Tillings Transport/Travel Confusion

My first post here, but I have been browsing the site on several occasions and have enjoyed both the photos and the varied and detailed postings and comments immensely.

I've been studying the PSV Circle's Eastern National fleet history recently and it contains several references to vehicles going out to and coming in from Tillings Transport or Tillings Travel.
In the absence of any further info (as far as I can see PSVC haven't to date published a Tillings Fleet History) I wondered if anybody could shed any light on the various Tilling companies referenced and the connections between each other and between them and ENOC.
As an example, vehicles were acquired by ENOC from Tillings Transport (BTC), London in 1963 but then they also acquired similar vehicles from Tillings Transport, Chelmsford in 1965.
Then later on in the 1960s, Tillings Travel (THC), Chelmsford is referenced (I assume to reflect the take over by the Transport Holding company) and in 1969 further reference is made to Tillings Travel (NBC) to reflect the formation of the National Bus Company, but in two locations - Chelsmford and Kelvedon...argh...
The only thing I am clear on is that Tillings Travel was eventually absorbed by National Travel South East in 1974.....
Any help in clarifying this gratefully received.
Many thanks for your time.

Paul Soper

14/02/13 - 07:20

I can help with the history of Tillings but I don't think anybody knows the real reason for all the vehicle swops.
The business was originally the private hire arm of Tilling's London business. It was enlarged in 1932 by the acquisition of the London part of National Omnibus & Transport when that company was divided to form Eastern/ Southern/ Western National.
After nationalization in 1948 it became Tillings Transport (BTC) Limited and acquired the business of Pat Hearn Limited in June 1951. This included a garage at Northdown Street near Kings Cross.
In the 1950s the offices were at Grays Inn Road and the fleet livery was grey with maroon wings. New Bristols replaced old AECs, some of which were rebodied.
In 1962 the business came under Eastern National control who moved the office to Chelmsford and redeveloped the Northdown Street garage as "Kings Cross Coach Station". The vehicles seem to have mostly moved to the Prittlewell (Southend) garage of Eastern National and were repainted cream and green. The official line was that "vehicles moved in and out of the two fleets in accordance with operational requirements".
Following the formation of the NBC the business became Tillings Transport (NBC) Limited. The businesses of Tillings, Samuelson and Timpson were later joined to form National Travel (South East) Limited and the coaches were moved to the former EN garage at Kelvedon (originally Moores Bros and now Hedingham Omnibuses).

Nigel Turner

15/02/13 - 05:42

Having consulted the archives I can now list the many names of this operator-
Incorporated 10.04.45 as "Removals & Storage Limited".
Name changed on 13.01.49 to "Tillings Transport (BTC) Limited" in order to acquire the London coach fleet of Thomas Tilling Ltd.
Name changed on 12.03.63 to Tillings Transport Ltd.
Name changed on 26.10.67 to Tillings Transport (THC) Ltd.
Name changed on 12.03.69 to Tillings Travel (NBC) Ltd.
Entire fleet transferred to Eastern National on 1.02.70 but returned on 1.01.71.
Company dormant from 1.01.74
Renamed National Travelworld Limited on 24.04.84.
Sold on 24.03.88 to Badgerline Holdings Limited
Renamed B.U.S. Limited on 27.04.89.
Company dissolved on 5.04.89.

Nigel Turner

15/02/13 - 05:46

So what exactly were Tillings Transport's operational requirements? Were they predominantly London private hire/charter? in which case moving some of the fleet out to Southend post-1962 doesn't make much sense - how were they occupied out there? I remember seeing a photograph of an LS/MW with boards for Thomas Cook - as Thomas Cook were also nationalised at that time then it seems reasonable that Tillings Transport might have provided coaches under contract to operate whatever UK coach tours Thomas Cook offered (perhaps aimed at overseas visitors?); and I once stumbled across an on-line listing of the routes from the first NATIONAL coach guide, in which Tillings was listed as operating a Southend-Liverpool service. Fleet strength obviously fluctuated - but does anybody have any ideas about its average(ish) figure? And finally, when did Northdown Street Coach Station Close, and what happened to the site?: a few years ago, when I'd a bit of time before my train back to Leeds, I had a potter round to see if I could locate anything, but I couldn't find any trace of where it might have "stood" [sic] - wasn't it partially underground?

Philip Rushworth

16/02/13 - 07:04

Thanks for your comprehensive answers Nigel - that's cleared up my confusion greatly. Very much appreciated.

Paul Soper

16/02/13 - 14:49

Having delved even further in to the archives, I can now give a potted history of Tillings Transport.
Although much of it's bus activities were by subsidiaries, Thomas Tilling Limited directly owned it's London bus, Brighton bus and London coach operations. The London bus business was transferred to London Transport in 1933 and Brighton went to the newly formed Brighton, Hove & District Omnibus Co. Ltd. on November 26th 1935, leaving just the London coach business.
As Tillings was retaining the rest of it's business after nationalisation of it's buses in 1948, the London coaches had to be transferred to a separate company. As it was (and is) cheaper to rename an existing company rather than form a new one, "Removals & Storage Limited" was renamed Tillings Transport (THC) Limited. At this point the coaches were being operated from Searles Road, New Kent Road.
Following the acquisition of Pat Hearn Limited in 1951, operations were from their garage at Northdown Street, King Cross with offices at Gray's Inn Road. The offices moved to 9, Euston Square on December 29th 1958 would would have been close to the Euston Square Coach Station used by various Tilling Group companies including Eastern National.
Once Eastern National had assumed control in 1962, they transferred admin to their head office at Chelmsford and vehicle servicing took place at the Central Works, also in Chelmsford. Vehicles were repainted cream and green, new coaches henceforth being registered in Essex. They then decided to rebuild the Northdown Street garage as "Kings Cross Coach Station" which resulted in most of the fleet being dispersed to EN garages.
As Philip Rushworth suggests, much of Tilling's work was on extended tours for Thomas Cook and similar organisations. EN had inherited this sort of activity from Westcliff and it would appears that it was all combined, but licenses were still held separately.
The early fleet of Tillings included Tilling-Stevens which were replaced by AEC Regals with Tilling built bodies. Early post war coaches were Bedford OB/ Duple followed by Strachan bodied Regals.
38 coaches of Leylands, AEC, Commer and Bedford manufacture cam from Pat Hearn in 1951. ECW bodies on Regal IV chassis (similar to LTs RFW class) came in 1951 and were then followed the the usual Bristol/ ECW combinations - LL6G, LS6B, MW6G and RELH6G with a few Bedford SB in the early 1960s.

One Tillings vehicle that has survived is MXB 733, a 1938 AEC Regal with a 1952 ECW body which I photographed at a Southend Bus Rally circa 1997.
I will come back to Philip's question about the location of Kings Cross Coach Station in due course - it has only been redeveloped in quite recent times.

Nigel Turner

21/02/13 - 07:09

Philip Rushworth asked about the Tillings Transport garage at Kings Cross which became the Eastern National Coach Station. Before getting into the details of this, it is first necessary to explain that there at least fourteen different sites around the Kings Cross area which were used as coach termini over the years so there is much scope for confusion. Luckily, Alan Osborne (who worked in the vicinity in the 1960s) has made a detailed study of these, the results of which were published in the London Historical Research Group Bulletin of the Omnibus Society in 2005.
I have found very little information about the business of Pat Hearn who used the area as a coach garage before being taken over by Tillings in 1951 although a map dated circa 1922 suggests that the building were present by then. Following the takeover, Tillings initially continued to use it as a garage. At this time Eastern National and other operators were using a "temporary" coach station on the corner of Judd Street and Cromer Street. This closed on December 31st 1953 and the Tilling Group opened a new one at Euston Square on British Railways land. Judging by the photos I have, the facilities there were on a par with Judd Street, i.e. nil.
As well as regular London express services, Eastern National was developing a number of Coach/ Air services between London and Southend Airport. This and the redevelopment of Euston Station seems to have prompted them to decided to turn the Tillings Garage in to a Coach Station. This opened in May 1963 and a small brochure was issued to show off it's facilities. This helpfully included a plan which shows a narrow pedestrian entrance next to 242, Pentonville Street, a coach entrance/ exit in Northdown Street and an unmarked entrance off Caledonian Road through Omega Place. This was/ is very narrow and was probably not used by EN. I first went to the Coach Station in 1972 when I took an Eastern Counties excursion from Norwich. This offered a choice of destinations - Kings Cross or London Zoo. Since I was the only passenger for Kings Cross, I doubt that the driver was amused. My objective, by the way, was the Bus of Yesteryear Rally at Somers Town Goods Yard. To be honest, I can't remember a lot about the interior of the coach station other than it was dark and gloomy. This probably explains why I can find only three photos of the place on the internet.
In 1973 the premises were renamed the "National Coach Station" and later some other operators moved in. Britannia Airways acquired the lease in October 1976 and Eastern Nation moved their 400 (previously X10) service out. Exactly when it was last used as a coach station I'm not sure of, but the premises were still largely unchanged in 2004.
The Almeida Theatre in Islington moved there in 2001 while it's own premises were being refurbished. More recently the Northdown Street entrance has been replaced by terraced buildings (No. 25?). However the "All Visual Arts" private collection is now housed in part of the premises, "in a newly refurbished 5000 sq ft former bus garage, previously home to the Almeida Theatre". This is accessed from Omega Place which incidentally was called Alpha Place prior to 1938 - a knowledge of classical Greek is required to understand the logic of that. The entrance at the side of 242, Pentonville Road is now an alleyway. Sadly I don't have any photos of the interior to offer, but I'm sure the webmaster will publish any that others may have.

Nigel Turner

23/02/13 - 11:55

To add to the details there is more information at www.sct61.org.uk. The Tilling fleet over the years has an interesting gallery which can be accessed from the home page.
At www.sct61.org.uk/ there is an internal shot of the Kings Cross depot area and www.sct61.org.uk/ shows a vehicle leaving the site.
During its coach station days it was entered from Omega Place and vehicles left up the ramp into Northdown Street where the second picture is taken. The Omega Street entrance still exists and can be seen at www.google.co.uk/maps (patience required for this one to load)
Mention has been made of a grey and maroon trim livery but its use was relatively short lived between the cream and black era depicted by MXB733 and the adoption of ENOC colours.
Even before ENOC took control in 1962, that company was used for major engineering work on Tilling vehicles and their coaches would often be seen at Chelmsford Central Works and at winter storage locations such as Prittlewell.
The full adoption of Prittlewell as a replacement site for Kings Cross depot was not until 1971 by which time the nature of the Tillings business had changed. Euston Square could boast a booking office and minimal other passenger services so represented a slight improvement over the previously used bomb sites.

Mike Grant

25/02/13 - 17:29

Thank you to everybody who was able to reply to my queries: now that I know what I'm looking for I'll have a nosey round the Northdown Street area again next time I'm "in town"; and am I right in gaining the impression that since there was a lot of over-lap between between Tilling/s [sic] business and the coaching side of ENOC, on whom they relied for engineering support, that it was seen as expedient to merge the two? And has anybody noticed how the fleetname was "Tilling" but the registered name "Tillings" - which, anyway, should be "Tilling's . . . " or "Tillings' . . . " dependant on how many Tillings were being referred to.

Philip Rushworth

24/04/16 - 07:30

Although it is now three years on since this topic was 'live' I would like to add a note about the Southend to Liverpool service referred to by Philip Rushworth that featured in the first issue of the National Coach Guide that was published for the Winter period 1973/1974. ('National' in this context meaning the white coach network branding of the National Bus Company).
That coach guide contained the timetable for a Southend-on-Sea to Liverpool service numbered 112 which may be seen here: www.ipernity.com/spoddendale/
Even though the network had the corporate branding the road service licences for the different services remained in the names of the individual operating companies. So beneath each timetable column there was a circled code to indicate the licenced operator(s).
Service 112 carried a 'TS' code signifying it was licenced to Tillings Travel (NBC) Limited. (The connecting service 183 from Ipswich carried the code 'EL' indicating the 'Eastlander' joint services operated by Associated Motorways, Grey-Green Coaches, Premier Travel Services and Travel House (Luton)).
As far as I am aware, although I would stand corrected, a road service licence for service 112 was never granted and the service never operated due to opposition by, amongst others, Premier Travel and Yelloway who claimed their joint services from East Anglia to the North West would lose traffic as a result of a licence being granted.
Service 112 was to be a totally new service perceived as a flagship of the new order. As part of its general marketing National produced a colour poster with a picture of a stagecoach above a picture of a Plaxton coach carrying service number '112' on the destination. The wording read 'The coach is dead. Long live the coach'.

David Slater

28/02/17 - 08:34

I hope you don't mind me following up this thread which has helped me to resolve a query over the exact location of one of my late father's bus photos. I have worked out (with the aid of a web site that lists closed pubs) that the 'Plasterers Arms' behind the word Tilling on the facade was in Eversholt Street and has now been completely obliterated by the office block complex in the south-east corner of the Euston main-line station complex. However the three buildings visible on the other side of Eversholt St. are still there - Euston House (the big office block), 'The Royal George' PH (partly obscured by the Plasterers) and the building with the gable end.

I have marked the approximate position of the Euston Square Coach Station, where the photo was taken, on an extract from the current OpenStreetMap (attached). You can include this map on your site with an "Acknowledgement - OpenStreetMap data is licenced under the Open Data Commons Open Database Licence (ODbL)."

The photo was taken on 29th June 1963. It shows Eastern National 505 (later 1331) a Bristol MW5G with ECW body.
The Commercial Motor 1st January 1954 records: "Euston Square, London, which has been leased by London Coastal Coaches, Ltd., is being prepared as a picking-up and setting-down point for their associated operating companies who previously called at Judd Street Station, coaches will use the highway to the west [sic], of Euston Square. The companies using the new site will be the Birmingham and Midland Motor Omnibus Co., Ltd., and North Western Road Car Co., Ltd., (joint services), W. C. Standerwick, Ltd., Ribble Motor Services, Ltd., and Scout Motor Services, Ltd. (joint services), Eastern National Omnibus Co., Ltd., Hicks Bros., Ltd., Yorkshire Services and Eastern Counties Omnibus Co., Ltd."
If anybody can add any more information on the site, e.g. when it closed, I would be interested to find this out.

Roger Monk

02/03/17 - 07:04

A. W. Monk is a name I have often seen on photos of the 1950s/ 1960s so it is good to hear from his son. I have always assumed that the Euston Square Coach Station closed in May 1963 when the Eastern National Kings Cross station opened. However I don't actually know when the BET companies transferred from Euston to Victoria.

Nigel Turner

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