Old Llanelli Bus
Old Llanelli Bus
We at Llanelli Community Heritage have received the above photograph of a bus in Llanelli taken circa 1920s. Given the limited information in the scene, are you able to enlighten us on some of the details of the bus in the background?
Many thanks and good luck.
Lyn John
Vice Chair
22/11/12 - 10:10
Re the advertisement on the right for ‘The White Sister’ an American film starring Lillian Gish it was released in 1923 that may help a little.
Trevor Knowles
22/11/12 - 12:28
I'll start things off with, a bus body (20 seats) on a Guy J lorry chassis.
Spencer
22/11/12 - 15:09
It is possible this is a Bristol 4 ton chassis.
Chris Hough
22/11/12 - 15:38
My guess is it could be something like a Halley. They were built by Halley Industrial Motors Ltd. of Glasgow between 1907 and 1927 when the company went into liquidation. It was resurrected as Halley Motors Ltd but finally went under in 1936.
Now an almost forgotten name, at the start of the First World War Halley were regarded as one of the four biggest petrol engined commercial vehicle manufacturers in the UK.
If anyone has records of small bus operators and their vehicles in the Llanelli district around 1924ish (a long shot, I know) we might be able to move forward from there.
Eric Bawden
22/11/12 - 15:41
There are ribs on top of the radiator which may help.
Peter
23/11/12 - 08:13
The ribs would suggest Daimler, but I'm far from convinced. I think there were quite a few manufacturers that had these ribs cast into the header tanks of their radiators at this time.
Does Lyn have access to any records eg, minutes from local council bus licensing applications, who would be responsible for granting such licences within their area at this period.
If this was to throw up the name of a few operators the experts amongst us may well be able to identify the bus.
Eric Bawden
23/11/12 - 10:08
Could be a Halley. I do not think it is a Bristol or Daimler. Not really convinced it is a Guy either.
If only the Lady Conductress was not standing in front of the registration number and radiator!
My suspicions lead towards Vulcan.
It could be an independent operator, or it could be a bus belonging to the Llanelli and District Tramways, a Balfour Beatty group tramway operator, who probably, like many such systems, operated tramway feeder services with early motorbuses.
John Whitaker
24/11/12 - 06:55
I've looked at several pictures of the radiator shape of the Halley, and I personally doubt that this bus is of that make. Another Scottish contender might be Caledon, whose radiator shape did have ribs/fluting on the top tank, but I remain unsure on this as well.
Roger Cox
24/11/12 - 12:49
If you use the Llanelli Community Heritage link in the original message it leads to a clearer image of this photo which might help somebody identify it.
Eric Bawden
26/11/12 - 16:25
Could well be a Caledon Eric. Close perusal of my Ledgard literature seems to confirm the ribbed radiator feature on Ledgards early Caledons.
I do not wish to be ultra specific though, as I am not certain, and the radiator views are not of the best quality, and not close up shots.
John Whitaker
27/11/12 - 07:18
I've some doubts as to whether it's a Caledon, John W.
True, it's only based on one photo on the web, but the ribbing is closer and only on down the front of the radiator. Of course, the rad design might have changed in the few intervening years. SEE: www.theglasgowstory.com/
Chris Hebbron
27/11/12 - 07:19
Don't think it's a Caledon. Having looked at a few pictures of Caledons, admittedly on solid tyres, so may have been late teens/early twenties the radiator header tank is more steeply inclined towards the filler cap than the one in this photo.
My money is still on Halley, but further research is needed.
If you click on the Llanelli Heritage Community link there is also an interesting piece on Llanelli's last trolleybuses.
Eric Bawden
27/11/12 - 09:12
You could well be right, Eric and Chris. This sort of "detective work" really is quite fascinating and mutually informative!
Not sure about Halley though, as close perusal of photographs show quite a bulbous radiator style.
I am beaten with this one!
John Whitaker
28/11/12 - 07:34
Another possibility is an American manufacturer called Selden (Selden Motor Vehicle Co of Rochester, New York).
During the first world war they built something like 3,700 of a model called the 'Liberty Truck'. As an earlier contributor placed the date of the photo as 1923 it's possible that this was a repatriated military vehicle that had been put to a new purpose?. A photo that I've come across of a 1921 Selden chassis has a very similar ribbed radiator top tank.
Andrew Charles
08/12/12 - 10:00
Thank you for all your comments. If it helps? I have now researched a list (attached) of all the bus companies that were operating various services in to the town of Llanelli from the outlying villages. The list is dated 1929.
J.M. Bacus & Co.
S.W.T.Co.
Evan Morris.
S. Eynon & Son.
J. Hughes & Son.
J. Davies & Son.
H. Walters & Sons.
Gwendreath Transport & Co.
Treharne Brothers.
John Jones.
Pontyberem Transport Company.
West Wales Motors Ltd.
G.W.R. Co.
W. J. Evans.
David Lewis.
Rees & Williams.
John Bros.
D. Bassett & Son.
R. A. Davies.
H. G. Sage.
G. Gimblett
New Dock Bus Service Co.
Thanks again
Lyn John
12/02/13 - 07:37
I am about to finish an article on the photograph of the old 1925 bus that I sent you for our website. I have been able to date the photograph as being as March/April 1925.
Thank you very much for your help and if its ok? I will include a link to your website in the article.
Lyn John
21/09/14 - 07:35
With regard to the photograph on the Llanelli Community Heritage Group's page 'Old Bus Photos' by Lyn John dated 22/11/12, more information and an additional photograph of this bus can be found in my latest book entitled 'Images of Old Llanelli & District' (ISBN 978-0-9574045-2-6) due to be released in September 2014.
Vernon Morgan
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