Royal Coaches

Another RHG Simpson picture for the "Bus Detectives".
The name in the top glass, driver's side, says "Royal Coaches" I think. There is also a number 15 in the nearside window. Perhaps this is on a multi-coach works outing, or maybe acting as a service bus on some-one's route 15. Does anyone know?

Les Dickinson

26/04/13 - 12:00

I'll set the ball rolling by stating the obvious and leave it for others to pick up and run. Commer Commando/Plaxton with West Riding registration.....

David Oldfield

26/04/13 - 13:59

To state a bit more of the easy data, HWR was a Yorkshire registration issued from July 1948 to August 1949.

Stephen Ford

26/04/13 - 15:42

The nearside indicator reads private so I would incline to a private hire.
The terrain is reminiscent of the North York Moors. The figure at the side of the coach appears to have come from the lean-to shop attached to the cottage.

Chris Hough

27/04/13 - 07:53

What a very handsome little vehicle this was, although I can't remember a firm locally (Yorkshire) called Royal Coaches - could it possibly have been sold to another area when the picture was taken ?? Isn't it amazing how the shortened standard 33 seat Plaxton body always looks so very "right" on such smaller chassis - usually of course the wonderful Bedford OB - in fact I once had the pleasure of driving a rebodied prewar WTB with this style of body it was an ex Pynes of Harrogate vehicle registered DWT 250.

Chris Youhill

27/04/13 - 09:25

When I posted the shot of HWR750, I trimmed the shot to get a bigger pic of the bus. I now post the whole of original, which I bought in a pack labelled Yorks-West Riding (area, not operator) from RHG Simpson. The Duple coach following HWR was what led me to say that it may be either a works outing, or more likely, a road-run, given the number 15 posted in the window.
Does this give anyone further "inklings"?

Les Dickinson

27/04/13 - 11:44

Some years ago there was a small (two or three coaches) operator based at Adwick on Dearne near Mexborough who traded under that name. Seem to think that they ceased trading in the sixties.

Andrew Charles

27/04/13 - 12:12

It might be difficult to recall, now, Chris Y, but would you say there was much difference, in the round, between the Bedford WTB compared with the OB/OWB?

Chris Hebbron

27/04/13 - 12:13

Some more surmises! The lady outside the shop may well work there as she is wearing an apron and what look like slippers. My first thought, given the youthful appearance of the passenger in the nearside window and the person in the nearside front seat is that it may have been a school trip but the number 15 and the coach behind do possibly point to a "run" which the lady has left the shop to see, either out of curiosity at so many old vehicles passing or because she knew it was taking place.
The sign along the shop front doesn't help as it looks to say Players Please but the one above the lady's head could possibly be helpful. I'd be happy to have a go with Photoshop if I could have a full size scan emailed to me through Peter.

Phil Blinkhorn

27/04/13 - 13:11

I've done a basic clean and magnify on the photo. The sign sticking out from the shop says Senior Service Satisfy - so no help there. The female is wearing an apron and slippers so I think we can say she's from the shop. I'm going back to the "outings" theory. The specs the lad in the nearside front window is wearing are very much of the late 1950s/early 1960s. The lad in the nearside front seat has a DA style almost Teddy Boy haircut which were popular until the Beatles changed ideas, which almost rules out any sort of preserved vehicle "run". Given the school leaving age was 15 this could easily be either a school or works outing and the location could be anywhere in the West Riding, even on the edge of the conurbations.
I thought that there was a Plaxton body list on the Net somewhere but I can't find it. Any one any idea where to look?

Phil Blinkhorn

27/04/13 - 16:42

My tuppeneth
The lad in the front has some sort of badge on his shoulder (rather than a sticker on the windscreen) which could be scouts. There is another coach behind which looks 50's and could confirm the outing theory. Now... the stonework looks like Oolitic Limestone which runs in a belt from south of Doncaster (Somerset that would be) to north-east Yorkshire. It is easily worked for building. And so, Holmes, that makes it the bottom of the hill on the old A1 that once lead into Wentbridge...but alas, (Google Earth) it doesn't seem to be!

Joe

27/04/13 - 18:04

That badge! I can't decide if it's on the windscreen or on the lad's shoulder. It reminds me of a sticker I seem to remember appeared on coaches years ago - some sort of association but I can't remember which.
Now, if it was a scouting event here's a thought - and a reason for the number sticker and the lady taking an interest as perhaps a son was on one of the coaches. In 1957 the 9th World Scout Jamboree was held at Sutton Coldfield over a 12 day period in August. It was a major event as it marked the 50th anniversary of the scouting movement and Baden Powell's 100th birthday. All the events took place on adjacent sites within Sutton Park located in Sutton Coldfield. As well as the 33,000 participants from 85 countries, an additional 17,000 British Scouts were camping on other organised sites spread over a fifteen mile radius from Sutton Park and attending the daily organised events at the main campsite, giving a total attendance of 50,000 Scouts in residence, with a further 7,000 being bussed in from locations all over England for day long visits that were spread over the 12 days of the Jamboree.

Phil Blinkhorn

28/04/13 - 08:24

Yes Chris H, I can actually remember my joyous trips out in these magnificent little vehicles - simple,tough and totally honest are the terms which remain for. The differences between the WTB and the OWB/OB are barely discernible to passengers, and not obvious to drivers either other than the likes of me - always eager for detail. The main basic difference in design is that the WTB was derived from a goods chassis whereas the OWB/OB were purpose designed and brilliantly too. Several very slight increases in engine size occurred during the production run, but even the most powerful of these glorious plucky and fearless little vehicles was a little under 3 litres - just incredible. One major difference concerned the braking systems. The WTB had pure mechanical brakes which were adequate but, compared with any hydraulic system, hard work under busy conditions. The OWB/OB had Lockheed hydraulic brakes which were obviously more appropriate in postwar times.
Apologies to the Royal Commer vehicle for hi-jacking the topic.

Chris Youhill

28/04/13 - 11:04

The following information is courtesy of John Kaye.
HWR 750 was new in November 1949 to Adey, Adwick-on-Dearne.
It passed to Mills and Goodacre, t/a Royal Coaches, of 26 Princess Road, Mexborough in August 1955 and then to White (M.S.), Silkstone in April 1960.
So there is every chance that it was photographed on its way to the large scouting event, mentioned earlier.

Eric Bawden

28/04/13 - 15:10

Thanks to all, especially Eric & John Kaye, for providing the nitty-gritty. Some interesting debate along the way too.

Les Dickinson

29/04/13 - 08:09

Perhaps it was Mr Adey who founded 'Royal Coaches' but sold the entire operation to Messrs Mills & Goodacre - this would seem quite likely given the closeness of the localities. It would also explain Andrew's recollection that Royal Coaches had been from Adwick-on-Dearne. It may even have been that the operation remained at Adwick, the Mexborough address being administrative.

David Call

29/04/13 - 08:10

Thx, Chris Y, for your nostalgic review of the WTB/OB/OWB - very interesting and barely a diversion at all!
I really had to look up Adwick-upon-Dearne. a place I'd never heard of, seemingly near Doncaster.
The full photo is really quite evocative.

Chris Hebbron

29/04/13 - 15:59

Not to be confused, Chris H, with Adwick le Street, erstwhile home of Kildare and Beehive at various times. That is (just about) in the Don Valley, whereas this Adwick is in the Dearne Valley, and so not near Doncaster but Mexborough! If you do a Google Earth tour round there the older buildings do look similar to this photo.... but where?

Joe

30/04/13 - 05:48

I wasn't aware of the earlier Adwick based operator having only known the operation when Les Mills was the owner at which time the operating centre was still Adwick on Dearne.
The 'depot' was a collection of three Nissan hut type structures with a rough hard standing area in front. The bus in this article would have fitted ok but the late Duple bodied Bedfords were a very tight squeeze.
The buildings were being refurbished(!) with a newer style frontage quite recently.
Livery was, if the grey cells are still accurate after that time, a darkish cream base with maroon side panel and dark blue or black roof.

Andrew Charles

30/04/13 - 08:50

Andrew's description of the ROYAL livery reminds me of a priceless memory, which I hold very dear, from 1953. It was almost the first morning in service for the Samuel Ledgard Otley depot London Transport Daimler - HGF 913 ex Sutton Depot D 236 - which had been overhauled in a delightful process. London Transport red and associated advertisements had been superseded by a smart new version of SL's traditional livery. Well, the bus left the Ilkley terminus at 07:40 for Leeds and, whilst in motion one of the regular passengers - a loud mouthed pain to his fellows every morning - leapt on board and tottered into the almost full lower saloon. The interior had been painted experimentally in a new scheme, very tidy but regrettably never repeated, of white ceiling and down to the London "half way" division on the windows, rich burgundy from there for the remainder of the woodwork, and dignified Ledgard blue for the lower panels. Gradually taking in his surroundings the late arrival eventually bellowed "Huh, what's this then - red white an' blue for the ruddy Coronation ??" Weary sighs all round and a 55 minute journey yet to come. I just couldn't resist the connection between the Royal Coaches livery and that Royal occasion a frightening sixty years ago.

Chris Youhill

30/04/13 - 13:21

Bless you Chris Y. There can't be many threads that you can't weave into Samuel Ledgard memories. As a long standing Ledgard user and fan - KEEP IT UP !

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