Copyright David Butterworth

Oldham Corporation
1958
Leyland Titan PD2/30
Roe H35/28R

I Would like to contribute the above photo of Oldham Corporation 451 taken after its first repaint – so minus the waistrail white stripe and the intricate lining out (abandoned when these vehicles were repainted in 1965). The interior paintwork was changed also from the original hammered metal finish to a plain cream finish on the majority of the buses.
The first example of this batch to receive a repaint was 439, in January 1965, after substantial repairs following a serious front end collision the previous summer, when it had ploughed into a terraced house on Manchester Road whilst operating on route 98. The Oldham Chronicle carried a story with a photo of 439 embedded in the house with its crumpled bodywork surrounded a pile of bricks. No one was injured apparently.
I well remember riding on it from school to home one evening in January 1965 on the B (later 21) route.

Photograph and Copy contributed by David Butterworth

A full list of Titan codes can be seen here.

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23/01/12 – 07:52

These buses were a great favourite of mine. The Roe bodies were very well appointed and in the original livery with the red lining out they looked very classy. I rode on them frequently on the 9 route from Rochdale travelling to Watersheddings to watch the rugby. They were extremely comfortable and smooth riding. Oldham had a good team in those days and invariably beat Rochdale Hornets in the local derbies.
I agree the buses lost a bit of their class in the simplified livery, initially retaining the original maroon to be replaced later by the Pommard and Cream livery which Oldham adopted up to absorption into SELNEC. I understand there were problems with the maroon fading which led to the ultimate change to the purpley red shade of Pommard. Like most of the Manchester area half-cabs they didn’t look too good in the SELNEC orange and white.
They had a fair turn of speed and were much faster than Rochdale’s Gardner engined Regent V’s which often operated the Rochdale share of the 9 route which was jointly operated by Ashton, Oldham and Rochdale Corporations.
They also worked on the 24/90 Limited Stop service between Rochdale and Manchester where they could show their paces to good effect, particularly on the 90 which ran non-stop between Royton and Manchester.
The Roe bodied examples of Oldham’s large fleet of PD2’s always seemed to be a cut above the Northern Counties and Crossley bodied examples and there was definitely no contest with the Metro-Cammell Orions which were positively spartan by comparison.
The photo also shows us that Oldham was among the small band of operators that used route letters for some of their services. To set the hare running I can bring to mind others as Middlesbrough, Portsmouth and Exeter. I am sure someone will soon add some more!

Philip Halstead

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23/01/12 – 10:15

Yorkshire Woollen District used route letters on their Dewsbury area tram replacement services.

John Stringer

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24/01/12 – 05:57

Lettered bus routes sometimes came about when the bus routes came along in conjunction with the trams. The trams had the numbers, so the buses got the letters.
I’m intrigued about a reverse situation with Cheltenham, which always had route numbers, tram and bus, but, at some point, in recent years, changed over to letters.
Bizarre!

Chris Hebbron

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24/01/12 – 15:45

Mexborough and Swinton used route letters until the trolleybuses were phased out in March, 1961, at which time they switched over to numbers.
Rotherham Corporation ran jointly on the trolleybus routes to Mexborough and Conisborough, the Rotherham saloons showing either 8 or 9, and the Mexboro’ Sunbeams ‘A’ or ‘B’ respectively, until the changeover.

Dave Careless

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24/01/12 – 15:46

I seem to remember (from 1956) that Great Yarmouth had a mix of lettered and numbered routes. I think all the lettered ones went to Gorlestone, but not all Gorlestone services were lettered ones. I have the distinct memory that route 3 started from Newtown on the northern edge of Yarmouth, and terminated at "Gorlestone (Green Ace)" – presumably a hostelry!

Stephen Ford

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25/01/12 – 13:14

Middlesbrough Corporation also used route letters. Teesside Municipal Transport carried on this tradition for a number of years.

Stephen Bloomfield

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20/02/12 – 13:38

Cheltenham switched to letters in the late 1980s when the Gloucester and Swindon operation was separated from Bristol. Both Gloucester and Cheltenham started minibus operations under the Metro name, and to avoid confusion Gloucester went for numbered routes and Cheltenham went for lettered. The one Cheltenham town route that kept a number for a while longer was the Prestbury-town-Coronation Square route 2 (which had full sized buses), but that eventually became the A.

James McLaren

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20/02/12 – 17:12

Thx, James, for the answer to my question. A strange decision, really, since that neither towns’ local services ever strayed beyond their boundaries before or after minibuses came along. Still, it makes for variety. Does anyone know of any other bus companies currently using lettered routes?

Chris Hebbron

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21/02/12 – 07:15

The Hebden Bridge local services supported by Metro and operated by Tyrer Tours use letters A – E. These were introduced in 2003 when First commenced operating the revised services with Optare Solos and Aleros supplied by Metro.

Ian Wild

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21/02/12 – 07:18

Stagecoach Devon’s Exeter city services are still designated by letters, and it seems that to a large extent they are the initial letters of the suburbs to which they run – e.g. P – Pennsylvania; A – Alphington.

Stephen Ford

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12/01/13 – 16:15

Try Preston corporation buses. Fp was Farringdon Park and there would have been others.

Andrew

Copyright Stephen Howarth

Oldham Corporation
1958
Leyland Titan PD2/30
Roe H37/28R

I have been having a rummage through a few pictures and came across this one. Whilst it is not the best photograph in the world, I am sure it is of historical interest.
The vehicle on the right is one of Oldham Corporations 1958 ‘Tin front’ Titans fleet number 443, it was transferred to SELNEC on November 1969, and re-numbered 5343 in that fleet. In this photograph it is still in the Crimson and White lined out livery, which Oldham used until 1966, when replaced with Pommard and Devon Cream. It is photographed in Lever Street Manchester, (destination blinds showed Stephenson Square), operating the service 13 to Uppermill via Oldham and Scouthead. This service was a Limited Stop service operated jointly with Manchester Corporation Transport.
What is interesting with the photograph is that I caught a Maynes of Manchester AEC Regent operating on their service between Droylsden and Manchester Dale Street. Unfortunately the speed of the bus has made the registration unreadable, and there is no record on the rear of the photograph. But it looks like one of their AEC Regent V, with Park Royal H41/32R bodies.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Stephen Howarth

A full list of Titan codes can be seen here.

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06/11/11 – 12:25

Aah, my favourite vehicle from my favourite batch of Oldham’s buses. These PD2s were superb inside and out, but sadly got more and more disfigured over the years with moquette seats replaced by vinyl ones and the original elaborately lined-out livery changing first to an unlined version, then pommard and cream and finally, for some, SELNEC’s orange and white.
443 escaped some of these treatments. As the batch were being worked through for re-certification when twelve years old the policy was changed so the earlier examples received orange and a five year ticket. 443 was done later and only got three years in total. To cut down on costs it wasn’t fully repainted but tidied up in pommard. This work was done at Stockport and as a consequence the original interior survived largely intact.
It survived a bit longer as it was used as a skid pan bus at Hyde Road for a while after withdrawal. I have a photo of it there carrying the grille (and therefore registration) off 442 – very confusing!
The Mayne’s bus will be on the Audenshaw to Dale Street service – the Droylsden service was numbered 46 and more significantly, ran to Stevenson Square, although both traversed this section of Lever Street. It can be identified as 6974 ND, a 1961 AEC Regent V 2D3RA with Park Royal H41/32R body of a particularly ugly design.
The photograph will have been taken just before quarter past the even hour, as that is when Oldham’s bus on the 13 left, the other bus after the odd hour being a Manchester one. North Western worked the opposite way round to Uppermill via Lees on the 14, then returning via Scouthead to Manchester as a 13.

David Beilby

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06/11/11 – 17:03

A close colleague of the (A) Mayne’s bus is already on this site at this link. Doesn’t it look like a Bridgemaster – & the height is not all perspective, has it – no dome?

Joe

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07/11/11 – 07:39

It’s exactly the same as the second Bridgemaster body – except, obviously, for the height. If you mean does it have a flat roof profile, the answer is yes.

David Oldfield

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07/11/11 – 07:40

As David B said, the Park Royal bodies on that batch of Maynes Regent Vs were particularly ugly, and they were the last ones bought before Maynes switched to East Lancs. As an enthusiast I have always liked to think there is a connection between those two facts, but I have no evidence for this.

Peter Williamson

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07/11/11 – 12:11

Well the East Lancs bodies were a distinct improvement aesthetically – but were they East Lancs or Neepsend?

David Oldfield

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08/11/11 – 06:40

I agree with David Beilby, these Oldham PD2’s always exuded an air of quality with their comfortable interiors and lined out livery. I rode on them regularly on the 9 (Rochdale-Oldham-Ashton) and 24/90 (Rochdale- Manchester) routes. On the 90 Limited Stop service which ran non-stop from Royton into Manchester they could turn in a fair pace along Broadway if they got the many sets of traffic lights in their favour.
Regarding the ugly Park Royal bodies on the Maynes AEC, I did once read somewhere that Southampton turned away from Park Royal and moved to East Lancs after being very unimpressed with the abominations Park Royal inflicted on them on both Leyland PD2 and AEC Regent V chassis using the Bridgemaster derived design. I don’t know if this was true or even if operators cared about the appearance of their buses from a design point of view. Perhaps some did.

Philip Halstead

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08/11/11 – 10:45

Well Philip, they certainly forsook the same PRV abominations for East Lancs/Neepsend – whatever the reason. [Swindon, Yorkshire Traction and Yorkshire Wooken also had versions – the latter two by Roe – not to mention the first ACV Atlanteans, again built by Roe.]

David Oldfield

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10/11/11 – 07:37

Similar very ugly Park Royal bodies were bought on a batch of PD2s by Southampton. These seemed incredibly top heavy due to their short length.

Chris Hough

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10/11/11 – 07:38

I am sure that the Southampton story is true. Possibly not all, but certainly many municipal General Managers had definite ideas about the standards of vehicle design and appearance. Inevitably, the name of Geoff Hilditch springs to mind, but he was by no means alone in holding such views, and the municipal GMs held regular get togethers at which opinions were frankly exchanged. I have some Southampton pictures that I will submit in due course.

Roger Cox

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10/11/11 – 07:39

To answer David’s question, Maynes had two Regent Vs bodied by East Lancs in 1964 and three by Neepsend in 1965.

Peter Williamson

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10/11/11 – 17:02

Thanks, Peter

David Oldfield

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20/12/11 – 06:40

I too agree with David Beilby’s comments about the Leyland/Roe Titans 429-452. I remember riding on them to and from college/Oldham Music Centre, on the 9 (409) bus route (437,443 and 449) in the mid 1960’s when they still carried their original livery. Around 1964/5 I recollect seeing a few examples on our route (B, Fitton Hill-Middleton Junction), and off their usual routes. It was the elaborate lined livery which caught my eye, as the usual buses on this route were unlined by that time or indeed like Leylands 388-407 and 413-418 (NBU 488-507 and NBU 513-518), never had been. I used to take notes of the bus numbers over a period of twelve months in 1964/5. I rode on 432,433,438,446,447,448,451 and 452 – to and from school in Fitton Hill. Since they were used primarily on the trunk routes I couldn’t understand why; even so, with their increased seating capacity of 65 they were a welcome sight. By this time they were looking tired (435,440 and 452 particularly so) and before long a simplified livery was applied-what a disappointment!
By mid July 1966 they were introduced to our route in number, having been cascaded from the trunk routes when the Leyland Atlantean invasion gained ground.

D. Butterworth

Photograph by ‘unknown’ if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Oldham Corporation
1963
Seddon MK17L
Seddon B36F

Another shot from the ‘Do You Know’ page and it appears this is not strictly a PSV, but as Peter Williamson, Stephen Howarth and Les Ronan made the effort to solve the mystery I think it only fair that their information is posted in the usual way.
The above vehicle was actually operated by the Oldham Education Committee and not the Transport Department. It had a two tone Green livery instead of the usual Crimson and Cream of the Passenger Transport Department but it was garaged in their Bus Depot in Wallshaw Street. It was used mainly to transport children to and from school but during the day it would take children to the local swimming baths for swimming lessons. The vehicle was sold by Oldham Corporation in 1972 and appeared in quite a few dealers before being scrapped in 1981 I suppose if it was not classed as a PSV then there would not be many buyers for it. On a personal note I was in the fortunate position of being transported to and from the swimming baths on a Maudslay half cab coach owned by Glenways of Ripponden, I can see that big ‘M’ on the radiator now, no photos I am afraid and I doubt if anyone has, but you never know!!!
(You know where I am if you have)

21/02/12 – 08:06

I thought you may like to see a front near side view of 203 FBU school bus.

Stephen Howarth

21/02/12 – 16:37

Was the bodywork unique? I don’t recall seeing another like it.

Chris Hebbron

10/01/13 – 09:32

Hi I am now resident in South Africa, Pennine was a brilliant place to work, after serving my coach building apprenticeship of 5 years at Star Bodies, Pennine was the first company to pay one pound an hour in the area so we all flocked to Pennine to work, anyway just a bit of info.

Eric Chapman

14/01/13 – 13:27

Great photo of 203 FBU. I belonged to the Buckley Wells enthusiast group and later the Crossley Omnibus Society led by Stan Fitton and we had Oldham 368 kept in the Wallshaw St depot, often as not next to 203 FBU which I always remember, but being young, didn’t record any info on it, like chassis number. If anybody has it, could you post a reply please. 203 FBU was often out during the day with school parties and I remember being taken for a run around Glodwick in it by a mechanic checking that some work had been done properly. I’ve lived in Australia for over 40 years but remember this bus with its beautiful livery. No, I haven’t seen any Seddons around the world with this style of body. A few Seddons did come to Australia and a lot of Seddon Pennine 4’s went to Fiji and Malaysia but not with Seddon bodies. There are still some in service in Fiji, greatly modified, most with Leyland engines from Albion Vikings, but Seddons underneath.
Of course didn’t dare attempt a photograph of 203 FBU in the depth of Oldham’s depot, that was left for professional to do with good cameras, not my crappy Bencini. So thanks to Stephen Howarth for the photos.

Ian Lynas

28/02/13 – 17:14

Some Oldham buses had a distinctive "exhaust" roar 437/443/452/460 plus various M.C.T.D 3555/3557 etc, was this something to do with "Leyland Motors" as it was supplied or down to corporations experiments on power/economy measures. I lived on the "59" route at Mills Hill going up to Oldham it was a hard slog [especially on a Crossley!] regular boiling/steaming engines, often to include 433/440 /437/455.

David Bell

01/03/13 – 05:51

Stockport’s PD2/30 333-342 of 1958 all had a similar "bark" whilst the 1960 deliveries if the same chassis (343-352) didn’t.

Phil Blinkhorn

11/09/13 – 08:30

In the early 1970’s my interest in buses and coaches was started by riding daily on one of two Pennine IV vehicles with Plaxton Panorama Elite II bodies owned by Knightswood of Watford. One of the pair was on show for Plaxtons at the commercial motor show prior to delivery. Those Perkins engine coaches were fine vehicles in my recollection although I was only a kid at the time. Later they bought another Pennine IV with a Perkins V8 engine and Van Hool Vistadome coachwork. It was a noisy beast even though the floor was almost flat. These days they would require industrial ear defenders. After a couple of years the whine of the rear axle was excessive and resonated with the roar of the V8 as it wound it’s way home along the B462…

Julian

23/05/14 – 13:07

This unusual Seddon ran for the "230th Johnson-Hewlett Manchester Boy Scout Group" with a large roof rack, still in two-tone green.
This group also owned ex Western National Bristol L5G 1743 (RTT 953) in 1976.
They appear to have deregistered as a charity in 2009.

Dave Farrier

30/09/14 – 18:30

I remember the chassis being tested at the Shaw Road works and when Chief Engineer RW told the driver to go, it did a wheelie down the shop. The test driver wasn’t too pleased, neither was RW but it didn’t stop them producing. This would explain the wooly steering.

Trevor Gough