Further to recent posts re Doncaster Six Wheelers. these buses in Bridlington, with Williamson etc, I have recently seen a photo of one of the 1938 batch (I think) running for Yorkshire Traction. Poor photo, so cannot be exact, but does anyone know how this happened?
Secondly, 1920s Guy designations. Can anyone clear up the differences between types B, BA, BB, etc. as well as the FCX, FBKK types, and where J comes in? I think I may know, but am not sure at all.
John Whitaker
28/02/11
On the subsidiary question about Guys, I have been able to distil the following from "80 Years of Guy Cars, Trucks and Buses" by Robin Hannay and Stuart Broach, if I have understood it correctly. The original J and B series were general purpose chassis, the Js being the smaller of the two. In 1924, drop-frame versions of the B series were introduced especially for bus use. These (like the straight-framed versions) were designated BA, B and BB in increasing order of wheelbase length. The BK was a BB with a six-cylinder engine, and the (later) BT was the trolleybus chassis. In due course an X suffix denoted a 6-wheeler, and an F prefix a forward-control version. The C series - C, FC, CX and FCX - was introduced in 1927. Logical eh?
Peter Williamson
28/02/11
In response to your correspondent's question, YTC did - briefly - operate a Leyland Titanic TT5, fleet number 127, registration number DT 9642 the bus originated with Doncaster Corporation Transport in 1938 as their number 75.The bus came to Tracky with the acquisition of the business of W & A Cawthorne, it entered service with YTC in April 1952 but was withdrawn the following year. Unless anyone knows otherwise I reckon that this is the only 6 wheeler operated by Tracky until NBC days. The other Cawthorne acquisition was equally unusual but on the face of it rather more successful. This was KMA 570, fleet number 128, a Foden PVD6 with Willowbrook bodywork. Dating from 1948 this lasted with YTC from April 1952 until its withdrawal in 1959.
Andrew Charles
28/02/11
Ex-Doncaster 1938 Titanic DT 9642 was bought by Cawthornes in 1949 and used on the Woolley Colliery service. Service and vehicle were bought by Tracky in March 1952 whereupon the vehicle was numbered 127 and painted in fleet livery. Despite this, it did not last beyond the end of 1952.
David Oldfield
28/02/11
Thank you David B, that is indeed a fine picture of the Titanic during its short time in the YTC fleet - it looks in fine order and there's no sign at all of its impending sinking!! Also of course it is the vehicle prior in number to the Williamson's example DT 9643 of the same batch.
Chris Youhill
02/03/11
Thanks to Peter for clearing up my Guy query. I wonder if the C series all had 6 cyl. engines. Super picture of the "Tracky" Titanic. Thanks to all for clearing that up!
John Whitaker
02/03/11
Does somebody know what bodywork these Doncaster six-wheelers had and the period of production of the Titanic? I know that London Transport took over one Titanic from an independent and that would have been in 1933. It, too, didn't last very long with LPTB.
Chris Hebbron
02/03/11
The Leyland Titanic - a triumph of marketing! An excellent photograph at Barnsley. Bob Telfer's book on YTC (Ian Allan) has another. Six-wheeled motor buses were never popular during that period. I believe there is preserved Leicester example, but can't remember what type.
Geoff Kerr
03/03/11
The Doncaster Titanics and AEC Renowns were all bodied by Roe, in answer to Chris`s query.The Leicester 6 wheelers were Renowns, bodied by MCW and NCME, and they lasted much longer. Not sure, but I think they were of the maximum length in Leicester (30 ft.) whereas the Doncasters were somewhere near 28ft.As far as I know, both AEC and Leyland offered the 6 wheel versions of their Titan and Regent ranges right up to the outbreak of war, but there were only a few takers, Leicester , and Doncaster`s 1938 batch of Titanics being most probably the last.Anyone know different?
John Whitaker
03/03/11
The Titanic came on stream in 1927, the same as the Titan. Sheffield had two lots - the first with Leyland bodies, the second with Cravens. They were called Dragonflies - because they would dragon up the hill and then fly down it on the other side! The final six Titanics were delivered to Doncaster in 1938, registered DT9641-3/756-8. They were TT5c/Roe.
David Oldfield
03/03/11
The Doncaster Titanics had the familiar Roe bodywork. The Titanic was in production as follows :-
TT1 1927 - 1931 - TT2 1932 - 1934 - TT3 1935 - 1937 - TT4 1935 - 1937 also TT5 1937 - 1939 - TT6 1937 - 1939 also although none actually built. Torque converter was available on all marques and was denoted by "c" after the number.
Chris Youhill
03/03/11
All Doncaster's Titanics had Roe bodies, according to Peter Gould's fleet history. The preserved Leicester 6-wheeler is an AEC Renown. I can't answer about the engines in the Guy C series as the Guy book is not entirely clear.
Peter Williamson
04/03/11
Thx for the answers to my question. There certainly seemed a hiatus in the AEC Renown orders in the mid thirties, with a sudden influx of orders just before the war. Although not the last, between September 1937 and February 1938, London Transport took delivery of its 24 LTC class for private hire work. They had shortened chassis, petrol engines from other buses being converted to diesel power and were only 27 feet long. They were luxurious and some even had radios!
Chris Hebbron
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