Gas Powered United Buses

I very much want to find confirmation of a wartime memory of mine which is being disputed.
I can remember travelling on United buses along Scalby Road Scarborough from Scalby and into town.
The dispute concerns the accuracy of my memory of the trailer towed behind the bus that looked for all the world like an old fashioned metal dustbin and was the fuel source to the bus engine.
I would so appreciate a picture if anyone knows of one and confirmation that United buses did indeed use this type of fuel during the war, even if it was only for a very short time.
I am 82 now and would be 8++ in the 1940's.

Val Barron

30/12/14 - 06:16

It sounds as though the bus was pulling a producer gas trailer, they were quite common in WW2. Did the trailer look something like this?

David Call

30/12/14 - 09:49

Val, we do have a piece elsewhere on OBP about these trailers that discusses them in detail. See 'Gas Buses in Hull'. Which can be seen at this link

Roger Cox

01/01/15 - 09:16

So pleased to get your replies I knew I could remember them. I looked at the comments and the link sent in by David Call and that is exactly what I remember the trailer to look like. Thank you all so much for your help. Just would like proof in picture form that the "United of Scarborough" did actually run them (as shown) to prove my point.
Comforting to know my memory is still active !!

Val Barron

02/01/15 - 06:56

I think you'd be lucky to find a photo of a 'United' bus with such a trailer. Remember that getting film and developing such films was far from easy in the war and photography discouraged. However, Val, you could try the County Archives for help.
In general, here a Pathe News clip with London Transport Country Area ST1328 (GF440) fitted with one and several other lorries, including a couple of Dennis Aces, some with trailers and others with onboard systems. It's worth mentioning that they could only be fitted to petrol-engine'd vehicles and performance dropped off considerably when running on coal-gas. It also clogged up the engines badly. The bus above, for example, only had it fitted for some three months and then needed an overhauled engine! SEE: http://www.britishpathe.com/video/bus-with-gas-trailer

Chris Hebbron

06/01/15 - 05:28

Further to the use of Gas Producer buses by United Automobile Services in Scarborough, I have a record that in July 1944 Scarborough Depot had a Leyland TD1 (Fleet No.LD52) which was one of only 3 Double Deckers converted to gas producer power, the others being LD29, and LD30.

I also have a picture on file (not my copyright) of gas buses at Northallerton Depot, which had the largest fleet of them in the United empire.
Contemporary reports suggest that Northallerton was chosen because of its relatively flat geographical operating terrain. The Government announced in September 1944 the ending of the scheme, and United had converted them all back to normal by early 1945.

Stephen Howarth

06/01/15 - 05:28

Memory can play tricks. I remember standing with Mum at the Broad Street stop in Reading where we caught the Merry Maidens-bound bus, when a Leyland TD1 made its way slowly eastward past us with a gas-trailer in tow. Since that distant day I had always "seen" the bus in Corporation maroon, until last night when I rang John Whitehead, co-author of "War and Austerity" (ISBN 978 099 287 3400), a detailed and generously illustrated account of Reading Corportion Transport during the war.
(That's a from-the-heart plug, by the way, with no financial interest!)
"John, I can't find any pictures in the book of Corpo buses pulling producer gas trailers".
"You won't," says John. "The Corpo never had any. You're thinking of Thames Valley: look at the back cover of Paul Lacey's Thames Valley 1931-45 book."
...and there it was: right vehicle in the right place, but not the colour or operator I thought I remembered.
Apparently by August 1944 the Valley had saved 3,434 gallons of precious petrol over the 19,086 miles aggregated by the 16 converted buses, single and double deck, which points to an average of 5.558 mpg running on petrol. I wonder what mileage they did per hundredweight of coke, or whatever they burnt;
and what the cost was of overhauling gas-damaged engines to run on petrol again---though I imagine plenty were scrapped and replaced with diesels.
ISBN of Paul's book is 095 107 3974, and here again a sincere and unpaid recommendation.

Ian T

07/01/15 - 06:30

Well done, Stephen H for raking out that United photo. Single-deckers and flat terrain was the best that could be achieved when operating with gas trailers.
Ian T - The trailers would have operated with coal, which would release coal-gas (or town gas, as it was also called) after which it was coke. I recall reading that these trailers could operate all day on just one initial top-up of coal. As for the engines, it was very much a case of 'make do and mend' as it was highly unlikely any spare engines would be around. To get a good feel for the travails of operating a bus company during the war, see this link.

Chris Hebbron

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