually painted over in PTE days

Chris Hough

In answer to David Beilby, there was a booklet; Tramlines to Fleetlines, a history of Chesterfield Transport, published by the Council and Transpire, the Chesterfield bus society which contained a picture of one of the Regals, JRA 653 (credited to R Marshall) It was one of four, I too thought they must have been unique! Not sure if the book is still around today, perhaps Transpire could help.

Chris Barker

Nice pics of Chesterfield Crossley-bodied Leyland PS1 JRA 635 on YouTube: Novawheels.

Ian Thompson

I’ve just noticed that the Reliance is described as MU3RA. Bus Lists On The Web has it as 2MU3RA. However, I once met one of these buses later in life with Brutonian, and it was semi-automatic, which would make it 2MU2RA. Does anyone have a definitive answer to this?
I’ve made an enquiry about the Transpire book. Meanwhile those interested in Alan Smalley’s Crossleys may like to take a look at this slideshow.
(No, neither of them is on the rally circuit.)

Peter Williamson

I’m told that the best place to enquire about the booklet "Tramlines to Fleetlines" would be Terminus Publications. Contact details at here.

Peter Williamson

Tramlines to Fleetlines refers to the early post war single deck vehicles all having Crossley bodies:-
2 x Leylands
4 x AEC Regal
20 x Crossleys
There were also 30 all Crossley d/deckers
The two Leylands were converted on withdrawal as PSV’s to a mobile canteen and a driver trainer – I suspect that it may be one of these two that feature in the photograph

Andrew Charles

09/02/11 – 06:33

I drove this bus for Chesterfield Corporation the lights were terrible not fit for rural work and it mainly worked the colliery routes around Chesterfield

Colin Ellis

24/03/11 – 06:31

These buses would regularly pick us up from school for our weekly visit to Central Baths on Ashgate Road in about 1971/2. They were often used on the more rural routes to places like Calow Green and Barlow etc. As a kid, I wondered why the upholstery of these buses was finished in red where other Corporation buses had the usual green upholstery.

Michael Ashley

24/07/12 – 18:19

When I was a small boy in Sheffield in the 1950s, my mum worked for Stephenson Blake, typefounders in Sheffield. For many years, the Stephensons took the staff and family members for a summer Saturday afternoon out to Hassop Hall in Derbyshire where they lived. On the occasions that I was taken we always travelled from Sheffield to the hall in Chesterfield Corporation single deck buses. It sticks in my mind that they were Crossleys and that they struggled a bit on some of the Derbyshire hills with their full load! We had a bit of a tour round before arriving at the Hall for the afternoon.
Sorry this isn’t very technical but I hope someone finds it of interest.
Presumably the buses were hired from Chesterfield because they were cheaper than Sheffield?

Stan Zapiec

25/07/12 – 07:01

The three RW class Reliances entered service with London Transport (Country Buses and Coaches) in August 1960, about the same time as I did – I started work from school at Reigate South Divisional Office on 29th August. Having standardised from 1952 on the dependable RF Regal IV for full sized single deck requirements, LTE started to make a cautionary appraisal of the Reliance, first with the RW, and then, in 1965, with the 36ft RC class (a fiasco that deserves a posting of its own on the site). The three RW buses had Monocontrol gearboxes and were thus of the 2MU2RA type, as Peter Williamson has correctly pointed out. The Willowbrook bodywork was added on to a production order for Grimsby Cleethorpes, and was of B42D configuration in line with LTE’s increasing interest in dual doorway buses.
Inevitably, the serious shortcomings of the AH470 engine soon became evident, and the inflexibility of the LT maintenance system built entirely round the removal of defective parts and replacement by Chiswick reconditioned units exacerbated the difficulty. LT garages did not have the expertise at local level for analysing and fixing engineering problems, a feature that was to emerge even more seriously later with the DM/DMS Fleetlines. The RWs were tried out on rural routes round the Country Bus system – I rode on them on the hilly 440 service between Woldingham and Salfords (near Redhill) – where the dual doorway concept proved to be something of a liability in constricted stopping places. After a mere three years in service, the entire class was withdrawn in October 1963, and then sold to Chesterfield in December of that year. Astonishingly, two of these buses still survive. Only RW1 featured in the picture above ended up in the scrapyard. The restoration of RW2 and 3, though entirely creditable, does illustrate yet again the distorted bias of the preservation movement towards LT vehicle types.

Roger Cox

26/07/12 – 14:15

RW3 (497 ALH) has been much in the news this year, having made its preservation debut at Cobham and subsequently taken part in the Brighton run. Its owners have undoubtedly done a first-class restoration. But this is how I remember it: as number 15 in the fleet of the Brutonian Bus Company of Bruton, Somerset, with whom it ran from 1978 to 1987. Seen here in the yard in 1983.

Michael Wadman

27/07/12 – 08:29

…..but I remember it as a Chesterfield bus.

David Oldfield

21/01/13 – 17:27

As a youngster I can well recall our journeys on the Owler Bar to Fox House part of the Summer Saturday and Sunday only Chesterfield – Fox House route 7. In those days, the route was via Cordell Valley, with a stiff climb up to Owler Bar. The Leylands (PS1’s) would growl and snarl their way to the top. the Crossleys (SD42’s) would struggle and my dad would often ask the conductor in jest if we could mash a pot of tea. The drivers had a struggle in getting away from the Owler Bar stop – no auto boxes then. I recall a visit to Derbyshire in the early 70′. The route was renumbered No. 4 and re routed via Holmesfield, an extension of the existing run from Chesterfield. Perhaps the buses of the 70’s were not man enough for the climb from Cordwell Valley To Owler Bar. I don’t think the route exists any more

Jerry Wilkes

22/01/13 – 06:42

Had a meal with my brother and sister in law at the Peacock, Owler Bar, just after Christmas. I well remember the Chesterfield buses on the Fox House runs – and Cordwell Valley was a favourite childhood haunt. The Panthers and Roadliners might not have been man enough for the job but the Neepsend Reliances were regular performers.

David Oldfield

14/09/14 – 07:13

I used to be a bus driver for Chesterfield Corporation Transport from 1966 to 1884. I drove all these buses on Homes Field Barlow the reason they used these buses was because the other buses was 36 feet long these was a lot smaller they had small buses on No9. Spiral run as well. I really enjoyed working as a bus driver with the Chesterfield transport until they brought in one Manning it took all the thrill out of working on the buses.

Brian Nicholls

11/09/16 – 07:28

Remember, the Crossley bus was on route to Fox House on Whit Monday 1965 1967.

Geoff

13/10/17 – 06:24

Please can anyone remember the mystery tours I believe on Sunday afternoons from Chesterfield East Midlands bus station!!…They went around the Peak District!! In mid 1960s….

Lyn Davey

18/01/18 – 09:09

I have only just found this site and find it very interesting as i worked for Chesterfield Transport for 39 years.I drove the 2 old ex-London buses and as i recall they spent a lot of time on Chesterfield to Spital route via Eyre Street, and had to do a reverse at the far end of Spital Lane. I can also remember the old Leyland that was converted to the Mobile Canteen. I worked on this old bus for 3 years.When it was converted it was driven as H.G.V.instead of P.S.V.

A. Ward

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

04/05/19 – 06:38

I went to school on ex-Chesterfield Weymann bodied PD2 (221 GRA and 229 LRB) both owned by Mulleys Motorways, of Ixworth, Suffolk. Both registrations were transferred onto newer coaches.

David Willis