On YouTube there is footage of a ride aboard Chester Guy Arab DFM 347H. The bus has a manual gearbox and Gardner engine and sounds delightful. However, what intrigues me is the high-pitched 'whistle' that rises and falls with the engine revs. It sounds somewhat similar to a turbocharger, but I know it's not. There is another clip of an older Chester Arab (RFM 641), again with Gardner engine and the same 'whistle'. I had heard that the noise is peculiar to Guys and emanates from the flywheel, and did wonder whether maybe it's the combination of the Gardner flywheel vent holes and Arab clutch assembly making this deliciously addictive sound. Does anyone know what the cause is?
Brendan Smith
15/05/11 - 17:51
My word Brendan that brings back happy memories of my beloved (I make no apology for that term) JUA 763 of Samuel Ledgard's Otley depot. I know that most buses of all types have a "character" in some degree but 763 was a Palladium star turn and a delight to drive and to travel in. It whistled in exactly the manner you describe, and each gear change was accompanied by the most delightful soft "tinkling" which I imagine could be attributed to the clutch. Those not in the know could have been forgiven for thinking that various parts in the transmission were about to come asunder, but this was not the case and it was all part of that magnificent symphony of utter reliability. I can't describe my sad feelings as I asked if I could use it on a November 1961 Sunday late turn consisting of five return journeys from Otley to Leeds - it was its last licensed day before being withdrawn.
Chris Youhill
16/05/11 - 09:15
Brendan Smith has mentioned a Guy feature that appeared on the Wartime Guy Arab 1 and 2 chassis from 1943. Sheffield had 20 buses delivered in 1943/4, most with 6LW Gardner engines and five with the 5LW. On each gear change, up or down, a high pitched whistle was present. This noise was allegedly caused by the two plate clutch originally fitted. A later change to a single plate clutch seemed to cure the problem. I am intrigued to learn of these later "Whistling Guys". Answers Please!
Keith Beeden
17/05/11 - 11:03
I had to have a wry mischievous smile at Keith's account of how the clutch "problem" was "cured" by the fitting of a different type of clutch. To enthusiast drivers like me such a measure would not be a cure by any means, and would be the equivalent of removing the string section of the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra or blanking off some of the more delicate and tuneful pipes in a cathedral organ !!
Chris Youhill
18/05/11 - 06:34
A Whistling Guy In reply to Chris. I am in full agreement of the statement that the musical character of transmission sounds are a joy. My memories of the 20 Sheffield Guy Arab buses were of charismatic quality. The 6LW powered type became my favourite example, with its Gardner bark,whining gearbox and burbling exhaust note Sheffield terrain including many steep hills was responsible for poor service life from the 2 plate clutch. In response to this, a new single plate variety was the outcome, which improved the reliability. Like Chris, I applaud the musical emissions from a variety of bus models!
Keith Beeden
18/05/11 - 10:15
Welcome to the Philharmonic Appreciation Society Keith !! For other fine performances not to be missed, a hard working Bedford OWB/OB is a boisterous joy, and the much maligned Bradford City Transport Mark V Regents in their mountainous home territory gave magnificent concerts from every component - I say "much maligned" because the population at large seemed to attach far too much importance to being hurtled up and down the gangways and to the odd bruise or two, these features being caused entirely by bad driving !!
Chris Youhill
19/05/11 - 06:67
Talking of the Bedford OB/OWB, the most entertaining ride I ever had on one of these was a preserved ex-Portsmouth OWB with a bad case of Bedford Cough. In fact there was a cough, followed by a one-second pause, every single time the driver opened the throttle. Now imagine hitting a hill and having to double-declutch down from silent fourth to wailing third. Cough . . . vrroom-click . . . cough . . . woo-oo-oo-oo...Pure magic!
Peter Williamson
20/05/11 - 22:25
I don't have an answer to the question but can recall vividly a ride on a preserved LUT Arab IV with a very unforgiving gearbox at one point the clunks were so loud I thought we might have left it in central Manchester! but my it was melodious like listening to Mozart! Leeds AEC Regents were another group of vehicles which always seemed to have a Southall whine of their very own particularly from rest while West Ridings ill fated Wulfrunians often sounded like motor boats as they chugged past you
Chris Hough
23/05/11 - 07:38
I have some recordings of some of the more musical gearboxes, and if I ever have time I intend to find a way of editing them so that the notes are "frozen" and can be analysed properly. Most of them I think produce two or three notes in musical intervals of thirds and/or sixths, which are quite harmonious. But I'm fairly sure that the Guy Arab emits a seventh, which is a discord, and this accounts for its distinctiveness.
Peter Williamson
27/05/11 - 08:47
As well as the Chester Arab on You Tube their is also footage of an ex LUT Arab where the whine/whistle can be clearly heard
Chris Hough
29/05/11 - 07:15
What fascinating replies relating to the 'whistling' Guys. The 'cure' is very interesting though I must personally admit to preferring the 'affliction'. That said, the melody played by the gearbox with either clutch is still a joy to behold. Thanks Chris H for mentioning the YouTube Lancashire United 100 Arab clip (the ride on it starts at the 6.20 mark if anyone clicks on). It's very evocative, and that 'chuckle' from the transmission occasionally on setting off is reminiscent of some Bristol K's. Chris Y - just a cautionary note if you watch the clip, as one or two of the gear changes may either have you wringing your hands or taking a sharp intake of breath! Still an entertaining ride though.
Brendan Smith
31/05/11 - 11:33
To throw yet another spanner in the works, I once read somewhere that the Belfast Guy Arab IIIs also had a whistle. But they had preselector gearboxes, so in that case the fluid flywheel got the blame!
Peter Williamson
01/06/11 - 07:49
And now indeed I have found a YouTube of a Birmingham Arab IV with a fluid flywheel, whistling a happy tune. It's on Wythall Transport Museum, Worcs - 2009/3 click here and the best bits start at 5:40. Not a great video, but a lovely bus.
Peter Williamson
18/08/11 - 09:54
Thanks for this very interesting thread. My memories of Guy Arabs relate to Southdown’s Guys of 1943-1955 with Guy’s non-synchromesh gearbox. These Guys had the famous, unidentified, whistle which rose and fell with engine-speed. But I was interested in Peter Williamson’s comment on 23 May 2011. He’s quite right about the musical intervals (pitch differences). On third gear it was an augmented 4th, which was very inharmonious to my ear (I am a pianist). On second gear it was indeed a major 7th, which to most ears is also quite an unpleasant discord, though certainly distinctive. First gear was rarely heard on Southdown Guys, but I seem to remember it was a wider musical interval, something like an octave plus a minor third, which one might expect from a low ratio on this ‘box. Most beautiful by contrast, in musical terms, were Southdown’s Leyland PD1s and non-synchromesh PD2s. The crooning third gear was a major 3rd, second a major 6th, (both very agreeable). First was hard to describe, a rather thrilling low and tuneful song.
Yes, call me mad if you will!
Tony Evans
21/01/13 - 17:35
I found the sequence of comments from 2011 about the whistling noise that accompanied the engine revs on Guy Arab buses. I noted the complication of preselect buses from Belfast and Birmingham doing the same.
Having traveled on Walsall Mk III's (crash box), Birmingham Mk IV's (preselect and crash) and Wolverhampton's late Mk IV's and Mk V's (semi-automatic), I can categorically state that THEY ALL WHISTLED IN THIS WAY, and it was DELIGHTFUL.
Not only that, but West Bromwich late model Daimler CVG6's did too. I wonder if this was something to do with the merging of Daimler and Guy businesses?
Robin Draper
22/01/13 - 06:41
Robin. Almost certainly. The Daimler CCG6, loathed equally at both Manchester and Salford, was a result of the "marriage" with Guy and used Guy's constant mesh gearbox.
David Oldfield
25/04/15 - 09:24
Just to add to the mix, I remember traveling on Midland Red MkIII examples (GD6 type) late in their lives. They, too, whistled, despite having BMMO engines!
Allan White
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