London Transport ST798 - GO 5164 (RN17787) - Anti-submarine Simulator

Jas Stirling once told me, years ago, that there was thought to be an ex-London ST walled-up somewhere in Jerusalem, having been a (military?) canteen and kept for old times' sake from the breakers there. Did anyone else ever hear that odd rumour? Jas said that he thought a group was attempting to locate and arrange its return to Blighty.

Victor Brumby

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01/12/11 - 08:49

As long as it's not the Wailing Wall, Victor. There's be more than just wailing if they tried to tear that wall down! But it would be wonderful if such a vehicle had been walled up and found!

Chris Hebbron

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03/12/11 - 07:01

London Transport ST798 was recorded (in 1995) at the Clanestine Immigration & Naval Museum, Haifa, Israel - it is pictured in "London Transport in Exile - 1950s & 60s" by Kevin McCormack (same format as the 'heyday of / glory years' books)
According to this book, the bus passed into the hands of the British Navy in 1943, and it was used as a mobile classroom for submarine detection training, and was sold as part of a package deal with some submarines to Israel in 1958.
Could this be the bus referred to?

Jon

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03/12/11 - 17:12

So, Jon - there WAS some substance in the ST rumour. Thanks for that substantial addition to the facts of this case. I've got a couple of Jewish pals in High Wycombe - I'll ask them to get it back for us, shall I??

Victor Brumby

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15/08/13 - 14:02

I came across this thread again a couple of days ago. As a result of Jon/Victor's comments about ST798, I emailed the Clandestine Immigration & Navy Museum and received this reply today:

"Dear Chris
As you know, some dozens of buses were converted while WW2, to be ASW simulators. Our bus is one of them. It is an exhibit in our navy museum and the name is: An ASW simulator. The equipment in side is very unique and we keep it carefully."

I asked for a photo, but one wasn't forthcoming.

Chris Hebbron

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16/08/13 - 06:29

Chris- I thought your post was a windup. It's not, is it?

Joe

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16/08/13 - 14:40

No, Joe, it's not a wind-up.
I was also invited, in the email. to see it at the Haifa museum, but will pass on that! It might have been because of my quasi-spelt surname to the Jewish 'Hebron'! It wouldn't be the first time I've been asked if I'm of the Jewish persuasion! I wonder how much the vehicle has been altered from original. It may be unrecognisable, of course, but I hope not.

Chris Hebbron

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17/06/15 - 06:48

Re ST798, about 15 years ago when I was a volunteer at the (then) Cobham Bus Museum I was shown a photo of this ST in Israel. It seemed to be intact except that the "peak" at the front of the upper deck had been removed. As far as I can recall it was painted grey. Hope this is of interest, maybe someone has seen it more recently - it would be interesting to see a more recent photo. I presume it still exists as, from previous posts, the museum authorities seem to be guarding it jealously.

Brian

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24/06/15 - 08:14

With a very nautical backdrop, here's a photo of RN 17787, erstwhile ST 337, 777 or 798, all three of which were transferred from London Transport to the Royal Navy in 1943. As Brian says, the bus lacks its upstairs peak and is painted grey. It has acquired a very neatly-executed cab door and a white-walled tyre-finish, the latter, no doubt, ordered to be done by some 'bull-happy' petty officer to a hard-done-by able seaman!

Chris Hebbron

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14/01/16 - 06:06

Chris Hebbron speculated that the identity of the ST in his excellent picture could be one of ST 337, 777 or 798.
I would suggest that it's unlikely to be the latter, as Kevin McCormack's splendid book London Transport in Exile 1950s and 1960s has a picture of ST 798 at Haifa, Israel in 1995, reproduced above. This shows it with panelling over the front top deck from the dome right down to the top of the cab window. The ST in Chris's picture shows a more original front end, but with a sawn-off peak, hence no dome.
That would mean that Chris's bus was either ST 337 or 777. I regret that I don't have any current knowledge of the whereabouts of any of these vehicles, as this is based purely on armchair research.
So, there could still be one of them walled up in Jerusalem !

Petras409

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30/01/18 - 06:49

Searching for London General/Transport Bus ST 795, I came across your posts relating to ST 798 in Israel. According to the following site, it was ST 795 that ended up at the Clandestine Immigration and Naval Museum Haifa, Israel until the 1970's: https://purenostalgia.org.uk/
The reason I am interested is that one of my cousins was the driver of ST 795, as evidenced by a photo I have, taken around 1930/31, with the bus in General livery on Route 2 in South London.
Do you have any further info on this particular bus?

John Tomalin

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30/01/18 - 10:58

Thx, Petras409 for you post, which somehow escaped me until JohnT's post today. You may be right, but remember that my photo shows the vehicle in RN condition, whereas the other one may show it after modification by the Israelis.
Thx, John T, for your post. This muddies the water even more. The website Ian's Bus Stop, shows the relevant history for all four buses.
ST337 - Sold to RN in 6/43. No more known.
ST777 - Sold to RN in 12/42. No more known.
ST795 - Withdrawn from service in 1/49. Sold to Daniels of Rainham, Essex (Scrap Merchants) in 1/50.
ST798 - Sold to RN in 6/43. Used for Sub Detection training up to 1958. Sold to Israel, along with some submarines in 1958. To museum, Haifa, in 1995.
ST798 still seems the most likely survivor, with 795 in service postwar. The little copper plates, which all London Transport buses had on their dumb irons at the time, would show and establish which bus is actually preserved, if the plate's survived in situ, which many did, as they were so insignificant! Who's volunteering to go to Haifa to find out?.

Chris Hebbron

 

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