Bolton Corporation
1961
AEC Regent V 2D3RA
Metro Cammell H40/32F

Taken in Bolton bus station this Regent V is working route 81 Four Lane Ends I’ll come back to the destination later. This was one of a batch of six Regent Vs they were the first and only AECs that Bolton took delivery of since the solitary AEC Q of 1933. Their post war double decker fleet apart from the odd batch of Daimlers CVGs and quite a few Crossley DD42/3s have been Leyland Titans and Atlanteans. All Bolton vehicles passed over to SELNEC on the 1st of November 1969. One of the Regent Vs registration SBN 767 fleet number 167 as been preserved and there is a very good shot of it here and guess what the route number and destination is.

Linking this post with the Bradford post and Chris Youhill’s most recent comments.
Nothing beats a Roe decker for me but, as I have said previously, I fully agree with Chris that the Orion is much maligned. Apart from the first "lightweight" models, the Sheffield examples were always well turned out and finished. I too, have a soft spot for them.
These Bolton examples look to be in the same mould, but are strangely out of place in this fleet. I never remember them in my time in Greater Manchester from 1971 to 1980.

David Oldfield

Sister vehicle SBN 767 is currently in the care of the Bolton Bus Preservation Group but is off the road awaiting restoration. BBPG’s active fleet includes former Bolton Transport East Lancs bodied Atlanteans 185 and 232 and similar (but longer and delivered in SELNEC orange) 6809.

Neville Mercer

11/05/11 – 07:13

Yes the sister vehicle is still barely in existence however it is in a very poor state after being abandoned on a farm for a number of years. I’m led to believe that the farm owner is due to cut up and scrap the remains due to the fact that the owner/s haven’t paid any rent for the vehicle.

A. N. On

12/05/11 – 07:10

I believe the route the bus is working on is a short-working of the old SLT trolleybus route from Bolton to Leigh from Howell Croft bus station. I think the full route to this day is still numbered 582.

Dave Towers

14/09/12 – 06:52

Just to get things correct the location is Howell Croft South. Howell Croft was split in two when the Town Hall, seen in the background, was doubled in size. The 81 was in-fact a short-working on the 82.

Malcolm Gibson

03/11/14 – 06:31

A short lived colour scheme … seemed odd at the time … but when a few of the older Leylands were painted in this scheme … definitely odd!!

Iain H

03/11/14 – 16:27

The colour scheme was Ralph Bennett’s first as Manager, based on the Plymouth scheme from whence he came.

Phil Blinkhorn

04/11/14 – 06:44

This colour scheme on this chassis/body combination gives them quite a Hebble look.

John Stringer

05/11/14 – 06:32

It always puzzled me why Bolton bought these, as they were completely non-standard. The pre-Atlantean fleet was quite a mixed one really, as though they couldn’t make their minds up quite what they wanted – although basically Daimlers and Leylands with MCW or East Lancs bodies, hardly any two batches were the same – 30′ Daimlers with rear entrance MCW or front entrance East Lancs, PD2s with full-front MCWs, PD3s with rear or front entrance East Lancs, or full fronts, etc.

Michael Keeley

05/11/14 – 11:33

I think that often when an operator – particularly a municipal one – purchased an odd batch of vehicles that seemed ‘non-standard’ to mystified enthusiasts it was usually to do with the tendering process resulting in an offer they couldn’t refuse (in the interest of saving ratepayers’ money) or the manufacturer being able to offer more attractive delivery dates than the preferred supplier.

John Stringer

05/11/14 – 15:37

John makes an excellent point. Many a manager who, for excellent engineering or operational reasons, wanted a particular vehicle type, found himself over ruled by his committee for political or "economic" reasons. One of the most crass decisions was that of the Manchester Committee which denied Albert Neal his desired Tiger Cubs and forced the Seddon bodied Albion Aberdonians on him, breaking their own Leyland/Daimler only purchase rules and then, as Leyland owned Albion, having them listed as Leylands and having the Albion badges which Seddon had affixed, removed.
Of course the vehicles had a long, distinguished career – long in being kept as often as possible in the depot, distinguished in being of poor finish, ride and serviceability.

Phil Blinkhorn

06/11/14 – 06:10

Manufacturers sometimes did bid low in an attempt to penetrate a "glass wall" of long standing custom and practice in purchasing followed by some municipalities. Municipal General Managers did succeed in getting their own way much of the time, as could be seen from the often dramatic change in favoured manufacturer following the appointment of a new GM, but Transport Committees were the ultimate power, and a low quotation would have been mightily tempting to the custodians of ratepayers’ money. (One can imagine the heated reaction in camera from a GM who had suffered the imposition of an unwanted vehicle type in the fleet.)

Roger Cox

20/07/15 – 05:38

Yes, I always thought the same as Michael about Boltons fleet. They seemed to have a lot of small batches which were all different, some 27 feet long, some 30, some with tin fronts, some St Helens moulded fronts, and some exposed radiators and also the same with Daimlers. When they changed to Atlanteans they seemed to become more standardised, some of the earlier ones had Metro Cammell bodies, then they seemed to standardise on East Lancs.

David Pomfret

Photograph by ‘unknown’ if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

A Mayne & Sons
1961
AEC Regent V 2D3RA
Park Royal H41/32R

As there has been a recent article about A Mayne & Sons on the ‘Articles’ page I thought this shot was appropriate. Here we have a rear entrance Regent V working its way through the busy streets of Manchester. The 2D model of the Regent V was 27 foot in length which would make getting through the narrow traffic laden streets of the city a little easier than the LD 30 foot model. It is fairly obvious to say the least, that it had a Park Royal body the top deck is very Bridgemaster. Maynes had three of these Regent Vs registrations 6972-4 ND all delivered in December 1961.

A full list of Regent V codes can be seen here.

2D3RA Regent Vs were 30ft long, most 27 footers were 2MD3RA (etc). LD3RAs were the original 30 footers with the earlier Regent III type A208 engine – as were the D3RVs of (for instance) Sheffield and Liverpool.
The series 2 models were brought in on the introduction of the wet-liner AV590 engine (AH590 in the Reliance). Some confusion arose, initially, when some were known as 2LD3RA models but eventually all became known as 2D3RA.
Similar confusion arose with later Reliances with 8U3ZR (coil springs) and 9U3ZR (12 metres) models eventually giving way to 6U3ZR for all variations and lengths of the 691 and 760 Reliances.
We can blame BET for the Bridgemaster ugliness of these, and the East Kent, Regent Vs.

David Oldfield

Regent V Mk 1: D and MD were 27ft long, LD was 30ft.
Regent V Mk 2: 2MD was 27ft long, 2D could be either 27ft or 30ft.
Maynes were 30ft, as indicated by the seating capacity.

Peter Williamson

There’s no doubt about it, Mayne’s was (and is) a fascinating operator, worthy of interest but, I feel, very under reported through the years, in fact I don’t recall seeing pictures of any of their vehicles before the Regent V’s. It would be nice to see a fleet history also.

Chris Barker

Venture Publications produced a well illustrated history of Maynes a few years ago which also contained an abridged fleet history. Don’t know if there are any left, but it might be worth trying their retail arm’s website (mdsbooksales). If not the book is widely available on stalls at rallies etc as a second-hand item. Hope this helps.

Neville Mercer

08/06/14 – 14:17

Talking about AEC Regent Vs, their designations, lengths, and capacities, I have a query which I have posted elsewhere, but, up to now, drawn a blank.
Garelochhead Coach Services purchased six Regent Vs new, plus, I think, a second hand one later. The ones purchased new were of type MD3RV or 2MD3RA, i.e. 27-footers with the smaller engine. All are recorded as having been 64 or 65 seaters, apart from the penultimate one, 49 (DSN 657D), which has always been recorded as a 73 seater. In photographs it looks to have been the same size as all the other Garelochhead Regent Vs, and the only suggestion that there was anything different about it comes from the body number, which apparently had an ‘A’ suffix. Can anyone explain?

David Call

The City of Oxford Motor Services
1956
AEC Regent V MD3RV
Weymann H30/26RD

City of Oxford I think were one of AECs most loyal customers. According to my 1963 British Bus Fleets South Central book it states that as from 1927 apart from a batch of 5 Dennis Loline Mark IIs delivered in 1961 with AEC engines by the way, all their vehicles were AECs. Interestingly enough the next batch of vehicles ordered after the Lolines were AEC Bridgemasters. What I find strange, and I hope someone can explain why it was that the Bridgemaster had been available from 1956, why wait until December 1961 to take delivery of their first batch. Not to mention the fact that they took delivery of 15 lowbridge Regent Vs as well as the 5 Lolines in the 56 – 61 period. As a matter of interest they also took delivery of 30 highbridge Regent V MDs and 16 LDs in the same period of which the vehicle in the above shot is one of the first. It was chassis number 29 of the MD variant and had as can be seen an exposed radiator rather than the more recognisable concealed version more associated with the Regent V. All City of Oxford 27ft Regent Vs were MDs (Medium Weight) having the smaller AEC AV470 7.68 litre six cylinder diesel engine. But they were not quite so loyal when it came to body builders Park Royal and Weymann were the norm for the double deckers, apart from a batch of 5 Regent Vs and the Lolines that had East Lancs bodies and the first batch of front entrance Regents that had bodies by Willowbrook. I am afraid that is where my information ends but if you know something that maybe of interest to others your comments are more than welcome.

A full list of Regent V codes can be seen here.

I think you’re a little unfair about loyalty with bodywork. When you buy one car or bus at a time you can be loyal to one maker. When you bulk order you have to be aware of the capacity of the supplier – which is why most large operators (even London Transport) dual sourced. At least COMS managed fidelity to AEC – with which I would fully concur – and the two bodybuilders were among the acknowledged best at their craft at the time. [Lolines were only available late in Weymann’s life but maybe they were arguing with Dennis for an AEC option when the body style and finish of the Bridgemaster was truly dreadful.]
Whatever the reasons; maroon, cream and duck-egg green AECs – that is the heyday of a superb operator.

David Oldfield

P.S. Re-reading Alan Townsin’s chapter on the Bridgemaster in his "Blue Triangle"…..
The original version was attractive with curved profile and aluminium body but BET were likely to be the model’s biggest customer. They wanted steel frames and single skin domes, like the MCW Orion, and a wholesale re-think had to be made.
Very few of the original Crossley built Bridgemaster’s were made before it was totally retooled and production moved to Park Royal from whence came the uglier production model. This probably helps answer why COMS didn’t buy Bridgemasters before 1961 – that and being on the end of a queue which would involve PRV vehicles for other customers. The Bridgemaster was now firmly based in London and would, or could, not be sub-let to Crossley or Roe.

I don’t know who took this photograph but I know the setting is Gloucester Green Bus Station in the heart of Oxford.
Oxford Bus Co’s livery was absolutely gorgeous, restrained and stately but still gorgeous!!

George Taylor

23/03/13 – 08:02

Eventually this ended up with Wallace School of Transport as a driver trainer bus – I took my PSV test on it in 1970

Brian Lamb

23/03/13 – 12:28

Coming from a Leyland/Daimler Orion bodied stronghold on my visits to Oxford with my father in the late 1950s/early 1960s I always thought this batch had a certain refined air about it. Again, coming from the a place where the Orions were coated in acres or red or green the Oxford livery was to my eye very attractive.
A few words on the Bridgemaster. Alan Townsin is, of course, correct regarding the BET demands for the Bridgemaster. The original bodies were developed from a specification drawn up at Park Royal but the final design and build was by Crossley at Errwood Road using the basic outline and many of the panel sizes of the then current Park Royal design it was also building. It is interesting to see that a few of the design touches of the original were incorporated into some orders throughout the production run see: www.brindale.co.uk/  
Whilst Graham Hill’s information on the site is a little suspect e.g. his contention that the Lodekker (sic) had saturated the market leading to poor Bridgemaster sales, the pictures show well the versions of the final design though, as it is a Park Royal site, omit pictures of the Crossley version shown here: www.sct61.org.uk/  
I was told by an ex Crossley employee who was there to the end that the transfer of the Bridgemaster to Park Royal, which was pretty much the final nail in the coffin of Crossley, would not have been so final had there been a commercially viable demand from non BET operators who would have specified the original body, leaving Park Royal to deal with the BET revamped design. As it was, no significant interest was shown and the shut down went ahead.
Regarding Oxford’s order, whilst BET companies could deviate from group policy, at the time the group was pressurising its constituents to take the Bridgemaster. With a very much AEC dominated fleet Oxford found it hard to resist unlike Ribble, North Western and other fleets which had either a Leyland dominance or a more diverse fleet.

Phil Blinkhorn

26/03/13 – 06:38

While the redesigned Bridgemaster is widely regarded as a styling disaster, it is often forgotten that some of the rear-entrance examples were nothing of the kind, as is well illustrated by the photos of the Sheffield buses on Graham Hill’s site (see Phil’s brindale link above).

Peter Williamson

30/10/16 – 06:28

Watching a 1963ish Youtube video on the Outwell and Upwell Tramway I saw a familiar sight: a 1949 City of Oxford AEC Regent III with 56-seat highbridge Weymann bodywork stopping to pick up a lady—and here’s the less familiar bit—who was standing on the railway track. The by then diesel-hauled farm-produce trains that ran along the roadside made only a handful of trips a day so using the tracks as a bus-stop posed little danger.
I couldn’t make out an operator’s name, but I’m sure someone here knows!

ps.
I should have said that the film is Huntley Archives no 521. OFC 383 here appears to have platform doors, which I thought were fitted by Smiths of Reading on acquisition. Could this bus have passed from Smiths to a third life on the Fens? If so, that would date the picture to about 1966-67.

Ian Thompson

30/10/16 – 14:41

I think that the Regent III is OFC 390 which was acquired by Smith (Bluebell) of March in February 1962 and was fitted with doors for them. It lasted until March 1966.

Nigel Turner

30/10/16 – 16:21

I thought that the Oxford "Country Buses" – out of town services like Kidlington – of that eras had doors from new?

Joe