Trent Double Decker

Sorry this is only half a Trent bus but could anyone tell me more about it please? The vehicle registration no is CH 4073, the number on the driver's door is 207 and the destination board reads 'Matlock'.
The conductor lived in Scotland until March 1924 so the photo must have been taken after that date.
I'd prefer that my details were not published, please.

Anon

28/03/15 - 09:47

Where is the conductor's lower arm? Was he a war casualty? A one armed conductor must have been well known? Sounds as if you know him, Anon? Or was he a cheeky chappie winding up the photographer? Was there a flat route to Matlock?

Joe

28/03/15 - 11:17

It may only be half a bus (well, even less) but what a wonderful photograph Anon. Other than to say that it is a Tilling Stevens I will leave it up to those more familiar with the Trent company to identify the bus and route, but I'm pretty sure the conductor is fully equipped to the tune of two in the arm department and simply has his right hand in his pocket behind his cash bag ! The bus looks to be brand new. Being a bus crew setting off on a journey in those far off days must have been quite an adventure.

John Stringer

28/03/15 - 14:41

Did the panel with the white hand painted on it flip out as an early form of mechanical indicator? Could it have been illuminated?
Or did it just become an aperture for the driver's hand to emerge through in order to give an arm signal, it looks a little bit too low for this.

John Lomas

29/03/15 - 06:55

The registration dates from the first half of 1924.

David Call

29/03/15 - 06:56

The 'white band's is an early form of mechanical indicator. The Driver had a handle which operated it. Whether it illuminated I do not know.

Stephen Howarth

29/03/15 - 06:57

After WW1, the Birmingham and Midland Motor Omnibus Company bought up many ex Army Tilling-Stevens TS3 petrol electric lorries and subjected these to several design modifications and experiments, from which ultimately evolved the 'in house' SOS. One of these design modifications involved a conversion to forward control (then known as 'forward dash') and the fitment of a double deck body. BMMO received 56 such machines in 1922-24 and these became the progenitors of the Maidstone built TS4 type which was available in normal or forward control. At the time BMMO had close engineering relations with the Potteries and Trent companies. I believe that the photograph shows a petrol electric TS3Z/TS4 (or, less likely, a TS6) of about 1923/4. The bodywork is by Brush with a capacity of 38 on upper deck and 26 below, though the total seating is sometimes stated as being 51. The BMMO examples had a forward entrance, but there is no evidence in the picture of a staircase behind the driver's cab of the Trent machine, so the doorway must have been at the rear. Can anyone with access to the registration details of this bus confirm or refute these thoughts, please?

Roger Cox

29/03/15 - 06:58

I reckon a one-armed conductor would have to be a juggler in the days of Bell Punch tickets! I am also of the opinion that he does have a right arm, which is either in his pocket or behind his back.
Trent's presence in Matlock was not all that great - the area being NWRCC territory. Their only (I think) normal service was route 4 which ran straight up the A6 from Derby to Bakewell, but quite likely with short workings to Matlock. I don't remember ever seeing double deckers on the 4 but that's not to say there were none. It wasn't a particularly hilly route, following the Derwent valley all the way. Obviously, in the 1920s before licensing, there may well have been more. There was, of course, also the long distance X2 Nottingham - Manchester.

Stephen Ford

29/03/15 - 11:53

A wonderful photo. I've doubts as to whether the conductor has one arm missing as I feel it would be impossible to do the job. It's more likely that putting his arm over the money bag would either look clumsy, or be uncomfortable. I notice that the driver has modified his cap in the stylish way often adopted by those who've served in the military - namely a slashed peak and removal/modification of the front top to soften the rigid look. Did it myself when serving my country! Perhaps he was in the Guards - I wasn't!

Chriis Hebbron

29/03/15 - 17:31

Trent purchased ten of these Brush bodied Tilling Stevens in 1924, they weren't the first double deckers in the fleet but they were converted to pneumatic tyres in 1928 and survived until 1931/32. After these, no more double deckers were purchased until the SOS FEDDs in 1936.
There appears to be other vehicles in the background and the location could be Albert Street bus station in Derby which opened in 1922. Double deckers were not unknown on the Trent route to Matlock, particularly on busy bank holidays but I believe they were unable to venture any further due to low bridges on the A6 road.

Chris Barker

29/03/15 - 17:32

Gentlemen
According to PSVC fleet history PE16 (Trent part 1), CH 4073 was a TSM TS6 chassis no given as 3146, bodied by Brush, (O31/26RO) and new in April 1924.
The solid tyres were replaced by pneumatics in 1928. It was withdrawn in 1932.

Bob Gell

29/03/15 - 17:34

In the book 'TrenT, A Pictorial Record' by Trevor K Brookes there is a picture of CH 4066, which on examination looks the same, or similar, to the one illustrated on here. The Fleet No. is 206, the one before CH 4073, No.207. It is shown as a Tilling Stevens TS6 with Brush body with a seating capacity of 57. 206 lasted until 1931, so perhaps 207 lasted the same amount of time.

Stephen Howarth

04/04/15 - 12:04

Many thanks to you all for your detailed information. The photo only turned up recently and, yes, the conductor (my father-in-law) did have two hands.

Thanks again.

Anon

07/04/17 - 07:17

CH 4073 TSM TS6 was new to Trent in in April 1924 fleet number 207. It was disposed off in March 1932 to a Mr Hobson of Derby and last licenced in May 1940.
I believe the photo was taken in Trent first bus station which was located in front of the Derby Market Hall, the roof line is just visible behind and above the bus. This was built in 1923 which meant all Trent arrivals and departures where in one place instead of using numerous other streets in town. The white painted hand on the side was indeed an early indicator. Thank you Anon for sharing this wonderful photograph.

Alan Hiley

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