As a youngster fascinated by the various comings and goings of vehicles around and about, I spotted on the lower nearsides of buses and coaches legal lettering giving details of their ownership. Usually headed by the name of the operator (eg: West Yorkshire Road Car Co Ltd), together with its headquarters (eg: East Parade, Harrogate), the name of the General Manager was also displayed (eg: H N Tuff, or later J W Lawrence). However the practice of including the GM's name seemed to just disappear some years ago. Does anyone know when and why this happened? I wondered perhaps if it tied in with local government reorganisation in 1974, with changes to council-owned fleets, PTEs coming to the fore, and NBC regionalising its operations.
Brendan Smith
25/01/15 - 06:46
The General Manager's name may never have been a legal requirement, but in those days it was practice for all correspondence to be in the General Manager's name so it made sense to put that on the buses. This is only a theory!
David Beilby
25/01/15 - 09:33
From many pre-war photos I've seen, it wasn't uncommon for the legal owners' details to be put on the offside of vehicles, either. No idea if this was a legal requirement at the time.
Chris Hebbron
25/01/15 - 16:21
Scout Motor Services, independent and owned by the Watkinson family at the time, showed the name of the Company Secretary (J C Watkinson I seem to recall it was)
Ribble and Standerwick vehicles showed the name of the person however, on Ribble vehicles that person was titled General Manager but on Standerwick vehicles the same person was titled Managing Director.
David Slater
Monday 26th
As Private Fraser used to say in Dad's Army it could just be "Vanity, sheeerr vanity"
Paragon
26/01/15 - 08:19
It's fair to say, though, that those were the days when folk didn't hide behind anonymity. Today, you'd be lucky to even get beyond the first call centre person you spoke to, typified by the story of the caller who asked to be put through to a certain bank branch. Told that any query could be answered by call centre staff, she queried whether she'd left her gloves on the counter earlier that day! She was put through to the branch! But I digress!
Chris Hebbron
26/01/15 - 14:58
Presumably the "legal" lettering is still a "legal" requirement, but I seem to have seen several vehicles recently without any form of this lettering whatsoever (and usually no fleetname either) and usually in anonymous dealer stock white livery.
Michael Keeley
27/01/15 - 06:39
I'm pretty certain that it is still a legal requirement to show the operators name even if you sometimes see vehicles that don't. It is less common these days to see a persons name in the lettering although the vehicles of the long established J.W. Lodge & Sons Limited of High Easter carry the legend "R.C.Lodge Secretary". Until the sale to Go-Ahead, the legal lettering of the buses of Hedingham & District showed "D.R. MacGregor MBE BSc(Econ)" which I don't think was vanity, more an indication of where the buck stopped.
Nigel Turner
27/01/15 - 13:56
Was this not and still is a legal requirement.
I also thought alongside the registered address and named person whether owner in case of private hire operator or manager or named in person in case of municipal authority was the weight of vehicle and seating capacity of the coach also a legal requirement.
Alan Coulson
28/01/15 - 06:37
It is indeed still a legal requirement and I believe the legislation also stipulates that the lettering must be no less than 1inch (or 25mm) high and must be permanently applied, not a stuck on label or card in a window!
Chris Barker
28/01/15 - 06:38
The requirement to show the legal lettering is outlined somewhere in the Construction and Use Regulations I seem to recall - but try as I might I haven't found which one.
I took a photo a few years ago of a paper sign containing the legal lettering displayed in a bus hired by Stephensons of Essex at the time they hurriedly took on the operations of the failed Burtons of Haverhill business. They needed a number of extra buses to keep the services going and hired all manner of vehicles from various sources.
The photograph may be seen at www.ipernity.com/doc/davidslater-spoddendale/ (There is an irony though in that whoever typed the sign managed to misspell the company name!)
During my search to find the relevant C&U Regs Google returned the names of some traders that manufacture and sell sheets made to order in the following format:
YOUR NAME
T/A...... ('trading as' - optional)
ADDRESS LINE 1
ADDRESS LINE 2
TOWN
COUNTY
POSTCODE
(The sheet can also contain all the other required lettering for application on a vehicle like 'seating capacity', 'unladen weight', 'screen wash', etc etc.
Google 'Legal Lettering for PCV Operators' if you like looking at that sort of thing)
David Slater
29/01/15 - 07:11
The relevant legislation is the Public Service Vehicles (Conditions of Fitness, Equipment, Use and Certification) Regulations 1981 (S.I. No. 257). It has had numerous amendments over the years but essentially still requires at section 45:
"Markings
45. No vehicle in respect of which, by virtue of section 17(1) of the Transport Act 1980, a certificate of initial fitness, or a certificate under section 130 of the Road Traffic Act 1960, or a certificate under section 47 of the Road Traffic Act 1972 is required shall be used on a road unless the vehicle is marked with clearly legible characters-
(i) not less than 25 millimetres tall,
(ii) in a conspicuous position on the nearside of the vehicle,
(iii) in colours which contrast with their background, and
(iv) indicating the name of the owner (as defined in section 44(1) of the said Act of 1980 in relation to a vehicle to which that definition applies) of the vehicle and the owner's principal place of business."
Mike Grant
29/01/15 - 13:43
Chris Y- surely the oddest legal lettering was Exors of Samuel (or Saml?) Ledgard or was it ....Ledgard (Exors of)? Before you explained all, I always had a picture of suited men and ladies sitting round a table with a solicitor and paper bundles in pink ribbon, deciding which shift to put you on...
Joe
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